THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I could use an accurate RPI reference.

laf does RPI here:

http://www.laxbytes.com/2019/binmenstats/rpiing01.php

Another RPI page from poster laxreference, also showing W-L results against 1-5, 6-10, 11-20, and 21+:

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi ... -lacrosse/

Thanks, CU77. I knew you’d know. You da man.

[DocBarrister]

A couple more data points:

With all due respect, where are you going with that wombat? Why do we need additional date for a 6-6 team? Whether we are 15 or 25 matters not if we can't beat a team ahead of us.

If we lose next week and somehow tOSU takes the day off, we should decline the BiG invite to avoid another embarassment.

Only number Blue Jays need to know is ZERO.

That’s how many more losses they can suffer if they want to keep playing this season. I don’t think this Hopkins team goes to the NCAAs even if they beat MD next week and Penn State or MD in the first round of the B1G tournament the following week. That will leave them 8-7 (presuming a loss in the B1G final). Don’t think that will cut it.

Lose to MD and it’s all over. Lose in the first round of B1G and it’s all over. Lose in the B1G final and it’s all over.

Hopkins needs to win or go home. Simple as that.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Just a reminder about the man who heads Johns Hopkins lacrosse and why he was hired:

Pietramala introduced as Hopkins coach

June 9, 2000
Baltimore Sun

During his previous time at Hopkins, Pietramala developed the reputation of being a first-rate recruiter, having helped bring in several key players that helped Haus' teams over the past few years. At Cornell, he continued that trend, as two of the players he brought in - Justin Cynor and Ryan McClay - earned All-America honors this season.

On the field, Cornell improved in a short time, and the coach of Ivy League rival and national finalist Princeton had no trouble pinpointing why.

"You get intensity, and you get a team that knows you better than most," Bill Tierney said. "Hopkins is getting the next great coach in lacrosse."

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html

Yes, that was a long time ago. For some of us, seems just like yesterday.

DocBarrister

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

KFTC

[primitiveskills]

Petro post game press conference next week:

1) We understand this is not what is expected at Hopkins.

2) We will evaluate the entire program this summer.

3) Changes will be made to get Hopkins back where it belongs.

Next fall:

1) We have changed the pregame meal. Nothing else is wrong.

This. If the University cares about having a competitive program again, make the change. If it is OK with the inexorable decline of the program, remain quiet. But please, please, no more of this nonsense.

[DocBarrister]

KFTC

Kentuckians for the Commonwealth?

Koreans Favoring Total Command?

Ketchup for the Commoner?

Kicking Footballs To Cucamonga?

Oh, right ... your obsession with chickens.

DocBarrister

[HopFan16]

That’s how many more losses they can suffer if they want to keep playing this season. I don’t think this Hopkins team goes to the NCAAs even if they beat MD next week and Penn State or MD in the first round of the B1G tournament the following week. That will leave them 8-7 (presuming a loss in the B1G final). Don’t think that will cut it.

Lose to MD and it’s all over. Lose in the first round of B1G and it’s all over. Lose in the B1G final and it’s all over.

Hopkins needs to win or go home. Simple as that.

DocBarrister

This is not going to happen, but two more wins against any combination of Maryland and Penn State would almost certainly be enough. The overall record wouldn't matter as long as it was .500 or better: The Jays would have a top 10 RPI and two wins over top ~5 teams. That'd be enough. Again—not going to happen—but I think you're overestimating the rest of the bubble. Based on today's result though I think we're all better off making our Memorial Day beach plans than trying to game out some way for Hopkins to continue its season.

No one expected the Jays to win today, but the manner in which they lost has become an unfortunate pattern. They were embarrassed, and it wasn't the first time. It has to stop. You want to talk recruiting problems, well, imagine being a high school kid watching this game on TV. Which program do you want to go play for? Permanent damage to the legacy of the program is being done here. You can't just keep going on and on forever and expect it to get better without making any changes.

[MDlaxfan76]

Honestly, why any one is shocked in this outcome is beyond me. Over the last 10 years, outside of one year when one guy put his back on the team and had the best individual goal scoring year ever at Hopkins, this program has been a disaster.

Danny Jones and Kyle Marr aren't the first guys to take dumb penalties. Darby isnt the first guy to make a head scratching decision to come out of the crease. Desimone isnt the first guy that has gotten a long leash with zippy production. The current munchkins middies (particularly SSDM) aren't the first group that you have to question if Petro actually meets to look at the size of the recruits. This is who Hopkins is under Petro. It has been this way for a decade. Hes always had guys that take dumb penalties - see the LSM with Pat's, head scratching goalie decisions - see Schneider against PSU on Sunday night 4-5 years ago. Desimone is this years Dismuke. 2019 Munchkin kiddies meet Carlini.

The real question is if the administration will let this continue. I cant see how Petro can come back next year but I've been saying that for a long time. I really cant see how Petro comes back without staff changes. But, again I wont be the least shocked the gang is all back in 2020.

He clearly needs a true DC because it is pretty clear his defensive schemes are not working and he hasn't adapted to changes in how the game is played. Outside of 1 year, his defenses have gotten worse over the last 7-8 years.

Saying that I cant foresee what DC would come to Hopkins knowing Petro, if he is here, Petro will want to remain in control. The fact he is on his last year of a contract also isnt that enticing. I am certainly not suggesting Petro should remain or given a 1 year extension. He should be gone butnit will be hard to change without a complete sweep.

Offensively, Benson is terrible. His entire offense is work to get the shortie and attack him. That works great when there is no shot clock but that isnt way the game is played anymore. You cant wait that long anymore or you are going to force a shot. Watch PSU they never had qualms about attacking long sticks. Most teams dont. Of course, you need the guys that can do it. I again point to the fact Benson hasn't gotten a real sniff at a job ever. Other programs see this program is a disaater.

As for recruiting, how does a kid like Costabile get away from Baltimore to star at ND. I get his brothers went there but if a kid can star at MSJ, there should at least be a visit to try to bring him to Homewood.

4 Costabiles from Mt. St. Joe: oldest Chris was All-Ivy at Dartmouth, Craig played for Penn, not sure about Kyle.

[flalax22]

Offensively, Benson is terrible. His entire offense is work to get the shortie and attack him. That works great when there is no shot clock but that isnt way the game is played anymore. You cant wait that long anymore or you are going to force a shot. Watch PSU they never had qualms about attacking long sticks. Most teams dont. Of course, you need the guys that can do it. I again point to the fact Benson hasn't gotten a real sniff at a job ever. Other programs see this program is a disaater.

If you are currently on the bench as an attackman or middie I would be putting my name into the transfer portal at least until these coaches are no longer dictating your playing time. I cant imagine there are many guys on the bench that dont believe they can do better than Baskin, Keough, Smith, Desimone and the rest. As I have pointed out if the coaching staff is back it will be the same unproductive guys taking the reps. Absolutely ridiculous when everyone can see there are better players rotting on the pine.

[HopFan16]

Offensively, Benson is terrible. His entire offense is work to get the shortie and attack him. That works great when there is no shot clock but that isnt way the game is played anymore. You cant wait that long anymore or you are going to force a shot. Watch PSU they never had qualms about attacking long sticks. Most teams dont. Of course, you need the guys that can do it. I again point to the fact Benson hasn't gotten a real sniff at a job ever. Other programs see this program is a disaater.

If you are currently on the bench as an attackman or middie I would be putting my name into the transfer portal at least until these coaches are no longer dictating your playing time. I cant imagine there are many guys on the bench that dont believe they can do better than Baskin, Keough, Smith, Desimone and the rest. As I have pointed out if the coaching staff is back it will be the same unproductive guys taking the reps. Absolutely ridiculous when everyone can see there are better players rotting on the pine.

We've been over this before, but there really isn't much depth behind them. The guy with a legitimate gripe, of course, is Evan Zinn, whose lack of playing time at the offensive midfield at this point is so painfully illogical that it could be the plot of a Franz Kafka novel. Cattoni is hurt, Ernst is a walk-on, so you're really only talking about Zinn, Mabbett, Lily, and Degnon. Mabbett's goal today was against PSU's backups but at least he showed the ability to square up his matchup and put the ball in the back of the net which is something the other guys have struggled to do all year. I've already advocated for Degnon to get playing time. Shilling and Fox can't play midfield. Stagnitta must be a Tewaaraton-level player in practice to have become a mainstay on the 2nd line at the expense of Zinn and the others. I mean he must be Kyle Harrison when the cameras aren't on. That's the only explanation I can think of. That's everyone. That's all the offensive players. Maybe you give Kuhn is short-stick back and let him play offense? Only half kidding.

Again, though, while the midfield is clearly a massive issue, the defense gave up 20 goals today. 20. TWENTY! First time in 25 years.

Props to Narewski on coming off the bench and going 11-21 against Arceri. Without him it might have been more like 25-5.

[DougELax]

Offensively, Benson is terrible. His entire offense is work to get the shortie and attack him. That works great when there is no shot clock but that isnt way the game is played anymore. You cant wait that long anymore or you are going to force a shot. Watch PSU they never had qualms about attacking long sticks. Most teams dont. Of course, you need the guys that can do it. I again point to the fact Benson hasn't gotten a real sniff at a job ever. Other programs see this program is a disaater.

If you are currently on the bench as an attackman or middie I would be putting my name into the transfer portal at least until these coaches are no longer dictating your playing time. I cant imagine there are many guys on the bench that dont believe they can do better than Baskin, Keough, Smith, Desimone and the rest. As I have pointed out if the coaching staff is back it will be the same unproductive guys taking the reps. Absolutely ridiculous when everyone can see there are better players rotting on the pine.

We've been over this before, but there really isn't much depth behind them. The guy with a legitimate gripe, of course, is Evan Zinn, whose lack of playing time at the offensive midfield at this point is so painfully illogical that it could be the plot of a Franz Kafka novel. Cattoni is hurt, Ernst is a walk-on, so you're really only talking about Zinn, Mabbett, Lily, and Degnon. Mabbett's goal today was against PSU's backups but at least he showed the ability to square up his matchup and put the ball in the back of the net which is something the other guys have struggled to do all year. I've already advocated for Degnon to get playing time. Shilling and Fox can't play midfield. Stagnitta must be a Tewaaraton-level player in practice to have become a mainstay on the 2nd line at the expense of Zinn and the others. I mean he must be Kyle Harrison when the cameras aren't on. That's the only explanation I can think of. That's everyone. That's all the offensive players. Maybe you give Kuhn is short-stick back and let him play offense? Only half kidding.

Again, though, while the midfield is clearly a massive issue, the defense gave up 20 goals today. 20. TWENTY! First time in 25 years.

Props to Narewski on coming off the bench and going 11-21 against Arceri. Without him it might have been more like 25-5.

Did Narewski play any last week? Might have helped down the stretch to win a few more faceoffs during tOSU's comeback.

[seacoaster]

KFTC

Kentuckians For The Commonwealth? Or is this referring to a chicken? Page count?

[jhu06]

I'm really ready to see this ad woman get off her tail and President Daniels take a break from constantly begging us for $ and answer questions about whether the state of this program is up to Hopkins standards and what they intend to do about it. My guess is either nothing or they'll bring in some mediocre mid major tool they'll allow to waste a half decade producing similar results while they celebrate the womens tennis teams 8th place finish at nationals and how many womens xc team members got ncaa post grad scholarships.

As someone pointed out earlier we've heard the "It's not 1982 Hopkins shouldn't expect to win a title every year, Hopkins fans put too much pressure on players, there's parity in the game, Baltimore is violent/the girls aren't attractive/the academics-admissions are too hard/admin doesn't give enough support, Michigan football is on tv every week, the dorms aren't nice enough, fans aren't at practice and don't know more than coaches, player x player y and player z are hurt be nice even though they suck" and how many other excuses am I missing? for more than a decade now with little result to show for it. Meanwhile the program kicked programs that actually win off campus, got a fancy new facility on top of which they're now asking for $, formed a job placement council, formed an advisory council-for which the program has produced 1 pathetic ff and 0 national championships.

[steel_hop]

Honestly, why any one is shocked in this outcome is beyond me. Over the last 10 years, outside of one year when one guy put his back on the team and had the best individual goal scoring year ever at Hopkins, this program has been a disaster.

Danny Jones and Kyle Marr aren't the first guys to take dumb penalties. Darby isnt the first guy to make a head scratching decision to come out of the crease. Desimone isnt the first guy that has gotten a long leash with zippy production. The current munchkins middies (particularly SSDM) aren't the first group that you have to question if Petro actually meets to look at the size of the recruits. This is who Hopkins is under Petro. It has been this way for a decade. Hes always had guys that take dumb penalties - see the LSM with Pat's, head scratching goalie decisions - see Schneider against PSU on Sunday night 4-5 years ago. Desimone is this years Dismuke. 2019 Munchkin kiddies meet Carlini.

The real question is if the administration will let this continue. I cant see how Petro can come back next year but I've been saying that for a long time. I really cant see how Petro comes back without staff changes. But, again I wont be the least shocked the gang is all back in 2020.

He clearly needs a true DC because it is pretty clear his defensive schemes are not working and he hasn't adapted to changes in how the game is played. Outside of 1 year, his defenses have gotten worse over the last 7-8 years.

Saying that I cant foresee what DC would come to Hopkins knowing Petro, if he is here, Petro will want to remain in control. The fact he is on his last year of a contract also isnt that enticing. I am certainly not suggesting Petro should remain or given a 1 year extension. He should be gone butnit will be hard to change without a complete sweep.

Offensively, Benson is terrible. His entire offense is work to get the shortie and attack him. That works great when there is no shot clock but that isnt way the game is played anymore. You cant wait that long anymore or you are going to force a shot. Watch PSU they never had qualms about attacking long sticks. Most teams dont. Of course, you need the guys that can do it. I again point to the fact Benson hasn't gotten a real sniff at a job ever. Other programs see this program is a disaater.

As for recruiting, how does a kid like Costabile get away from Baltimore to star at ND. I get his brothers went there but if a kid can star at MSJ, there should at least be a visit to try to bring him to Homewood.

4 Costabiles from Mt. St. Joe: oldest Chris was All-Ivy at Dartmouth, Craig played for Penn, not sure about Kyle.

Even makes it worse that he went to ND. Thought their was a brotherly connection at ND.

[houndace1]

outsider here from up charles street ... but the talent that the team has isn't being properly used. Someone said that Tillman has so much success because he gets good talent but knows how to effectively use it. Add the fact that the guys who aren't as talented are brought up to speed in that program, or any other very successful program in recent years like Yale, Duke, PSU now.

One thing that stuck out to me was that someone stated " you can teach stick stills once the guys get here but what CAN be recruited are athletes (big strong fast) where a few have great stick skills and are studs while the others get their stick tricks/skills worked on as they progress in college. Seems to me thats the formula most top teams are using now to recruit ... maybe Petro is behind the 8 ball in terms of the recruiting landscape now?

Finally, fans not watching practices. Frankly idek what time the teams do practice but i'd love to watch sometime

[Muleski]

This is a serious question, so don't flame me ten words into the post.

I'm a former NESCAC athlete {three sports, including this one}. I've been a NESCAC and Liberty League parent. My son played on a D1 team in the LL {not lacrosse}, with a full grant in aid program {i.e. fully funded}. I have served on a NESCAC board, and on a LL board, and chaired the equivalent of the committee on athletics at both. I know AD's. Two in the Ivy League are good friends. Three in the NESCAC. Two LL. I know DIII college presidents. I think "I get it."

No matter how amazingly strong the legacy of a D1 sport is, and I mean teams that have won National Championships, it is NOT easy to fit a D1 team sport into a top flight academic DIII school in 2019. I have been neck deep in these conversations. With very smart people from every constituency. Alums who are pro athletes. Influential alums making one seven figure donation after another. Provosts. Academic deans. AD's, coaches. University Presidents.

So, what is the chance that Hopkins abandons D1 lacrosse and moves the program to DIII, in alignment with ALL of their other sports programs? I know that no lacrosse fan cares about any of the other sports, but Hopkins is a serious contender for the Directors Cup. That is not a small deal. Schools like Williams, one of the top liberal arts colleges in the country take it seriously. When you can say that you admit 6% of your applicants and win the Cup, that's a big deal. Best of both: academic rigor and serious athletics.

I don't think {and I've been privvy to research} that a school like Hobart gets a real lift from having a D1 lacrosse program. Loyal lacrosse alums feel the other way, obviously. College presidents and boards and AD's like "National Championships", for sure. But I know that they might be very happy with being in the DIII FF, and winning it often.

I don't know. I have been involved with this sport for 60+ years. My mom and dad both played through college....in the 1930's. My mom was a college coach. I never owned a baseball glove, etc. I HATE TO SEE HOPKINS IN THIS SITUATION. HATE IT.

Would this ever be contemplated?

[flalax22]

We've been over this before, but there really isn't much depth behind them. The guy with a legitimate gripe, of course, is Evan Zinn, whose lack of playing time at the offensive midfield at this point is so painfully illogical that it could be the plot of a Franz Kafka novel. Cattoni is hurt, Ernst is a walk-on, so you're really only talking about Zinn, Mabbett, Lily, and Degnon. Mabbett's goal today was against PSU's backups but at least he showed the ability to square up his matchup and put the ball in the back of the net which is something the other guys have struggled to do all year. I've already advocated for Degnon to get playing time. Shilling and Fox can't play midfield. Stagnitta must be a Tewaaraton-level player in practice to have become a mainstay on the 2nd line at the expense of Zinn and the others. I mean he must be Kyle Harrison when the cameras aren't on. That's the only explanation I can think of. That's everyone. That's all the offensive players. Maybe you give Kuhn is short-stick back and let him play offense? Only half kidding.

You don't think Fox or Shilling would have more than three goals at this point running first line minutes? That is almost laughable.

They can play midfield as much as Forry or any of the munchkins.

But yes my real point is Zinn and Mabbett and may be even Lily. All are bigger, faster and more skilled than what Benson puts out. I know you have said Mabbett isn't fast but I disagree. He's faster than Forry and other guys with tiny little legs who get a full run at 1st and 2nd line.

BTW a nice workman like game from Coulter. Only took them four years to figure out a guy that competes hard may be a benefit to have on the field.

[steel_hop]

[quote=Muleski post_id=43444 time=1555895451 user_id=436

Would this ever be contemplated?
[/quote]

No. It has never been contemplated. 15 years ago the NCAA tried to push a change to the bylaws that would disallow a school having 1 Division I team and the rest D3, Hopkins along with other schools that c would have been impacted by the chance to stop. But, if they didn't stop the change, at the time, Hopkins said they would move all the programs up to DI than move lax to D3 - obviously the school would drop some programs to do it. Would that ever change? Maybe.

The only change that needs to happen is the coach needs to be canned and a new coached hired that moves the program in the right direction.

[steel_hop]

[quote=Muleski post_id=43444 time=1555895451 user_id=436

Would this ever be contemplated?
[/quote]

No. It has never been contemplated. 15 years ago the NCAA tried to push a change to the bylaws that would disallow a school having 1 Division I team and the rest D3, Hopkins along with other schools that c would have been impacted by the chance to stop. But, if they didn't stop the change, at the time, Hopkins said they would move all the programs up to DI than move lax to D3 - obviously the school would drop some programs to do it. Would that ever change? Maybe.

The only change that needs to happen is the coach needs to be canned and a new coached hired that moves the program in the right direction.

[DMac]

Muleski wrote
I don't think {and I've been privvy to research} that a school like Hobart gets a real lift from having a D1 lacrosse program. Loyal lacrosse alums feel the other way, obviously. College presidents and boards and AD's like "National Championships", for sure. But I know that they might be very happy with being in the DIII FF, and winning it often.

I don't know. I have been involved with this sport for 60+ years. My mom and dad both played through college....in the 1930's. My mom was a college coach. I never owned a baseball glove, etc. I HATE TO SEE HOPKINS IN THIS SITUATION. HATE IT.

Would this ever be contemplated?

I was around Hobart quite a bit as a fan when they were the envy of D III lacrosse and on their consecutive NC run. Was the best. Didn't like it when they went D I (understand why they did/more or less had to). Being a big fish in a little smaller pond is every bit as much fun and exciting for players and fans (ADs too) as the bigger fish in the bigger pond.
To answer the contemplated part regarding Hop, the day they'd go D III in lacrosse would be the first day hell began freezing over.

Munchkins with short little legs and blubbery mammals , sounds like quite a circus down there at Hop.
Has the single day increase in page count been set here today?