Inside Lacrosse Top 50

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The last time I can remember making the jump to a character judgment because of play on the field was when a North Carolina player decked a BC player (Christina Walsh?) from behind in the ACC playoffs at full speed, after a full field run -- really dangerous, judgment-free decking just before the NCAA tournament was about to start.

That was this play, sea:



However--this (2nd foul in the sequence) hard foul by BC's Brooke Troy preceded Kara Klages. This was clearly a case of you-mess-with-our-players-we'll-mess-with-yours payback. I can't blame Klages. She was one tough cookie and definitely a bodyguard/enforcer for her teammates.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

There are rules on this forum, established by the owners and custodians. There are no rules about critiquing a player, or her character for that matter. There are rules about attacking other posters.

Do you (not saying you in particular) really need a rule to keep from attacking a college player’s character? Hell, do you need a rule to keep from “attacking” them at all?

This is where the site breaks down. It’s one thing to critique someone’s play and another to attack it. Too many times here, people start attacking because of school or kid alliances. This tends to happen when people can be keyboard bullies. I’m betting 95% of what gets said here wouldn’t be said if we were all in a room talking face to face.

I shouldn’t speak for njbill but I think that was his point in this whole matter. If someone thinks MJ shouldn’t be top 10, that’s fine, but labeling her a quitter is the problem. Anyone who plays/played sports, knows that’s the worst thing you can call an athlete. All players have bad games from time to time, by no means does that make them quitters.

I was doing a little digging by searching a certain member and then narrowing the search with the word "ring" (looking for ring chasing) and went all the way back to your very first post. You are one of the participants on this forum who made a memorable entrance with their first post. You were the other person I alluded to way back when I was calling out inconsistency in calling out others. (Not that you are the one who's been inconsistent.) This may all sound vague but I am trying to be a little bit discreet. In any event, I agreed wholeheartedly with what you said way back then and applauded you for calling out the person who was presuming to know said player's motivation. I can see in a more defined light where you're coming from now. However--I differ from you in that particular category. I'm not a lax dad and I never have been. I see women's lacrosse as a sport--pure and simple--same way I see all the other sports. I don't change how I write about sports just because a player is in college. There are pro tennis players who are younger than college students. What is ultimately at issue here--their age or their academic status? A lot of rambling here from me. Just throwing out some thoughts.

One last observation—I know there are a lot of folks on here who are parents of lacrosse players, and I don’t say with this with any snarkiness, but this is first and foremost a public forum, not a place promising deference to parents of players or players themselves. The FanLax charter specifically reads that this place is for all lacrosse fans. I think it’s unfair to try to make everybody fall in step with commentary that is approved and acceptable and inoffensive to parents.

[DMac]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

Is there an example of something I wrote about a specific player that demonstrated a “sense of decency and respect is lost” or “lack of character and consideration” on my part, DMac? I can't tell whether you are implying something about me specifically or just making a general statement.

I'm curious to test what you claim against some recent remarks. How do these https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=416755#p416755 comments about this particular player hang in the balance when weighing them against a "sense of decency and respect"? Do they "lack character and consideration" or are they okay in your book?

What exactly is the litmus test for what crosses the line when commenting on players?

How about these comments by journalists Emily Giambalvo from the Washington Post and Edward Lee from the Baltimore Sun? https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=402917#p402917

I'm interested to have some examples from the above comments to measure against the standards you present here.

In a wider scope, when all is said and done, these standards you mention are applied to others comments subjectively. One person may think they're fine and another may not. All in the eye of the beholder, as is said. So where do we go from there? That's where the charter comes in. If folks find the charter too broad with too much room for abuse, then maybe another forum should be launched. But as long as this particular one exists, the rules and guidelines are pretty clearly defined and enforced.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

Every community adopts its own set of mores and norms, in addition to or in opposition to whatever the "charter" says. And the breakdown of (or inability to agree upon) a set of basically agreed upon norms is usually a bad sign for a community.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

Every community adopts its own set of mores and norms, in addition to or in opposition to whatever the "charter" says. And the breakdown of (or inability to agree upon) a set of basically agreed upon norms is usually a bad sign for a community.

Agreed. I think this is well said. I think this can also be said for pretty much any community in existence--whether online or otherwise--but especially online.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

Every community adopts its own set of mores and norms, in addition to or in opposition to whatever the "charter" says. And the breakdown of (or inability to agree upon) a set of basically agreed upon norms is usually a bad sign for a community.

Agreed. I think this is well said. I think this can also be said for pretty much any community in existence--whether online or otherwise--but especially online.

I fear you missed my point. Have a nice day.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Speaks volumes when sense of decency and respect is lost because of how the charter on a discussion forum is written.
Lack of character and consideration comes to mind with your proclamation.

Every community adopts its own set of mores and norms, in addition to or in opposition to whatever the "charter" says. And the breakdown of (or inability to agree upon) a set of basically agreed upon norms is usually a bad sign for a community.

Agreed. I think this is well said. I think this can also be said for pretty much any community in existence--whether online or otherwise--but especially online.

I fear you missed my point. Have a nice day.

Wouldn't be the first time, sea. I know you can run circles around me in the areas of intelligence and lacrosse experience/knowledge so I'm not surprised I missed it. In the end though--it's okay. It's not critical that we understand or agree with each other. I'm getting to a place of peace with the fact that there are those on here who don't appreciate my being here. As I get older I realize more and more how true it is that one can't please everybody.

I enjoy watching and writing about women's lacrosse. I know things I've written in the past have (sometimes rightly) been called offensive and controversial at times, but I have also gotten enough positive feedback to know that my contribution on the whole here is appreciated. Were all that I've written on FanLax over the years to be sifted and categorized, the overwhelming majority would be considered positive and laudatory toward the sport of women's lacrosse and the players who play the game. The things I've written that were critical about players, coaches and teams--I don't think they were any different than what any other person writing about any sport would write or has written.

In any event--I'm excited that opening day is only 65 days away. I know that's something we can all agree on.

[Bart]

Can, Paul Simon wrote a song about you:

“A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”

Here’s a great cover of the song.

https://www.google.com/search?q=paddyha ... A53do-m4Wk

I defy you to listen to this version without tapping your toes.

Loved that rendition

[Bart]

Other than one or two of us, most posters here have stood by silently as posters have relentlessly criticized a young female athlete for many years to an extent that has never been seen before on these boards. Many of us coach young women and are deeply committed to growing the sport, so it’s puzzling that so few have spoken up to say: “Hey man, I get it that you think she’s selfish, but we all heard you the 20th time. Time to move on.”

You and NJBill can continue to butt heads on this but I am honestly curious what you meant by this? How one relates to growing the sport?

[Bart]

One last observation—I know there are a lot of folks on here who are parents of lacrosse players, and I don’t say with this with any snarkiness, but this is first and foremost a public forum, not a place promising deference to parents of players or players themselves. The FanLax charter specifically reads that this place is for all lacrosse fans. I think it’s unfair to try to make everybody fall in step with commentary that is approved and acceptable and inoffensive to parents.

In some sense, this I can agree with you ONW. What I find laughable is that while it is unfair to fall in step with commentary approved to be inoffensive to parents it is completely "fair" to chastise and moralize what an individual poster seems as "personally attacking" to his or her post. It is surmised that "attacking" a pseudoname is personal while a post may be "attacking" an actual person's child's, spouse, girlfriend or some other unknown close personal relationship. One is ok but the other not? Just seems silly to me.

I will say it again, post what you want. It really is up to the individual how he/she contributes here......but don't cry crocodile tears when someone punches back personally. Since we all, for the most part, respond using pseudonames we rarely know who is actually posting.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

One last observation—I know there are a lot of folks on here who are parents of lacrosse players, and I don’t say with this with any snarkiness, but this is first and foremost a public forum, not a place promising deference to parents of players or players themselves. The FanLax charter specifically reads that this place is for all lacrosse fans. I think it’s unfair to try to make everybody fall in step with commentary that is approved and acceptable and inoffensive to parents.

In some sense, this I can agree with you ONW. What I find laughable is that while it is unfair to fall in step with commentary approved to be inoffensive to parents it is completely "fair" to chastise and moralize what an individual poster seems as "personally attacking" to his or her post. It is surmised that "attacking" a pseudoname is personal while a post may be "attacking" an actual person's child's, spouse, girlfriend or some other unknown close personal relationship. One is ok but the other not? Just seems silly to me.

I will say it again, post what you want. It really is up to the individual how he/she contributes here......but don't cry crocodile tears when someone punches back personally. Since we all, for the most part, respond using pseudonames we rarely know who is actually posting.

I've read this perspective from you and others countless times. I don't agree with it--nor do the creators and custodians of this forum when it comes to attacking other posters. This macho appeal to be a manly man and man up that I've read from you and others is so tired. There is really and truly nothing new to see here.

[Bart]

One last observation—I know there are a lot of folks on here who are parents of lacrosse players, and I don’t say with this with any snarkiness, but this is first and foremost a public forum, not a place promising deference to parents of players or players themselves. The FanLax charter specifically reads that this place is for all lacrosse fans. I think it’s unfair to try to make everybody fall in step with commentary that is approved and acceptable and inoffensive to parents.

In some sense, this I can agree with you ONW. What I find laughable is that while it is unfair to fall in step with commentary approved to be inoffensive to parents it is completely "fair" to chastise and moralize what an individual poster seems as "personally attacking" to his or her post. It is surmised that "attacking" a pseudoname is personal while a post may be "attacking" an actual person's child's, spouse, girlfriend or some other unknown close personal relationship. One is ok but the other not? Just seems silly to me.

I will say it again, post what you want. It really is up to the individual how he/she contributes here......but don't cry crocodile tears when someone punches back personally. Since we all, for the most part, respond using pseudonames we rarely know who is actually posting.

I've read this perspective from you and others countless times. I don't agree with it--nor do the creators and custodians of this forum when it comes to attacking other posters. This macho appeal to be a manly man and man up that I've read from you and others is so tired. There is really and truly nothing new to see here.

Macho appeal? Hardly...more like you want to shzit in your house deal with the smell....................

Put on your hall monitor's sash.....

[njbill]

Can, Paul Simon wrote a song about you:

“A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”

Here’s a great cover of the song.

https://www.google.com/search?q=paddyha ... A53do-m4Wk

I defy you to listen to this version without tapping your toes.

Loved that rendition

I got a kick that they changed “la la la” after the verse about the whores on Seventh Avenue to “ooh la la.” Funny.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Macho appeal? Hardly...more like you want to shzit in your house deal with the smell....................

Put on your hall monitor's sash.....

[DMac]

Macho appeal? Hardly...more like you want to shzit in your house deal with the smell....................

Put on your hall monitor's sash.....

This sums it up rather nicely.
Here admin comes in after a little whining and rids his house of any smell for him.
ONW's pappy would have said, that's what makes you you and me me about all this.
Frankly, my old man would've given me the back of his hand and a quick, harsh
lesson in manners and respect. But hey, that's what makes his pappy his pappy
and my old man my old man.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

[DMac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXiIx4OqcXw

[Can Opener]

Other than one or two of us, most posters here have stood by silently as posters have relentlessly criticized a young female athlete for many years to an extent that has never been seen before on these boards. Many of us coach young women and are deeply committed to growing the sport, so it’s puzzling that so few have spoken up to say: “Hey man, I get it that you think she’s selfish, but we all heard you the 20th time. Time to move on.”

You and NJBill can continue to butt heads on this but I am honestly curious what you meant by this? How one relates to growing the sport?

I think what you may be asking is: How can old farts ripping a high profile player and a couple of goalies in an obscure online forum slow the growth of women's lacrosse? Fair enough, Bart. There probably are not a lot of tween girls on FanLax who decide not to play U14 next spring because a couple of guys in Jersey may criticize them some day. On the other hand, we have seen the heartfelt reaction of the families whose daughters are unfairly singled out. That has more of a negative effect on how people perceive the game than a positive effect. To use a silly example, US Lacrosse magazine doesn't run a lot of cover stories about how terrible a certain player is at passing, how a young woman shows appalling disrespect for the game, or how bad the technique is of a national champion goalie. Their mission is to grow the sport and they have (rightly) concluded that ripping players in print runs counter to that mission. As you know, different sports carry different reputations, and those impact the future of participation. I would not want my daughter to pursue competitive tennis or gymnastics at a high level, for example. (I know many folks would like to disabuse me of the negative stereotypes surrounding those sports.) As lacrosse has matured and gained a higher profile, my personal view is that we are at an inflection point. More and more people are making money off lacrosse, including clubs, private specialty coaches, tournament owners, brands, media and even college players through NIL. My vision for the sport is that it should be welcoming and fun. Young girls should watch CN on Instagram or the national championship game and say: That's awesome. I want to do that. The atmosphere when BC hosted UNC last spring was one of the best I've ever seen in any sport. The place was packed with young girls going nuts over the best the sport has to offer. BC had to open extra sections of the football stadium to accommodate the crowds. If the "media" reaction at a place like FanLax chooses to dwell on CN's assists to shots ratio or her appalling level of disrespect or what a bad teammate she is, that doesn't foot with the experience in the stadium. In a minor way, that has a chilling effect on the growth of the sport.