Trump's Russian Collusion

[jhu72]

I had the luxury of not having to make a choice (I live in MD so HRC was foregone conclusion) so my vote was a protest vote.

Alternatively: "I made a choice -- a bad one. This one got past me stick-side high and it's not going to happen next time."

Am glad to read this, and I actually think there might be a whole lot of others who feel the same way. Frankly, I think Trump goes down hard the next time around. 6' and his ilk will vote for him if he sh*ts on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier cuz he's one of the losers who didn't make it, but I believe there are more who are questioning their decision last time around.
This is coming from a guy who said he didn't stand a snowball's chance in he!! of winning the first time around so what I think doesn't really mean jack...can hope though.

Agree. He still has a hold over 60-70% of the people who voted for him - the Zombies, but the rest although they won't admit it to pollsters are talking to their friends.

[Brooklyn]

Impeachment? Not gonna happen.

It happened to Clinton because speaker of the House Gingrich had something personal to hide while calling Clinton a perv who was undermining the moral fabric of society. He and television evangelist types such as Cal Thomas kept droning on about how we must adhere to strict fundamentalist teaching and conduct if we are to save the USA from corruption and decadence. That if we didn't the USA would suffer the same unhappy fate as did Sodom and Gomorrah. It will also be recalled that Gingrich's successor Dennis Pervert ... oops, I mean, Hastert made a monumental speech in 1998 decrying the evils of Clinton and voted along with Gingrich in the hopes of sparing the USA from biblical fire-and-brimstone perdition. Ultimately, the two Congressional Republican perverts had their day of reckoning though it was quite muted compared to Clinton's fate.

Today Nancy Pelosi has quashed all talk of impeachment. The reason being that she does not have the skeletons in the closet that those two Republican pervs had. Because of that, there is no incentive for her to pursue impeachment. Thus, despite all the disclosures made by Mueller which would seemingly suffice to warrant impeachment of Donny Dump, impeachment just ain't gonna happen.

[jhu72]

MD,
I will try and work in reverse order - as stated I am the cliff note guy
1. I am over HRC - I think between the classified server information and the Clinton Foundation she is as big a sleazeball as the guy sitting in the left chair - call a spade a spade man - be consistent and people are not but I am over it and stop the investigations into her issues - Comey the ref signaled he is waving it off - do the same. But you have to admit when people are calling for an investigation and another and another because he lied, man oh man, never jerk in someone's back yard if yours is not clean;
2. It is unfortunate that BC thought with his little head - he might be helpful right about now;
3. I will admit that I still chuckle at "little rocket man" - that was damn funny - not Presidential but funny - he is never gonna pull that trigger I finally got my wife off the ceiling;
3. As stated = I did my own thing because I wanted to swim in my lane - as an adult you get to swim in the lanes you want to and if you do not like it swim in another lane;
4. He got elected because he punches people in the face, says what he wants to say and yes whether you like it or not, he is a businessman......he mocks the elite because he gets a rise out of them....maybe if you all would stop rising, he would stop punching.
Best
On a personal note - best damn thing was being called "gumpah" - never thought I would experience it but it was fun as he$$

Well, you and I disagree as to who is the greater sleaze. By a very wide margin.

Which in no way suggests that I don't think HRC was corrupt, a liar, an enabler. I also think she was a poor communicator, came across as entitled and elitist. Yes, Bill was the opposite on the latter dimensions.

I think she lost because Trump as corrupt sleaze ball wasn't adequately distinguishable from the Dem nominee. Bernie's supporters didn't show up, and GOP voters could credibly tell themselves various versions of 'whataboutism'.

I had the luxury of not having to make a choice (I live in MD so HRC was foregone conclusion) so my vote was a protest vote. But I agree with conservative Ana Navarro who said last night she'd vote for a "stump" over Trump in 2020. Doesn't matter who the Dems put up.

I quite disagree that he's a 'businessman' if by that you mean he's a successful businessman. Nope, most of his dough came from daddy, hundreds of millions utilizing tax loopholes and outright fraud to maximize the generational wealth transfer. He subsequently has lost far more money, though Other Peoples' Money, than he ever retained for himself.

I also think we shouldn't call someone a 'businessman' if they are primarily con artists and cheats. Was Madoff a 'businessman'? I don't think so. Similarly, I'm not willing to call a mob boss a 'businessman', nor those who are funded by mob bosses.

So, I don't cut Trump the slightest bit of slack because his career was not as a public servant.

And no, he doesn't 'mock the elite because he gets a rise out of them'.
All his life he's desperately wanted to be considered 'elite'. Still does.

Deep rooted insecurity has played out to gauche excess in every aspect of his life.

I believe this was likely the biggest effect of the Russian effort on Trump's behalf. Having three kids all who were supporters of Bernie, I was amazed at the time how much nonsense they received via social media because they were known to be Bernie supporters. Most all of it was anti-HRC claims, 99% of it untrue (pre-convention). At the time I did not see the Russian hand it. All that was clear was that someone was putting a huge amount of work into this effort, and of course I recognized it as very likely false or obviously false. The youngsters were willing to believe it. It took some effort on my part to convince 2 of the 3 that all this was nonsense and HRC was a better choice than Orange Duce. They never considered Trump a good choice, but they had been convinced HRC was a worse choice through this social media effort and had intended to not vote in the general.

Of course you can't prove it, but my gut says this effect was enough to swing the election. In my lifetime I have never seen anything like the campaign at the time, the width and depth of the disinformation campaign. There have been much smaller, narrower, disinformation campaigns against candidates, but nothing like what I witnessed. Likely the difference was the sophistication of social media in 2016 compared to 2012 and earlier times.

[dislaxxic]

Go away for a week and come back to...

THE SAME OLD SAME OLD. Of course. Trump still the worst president in history. Trump supporters still standing up for this douchebag.

Or are they?

..

[dislaxxic]

HOPE HICKS HAD MORE AWARENESS OF THE FLYNN-KISLYAK AFTERMATH THAN THE MUELLER REPORT DISCLOSES

..

[MDlaxfan76]

The 17th will be interesting.

[dislaxxic]

QUESTIONS FOR ROBERT MUELLER (AND HIS PROSECUTORS) THAT GO BEYOND THE SHOW

Salty's grrlfriend has some questions...and they're GOOD ones...

..

[dislaxxic]

JIM JORDAN’S BUBBLE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO REMAIN PAINFULLY STUPID ABOUT THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION

"Meanwhile, Donald Trump refused to answer questions — all the questions he answered were about conspiracy, and most of his answers were non-responsive — until November 20, 2018. His answers about the Trump Tower Moscow deal were worse than non-responsive: they replicated the lies for which Michael Cohen is currently sitting in prison. Then, in December and January, Trump and Rudy Giuliani made comments that made it clear Trump’s answers were willful lies. Mueller offered Trump the opportunity to clarify his testimony, but he declined."

..

[dislaxxic]

Marcy Wheeler at Emptywheel starts a series on the Steele Dossier...

"In the first of a series on what the public record shows about the Steele dossier's influence on the Mueller investigation, I'll show that it definitely had a role in the investigation of Carter Page, but for different reasons than commonly understood."

..

[tech37]

Marcy Wheeler at Emptywheel starts a series on the Steele Dossier...

"In the first of a series on what the public record shows about the Steele dossier's influence on the Mueller investigation, I'll show that it definitely had a role in the investigation of Carter Page, but for different reasons than commonly understood."

..

Revisionist history of course

[seacoaster]

JIM JORDAN’S BUBBLE HAS ALLOWED HIM TO REMAIN PAINFULLY STUPID ABOUT THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION

"Meanwhile, Donald Trump refused to answer questions — all the questions he answered were about conspiracy, and most of his answers were non-responsive — until November 20, 2018. His answers about the Trump Tower Moscow deal were worse than non-responsive: they replicated the lies for which Michael Cohen is currently sitting in prison. Then, in December and January, Trump and Rudy Giuliani made comments that made it clear Trump’s answers were willful lies. Mueller offered Trump the opportunity to clarify his testimony, but he declined."

..

No one competes with Jordan in stupid, narrow minded and nasty. Even Meadows plays Pop Warner compared to Jordan's NFL size stupidity.

[tech37]

"In violating these fundamental legal principles, Mueller mirrored the infamous 2016 press conference by then-FBI Director James Comey, where he detailed Hillary Clinton’s (alleged) misdeeds and then declined to charge her. The charging decision should have been made by the DoJ, not the FBI, and the allegations should never have been mentioned unless they were charged. Comey’s press conference is an act that will live in infamy."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/artic ... 40493.html

[old salt]

Moved from the North Korea thread, which was highjacked by TDS Russophobes :

The Steele dossier was injected into the govt via multiple streams --
Steele directly to the FBI to DoJ, HRC hacks to State Dept to DoJ, CIA Director to DoJ via Sen Reid, & multiple MSM inquiries.
The McCain channel was the last & latest channel, now being cited as face saving cover.

The dossier wasn't declared a red herring until it started to unravel, then the (D)'s & MSM began distancing themselves from it, while shifting focus to the Popadop opera bouffe, which is still to be fully revealed & reported. Stay tuned, as more comes out on Mifsud, Halper, Downer, Azra Turk, & the rest of the set up crew.

So, Russia really didn't attempt to tilt the election on behalf of Trump?

You're grasping at straws, diverting & deflecting.
The subject is the Steele dossier, how it was assembled, who paid for it & how it was used, inside & outside the govt.

If you're actually concerned about foreign interference & disinformation in our elections, you should be as interested in the Steele dossier as you are about the Russia collusion hoax.

Of course Russia attemped to interfere in the election, to discredit HRC after she was elected.
Just as everyone associated with the production & exploitation of the Steele dossier attempted to prevent Trump's election, then undermine his Presidency & end it after one term, or sooner, if possible.

Russia's plan worked beyond it's expectations & TDS zombies who cling to the Steele dossier & refuse to examine what it was part of, are the enduring useful idiots who continue to pay dividends on Russia's initial investment.

Complete baloney again from you Salty.

Your attack on the Steele communications is all part of your deflection from the reality, as reported by the Mueller team exhaustively, that the Russians attempted to interfere in the election on behalf of Trump. That was the primary point of the Steele memos..the Russians have an active measures campaign and no one seems to care!

You now go on and expand that deflection to "Russia collusion hoax". Ignoring the exhaustive reporting by Mueller that the Trump team knew the Russians were interfering on Trump's behalf and welcomed it. Again and again and again. No hoax. And they lied about it again and again and again. No hoax. And Trump subsequently obstructed the investigation, at least multiple times as documented. No hoax.

And you're whining in subsequent posts that the 'MSM interfered' in the election. The free press reporting is interference???

Hoo boy.

...& you continue to distract & deflect from the fact that the key parts of the Steele dossier, that were used by you & the MSM to hammer Trump for 3 years now, still remain unsubstantiated or have been proven false. I'm talking about what the Steele dossier alleged about Trump, not what it said about Russia. You continue to ignore the reality thar Steele has now admitted that he was desperate to prevent Trump's election & that he was uncertain about the validity of his "intel". You continue to defend Steele's bogus sludge as legal oppo & ignore the fact that the FBI (as well as the DNC/FBI) paid him for it & the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

On Russian interference, Mueller's report told us little beyond what we already learned from his "speaking" indictments (which will never go to court) & the IC's report in Jan '17. The Mueller report just provides more granular detail in a readable narrative.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... t-renewals

The veracity of Steele's dossier was undercut by Mueller, whose report on the findings of his expansive Russia investigation was released by the Justice Department in redacted form on Thursday. Mueller found the two most dramatic claims in Steele’s dossier likely lacked substance: former Trump attorney Michael Cohen meeting with Kremlin operatives in Prague in the summer of 2016 and the Russians obtaining compromising material on Trump.

Steele himself described the findings in the dossier as raw intelligence, and in a deposition that was part of a lawsuit against BuzzFeed, he said "yes" when asked if some of the Russia claims could be fake.

The FBI suspended its relationship with Steele in October 2016 for unauthorized contact with the media. Despite this, the FBI maintained an unofficial backchannel with Steele up to at least November 2017 via Justice Department official Bruce Ohr.

[a fan]

the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

There it is again.

Playing the Sean Hannity game: keep reporting speculation and opinion as if it's a fact.

You have no clue what was used to obtain the warrants.

The part I like about that is you that you think secret courts are great ideas. Then complain about them when they do the very thing that the ACLU and the libs warned you would happen.

You don't want to hear that the FISA courts are part of the problem. You think "this is an anomaly" with no evidence that this isn't simply par for the course.

[old salt]

the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

You have no clue what was used to obtain the warrants.

You don't want to hear that the FISA courts are part of the problem. You think "this is an anomaly" with no evidence that this isn't simply par for the course.

The FISA warrant applications on Carter Page have been released.

The initial FISA applications, which did not include "intel" from the Steele dossier, we're disapproved by the FISA Judge.

[MDlaxfan76]

Moved from the North Korea thread, which was highjacked by TDS Russophobes :

The Steele dossier was injected into the govt via multiple streams --
Steele directly to the FBI to DoJ, HRC hacks to State Dept to DoJ, CIA Director to DoJ via Sen Reid, & multiple MSM inquiries.
The McCain channel was the last & latest channel, now being cited as face saving cover.

The dossier wasn't declared a red herring until it started to unravel, then the (D)'s & MSM began distancing themselves from it, while shifting focus to the Popadop opera bouffe, which is still to be fully revealed & reported. Stay tuned, as more comes out on Mifsud, Halper, Downer, Azra Turk, & the rest of the set up crew.

So, Russia really didn't attempt to tilt the election on behalf of Trump?

You're grasping at straws, diverting & deflecting.
The subject is the Steele dossier, how it was assembled, who paid for it & how it was used, inside & outside the govt.

If you're actually concerned about foreign interference & disinformation in our elections, you should be as interested in the Steele dossier as you are about the Russia collusion hoax.

Of course Russia attemped to interfere in the election, to discredit HRC after she was elected.
Just as everyone associated with the production & exploitation of the Steele dossier attempted to prevent Trump's election, then undermine his Presidency & end it after one term, or sooner, if possible.

Russia's plan worked beyond it's expectations & TDS zombies who cling to the Steele dossier & refuse to examine what it was part of, are the enduring useful idiots who continue to pay dividends on Russia's initial investment.

Complete baloney again from you Salty.

Your attack on the Steele communications is all part of your deflection from the reality, as reported by the Mueller team exhaustively, that the Russians attempted to interfere in the election on behalf of Trump. That was the primary point of the Steele memos..the Russians have an active measures campaign and no one seems to care!

You now go on and expand that deflection to "Russia collusion hoax". Ignoring the exhaustive reporting by Mueller that the Trump team knew the Russians were interfering on Trump's behalf and welcomed it. Again and again and again. No hoax. And they lied about it again and again and again. No hoax. And Trump subsequently obstructed the investigation, at least multiple times as documented. No hoax.

And you're whining in subsequent posts that the 'MSM interfered' in the election. The free press reporting is interference???

Hoo boy.

...& you continue to distract & deflect from the fact that the key parts of the Steele dossier, that were used by you & the MSM to hammer Trump for 3 years now, still remain unsubstantiated or have been proven false. I'm talking about what the Steele dossier alleged about Trump, not what it said about Russia. You continue to ignore the reality thar Steele has now admitted that he was desperate to prevent Trump's election & that he was uncertain about the validity of his "intel". You continue to defend Steele's bogus sludge as legal oppo & ignore the fact that the FBI (as well as the DNC/FBI) paid him for it & the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

On Russian interference, Mueller's report told us little beyond what we already learned from his "speaking" indictments (which will never go to court) & the IC's report in Jan '17. The Mueller report just provides more granular detail in a readable narrative.

Again, nonsense.

The key aspects of the Steele docs were that the Russians had an active measures campaign on behalf of Trump. And, yes, that Trump and crew had various interactions with the Russians. All true. And certainly alarming.

But it's not accurate that this alone, or even primarily, was the basis of the FISA warrants, much less the 3 times they needed to be renewed by different judges and based on actual findings from the prior surveillance.

You and Hannity et al (sheesh, Hannity was coordinating Manafort's defense!!!) simply want to change the focus away from Trump and his complicity with, or at least welcoming of, the Russian efforts to help his campaign.

I'm not claiming anything about 'legal oppo', that's another poster. But sure, paid opposition research isn't against the law. Accepting things of value without paying for them and without disclosure as a campaign donation is against the law. And any form of campaign donation from a foreign source is against the law. I'm not a lawyer, just play one on here, but I don't see any legal violation by the Clinton Campaign.

But again, you're just trying to distract from what actually is serious. The Russians interfered on behalf of Trump. He and his cronies knew that and welcomed the help. They had lots and lots of meetings with Russians, and lied over and over again about it.

And, of course, Trump just told us he'd do it again.

And you want to talk about Steele being alarmed about Trump getting elected...

[a fan]

That's not the whole story, old salt. But you know that. Until we hear about all the applications, from the applicants, and from each Judge....we have no idea what held, if any, weight in the eyes of the FISA Judge.

We've discussed this before. You yourself said we'll never have an answer from any of the FISA Judges. The FISA system is set up for problems, as the ACLU and other libs pointed out when it was beefed up post 9/11. These warning were ignored. And here we are.

Best, and most important part? Nothing has changed. So moving forward, this will surely happen again. Sweet.

[old salt]

That's not the whole story, old salt. But you know that. Until we hear about all the applications, from the applicants, and from each Judge....we have no idea what held, if any, weight in the eyes of the FISA Judge.

We've discussed this before. You yourself said we'll never have an answer from any of the FISA Judges. The FISA system is set up for problems, as the ACLU and other libs pointed out when it was beefed up post 9/11. These warning were ignored. And here we are.

Best, and most important part? Nothing has changed. So moving forward, this will surely happen again. Sweet.

Wait & see what the DoJ IG reports.

[Typical Lax Dad]

the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

You have no clue what was used to obtain the warrants.

You don't want to hear that the FISA courts are part of the problem. You think "this is an anomaly" with no evidence that this isn't simply par for the course.

The FISA warrant applications on Carter Page have been released.

The initial FISA applications, which did not include "intel" from the Steele dossier, we're disapproved by the FISA Judge.

Dug in like a tick.

[tech37]

But again, you're just trying to distract from what actually is serious. The Russians interfered on behalf of Trump. He and his cronies knew that and welcomed the help. They had lots and lots of meetings with Russians, and lied over and over again about it.

And yet, no collusion and no indictments regarding collusion...

I thought you read Weiss...er, I mean Mueller's report?