January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[youthathletics]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

I'm having trouble parsing this...can you re-state please?

We can walk and chew gun. Why has the video not been gone over with a fine tooth comb. Clearly out security was effed that day...why? Maybe video will reveal something telling...hell I can think of plenty crazy things that could have transpired.

[dislaxxic]

Just so i understand youth, you mean that if the forces outside the Capitol were more firm, were better armed, were more organized or more competent or more forceful in their protection of the Capitol building, that there wouldn't have been a riot, there would have been no insurrection? They wouldn't have entered the building so there would've been no crime? Its more the fault of the people protecting the Capitol building for ALLOWING this to happen that caused all this uproar? More robust prevention procedures and all this would've blown away in the wind?

The people protecting the Capitol building should have saved these people from themselves?

Seems that you're attempting to steer us to a hypothetical that is unknowable. All the "what-ifs" that will crop up if there had been 5,000 heavily armed troops at the Capitol that day...sure, there would be a different narrative at this point.

Let's say they kept the screaming meemee's outside the Capitol that day (here we go with the hypotheticals)...sounds like that would have cleared the way for the Green Bay Sweep...if only Pence had been willing...right? A MUCH more thoughtful and less violent over-turning of a duly held election...yes? You object when the term "duly" gets applied to an election your team loses? Seems like there's no end to that circular firing squad.

Overall, are you OK with all this? In some future dystopia when the Dems are fully in control, you'd be OK with them running the Green Bay Sweep to close out a contested win by the R's? You see what i mean?

..

[seacoaster]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

[youthathletics]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

Thanks for clarifying. I just trust we learned our lesson, or hope so, and am more concerned, at this point on the processes of why we had such a breakdown to completely squash this before it even happened.

[seacoaster]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

Thanks for clarifying. I just trust we learned our lesson, or hope so, and am more concerned, at this point on the processes of why we had such a breakdown to completely squash this before it even happened.

Let me say, at risk of offending you (again?!), that It's all bullsh*t I think the focus on Capitol security is plainly intended to take the focus off the fact (1) that the President, with the complicit efforts of many Congressmen and Staff, incited a riot, and (2) the GOP thereafter voted (the same day), save for ten Congressmen and -women, for what the rioters wanted; and (3) that the GOP thereafter kowtowed to the Moron when they might have tossed him in the gutter where he and his family belong. Any parent understands establishing boundaries. Any person should understand that condoning the assault -- its impetus and actions -- will obliterate the boundaries, and that the boundaries are called "democracy."

[youthathletics]

Let me say, at risk of offending you (again?!), that It's all bullsh*t I think the focus on Capitol security is plainly intended to take the focus off the fact (1) that the President, with the complicit efforts of many Congressmen and Staff, incited a riot, and (2) the GOP thereafter voted (the same day), save for ten Congressmen and -women, for what the rioters wanted; and (3) that the GOP thereafter kowtowed to the Moron when they might have tossed him in the gutter where he and his family belong. Any parent understands establishing boundaries. Any person should understand that condoning the assault -- its impetus and actions -- will obliterate the boundaries, and that the boundaries are called "democracy."

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

Thanks for clarifying. I just trust we learned our lesson, or hope so, and am more concerned, at this point on the processes of why we had such a breakdown to completely squash this before it even happened.

BS….if your lacrosse team attacked players and coaches on the other team, the response won’t be “we should have had procedures in place to avoid it” versus investigating you and your staff for instigating it…. You would have been fired along with your assistants for goading your players. Stop acting stupid.

[youthathletics]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

Thanks for clarifying. I just trust we learned our lesson, or hope so, and am more concerned, at this point on the processes of why we had such a breakdown to completely squash this before it even happened.

BS….if your lacrosse team attacked players and coaches on the other team, the response won’t be “we should have had procedures in place to avoid it” versus investigating you and your staff for instigating it…. You would have been fired along with your assistants for goading your players. Stop acting stupid.

BS back at ya.....my lacrosse team does not have security on standby each game for that very issue. Use your head for something besides a hat rack.

[dislaxxic]

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

So, tell us what you think of what Peter Navarro says about the Green Bay Sweep? Is THAT a "process" that you view as reasonable? Set aside the riot swirling around outside for the moment...are you in agreement that the whole thing maybe SHOULD have been sent back to the states on J6?

..

[Typical Lax Dad]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

Of course, I am not sure what you actually mean here. But I am not unconcerned about the failure in protection on that day. I do believe that that issue is secondary or tertiary to the issue of a President, having lost the election and three dozen court cases and every recount, could have asked for a violent disruption of the certification of the election and electoral votes. As a nation, we once could rely on the notion that no one would ever think of storming (literally) the walls of Congress, or that a subgroup who disagreed with the election results would resort to violence to enter the Capitol and impede legislators from carrying out these sorts of administrative functions.

Not any more. Whether you want to admit it or not, we have one party that now condones -- by this remarkable attempt to rewrite history that exists in real-time video for all to see -- extrapolitical direct action to change the result of an election. Democracy seems to me to be the first thing on the triage priority here.

Thanks for clarifying. I just trust we learned our lesson, or hope so, and am more concerned, at this point on the processes of why we had such a breakdown to completely squash this before it even happened.

BS….if your lacrosse team attacked players and coaches on the other team, the response won’t be “we should have had procedures in place to avoid it” versus investigating you and your staff for instigating it…. You would have been fired along with your assistants for goading your players. Stop acting stupid.

BS back at ya.....my lacrosse team does not have security on standby each game for that very issue. Use your head for something besides a hat rack.

I have seen security at plenty of HS sporting events. Substitute “your lacrosse team” with a basketball team from Baltimore. You know what I mean. You are not stupid but I have been known to be wrong.

[Kismet]

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

So, tell us what you think of what Peter Navarro says about the Green Bay Sweep? Is THAT a "process" that you view as reasonable? Set aside the riot swirling around outside for the moment...are you in agreement that the whole thing maybe SHOULD have been sent back to the states on J6?

..

Navarro blamed the rioters for effing up the Green Bay sweep.........

Am I correct that many here, don't think the attempt to subvert the election sans the riot is any kind of big deal?

[MDlaxfan76]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Looking for inside video? Of "peaceful" defecation in the halls? Of "polite" rummaging the desks and offices of the Speaker, the Majority Leader and other Senators and Congressman? Of "careful" carrying off federal property? Oh, and if they were "peaceful" inside Congress -- you know, once the walls and doors were breached -- that must exonerate the violence required and the disobedience of the directives from the police to stop. Sure.

The effort to normalize this event, by statements like the knucklehead cheerleader, above, or by Greenwald's blather about "the melodrama" of Democrats, are actually dangerous and stupid -- if you actually love this country, and not your little party. You guys are going to get the country you deserve.

tunnel vision, seacoaster. No one around here is arguing the points of what what was attempted...move on, we are past that. Another layer of the entire situation, is the epic failure to protect the very process that was threatened, why you fail to care so very little about protecting the very people we elect but want to solely focus on democracy as a whole befuddles me.

I'm having trouble parsing this...can you re-state please?

We can walk and chew gun. Why has the video not been gone over with a fine tooth comb. Clearly out security was effed that day...why? Maybe video will reveal something telling...hell I can think of plenty crazy things that could have transpired.

Who says the video hasn't been examined carefully?

Sure, it's an enormous task, but we know the DOJ is doing so because we see all the prosecutions of those who can be identified, especially focused on those in the vanguard of violence.

Still can't understand what's confusing here...the mob was 10,000 strong, the vanguard was led by those well organized, and over 1,000 strong pushing and swinging. The police were out manned, not passive. They fought, many were injured, some very badly injured.

Should there have been anticipation of the mob turning on the Capitol, actually battling police in order to break in and stop the proceeding "hang Mike Pence" even? Well sure, obviously, and some of us were warning of these sorts of possibilities from the MAGA crowd...but most people thought the MAGA crowd simply wasn't like 'liberal' mobs...despite the history of right wing mob violence throughout American history (but largely scrubbed from our history books).

But the cops definitely fought and fought hard...meanwhile the POTUS was gleefully watching on TV, refusing all entreaties to call off the mob he'd incited.

Yes, a failure of imagination.

[MDlaxfan76]

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

So, tell us what you think of what Peter Navarro says about the Green Bay Sweep? Is THAT a "process" that you view as reasonable? Set aside the riot swirling around outside for the moment...are you in agreement that the whole thing maybe SHOULD have been sent back to the states on J6?

..

Navarro blamed the rioters for effing up the Green Bay sweep.........

Am I correct that many here, don't think the attempt to subvert the election sans the riot is any kind of big deal?

nah, it was just some "bad apples" and "that day" with a "failure of security" as the real blame...

EDIT...to Dis' comment, I don't think youth is actually saying he's cool with the overturn the election effort...I don't read him that way, though there is this effort to minimize the importance of the whole thing.

[MDlaxfan76]

Let me say, at risk of offending you (again?!), that It's all bullsh*t I think the focus on Capitol security is plainly intended to take the focus off the fact (1) that the President, with the complicit efforts of many Congressmen and Staff, incited a riot, and (2) the GOP thereafter voted (the same day), save for ten Congressmen and -women, for what the rioters wanted; and (3) that the GOP thereafter kowtowed to the Moron when they might have tossed him in the gutter where he and his family belong. Any parent understands establishing boundaries. Any person should understand that condoning the assault -- its impetus and actions -- will obliterate the boundaries, and that the boundaries are called "democracy."

I honestly believe we are closer that you think. You lean on blaming a party or group of politically infused people, I lean on blaming process...as it applies to protection. By profession, I am a fixer, problem avoidance is the end goal....regardless of influence, think N+1. In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside. LIke putting too many people on a deck and then it collapses; our deck in this instance had a fractured foundation on this day....WHY?

I agree completely with you that we have bad apples that perpetuated this. Just think about all the operations that have taken place that protected us that we know nothing about....we planned them, maybe got lucky. We had intel that day and we failed to protect our own damned Capitol.

Back to your walk and chew gum analogy, both a failure of imagination, and thus security, can go hand in hand with assessing that the most serious blame rests on the perpetrators inciting the violence, the frontal assault on democracy.

The violence was ultimately defeated, the Big Lie and the assault on democracy persists.

[seacoaster]

"In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside."

YA, respectfully, this is pretty much a demonstrably preposterous statement. There is no security at Whole Foods, so, you know, free steaks baby?

This "all transpired" because the President couldn't handle having has ass handed to him on November 3, foisted a Big Lie, and got his people to amplify it enough to make misguided foot soldiers out of the rabble summoned to Washington. This all transpired because Trump allowed the filth to come up out of the sewer and see the light of day, made them feel supported and mainstream. In the list of reasons why "this transpired," Capitol security is on the second page...of Tab 3.

[ggait]

Navarro blamed the rioters for effing up the Green Bay sweep.........

Am I correct that many here, don't think the attempt to subvert the election sans the riot is any kind of big deal?

The physical riot at the Capital and the failure to secure the Capital were both really really bad. But ultimately, pretty small potatoes. Since it isn't that unusual for a mob to get unruly and for a bureaucracy to screw up.

The much much bigger deal is all of the rat forking and rat forkers who basically tried to shred our Constitution and Democracy for the months preceding 1/6 and who are continuing that process a year later. The shirt pulled by Navarro, Bannon, John Eastman, Jeffrey Clark, Giuliani, Meadows, and their co-conspirators in Congress is simply mind blowing. Especially since they all, basically, admit in public exactly what they were trying to do. And seem to be perfectly willing to try all of that again in the future.

In any normal world, all those sleazeballs would be hiding out in exile and hoping they don't wind up in jail or in front of a firing squad for treason.

[old salt]

Interesting analysis on DW News of the > 700 rioters who were arrested on Jan 6, by U of Chicago Prof Robert Pape :

87 % no previous links to a militia or other violent group
86 % employed
7 % unemployed
52 % from counties comfortably won by Joe Biden

" ...they are part of mainstream America,...not from the margins of society...many of these folks have much to lose, don't normally take risks..."

Based on the court records of only those arrested.

Not having seen (or heard?) the DW News piece to which you refer I don’t know if you’ve left out a key portion of Pape’s analysis because it wasn’t included or because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I heard Pape on NPR earlier this week. While all the stats you quote are correct in general if not exactly according to his study, he stated this info is at first surprising until evaluation of underlying demographics.

As part of his study on where these insurrectionists (my word) came from, he found many of the pro-Biden counties had the largest population shifts in the country from majority white to a less plurality white and even to minority white.

He was more diplomatic than I’ll now be. He didn’t come right out and connect the dots, but it was pretty obvious where he believes the data leads. Yep, the Jan 6 insurrection is all about white privilege. The GOP has lost its collective mind. The lion’s share of those arrested are p-oed that their previous white majority, and all that means to and for them, is fading fast in the areas where they live.

All the usual folk can now come out and criticize the study as being typical far left junk by some intellectual wannabe from a known liberal university almost as bad as Berkeley. That’s how this works, right?

...those were the only stats cited, they were on the screen -- excerpts were what Pape said he found surprising.

All he said is also in here :

/www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-un ... ry-2-2022/
MARGARET BRENNAN: We want to take a closer look now at the 725 people who've been charged for their roles in the attack on the Capitol. Who are these individuals? And what can we learn from their backgrounds that can help us understand the political violence that we saw that day on January 6? Joining us now is Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago. Professor, I know you've studied insurgencies in war zones. You're working with the Pentagon now, I mean, you're looking at what is happening in the United States. And one of the things that was chilling to me was that you found the majority of those who attacked were not affiliated with any organized militia; they were everyday people.

UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PROFESSOR ROBERT PAPE: Exactly right, MARGARET, what we're seeing is a movement that is a mainstream movement, not simply confined to fringe elements. And this is important, because we're so used to thinking of right wing extremism, or really extremism in general as part of the fringe. They're just a tiny fraction of America, less than 1%, and they come from people that are economically destitute, many often unemployed. Well, that's not what our studies of the Jan. 6,- those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 show, or the studies of the insurrection of sentiment in the country.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And what you found is that some of these people were- were business owners, they were employed. These were people who had something to lose. They were putting things at risk when they went to Washington and carried out this violence.

PAPE: Absolutely. A very striking finding is their economic profile, over half of the 700 who broke into the Capitol had been arrested so far for breaking into the Capitol are business owners, CEOs from white collar occupations, doctors, lawyers, architects and accountants. Only 7% were unemployed at the time of their Jan. 6 insurrection, nearly the national average. This is very different than we're used to seeing from right wing extremists, where typically 25%, 30% of right wing violent offenders are unemployed and virtually none are CEOs or business owners. Further, if we look at their relationship to the militia groups, so only 13% of those who broke into the Capitol on Jan. 6 were members of militia groups like the Oath Keepers were extremist groups like the Proud Boys. That means not- nearly 90% were not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So if these people believe in what they were doing, who are they getting their information from? How could they truly put everything on the line and carry out this violence? Like who is telling them what to do?

PAPE: Well, we can see their media consumption from a-a surveys that we've done after our studies of who broke into the Capitol we find that fully 21 million people believe two radical beliefs in America today: one that Joe Biden is an illegitimate president, and two that the use of force to restore Donald Trump to the presidency is justified. And their media sources of those 21 million, they come from 42% of the 21 million their main media source is Fox News, Newsmax, One America that is mainstream conservative news. Their second most prominent news source is actually liberal and centrist media like CNN, NPR, CBS. And you might say, Well, how could that be? It's because often when people watch ideas they disagree with, that makes them angry. Only 10% of the 21 million are getting their news, mainly from right wing social media like Gab or Telegram.

MARGARET BRENNAN: President Biden has said that he believes racism was a key part of the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6. Have you seen anything that bears that out to be true?

PAPE: Race is an element and race is a driver. So when we look at the counties that the 700 who broke into the Capitol came from, where they live, what we see is over half live in counties that Joe Biden won. They don't mainly come from the reddest parts of America. They're coming from San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, Philadelphia, Houston and Dallas. Further, when we look at the key characteristic of why some counties and not others, what we see is the counties that sent the insurrectionists are the counties losing the most white population. Well, that dovetails with this right wing conspiracy theory that used to be part of the fringe called the great replacement. The idea that whites are being replaced. This idea is also that the Democratic Party is doing this deliberately. Well, that idea now is voiced by mainstream political leaders, by mainstream media figures, embraced full throttle.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So what are the triggers that you are watching, because I know you have said in the past this isn't just about violence in Washington, you could see sparks of violence in Atlanta, Georgia, in other major cities. What is the trigger?

PAPE: That's exactly right. So what we're seeing in our surveys are national surveys. Of the 21 million in the insurrectionists movement is a massive combustible material, think of it as like dry wood that can be set off from a lightning strike or a spark, as in wildfires. Well, we're moving into a highly volatile 2022 election season, where there could be many sparks at the local levels and a lot of our election laws, say Georgia or Texas, the counting of the vote has been more politicized than ever before. What that does is it creates a very dangerous season which means as we go through the 2022 election season, it's crucial to have dialogue with our political leaders, our community leaders, especially the White House, over this new empirical reality.

As far as being p.o.'d minority whites = that's supposition unsupported by facts, based on the demo of their home county.
Replacement theory ? How long have (D)'s been shouting whites are the new, growing, inevitable minority.

Again, they were only from among the 725 arrested. No breakdown of violent or assault vs just trespass.
the surprise -- they're successful, mainstream, independent. Not society's losers, nor all fringe RW or Q militants.

[tech37]

"In my world, this all transpired because of a failure in security; regardless of how many people where outside."

YA, respectfully, this is pretty much a demonstrably preposterous statement. There is no security at Whole Foods, so, you know, free steaks baby?

This "all transpired" because the President couldn't handle having has ass handed to him on November 3, foisted a Big Lie, and got his people to amplify it enough to make misguided foot soldiers out of the rabble summoned to Washington. This all transpired because Trump allowed the filth to come up out of the sewer and see the light of day, made them feel supported and mainstream. In the list of reasons why "this transpired," Capitol security is on the second page...of Tab 3.

Silly analogy sc. Your analogy is "preposterous". I do realize... you're angry.

"Rabble"? You seriously don't believe the VAST majority of protesters were well intentioned and within their rights on 1/6?

"Filth"? Do you feel the same about Antifa or anyone who used BLM as an opportunity to break laws, destroy private property, and sow general anarchy, and in the middle of a pandemic no less, and with nary a peep from Dem lawmakers or MSM?

I don't know how anyone can focus on 1/6 without considering everything that lead up to it. Context people!

But!... As I've said several times on here... Trump should not be allowed to run for office again based on his actions/inaction re the 1/6 riot.

If someone finds a LEGAL way to prevent that, I'm all for it.

[old salt]

The Histrionics and Melodrama Around 1/6 Are Laughable, but They Serve Several Key Purposes

As Kamala Harris compares 1/6 to 9/11 and Nancy Pelosi introduces the cast of Hamilton to sing about democracy, today's inanity should not obscure its dangers.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-hi ... ama-around

Pretty sad.

It's an opinion. Yes, the entire event and reaction, is sad.

GG comparing Jan 6 to the Mueller probe. Perhaps he was reading my posts around here when I said similar.

Oh the (melo)drama!

I look forward to Insurrection Day being an annual holiday.
Hope it's date flexible enough to be another Federal 3 day weekend.

[old salt]

Why haven't we seen any of the 14,000 hours of video from inside the Capitol? Might some of it show it was a "mostly peaceful" event, unlike the flaming cities the legacy media tried to portray as such? Might it show security allowing people in who walked around and left, only to be arrested later for trespass? It would certainly not cause people to think of 9/11 or Pearl Harbor.

Agree completely. Maybe Liz and Kinzinger are holding that close to their vest. I saw Liz interviewed and asked directly about that yesterday and her reply was so political in nature, whereas all the other answers where quite forthright and determined. There is clearly something there yet to be conveyed to the American people.

Liz also hedged big time on seeing Speaker Pelosi's comms with the CPB.