January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[old salt]

Just so i understand youth, you mean that if the forces outside the Capitol were more firm, were better armed, were more organized or more competent or more forceful in their protection of the Capitol building, that there wouldn't have been a riot, there would have been no insurrection? They wouldn't have entered the building so there would've been no crime? Its more the fault of the people protecting the Capitol building for ALLOWING this to happen that caused all this uproar? More robust prevention procedures and all this would've blown away in the wind?

The people protecting the Capitol building should have saved these people from themselves?
No, they should have been prepared, equipped & deployed in sufficient number to prevent entry , damage & the threat to the safety of those inside. Like the overly militaristic measures taken to protect the WH, Laf Park & Fed DC the previous Mem Day.

Seems that you're attempting to steer us to a hypothetical that is unknowable. All the "what-ifs" that will crop up if there had been 5,000 heavily armed troops at the Capitol that day...sure, there would be a different narrative at this point.
Visible sniper teams appearing on the roof would have been sufficient. Dropping a few in the first wave with rubber bullets would have stemmed the surge. Recall the DC NG helo hovering over the rioters dispersing them with rotorwash. The rest of the world uses water cannons or fire hoses.

Let's say they kept the screaming meemee's outside the Capitol that day (here we go with the hypotheticals)...sounds like that would have cleared the way for the Green Bay Sweep...if only Pence had been willing...right? A MUCH more thoughtful and less violent over-turning of a duly held election...yes? You object when the term "duly" gets applied to an election your team loses? Seems like there's no end to that circular firing squad.
that assumes a compliant VP & majorities in each chamber, so reform the ECA.

Overall, are you OK with all this? In some future dystopia when the Dems are fully in control, you'd be OK with them running the Green Bay Sweep to close out a contested win by the R's? You see what i mean? Reform the ECA.

..

[old salt]

Let me say, at risk of offending you (again?!), that It's all bullsh*t I think the focus on Capitol security is plainly intended to take the focus off the fact (1) that the President, with the complicit efforts of many Congressmen and Staff, incited a riot, and (2) the GOP thereafter voted (the same day), save for ten Congressmen and -women, for what the rioters wanted; and (3) that the GOP thereafter kowtowed to the Moron when they might have tossed him in the gutter where he and his family belong. Any parent understands establishing boundaries. Any person should understand that condoning the assault -- its impetus and actions -- will obliterate the boundaries, and that the boundaries are called "democracy."

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

2 things can be true at the same time. Both need to be considered & fixed.
Reform the ECA. Give the CP what they need & let them do their job.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just so i understand youth, you mean that if the forces outside the Capitol were more firm, were better armed, were more organized or more competent or more forceful in their protection of the Capitol building, that there wouldn't have been a riot, there would have been no insurrection? They wouldn't have entered the building so there would've been no crime? Its more the fault of the people protecting the Capitol building for ALLOWING this to happen that caused all this uproar? More robust prevention procedures and all this would've blown away in the wind?

The people protecting the Capitol building should have saved these people from themselves?
No, they should have been prepared, equipped & deployed in sufficient number to prevent entry , damage & the threat to the safety of those inside. Like the overly militaristic measures taken to protect the WH, Laf Park & Fed DC the previous Mem Day.

Seems that you're attempting to steer us to a hypothetical that is unknowable. All the "what-ifs" that will crop up if there had been 5,000 heavily armed troops at the Capitol that day...sure, there would be a different narrative at this point.
Visible sniper teams appearing on the roof would have been sufficient. Dropping a few in the first wave with rubber bullets would have stemmed the surge. Recall the DC NG helo hovering over the rioters dispersing them with rotorwash. The rest of the world uses water cannons or fire hoses.

Let's say they kept the screaming meemee's outside the Capitol that day (here we go with the hypotheticals)...sounds like that would have cleared the way for the Green Bay Sweep...if only Pence had been willing...right? A MUCH more thoughtful and less violent over-turning of a duly held election...yes? You object when the term "duly" gets applied to an election your team loses? Seems like there's no end to that circular firing squad.
that assumes a compliant VP & majorities in each chamber, so reform the ECA.

Overall, are you OK with all this? In some future dystopia when the Dems are fully in control, you'd be OK with them running the Green Bay Sweep to close out a contested win by the R's? You see what i mean? Reform the ECA.

..

No, the compliant VP would have been sufficient to throw it either back to the state legislatures or directly to the House which would have been an automatic GOP win, given the way its structured state by state as equal votes.

Not a sufficient fix and no one should be fooled into buying the baloney otherwise.

Quite agree that a stronger police capability clearly was needed, given the rather extraordinary circumstances, which, unfortunately could well happen again...BTW, expect much worse if the hard right actually does try to end democracy by ignoring the actual voters.

[cradleandshoot]

Just so i understand youth, you mean that if the forces outside the Capitol were more firm, were better armed, were more organized or more competent or more forceful in their protection of the Capitol building, that there wouldn't have been a riot, there would have been no insurrection? They wouldn't have entered the building so there would've been no crime? Its more the fault of the people protecting the Capitol building for ALLOWING this to happen that caused all this uproar? More robust prevention procedures and all this would've blown away in the wind?

The people protecting the Capitol building should have saved these people from themselves?
No, they should have been prepared, equipped & deployed in sufficient number to prevent entry , damage & the threat to the safety of those inside. Like the overly militaristic measures taken to protect the WH, Laf Park & Fed DC the previous Mem Day.

Seems that you're attempting to steer us to a hypothetical that is unknowable. All the "what-ifs" that will crop up if there had been 5,000 heavily armed troops at the Capitol that day...sure, there would be a different narrative at this point.
Visible sniper teams appearing on the roof would have been sufficient. Dropping a few in the first wave with rubber bullets would have stemmed the surge. Recall the DC NG helo hovering over the rioters dispersing them with rotorwash. The rest of the world uses water cannons or fire hoses.

Let's say they kept the screaming meemee's outside the Capitol that day (here we go with the hypotheticals)...sounds like that would have cleared the way for the Green Bay Sweep...if only Pence had been willing...right? A MUCH more thoughtful and less violent over-turning of a duly held election...yes? You object when the term "duly" gets applied to an election your team loses? Seems like there's no end to that circular firing squad.
that assumes a compliant VP & majorities in each chamber, so reform the ECA.

Overall, are you OK with all this? In some future dystopia when the Dems are fully in control, you'd be OK with them running the Green Bay Sweep to close out a contested win by the R's? You see what i mean? Reform the ECA.

..

No, the compliant VP would have been sufficient to throw it either back to the state legislatures or directly to the House which would have been an automatic GOP win, given the way its structured state by state as equal votes.

Not a sufficient fix and no one should be fooled into buying the baloney otherwise.

Quite agree that a stronger police capability clearly was needed, given the rather extraordinary circumstances, which, unfortunately could well happen again...BTW, expect much worse if the hard right actually does try to end democracy by ignoring the actual voters.

Why didn't Nancy Pelosi sign off on the extra security? She knew before hand there was an angry horde of Trump supporters having a rally in DC on 1/6. Given her distrust and distaste for trump people she could have had a 1000 NG troops surrounding the Capital. Trump signed off on that 2 days before did he not? Check that, no proof did or did not. That depends on what side you believe.

[get it to x]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

[get it to x]

San Fran Nan was all in on the occupation of a capitol almost ten years ago.

https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi/statu ... wsrc%5Etfw

[MDlaxfan76]

Just so i understand youth, you mean that if the forces outside the Capitol were more firm, were better armed, were more organized or more competent or more forceful in their protection of the Capitol building, that there wouldn't have been a riot, there would have been no insurrection? They wouldn't have entered the building so there would've been no crime? Its more the fault of the people protecting the Capitol building for ALLOWING this to happen that caused all this uproar? More robust prevention procedures and all this would've blown away in the wind?

The people protecting the Capitol building should have saved these people from themselves?
No, they should have been prepared, equipped & deployed in sufficient number to prevent entry , damage & the threat to the safety of those inside. Like the overly militaristic measures taken to protect the WH, Laf Park & Fed DC the previous Mem Day.

Seems that you're attempting to steer us to a hypothetical that is unknowable. All the "what-ifs" that will crop up if there had been 5,000 heavily armed troops at the Capitol that day...sure, there would be a different narrative at this point.
Visible sniper teams appearing on the roof would have been sufficient. Dropping a few in the first wave with rubber bullets would have stemmed the surge. Recall the DC NG helo hovering over the rioters dispersing them with rotorwash. The rest of the world uses water cannons or fire hoses.

Let's say they kept the screaming meemee's outside the Capitol that day (here we go with the hypotheticals)...sounds like that would have cleared the way for the Green Bay Sweep...if only Pence had been willing...right? A MUCH more thoughtful and less violent over-turning of a duly held election...yes? You object when the term "duly" gets applied to an election your team loses? Seems like there's no end to that circular firing squad.
that assumes a compliant VP & majorities in each chamber, so reform the ECA.

Overall, are you OK with all this? In some future dystopia when the Dems are fully in control, you'd be OK with them running the Green Bay Sweep to close out a contested win by the R's? You see what i mean? Reform the ECA.

..

No, the compliant VP would have been sufficient to throw it either back to the state legislatures or directly to the House which would have been an automatic GOP win, given the way its structured state by state as equal votes.

Not a sufficient fix and no one should be fooled into buying the baloney otherwise.

Quite agree that a stronger police capability clearly was needed, given the rather extraordinary circumstances, which, unfortunately could well happen again...BTW, expect much worse if the hard right actually does try to end democracy by ignoring the actual voters.

Why didn't Nancy Pelosi sign off on the extra security? She knew before hand there was an angry horde of Trump supporters having a rally in DC on 1/6. Given her distrust and distaste for trump people she could have had a 1000 NG troops surrounding the Capital. Trump signed off on that 2 days before did he not? Check that, no proof did or did not. That depends on what side you believe.

Again, failure of imagination is the best explanation for all this, though to be clear Pelosi and Schumer were not in that chain of authority, nor was there a recommendation for such increased security. It's interesting that one group apparently did take it more seriously and had mobilized to be available...there's definitely more to learn about what various people knew and thought and did, anticipating various scenarios.

Here's your current Capitol Police Board. https://www.uscp.gov/the-department/ove ... lice-board

No, Trump didn't sign off on anything...he made a comment about needing 10,000 troops for crowd control, given his expectation of a much bigger crowd than actually came, but others thought that was hyperbole, others were concerned that he wanted the troops in order to call for martial law...conflicting stories on all that...but no order...no approval of anything either.

Definitely more to learn.

[MDlaxfan76]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Wow, thanks for telling us, again, who you are.

[get it to x]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Wow, thanks for telling us, again, who you are.

If you're so certain, who am I? I think you would be a little shocked. Going to "Game Night" tonight at a gay couples home in the neighborhood and people of color, since you're so interested in who I hang with, will likely be well in excess of the general population. But they don't obsess over their immutable characteristics. More like whether you root for Clemson or USC.

[MDlaxfan76]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Wow, thanks for telling us, again, who you are.

If you're so certain, who am I? I think you would be a little shocked. Going to "Game Night" tonight at a gay couples home in the neighborhood and people of color, since you're so interested in who I hang with, will likely be well in excess of the general population. But they don't obsess over their immutable characteristics. More like whether you root for Clemson or USC.

You've made it very clear, repeatedly...here's a thought, read what you just wrote to your hosts and fellow guests tonight...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Just ask Michael The Black Man.

[get it to x]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Just ask Michael The Black Man.

Easy (and lazy) of both of you to accuse someone of something they can't prove or disprove on a forum. If you knew Michael you would be the ones apologizing. See how that works?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Just ask Michael The Black Man.

Easy (and lazy) of both of you to accuse someone of something they can't prove or disprove on a forum. If you knew Michael you would be the ones apologizing. See how that works?

What did I accuse you of?

[MDlaxfan76]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Just ask Michael The Black Man.

Easy (and lazy) of both of you to accuse someone of something they can't prove or disprove on a forum. If you knew Michael you would be the ones apologizing. See how that works?

What did I accuse you of?

And I repeat, read exactly what you wrote to your hosts and fellow guests tonight and get their feedback. Should be a heck of a conversation starter...

[smoova]

Could this dude have been around the DNC and RNC that day? Maybe, but he sure was targeting Republicans the other day. A front line soldier of the left who lives in Mom and Dad's spare bedroom.

https://thepostmillennial.com/alleged-a ... aign=64487

This group has been the center of much of the violence and anarchy for the last decade, yet we have a whole host of people on this forum who think the KKK is still some kind of threat. I can tell you most of my friends of any color think the KKK has been laughed off the stage. White progressives are actually the biggest threat to black and brown people. They keep treating them like special needs kids who can't accomplish anything because of "systemic racism". Many blacks are telling them to "Please stop helping me!".

Just ask Michael The Black Man.

Easy (and lazy) of both of you to accuse someone of something they can't prove or disprove on a forum. If you knew Michael you would be the ones apologizing. See how that works?

What did I accuse you of?

Being himself?

[SCLaxAttack]

Interesting analysis on DW News of the > 700 rioters who were arrested on Jan 6, by U of Chicago Prof Robert Pape :

87 % no previous links to a militia or other violent group
86 % employed
7 % unemployed
52 % from counties comfortably won by Joe Biden

" ...they are part of mainstream America,...not from the margins of society...many of these folks have much to lose, don't normally take risks..."

Based on the court records of only those arrested.

Not having seen (or heard?) the DW News piece to which you refer I don’t know if you’ve left out a key portion of Pape’s analysis because it wasn’t included or because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I heard Pape on NPR earlier this week. While all the stats you quote are correct in general if not exactly according to his study, he stated this info is at first surprising until evaluation of underlying demographics.

As part of his study on where these insurrectionists (my word) came from, he found many of the pro-Biden counties had the largest population shifts in the country from majority white to a less plurality white and even to minority white.

He was more diplomatic than I’ll now be. He didn’t come right out and connect the dots, but it was pretty obvious where he believes the data leads. Yep, the Jan 6 insurrection is all about white privilege. The GOP has lost its collective mind. The lion’s share of those arrested are p-oed that their previous white majority, and all that means to and for them, is fading fast in the areas where they live.

All the usual folk can now come out and criticize the study as being typical far left junk by some intellectual wannabe from a known liberal university almost as bad as Berkeley. That’s how this works, right?

...those were the only stats cited, they were on the screen -- excerpts were what Pape said he found surprising.

All he said is also in here :

/www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-un ... ry-2-2022/
MARGARET BRENNAN: We want to take a closer look now at the 725 people who've been charged for their roles in the attack on the Capitol. Who are these individuals? And what can we learn from their backgrounds that can help us understand the political violence that we saw that day on January 6? Joining us now is Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago. Professor, I know you've studied insurgencies in war zones. You're working with the Pentagon now, I mean, you're looking at what is happening in the United States. And one of the things that was chilling to me was that you found the majority of those who attacked were not affiliated with any organized militia; they were everyday people.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PROFESSOR ROBERT PAPE: Exactly right, MARGARET, what we're seeing is a movement that is a mainstream movement, not simply confined to fringe elements. And this is important, because we're so used to thinking of right wing extremism, or really extremism in general as part of the fringe. They're just a tiny fraction of America, less than 1%, and they come from people that are economically destitute, many often unemployed. Well, that's not what our studies of the Jan. 6,- those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 show, or the studies of the insurrection of sentiment in the country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And what you found is that some of these people were- were business owners, they were employed. These were people who had something to lose. They were putting things at risk when they went to Washington and carried out this violence.

PAPE: Absolutely. A very striking finding is their economic profile, over half of the 700 who broke into the Capitol had been arrested so far for breaking into the Capitol are business owners, CEOs from white collar occupations, doctors, lawyers, architects and accountants. Only 7% were unemployed at the time of their Jan. 6 insurrection, nearly the national average. This is very different than we're used to seeing from right wing extremists, where typically 25%, 30% of right wing violent offenders are unemployed and virtually none are CEOs or business owners. Further, if we look at their relationship to the militia groups, so only 13% of those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 were members of militia groups like the Oath Keepers were extremist groups like the Proud Boys. That means not- nearly 90% were not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So if these people believe in what they were doing, who are they getting their information from? How could they truly put everything on the line and carry out this violence? Like who is telling them what to do?

PAPE: Well, we can see their media consumption from a-a surveys that we've done after our studies of who broke into the Capitol we find that fully 21 million people believe two radical beliefs in America today: one that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president, and two that the use of force to restore Donald Trump to the presidency is justified. And their media sources of those 21 million, they come from 42% of the 21 million their main media source is Fox News, Newsmax, One America that is mainstream conservative news. Their second most prominent news source is actually liberal and centrist media like CNN, NPR, CBS. And you might say, Well, how could that be? It's because often when people watch ideas they disagree with, that makes them angry. Only 10% of the 21 million are getting their news, mainly from right wing social media like Gab or Telegram.

MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden has said that he believes racism was a key part of the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6. Have you seen anything that bears that out to be true?

PAPE: Race is an element and race is a driver. So when we look at the counties that the 700 who broke into the Capitol came from, where they live, what we see is over half live in counties that Joe Biden won. They don't mainly come from the reddest parts of America. They're coming from San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, Houston and Dallas. Further, when we look at the key characteristic of why some counties and not others, what we see is the counties that sent the insurrectionists are the counties losing the most white population. Well, that dovetails with this right wing conspiracy theory that used to be part of the fringe called the great replacement. The idea that whites are being replaced. This idea is also that the Democratic Party is doing this deliberately. Well, that idea now is voiced by mainstream political leaders, by mainstream media figures, embraced full throttle.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So what are the triggers that you are watching, because I know you have said in the past this isn't just about violence in Washington, you could see sparks of violence in Atlanta, Georgia, in other major cities. What is the trigger?

PAPE: That's exactly right. So what we're seeing in our surveys are national surveys. Of the 21 million in the insurrectionists movement is a massive combustible material, think of it as like dry wood that can be set off from a lightning strike or a spark, as in wildfires. Well, we're moving into a highly volatile 2022 election season, where there could be many sparks at the local levels and a lot of our election laws, say Georgia or Texas, the counting of the vote has been more politicized than ever before. What that does is it creates a very dangerous season which means as we go through the 2022 election season, it's crucial to have dialogue with our political leaders, our community leaders, especially the White House, over this new empirical reality.

As far as being p.o.'d minority whites = that's supposition unsupported by facts, based on the demo of their home county.
Replacement theory ? How long have (D)'s been shouting whites are the new, growing, inevitable minority.

Again, they were only from among the 725 arrested. No breakdown of violent or assault vs just trespass.
the surprise -- they're successful, mainstream, independent. Not society's losers, nor all fringe RW or Q militants.

I referred to his comments on NPR, not Face the Nation.

They're also seditionist morons. You forgot that part.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Interesting analysis on DW News of the > 700 rioters who were arrested on Jan 6, by U of Chicago Prof Robert Pape :

87 % no previous links to a militia or other violent group
86 % employed
7 % unemployed
52 % from counties comfortably won by Joe Biden

" ...they are part of mainstream America,...not from the margins of society...many of these folks have much to lose, don't normally take risks..."

Based on the court records of only those arrested.

Not having seen (or heard?) the DW News piece to which you refer I don’t know if you’ve left out a key portion of Pape’s analysis because it wasn’t included or because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I heard Pape on NPR earlier this week. While all the stats you quote are correct in general if not exactly according to his study, he stated this info is at first surprising until evaluation of underlying demographics.

As part of his study on where these insurrectionists (my word) came from, he found many of the pro-Biden counties had the largest population shifts in the country from majority white to a less plurality white and even to minority white.

He was more diplomatic than I’ll now be. He didn’t come right out and connect the dots, but it was pretty obvious where he believes the data leads. Yep, the Jan 6 insurrection is all about white privilege. The GOP has lost its collective mind. The lion’s share of those arrested are p-oed that their previous white majority, and all that means to and for them, is fading fast in the areas where they live.

All the usual folk can now come out and criticize the study as being typical far left junk by some intellectual wannabe from a known liberal university almost as bad as Berkeley. That’s how this works, right?

...those were the only stats cited, they were on the screen -- excerpts were what Pape said he found surprising.

All he said is also in here :

/www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-un ... ry-2-2022/
MARGARET BRENNAN: We want to take a closer look now at the 725 people who've been charged for their roles in the attack on the Capitol. Who are these individuals? And what can we learn from their backgrounds that can help us understand the political violence that we saw that day on January 6? Joining us now is Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago. Professor, I know you've studied insurgencies in war zones. You're working with the Pentagon now, I mean, you're looking at what is happening in the United States. And one of the things that was chilling to me was that you found the majority of those who attacked were not affiliated with any organized militia; they were everyday people.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PROFESSOR ROBERT PAPE: Exactly right, MARGARET, what we're seeing is a movement that is a mainstream movement, not simply confined to fringe elements. And this is important, because we're so used to thinking of right wing extremism, or really extremism in general as part of the fringe. They're just a tiny fraction of America, less than 1%, and they come from people that are economically destitute, many often unemployed. Well, that's not what our studies of the Jan. 6,- those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 show, or the studies of the insurrection of sentiment in the country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And what you found is that some of these people were- were business owners, they were employed. These were people who had something to lose. They were putting things at risk when they went to Washington and carried out this violence.

PAPE: Absolutely. A very striking finding is their economic profile, over half of the 700 who broke into the Capitol had been arrested so far for breaking into the Capitol are business owners, CEOs from white collar occupations, doctors, lawyers, architects and accountants. Only 7% were unemployed at the time of their Jan. 6 insurrection, nearly the national average. This is very different than we're used to seeing from right wing extremists, where typically 25%, 30% of right wing violent offenders are unemployed and virtually none are CEOs or business owners. Further, if we look at their relationship to the militia groups, so only 13% of those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 were members of militia groups like the Oath Keepers were extremist groups like the Proud Boys. That means not- nearly 90% were not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So if these people believe in what they were doing, who are they getting their information from? How could they truly put everything on the line and carry out this violence? Like who is telling them what to do?

PAPE: Well, we can see their media consumption from a-a surveys that we've done after our studies of who broke into the Capitol we find that fully 21 million people believe two radical beliefs in America today: one that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president, and two that the use of force to restore Donald Trump to the presidency is justified. And their media sources of those 21 million, they come from 42% of the 21 million their main media source is Fox News, Newsmax, One America that is mainstream conservative news. Their second most prominent news source is actually liberal and centrist media like CNN, NPR, CBS. And you might say, Well, how could that be? It's because often when people watch ideas they disagree with, that makes them angry. Only 10% of the 21 million are getting their news, mainly from right wing social media like Gab or Telegram.

MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden has said that he believes racism was a key part of the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6. Have you seen anything that bears that out to be true?

PAPE: Race is an element and race is a driver. So when we look at the counties that the 700 who broke into the Capitol came from, where they live, what we see is over half live in counties that Joe Biden won. They don't mainly come from the reddest parts of America. They're coming from San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, Houston and Dallas. Further, when we look at the key characteristic of why some counties and not others, what we see is the counties that sent the insurrectionists are the counties losing the most white population. Well, that dovetails with this right wing conspiracy theory that used to be part of the fringe called the great replacement. The idea that whites are being replaced. This idea is also that the Democratic Party is doing this deliberately. Well, that idea now is voiced by mainstream political leaders, by mainstream media figures, embraced full throttle.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So what are the triggers that you are watching, because I know you have said in the past this isn't just about violence in Washington, you could see sparks of violence in Atlanta, Georgia, in other major cities. What is the trigger?

PAPE: That's exactly right. So what we're seeing in our surveys are national surveys. Of the 21 million in the insurrectionists movement is a massive combustible material, think of it as like dry wood that can be set off from a lightning strike or a spark, as in wildfires. Well, we're moving into a highly volatile 2022 election season, where there could be many sparks at the local levels and a lot of our election laws, say Georgia or Texas, the counting of the vote has been more politicized than ever before. What that does is it creates a very dangerous season which means as we go through the 2022 election season, it's crucial to have dialogue with our political leaders, our community leaders, especially the White House, over this new empirical reality.

As far as being p.o.'d minority whites = that's supposition unsupported by facts, based on the demo of their home county.
Replacement theory ? How long have (D)'s been shouting whites are the new, growing, inevitable minority.

Again, they were only from among the 725 arrested. No breakdown of violent or assault vs just trespass.
the surprise -- they're successful, mainstream, independent. Not society's losers, nor all fringe RW or Q militants.

I referred to his comments on NPR, not Face the Nation.

They're also seditionist morons. You forgot that part.

Old Salt is fighting the good fight.

[a fan]

The U.S. may have happy feet when it comes to omicron. Picture is looking less rosy than earlier in Europe. A number of infectious disease and epidemiology experts are warning that we are not following the curves seen in Europe and South Africa. We are looking worse. It will be at least a week to a couple more weeks before we have a clear picture of how bad it will be.

Anyone checked in on what the flu is up to this season?

we've got omicron. it's like the flu.

If you are vaccinated.

Well, if the last month or so has taught us nothing else, we've learned that if you can stand in line for hours to get a test it's now safe to vote in person.

So again, why don't Republicans eliminate absentee ballots? Aren't you the least bit curious as to why they're not doing that?

[get it to x]

The U.S. may have happy feet when it comes to omicron. Picture is looking less rosy than earlier in Europe. A number of infectious disease and epidemiology experts are warning that we are not following the curves seen in Europe and South Africa. We are looking worse. It will be at least a week to a couple more weeks before we have a clear picture of how bad it will be.

Anyone checked in on what the flu is up to this season?

we've got omicron. it's like the flu.

If you are vaccinated.

Well, if the last month or so has taught us nothing else, we've learned that if you can stand in line for hours to get a test it's now safe to vote in person.

So again, why don't Republicans eliminate absentee ballots? Aren't you the least bit curious as to why they're not doing that?

Absentee ballots are essential. My infirm father got his vote in every year. Happy to provide an absentee ballot to any eligible voter requesting it, providing verification of who they are and getting it mailed in on time. Not happy to mail ballots out that were not requested, without chain of custody and security measures to vacant lots. There's a difference.

The sentiment from the left is there is little to no voter fraud. On the right, there is a significant percentage who think cheating is endemic. Would we all be comfortable, since the right to vote is sacred, if we made the minimum sentence for election fraud 5 years with no parole? What is worse, stealing my vote or smash and grab at Louis Vuitton?

[a fan]

Absentee ballots are essential. My infirm father got his vote in every year. Happy to provide an absentee ballot to any eligible voter requesting it, providing verification of who they are and getting it mailed in on time. Not happy to mail ballots out that were not requested, without chain of custody and security measures to vacant lots. There's a difference.

Which State sent out ballots without requests?

The sentiment from the left is there is little to no voter fraud. On the right, there is a significant percentage who think cheating is endemic.

Which is why I don't understand why I can't find a single Republican voter who wants in-person voting only. Doubly so when you guys keep telling us how easy it is to vote in person.

If I thought cheating was real? I'd be flipping out, and INSISTING that all voting happen in person, ID in hand, and with police at every door.

I do NOT understand why Republicans don't feel the same way----it tells me that they don't REALLY think that cheating is happening. They're complaining to complain.

Would we all be comfortable, since the right to vote is sacred, if we made the minimum sentence for election fraud 5 years with no parole? What is worse, stealing my vote or smash and grab at Louis Vuitton?

I'd be behind that, without question. And i wish there was a penalty for claiming voter fraud without direct evidence verified in court....can't do that, obviously.