Trump's Russian Collusion

[old salt]

Another IF TRUE smoke bomb. Diversion & cover to distract from IG & Durham investigations.

De ja Vu. All over again.

So Republicans and their media toadies are back with the "everyone has to tell the truth except Trump and the Republicans" game.

F off is my response to this Federalist piece.

F. Off.

.. ...& what's your response to the video bombshell about Nunes ?

[a fan]

.. ...& what's your response to the video bombshell about Nunes ?

Don't know what you're referring to here...

[cradleandshoot]

MD - I was attending to a matter in Destin, FL at Jerry Jones house - yep I run in tight circles - weather was a tad chilly - where is your place? Still have never run into a Dartmouth or Hopkins grad - you all must go one to be doctors and lawyers excluding Bloomberg - that is interesting he is running for Prez. BTW reality smacks you in the face daily, it is how you deal with reality that matters. I grew up poor unlike many out here so I can get the reality - maybe you can as well over time - unimpressed with the college or degree it is what you do with it that matters.

RedfromMI - my grandfather was mayor of TC - my point was Russia was a point - many bad actors messing in our elections including Ukraine - step up as it ain't just the Russians messing- sorry I was down south for almost a week .

72 - had Hopkins had a good lax team, my son would have run into them in the NCAA's - NOPE. Homewood must have been built and created in 1920's? The turf must be original, I remember playing on that in the 1980's - be relevant again and maybe I would meet a Hopkins grad finally

afan, not a Fox fan- WSJ.

moving on to censuring - another bust. Schiff's eyes will really be bulging

We're over near Stuart. Harbour Ridge.
A lot of midwesterners.

Of course the college/degree matters far less than "what you do with it that matters". No argument there. Bugs me too when some see that as more than just one, rather early, indicator of 'smarts' and 'hard academic work'. Just not sure why someone earning a degree from a highly selective school, much less graduating with honors while playing a sport, would be seen as a negative...but it apparently it is for some folks. Seems strange to me, but then again, a lot of stuff seems strange to me these days.

And no, Ukraine didn't get involved in our election in '16. That's Trump/Fox/OANN/RT BS.
Some bad actors trying to get involved in '20, yes, but that's the Guiliani thread.

And no, Ukraine didn't get involved in our election in '16

You gots proof of that hombre? I am guessing that is your opinion. I can say that because since nobody in the US government ever investigated Ukraine meddling in 2016... we don't really know how many nations may have been diddle fritzing in our elections.

What we do know is that the conspiracy theory being peddled by Trump and the others is indeed total BS, emanating from Putin. According to our entire IC, and as validated by the heads of those agencies, all Trump appointees, and as further validated by the GOP Senate Intelligence Committee. Yes, they actually did investigate who was meddling and how and who wasn't.

Not sure anything can be locked down more than that.

This conspiracy theory is being described by the professionals as entirely Russian propaganda...but you want to buy Russian propaganda, go for it.

One thing for certain in this whole sordid affair is that there are no shortage of conspiracy theories. It is akin to the grassy knoll on steroids. There are a ton of possibilities to bounce back and forth. There just is not much proof to back any of them up. I wonder how our intell people could realistically put together anything. That would require a mole inside the Putin camp. Thatwould be a mole that would have a very short life span when discovered.

cradle,
I don't know whether there's human intelligence involved ("a mole"), or how much such, but I do know that computers leave tracks and such have been referenced, albeit obliquely, in various reports. These are not only understood by the IC but also have been explained to the Senate Intelligence Committee. Apparently, the evidence is overwhelming.

And it is 100% contrary to the BS about Ukraine (Crowdstrike) etc being peddled by Putin and Trump as an alternate theory.

One of the real shames of the Trump era has been this dumbing down of our public's capacity to recognize when those with expertise and experience actually do 'know' something with a very high degree of certainty and specificity, as is this case.

There's always been a 'dumb' factor in America, those highly suggestible folks willing to believe cockamamy conspiracy theories, but this has grown quite substantially, led by the 'useful idiot' in the White House.

Now he wants you to believe that he didn't send Rudy to Ukraine, not sure what he was doing there, has other clients other than him, Rudy was personally offended during the campaign...do you believe this new nonsense that Rudy wasn't actually representing him in Ukraine?

I do not doubt our intell people know a lot about what went on. I am just cynical enough to believe that Putin is well aware of evidence that would be left on a computer in any of these shenanigans. This becomes a cat and mouse game as to what intell is believable and what you are being spoon fed. I have no idea what the truth is. I also believe that Putins folks are smart enough to send our folks on a bunch of high tech wild goose chases. I am not much of a crook but I understand rule #1 is do not use a computer when doing your dirty dealings. At least if you do not want anybody finding what it is your up to.

jiminy cradle, that's some mighty big ostrich behavior there. You do understand that the hacking was done by computer and the bots and trolls were done by computer? This really ain't rocket science to understand that computers were used. And that such leaves tracks?

Now you imagine that Putin had someone leave those tracks leading back to Russian military intelligence on purpose???

Wow, the desperation to believe anything, I mean anything, other than that our IC nailed it down as the Russians...and very specific Russians at that.

youth appears to be right with you in such desperation.

And in your own desperation you constantly tell all of us about your Republican heritage. I know enough Republicans to understand that whatever you claim to be... you are not a Republican. The Republicans that I know would have given you the bums rush out the door, kicked you in your arse to the curb and informed you don't try and come back in. The Republican party is fouled up enough as it is, they don't need the blue blood Rockefellers such as yourself sending them farther into the abyss. One thing I can give your ilk of the republican party mucho credit for MD. Your type of snowflake Republican does one thing remarkably well.. you all are experts in the art of giving concession speeches when you get your asses handed to you on election night.

Mittens was a really swell guy that the Democrats eviscerated and turned into a snowflake Republican loser. I'm guessing Mittens was your perfect candidate. A candy ass light weight who would not say sheepdip about his Democrat opponents if his mouth was full of it. YOU MR MD are everything that is wrong with the Republican party. Trump may be an obnoxious weed and he ain't even a Republican. He is the only person posing as a republican with the balls to actually criticize Democrats and their supporters in the MSM. I am certain MD that you are more than comfy cozy listening to all those concession speeches. You represent the gutless, spineless and testicle less members of your party. Your pandering to all the FLP folks on this forum just to gain their approval tells me all I need to know about your intestinal fortitude. Carry on with your mission sir. Go sip some bubbly and snarf down some caviar and discuss all of the important issues of the day. If you are a Republican... they freaking deserve you 100%

[admin]

You’re so triggered. You’re a socialist. You hate America and it’s people. You saying you’d vote for a known commie socialist who killed tons of innocent people shows how left Democrats have become. JFK would be a staunch Republican and Trump supporter today. Embarrassing even for someone as clueless and hateful as you.

Tweet! Bandito - 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty - Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

The post isn't so bad but that it's in response to a post that wasn't a personal attack makes it's pretty ridiculous. People, discuss, topics, not post-ers.

Tweeet! Play on...

[seacoaster]

You’re so triggered. You’re a socialist. You hate America and it’s people. You saying you’d vote for a known commie socialist who killed tons of innocent people shows how left Democrats have become. JFK would be a staunch Republican and Trump supporter today. Embarrassing even for someone as clueless and hateful as you.

Tweet! Bandito - 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty - Unsportsmanlike Conduct.

The post isn't so bad but that it's in response to a post that wasn't a personal attack makes it's pretty ridiculous. People, discuss, topics, not post-ers.

Tweeet! Play on...

Does the penalty account for the misuse of “it’s”? Maybe add some time?

[njbill]

NYT reports the IG report will say there is no evidence the FBI sought to place undercover agents or informants inside the Trump campaign. Oh well, another conspiracy theory debunked. How many are left?

https://apple.news/AmAKH1kQ3RkG-t6Pm-4t3lw

[calourie]

A quote from I think the Trumpster: "Giuliani gets thrown under the bus when I say he gets thrown under the bus. And why should I throw him under the bus when he wasn't working for me anyway. And if he was working for me, SO effin What. I'm the next best thing to Jesus Christ, maybe even better if you ask me, so take your weenie Constitution and shove it."

[MDlaxfan76]

MD - I was attending to a matter in Destin, FL at Jerry Jones house - yep I run in tight circles - weather was a tad chilly - where is your place? Still have never run into a Dartmouth or Hopkins grad - you all must go one to be doctors and lawyers excluding Bloomberg - that is interesting he is running for Prez. BTW reality smacks you in the face daily, it is how you deal with reality that matters. I grew up poor unlike many out here so I can get the reality - maybe you can as well over time - unimpressed with the college or degree it is what you do with it that matters.

RedfromMI - my grandfather was mayor of TC - my point was Russia was a point - many bad actors messing in our elections including Ukraine - step up as it ain't just the Russians messing- sorry I was down south for almost a week .

72 - had Hopkins had a good lax team, my son would have run into them in the NCAA's - NOPE. Homewood must have been built and created in 1920's? The turf must be original, I remember playing on that in the 1980's - be relevant again and maybe I would meet a Hopkins grad finally

afan, not a Fox fan- WSJ.

moving on to censuring - another bust. Schiff's eyes will really be bulging

We're over near Stuart. Harbour Ridge.
A lot of midwesterners.

Of course the college/degree matters far less than "what you do with it that matters". No argument there. Bugs me too when some see that as more than just one, rather early, indicator of 'smarts' and 'hard academic work'. Just not sure why someone earning a degree from a highly selective school, much less graduating with honors while playing a sport, would be seen as a negative...but it apparently it is for some folks. Seems strange to me, but then again, a lot of stuff seems strange to me these days.

And no, Ukraine didn't get involved in our election in '16. That's Trump/Fox/OANN/RT BS.
Some bad actors trying to get involved in '20, yes, but that's the Guiliani thread.

And no, Ukraine didn't get involved in our election in '16

You gots proof of that hombre? I am guessing that is your opinion. I can say that because since nobody in the US government ever investigated Ukraine meddling in 2016... we don't really know how many nations may have been diddle fritzing in our elections.

What we do know is that the conspiracy theory being peddled by Trump and the others is indeed total BS, emanating from Putin. According to our entire IC, and as validated by the heads of those agencies, all Trump appointees, and as further validated by the GOP Senate Intelligence Committee. Yes, they actually did investigate who was meddling and how and who wasn't.

Not sure anything can be locked down more than that.

This conspiracy theory is being described by the professionals as entirely Russian propaganda...but you want to buy Russian propaganda, go for it.

One thing for certain in this whole sordid affair is that there are no shortage of conspiracy theories. It is akin to the grassy knoll on steroids. There are a ton of possibilities to bounce back and forth. There just is not much proof to back any of them up. I wonder how our intell people could realistically put together anything. That would require a mole inside the Putin camp. Thatwould be a mole that would have a very short life span when discovered.

cradle,
I don't know whether there's human intelligence involved ("a mole"), or how much such, but I do know that computers leave tracks and such have been referenced, albeit obliquely, in various reports. These are not only understood by the IC but also have been explained to the Senate Intelligence Committee. Apparently, the evidence is overwhelming.

And it is 100% contrary to the BS about Ukraine (Crowdstrike) etc being peddled by Putin and Trump as an alternate theory.

One of the real shames of the Trump era has been this dumbing down of our public's capacity to recognize when those with expertise and experience actually do 'know' something with a very high degree of certainty and specificity, as is this case.

There's always been a 'dumb' factor in America, those highly suggestible folks willing to believe cockamamy conspiracy theories, but this has grown quite substantially, led by the 'useful idiot' in the White House.

Now he wants you to believe that he didn't send Rudy to Ukraine, not sure what he was doing there, has other clients other than him, Rudy was personally offended during the campaign...do you believe this new nonsense that Rudy wasn't actually representing him in Ukraine?

I do not doubt our intell people know a lot about what went on. I am just cynical enough to believe that Putin is well aware of evidence that would be left on a computer in any of these shenanigans. This becomes a cat and mouse game as to what intell is believable and what you are being spoon fed. I have no idea what the truth is. I also believe that Putins folks are smart enough to send our folks on a bunch of high tech wild goose chases. I am not much of a crook but I understand rule #1 is do not use a computer when doing your dirty dealings. At least if you do not want anybody finding what it is your up to.

jiminy cradle, that's some mighty big ostrich behavior there. You do understand that the hacking was done by computer and the bots and trolls were done by computer? This really ain't rocket science to understand that computers were used. And that such leaves tracks?

Now you imagine that Putin had someone leave those tracks leading back to Russian military intelligence on purpose???

Wow, the desperation to believe anything, I mean anything, other than that our IC nailed it down as the Russians...and very specific Russians at that.

youth appears to be right with you in such desperation.

And in your own desperation you constantly tell all of us about your Republican heritage. I know enough Republicans to understand that whatever you claim to be... you are not a Republican. The Republicans that I know would have given you the bums rush out the door, kicked you in your arse to the curb and informed you don't try and come back in. The Republican party is fouled up enough as it is, they don't need the blue blood Rockefellers such as yourself sending them farther into the abyss. One thing I can give your ilk of the republican party mucho credit for MD. Your type of snowflake Republican does one thing remarkably well.. you all are experts in the art of giving concession speeches when you get your asses handed to you on election night.

Mittens was a really swell guy that the Democrats eviscerated and turned into a snowflake Republican loser. I'm guessing Mittens was your perfect candidate. A candy ass light weight who would not say sheepdip about his Democrat opponents if his mouth was full of it. YOU MR MD are everything that is wrong with the Republican party. Trump may be an obnoxious weed and he ain't even a Republican. He is the only person posing as a republican with the balls to actually criticize Democrats and their supporters in the MSM. I am certain MD that you are more than comfy cozy listening to all those concession speeches. You represent the gutless, spineless and testicle less members of your party. Your pandering to all the FLP folks on this forum just to gain their approval tells me all I need to know about your intestinal fortitude. Carry on with your mission sir. Go sip some bubbly and snarf down some caviar and discuss all of the important issues of the day. If you are a Republican... they freaking deserve you 100%

cradle, you do seem to have quite the complex.
Was any of that diatribe remotely responsive and on point?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Nobody eats caviar any longer ... it’s sake and sushi or sashimi. If not sake, a nice neat small batch gin.

[old salt]

NYT reports the IG report will say there is no evidence the FBI sought to place undercover agents or informants inside the Trump campaign. Oh well, another conspiracy theory debunked. How many are left?

https://apple.news/AmAKH1kQ3RkG-t6Pm-4t3lw

Another hyped up strawman. Who claimed that ? They ran spies (aka informants) like Halper & Azra Turk against Page, Clovis & Papadop, trying to get them on dealing with Russia to get the missing HRC emails. Does the NYT single unnamed source mention them ?

[njbill]

Again, let’s wait and see. The report is coming out in 12 days.

Interesting comment on CNN tonight. One of the reporters suggested that perhaps this was leaked by the Trump administration, on Wednesday afternoon before Thanksgiving, to hopefully bury it.

[old salt]

Nah. This was pre-release spin by the NYT to provide a no brainer talking point for the 5 day holiday weekend.
They're establishing a "nothing to see here" narrative before the details become available.
It's obvious what they're doing.

[old salt]

.. ...& what's your response to the video bombshell about Nunes ?

Don't know what you're referring to here...

Did you watch the Nunes video TLD posted ?
What's your reaction to that ?
I posted the Federalist article in response to that video.

[Typical Lax Dad]

.. ...& what's your response to the video bombshell about Nunes ?

Don't know what you're referring to here...

Did you watch the Nunes video TLD posted ?
What's your reaction to that ?
I posted the Federalist article in response to that video.

https://www.justsecurity.org/67480/time ... n-efforts/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... eeting.amp

All I know is that Devin isn’t supporting a whistleblower which is what he was supposedly notable for....

[njbill]

Nah. This was pre-release spin by the NYT to provide a no brainer talking point for the 5 day holiday weekend.
They're establishing a "nothing to see here" narrative before the details become available.
It's obvious what they're doing.

I agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that the CNN spin isn’t accurate. But I disagree that the paper is trying to generate any type of “spin.” What I think happened here is that the Times simply filed this report as soon as they got it. No one in the media these days waits more than a nanosecond to report on something. I don’t think that is a good thing – reports on important matters should be carefully and thoroughly checked for accuracy – but it is the reality of the days we are living in.

You may think the Times doesn't like Trump, and obviously many reporters there do not, but if the report said the IG concluded the FBI planted spies in the Trump campaign, the Times would fall over themselves to be the first media outlet to report that story, notwithstanding that it is favorable to Trump.

[old salt]

But I disagree that the paper is trying to generate any type of “spin.”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... cript.html

Dean Baquet: ...We had a couple of significant missteps, ...there’s something larger at play here. This is a really hard story, newsrooms haven’t confronted one like this since the 1960s. It got trickier after [inaudible] … went from being a story about whether the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia and obstruction of justice to being a more head-on story about the president’s character. We built our newsroom to cover one story, and we did it truly well. Now we have to regroup, and shift resources and emphasis to take on a different story.

[Typical Lax Dad]

But I disagree that the paper is trying to generate any type of “spin.”

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... cript.html

Dean Baquet: ...We had a couple of significant missteps, ...there’s something larger at play here. This is a really hard story, newsrooms haven’t confronted one like this since the 1960s. It got trickier after [inaudible] … went from being a story about whether the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia and obstruction of justice to being a more head-on story about the president’s character. We built our newsroom to cover one story, and we did it truly well. Now we have to regroup, and shift resources and emphasis to take on a different story.

Didn’t anyone ask when was the last time the newsroom was built to cover “one story”? Last time I looked NYT covered more than one story.... You take his words literally but not Trump’s.

[njbill]

old salt, this very unusual staff meeting was, in part, precipitated by the kerfuffle that occurred after the Times ran the headline “Trump urges unity vs. racism.” Yes, the Times editor who ran the meeting acknowledged that some of the staffers and the paper’s readers cheer when the Times takes on Trump, but I don’t see anything in his remarks supportive of the notion that he wants stories to be “spun.”

I presume your quote from the Slate article was intended to support the proposition that the Times does engage in spin. I don’t think the Times editor was saying that. He said the paper “built our newsroom” to cover the story of whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russia and whether Trump obstructed justice, which obviously was the big story and the subject of the Mueller investigation. In essence, he was saying that they put a lot of time and effort and manpower into this particular story - to cover the story, not spin it. (Which of his words suggest to you that he was advocating “spin”? If your answer is the words you put in red, I disagree, as I am attempting to demonstrate in this post.)

He then suggested that the “story” shifted and became “a more head-on story about the president’s character.” I think the point he was making here is that the paper had to regroup when the story “shifted” and begin covering a different angle they weren’t initially “built” to cover. Putting aside that I don’t necessarily agree with him that the story shifted (I think both stories existed all along) and I don’t understand why the Times couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time, nothing in his remarks suggest he was advocating that the Times put spins on stories. Indeed, the full thrust of his remarks to his staff was largely to the contrary and supportive of the notion that the paper needs to get things right.

[old salt]

My point is not complicated. The NYT has become, by their own admission, a one story newspaper.
Trump Bad. Every day there must be a headline story that supports that meme.
That is what their readers demand & pay for.

I recommend the Showtime documentary series The Fourth Estate.
It's entertaining & now seems ironic.
It shows the extent to which the Times would go to generate their daily bombshells.
Now knowing how their story line fizzled out, it's rather pathetic.

[Trinity]

https://www.propublica.org/article/mult ... n-sondland

Gordo Sondland is also a perv? What a cabinet.

Meanwhile, Operation Free Paul Manafort seems to be unraveling and the Chalupa family prospers.

“.@MrJones_Film premieres tonight in Kyiv. We began production in Ukraine during a blizzard. Some of my best memories are from that time on set. Congratulations to everyone involved, especially @filmuagroup!” Andrea Chalupa

This Is a film set in 1933 directed by Agnieszka Holland called @MrJones_Film, about Russia's attack on Ukraine and propaganda warfare aided by Western corruption, including leading journalists.