All Things Russia & Ukraine

[Farfromgeneva]

That all makes sense to Americans, given our history & perspective.
It does not take root with the Russian people, given their history & perspective.

You think the Russian people are a monolith? Young Russians don't understand that Putin is yet another ***hole Russian fascist that's kept the Russian people away from the 1st world for over 100 years now?

All your prattle about Russia's GDP did not prevent them from invading Ukraine

Never said it would----you're putting words in my mouth, my man. Should I follow your lead and throw a hissy fit?

What I said was that they couldn't afford to do what they were trying to do.

...they're still awash in cash from energy sales at crisis prices.

Sure they are, OS. What was Russia's GDP when Putin took office? And what's it at now? And before the invasion, how many military assets did Russia have?

And how many do they have now, OS? Want me to post a pic of a Russian tank burned to a crisp?

How's your 401k doing ? How 'bout the price of your supplies & shipping ?

Good. It's killing my competitors. I'm doing great, thank you for asking. That's what happens when you spend your career making your operations more financially and environmentally stable. When energy prices go up? My competitors (most of them), who don't believe in such things, take it in the pants.

This war is producing a global recession, hurting Europe & the US a lot more than Russia.

Riiiiiight. Russia is thumbs up awesome right now, OS. What's your 20 year plan for Russia? Their armies are in tatters. How many missiles do they have left, OS.

You think this is all a joke that validates your liberal schoolboy reading of history.

Insults?



Alright. I typed out my insult. And deleted it. Out of my system now and we can move on.

Putin is writing history, in blood, from a different perspective.

No. He isn't. And I have no idea why it is that you keep projecting this nonsense on to Putin. This has nothing to do with Russian history.

Wait----I'm wrong: it has to do with Russian history. And by that I mean this is yet another Russian Fascist leader that simply trying to hold on to power. That's it. That's all this is about. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Anything else is overcomplicating what Putin has done....trying to put a square peg in a round hole, attempting to apply rationality to Putin's choices.

Keep laughing, you will need a morbid sense of humor before this is over.
Russia is mobilizing, full scale, for the first time since WW II. We minimize that at our own peril.
Russia is mobilizing for war & to you, it's just a stupid political debate.

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. I never said Putin wasn't dangerous. Or couldn't use nukes. Or couldn't kill hundreds of thousands of people if he chose to do so. I also never said I wasn't terrified of what Putin might do. I am indeed, scared.

What I said was---how does Putin expect to hold whatever territory he has gained?

And those piles of rubble as Putin hits civilian infrastructure? What money do you think Putin has to fix that damage, assuming he takes over that land?

The hilarious thing is: you see the light, and understand money when we're discussing America sending money to Ukraine. You think we can't spare that money. Yet at the same time? You think Putin is just rolling in cash, and invading Ukraine costs Putin nothing.

I guess these modern day Russians should be grateful they were not flipping off Stalin. Ole Joe would have dragged their their asses out into the middle of nowhere and executed them with no remorse. Vlad is nothing like his hero. Of course the jury is still out as to how Putin will deal with these rebellious rascals. If he decides to go Stalin on their asses it will get really ugly really quick. Maybe the Southern Poverty Law Center can talk some sense into Vlad...

Maybe we should send all the out of touch old rambos over there since they act like they have all the answers when in fact their frightened little girls about their own lives and futures. Fear is a powerful tool in international relations apparently…

Better yet we could compose a large book of all of your financial wisdom and wheeling and dealing that you have posted here on this forum. Their attempt at reading all of your wisdom would more than likely have put them into a catatonic state. Who needs Rambo types when we have you??? Your detrimental affect is more deadly and we don't have to fire a shot.

I've got too much value to this country to risk life over there. Why do you think we all are volunteering you to go over and earn some respect in this world.

[Farfromgeneva]

I imagine we’ll be seeing more of this…
Russia: man shoots commander drafting residents for war in Ukraine
According to a witness, the man shot the military commandant after he had given a “clumsy” pep talk for the men to go and fight in Ukraine. “Nobody is going to go anywhere,” the man said moments before opening fire, a witness told the Baikal People news outlet.

A half-dozen draft centres have been torched in arson attacks in the last week, and police made hundreds of arrests across the country in order to disperse local protests sparked by the announcement.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... SApp_Other

This is how they are rolling instead of war, about 2 min mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeCKn6t5KnI

[a fan]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

[kramerica.inc]

https://www.justsecurity.org/83244/earl ... r-26-2022/

Just a taste of the headlines:

Protests have erupted in Russia’s predominantly Muslim Dagestan region, as minorities claim they are being disproportionately targeted by Russian President Vladimir Putin’s mobilization orders.

Two senior Russian lawmakers have expressed concern over “excesses” in Putin’s mobilization drive, and have called on regional officials to correct any mistakes made when recruiting civilians.

A registration commissar is “fighting for his life” after being shot at a military enlistment office in southeastern Siberia, according to Russian authorities.

Russia’s mobilization effort includes forcing Ukrainians in occupied territories to fight against their own nation, according to Ukrainian officials.

Armed soldiers are going door-to-door in occupied parts of Ukraine to collect votes for sham “referendums” on joining Russia, Ukrainians have reported.

The U.S. has warned Russia that there will be “catastrophic consequences” if it uses nuclear weapons, national security adviser Jake Sullivan said during three interviews yesterday.

Two more mass graves have been discovered in Izium, northeast Ukraine, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told CBS in an interview yesterday.

Ukraine has warned of growing attacks by drones supplied to Russia by Iran.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

Mask slipped a long time ago. Folks thought I was being hard on Old Soviet…..seen it before.

[Brooklyn]

To be clear, there are a whole bunch of actual conservatives who are NOT these MAGA, white nationalist or Qanon radicals.

Not to say that anyone is immune from some hypocrisy, whether witting or unwitting, but you might consider not lumping all in a single bucket.

That might generally be true. But when it came to Nam, the CONS were all in lockstep. Bunch of f_____g hypocrites and pee bags.

[MDlaxfan76]

To be clear, there are a whole bunch of actual conservatives who are NOT these MAGA, white nationalist or Qanon radicals.

Not to say that anyone is immune from some hypocrisy, whether witting or unwitting, but you might consider not lumping all in a single bucket.

That might generally be true. But when it came to Nam, the CONS were all in lockstep. Bunch of f_____g hypocrites and pee bags.

mmm, some legitimately felt that the Soviet Union and Red China were an existential threat and that the best but horribly unfortunate policy for America was to oppose their expansion at each turn...

Doesn't mean they were right...much less excuse the anger at those who disagreed.

I can understand your ire.

[ardilla secreta]

Breaking News
Putin grants Russian citizenship to US whistleblower Edward Snowden

Prediction
In two weeks Snowden gets drafted and then sent to Ukraine

[DMac]

[Carroll81]

Breaking News
Putin grants Russian citizenship to US whistleblower Edward Snowden

Prediction
In two weeks Snowden gets drafted and then sent to Ukraine

Or accidentally falls off a balcony.

[old salt]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

Mask slipped a long time ago. Folks thought I was being hard on Old Soviet…..seen it before.

It's easy to be cavalier about going to war when it's somebody else, or their kids, who will be doing the fighting.

It's not worth prolonging this war to prevent Putin from taking back the Russian part of Ukraine which he currently holds.
If that had been the border when the USSR came apart there would not be this war.
Putin does not have the capacity to take more. Ukraine's independence is now guaranteed. Our job is done.
Putin's drawing his proposed border with these referendums.
The EUros already want a settlement. The US is prolonging the war.
Biden wants a settlement too. He just can't say it yet. That's why he's holding back on the weapons needed for an effective counteroffensive.
When there is a settlement, all you rabid war mongers will hail Biden as a statesman.

Russia is no longer the threat to world peace that the USSR was, ...unless we push them into a corner.
You jingoist fools, with your petty insults, just make me laugh.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

Mask slipped a long time ago. Folks thought I was being hard on Old Soviet…..seen it before.

It's easy to be cavalier about going to war when it's somebody else, or their kids, who will be doing the fighting.

It's not worth prolonging this war to prevent Putin from taking back the Russian part of Ukraine which he currently holds.
If that had been the border when the USSR came apart there would not be this war.
Putin does not have the capacity to take more. Ukraine's independence is now guaranteed. Our job is done.
Putin's drawing his proposed border with these referendums.
The EUros already want a settlement. The US is prolonging the war.
Biden wants a settlement too. He just can't say it yet. That's why he's holding back on the weapons needed for an effective counteroffensive.
When there is a settlement, all you rabid war mongers will hail Biden as a statesman.

Russia is no longer the threat to world peace that the USSR was, ...unless we push them into a corner.
You jingoist fools, with your petty insults, just make me laugh.

Me too!…..Mike Flynn can negotiate the treaty!

[Kismet]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

Mask slipped a long time ago. Folks thought I was being hard on Old Soviet…..seen it before.

It's easy to be cavalier about going to war when it's somebody else, or their kids, who will be doing the fighting.

It's not worth prolonging this war to prevent Putin from taking back the Russian part of Ukraine which he currently holds.
If that had been the border when the USSR came apart there would not be this war.
Putin does not have the capacity to take more. Ukraine's independence is now guaranteed. Our job is done.
Putin's drawing his proposed border with these referendums.
The EUros already want a settlement. The US is prolonging the war.
Biden wants a settlement too. He just can't say it yet. That's why he's holding back on the weapons needed for an effective counteroffensive.
When there is a settlement, all you rabid war mongers will hail Biden as a statesman.

Russia is no longer the threat to world peace that the USSR was, ...unless we push them into a corner.
You jingoist fools, with your petty insults, just make me laugh.

So on this premise alone, you agree with Obama's decisions to allow Putin to take Crimea and South Ossetia from Georgia?
Nice of you to change your mind.

and the Finns and Swedes are just being alarmist to want to join NATO?

Jingoist fools? really?

[Typical Lax Dad]

[Typical Lax Dad]

Ukraine is not without blame. Every nation has a responsibility to defend itself & to deter aggressors.
Ukraine was negligent in that regard.

Full on looney tunes. OS----this means that France and US et. al. were partially to blame for WWII instead of 100% of blame on Hirohito and Hitler. Because we weren't armed to the teeth, their invasions are on us?

And come on----how many countries could defend themselves against America or Russia, should we choose to invade? None, outside of nuclear powers.

And Ukraine gave that up in the interest of peace, and to decrease the likelihood of a rogue Ukrainian launch. Instead of respecting them for that, you're punishing them for this choice, and calling them stupid for doing that.

You're not making ANY sense here.

Ukraine is an artificial construct.

So is every nation that has ever existed, OS. What the heck are you talking about here?

Why then are these United States not an "artificial construct"? You should get a job writing for Lavrov.

Alaska is rightfully Russia.

Mask slipped a long time ago. Folks thought I was being hard on Old Soviet…..seen it before.

It's easy to be cavalier about going to war when it's somebody else, or their kids, who will be doing the fighting.

It's not worth prolonging this war to prevent Putin from taking back the Russian part of Ukraine which he currently holds.
If that had been the border when the USSR came apart there would not be this war.
Putin does not have the capacity to take more. Ukraine's independence is now guaranteed. Our job is done.
Putin's drawing his proposed border with these referendums.
The EUros already want a settlement. The US is prolonging the war.
Biden wants a settlement too. He just can't say it yet. That's why he's holding back on the weapons needed for an effective counteroffensive.
When there is a settlement, all you rabid war mongers will hail Biden as a statesman.

Russia is no longer the threat to world peace that the USSR was, ...unless we push them into a corner.
You jingoist fools, with your petty insults, just make me laugh.

So on this premise alone, you agree with Obama's decisions to allow Putin to take Crimea and South Ossetia from Georgia?
Nice of you to change your mind.

and the Finns and Swedes are just being alarmist to want to join NATO?

Jingoist fools? really?

Bring back the Grand Duchy of Finland!

[ardilla secreta]

I find this work haunting.

A39EE180-340E-4107-B425-D59D67247B66.jpeg (127.15 KiB) Viewed 461 times

Titled “Lost Childhood” and done in 2022 by Ukrainian artist Iryna Fedorenko now living in Munich. From a series called “Children of War”. I came across this while at the Columbus Museum of Art in July.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I find this work haunting.
A39EE180-340E-4107-B425-D59D67247B66.jpeg
Titled “Lost Childhood” and done in 2022 by Ukrainian artist Iryna Fedorenko now living in Munich. From a series called “Children of War”. I came across this while at the Columbus Museum of Art in July.

That’s fabulous

[MDlaxfan76]

Salty learned appeasement of war crimes is a good idea...

What do you propose we do about it ? Are you advocating the US intervene militarily to bring Putin, his Generals & soldiers to justice ?
...or do you hope to kill or displace the entire population of Ukraine in your quest ?

There's nothing to do militarily, imho. It's all about how we handle these countries economically. If the EU pulls their act together, and gets other energy sources, and shuts of trade with Putin....that's it. That's the message. It doesn't HAVE to be today. It can be in a few years. But if the world of trade disappears for Putin/Russia? That's all the message that needs to be sent.

But the biggest thing, is the US needs to make Ukraine their #1 trading partner. They do that? The message will be crystal clear as Ukraine catapults to G8 status, and Russia's GDP will continue to be at or below where it was when Putin took power.

Just lay down and surrender the country to Putin.

He can't take the country militarily. And I don't see how he can hold what he has.

Do you see any other option other than: send in US Troops, and annihilate Russian forces, and deal what whatever crazy response Putin chooses?

We had our chance. If our intent was to militarily defend Ukraine from Putin? We should have parked our troops there a couple of decades ago. Problem solved. That was never our intent.

So we're left with: what now? And to me, money is power. Kill Putin and his country financially, and reward Ukraine.....and watch Ukraine sail past the standard of living in Russia. Can't see any other option. Can you?

You don't think he can hold what he has ? Despite the rah rah in our media, everytime you see a map, the red stain in the S & SE is spreading. Russia now holds all the land S of the Dnieper river, including the 2 bridges connecting to the N shore of the Dnieper. They now hold the land bridge connecting Russia & Donbass to Crimea. To expel them, the Ukrainians would have to fight their way across that wide Dnieper river basin, without air or naval support. Our media is not giving us specific casualty figures, beyond grudgingly admitting that casualties are high, on both sides, in the fighting in the E.

Waiting for your method to work, there won't be much worth left of Ukraine worth saving. Russia can turn all of SE & S Ukraine (the most productive parts) into rubble, like Syria, while driving out the population. He can threaten the entire country with missile & air strikes with impunity. Disrupting global markets in energy, ag & resources.

We might be able to arm Ukraine enough to reach a stalemate on the ground, but it will take a decade to get them to the point where they can contest the airspace or sea access. Even IF our reluctant EU allies were willing to give up all their Migs & S-300's (which they are not), that's still insufficient to deter Russian missile & air strikes, or to provide close air support. It would be a challenge for the US & NATO to enforce a no fly zone, even if we tried to fill the skies with F-35's (which would be based where ?)... & we can't get naval forces into the Black Sea, where they'd be penned up like sitting ducks anyway.

We are playing a cynical game, arming our Ukrainian proxies to degrade Russia's military strength, with no realistic hope of victory.
The West needs to force both Zelensky & Putin to the negotiating table to force a cease fire. Our NATO allies are still reluctantly following our lead, but those closest & most immediately threatened (the EU allies) are not as triumphal or jingoistic as the US & UK.

Your prior defeatism.