All things CoronaVirus

[JoeMauer89]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

People run to their doctors when they are sick, broken or have symptoms, you’re asking otherwise healthy people to ask for an emergency use authorized vaccine.

No. No, I'm not. I'm 100% NOT asking them to ask for a vaccine. I'm also not asking them to listen to Trump, Biden, Fauci, the Government, or any other entity.

I'm asking them to listen to their own personal doctors, my man. That's it. Nothing more. Just as they listen to them, as you put it, when they are "sick, broken, or have symptoms". Either they listen to their doctors, and believe what they say and do----or they don't.

And if they listen to their doctors, as they do with every other vaccine like the ones for Polio, Pertussis, diptheria, etc? Guess what will happen? Over 90%+ will take the vaccine.

And we can put this stupid mess behind us, and stop pretending like we don't do things like force our kids to take vaccines for meningitis before they head to college. This is yet another made up "issue" that's not real. It's invented to get clicks, and TV ratings.

Maybe that’s the answer afan have the fed pick up my co pay for my visit and consultation. Getting the vaccine does require informed consent take the liability away from the dr.

Read your personal doctor's website. Have a question email them. No cost.

DON'T look for some other doc who'll tell you differently.

I've had 4 PCP's in the last 18 years due to insurance converge changes, moves and the one dr i had the best relationship retiring most recently 2 years ago, good timing on his part. I don't have the absolute trust some of you do because i haven't had time to build up a relationship with my new PCP. I mentioned an accident i had last year my PCP still does not know how to treat the ongoing recovery. How many folks do you think have that complete relationship with their PCP?

Fair question. But unless you have some sort of very unusual situation (possible) it is extremely unlikely that any reputable primary care doc would tell you not to get vaccinated. It’s really quite simple. But if you really have a question because of a an unusual medical situation by all means get direct advice.

[lagerhead]

People run to their doctors when they are sick, broken or have symptoms, you’re asking otherwise healthy people to ask for an emergency use authorized vaccine.

No. No, I'm not. I'm 100% NOT asking them to ask for a vaccine. I'm also not asking them to listen to Trump, Biden, Fauci, the Government, or any other entity.

I'm asking them to listen to their own personal doctors, my man. That's it. Nothing more. Just as they listen to them, as you put it, when they are "sick, broken, or have symptoms". Either they listen to their doctors, and believe what they say and do----or they don't.

And if they listen to their doctors, as they do with every other vaccine like the ones for Polio, Pertussis, diptheria, etc? Guess what will happen? Over 90%+ will take the vaccine.

And we can put this stupid mess behind us, and stop pretending like we don't do things like force our kids to take vaccines for meningitis before they head to college. This is yet another made up "issue" that's not real. It's invented to get clicks, and TV ratings.

Maybe that’s the answer afan have the fed pick up my co pay for my visit and consultation. Getting the vaccine does require informed consent take the liability away from the dr.

Read your personal doctor's website. Have a question email them. No cost.

DON'T look for some other doc who'll tell you differently.

I've had 4 PCP's in the last 18 years due to insurance converge changes, moves and the one dr i had the best relationship retiring most recently 2 years ago, good timing on his part. I don't have the absolute trust some of you do because i haven't had time to build up a relationship with my new PCP. I mentioned an accident i had last year my PCP still does not know how to treat the ongoing recovery. How many folks do you think have that complete relationship with their PCP?

Fair question. But unless you have some sort of very unusual situation (possible) it is extremely unlikely that any reputable primary care doc would tell you not to get vaccinated. It’s really quite simple. But if you really have a question because of a an unusual medical situation by all means get direct advice.

It’s not about me and the vaccine, I’m vaccinated. It’s about people’s relationship or lack there of with a long term care giver. My point was trying to build a relationship with your personal physician who knows your history. It’s not as easy as saying trust your doc. Read my response to afan.

Edited “me and the vaccine”

[ggait]

[/quote]Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.
[/quote]

And it is a very reasonable commonplace kind of question to ask. Balancing costs/benefits.

Like should we increase or decrease the speed limit? Lower limit saves lives, but has other costs. So just dodge-ey to take umbrage and refuse to answer the question.

My number, IIRC, was to set the lock down restrictions so that the deaths (which were concentrated in very aged folks with limited years left anyway) was 200k. Seems so quaint and naive at this point.

[a fan]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

You're ignoring the context of why I asked that question. I asked because you and a parade of other posters arrived at the forum, and began mocking posters for taking covid seriously, and for what you thought was "giving in to fear" or for "being a bunch of negative posters".

I asked for a number because if you simply don't care how many people die? A simple cost/benefit analysis? All the measures taken to protect Americans sound insane. So closing colleges sounds insane. Wearing masks sounds insane. Frankly doing anything other that not making any changes to daily life sounds insane. And in the summer of 2020-----you and other posters were complaining about the measures taken to try and control the virus.

To wit? This exchange with you below, in the summer of 2020. Your post has not aged well, Joe. We cleared 600K deaths in America, and we're still going.

In other words: the "negative bunch of posters" you criticize below were right. And you were wrong.

If you're REALLY here for dialogue? Tip your hat to your fellow posters from 2020 who tried to tell you about the seriousness of Covid, and say, "boy, I got that one wrong".

It won't hurt you to do this, I promise. We're all wrong sometimes (yours truly, in particular)....no big deal . ;

We will just have to wait and see, not hopeful on the season. I wish I could paste the World-O-Meter graphs here but just look at them. Israel had a previous mild outbreak, then went down to nothing, now has a lot of cases.

So not for nothing - here you need some more context you may not know for Israel. By the middle of April they had 10k cases, and that's after they had put the whole country on mandatory lockdown (they did it in mid march actually). They went from less than a thousand cases to 10k in about 10 days at that point. Sort of the similar rate of change as Germany had at first. But then they locked it down, and they really flattened the curve. They're a small and densely populated country (think size and population of New Jersey, but with the bottom 1/3 of the country essentially uninhabited). I cut it there for you - you can see the delta was not good at first, and then it levels off completely because of the measures they took. And then blew up again lol.

israel.PNG

Side note I was actually in Israel for work two weeks before they started shutting everything down....

I don't know why I can't paste anything into here. Israel had a peak of 765 cases April 2 and a peak 3 day average of 720 then. It then trended down as everywhere that has locked down trended down and then, as is absolutely necessary for the survival of civilization, it opened up again. The first wave was not much at all when you look at cases per million. The population was mostly still naive and, as you say, is fairly dense. So away they went, peaking at 2308 July 28 and now starting to trend down again. The figure is the same for most every country in the world. The figure is the same for the US if you look at it by region rather than as a country as a whole. It is very different fighting and tracking a virus when your while country is the size of New Jersey. Its generally not helpful to look at the graphs showing cumulative cases, the one with incident cases by day are much easier to see the trends with. The other European countries where it was bad (much worse than Israel) have managed to open back up without a second wave. Here in CT is was bad, cases are now extremely low, but they many towns still are not letting schools open for F2F. The bar cannot be no cases or zero spread, that just isn't how respiratory viruses work.

Right again. Most people have NO CLUE how respiratory viruses (or any other communicable disease) work. They follow Farr's Law on local/regional basis. They always have, and always will. The amount of ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) about all this is amazing. One example: most people think that "antibodies" are the main way our immune systems fight infections, and that if you get AB tested and are negative, it means you haven't had Covid. Not (necessarily) true! T cells etc are actually more powerful than AB, and will not show up on a Covid AB test. But many people have T cells that have fought off previous coronaviruses. Which may be why NOWHERE in the world have we seen true "exponential growth" of Covid.

We are ruining livelihoods, childhoods (and yes college athletics) in pursuit of a pipe dream ("crushing" or stopping a respiratory virus.)

+1 Million

The COVID-19 Forum is turned into a real sorry place. There's no discussion at all, it's just blindly posting articles to see who can be more negative. If you don't have a viewpoint that falls in line with the regular posters, you are criticized, ostracized, denigrated to the point you either give up, agree to disagree or some combination of both. Most of the regulars spend the entire time trying to prove one poster wrong, who often has salient points. He just happens to ruffle feathers in bringing these across, which is NOT WRONG. If you don't believe the sky is falling, stay out of that forum because you are not allowed to bring an opposing viewpoint. If this forum had as many users as lets say Twitter, it would be a lot more interesting from my perspective. As someone who reads through a large, diverse amount of viewpoints about the virus on a daily basis, there are a lot of intelligent people that would be able to defend their viewpoints quite well against these negative bunch of regular posters. Again, not saying things are all rosy, but being constantly negative in regards to every aspect of life during the pandemic does absolutely nothing to help the situation, nothing at all! End of rant...

Craziest NHL game in a long time tonight!

Go Twins,
Joemauer89!

[JoeMauer89]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

You're ignoring the context of why I asked that question. I asked because you and a parade of other posters arrived at the forum, and began mocking posters for taking covid seriously, and for what you thought was "giving in to fear" or for "being a bunch of negative posters".

I asked for a number because if you simply don't care how many people die? A simple cost/benefit analysis? All the measures taken to protect Americans sound insane. So closing colleges sounds insane. Wearing masks sounds insane. Frankly doing anything other that not making any changes to daily life sounds insane. And in the summer of 2020-----you and other posters were complaining about the measures taken to try and control the virus.

To wit? This exchange with you below, in the summer of 2020. Your post has not aged well, Joe. We cleared 600K deaths in America, and we're still going.

In other words: the "negative bunch of posters" you criticize below were right. And you were wrong.

If you're REALLY here for dialogue? Tip your hat to your fellow posters from 2020 who tried to tell you about the seriousness of Covid, and say, "boy, I got that one wrong".

It won't hurt you to do this, I promise. We're all wrong sometimes (yours truly, in particular)....no big deal . ;

We will just have to wait and see, not hopeful on the season. I wish I could paste the World-O-Meter graphs here but just look at them. Israel had a previous mild outbreak, then went down to nothing, now has a lot of cases.

So not for nothing - here you need some more context you may not know for Israel. By the middle of April they had 10k cases, and that's after they had put the whole country on mandatory lockdown (they did it in mid march actually). They went from less than a thousand cases to 10k in about 10 days at that point. Sort of the similar rate of change as Germany had at first. But then they locked it down, and they really flattened the curve. They're a small and densely populated country (think size and population of New Jersey, but with the bottom 1/3 of the country essentially uninhabited). I cut it there for you - you can see the delta was not good at first, and then it levels off completely because of the measures they took. And then blew up again lol.

israel.PNG

Side note I was actually in Israel for work two weeks before they started shutting everything down....

I don't know why I can't paste anything into here. Israel had a peak of 765 cases April 2 and a peak 3 day average of 720 then. It then trended down as everywhere that has locked down trended down and then, as is absolutely necessary for the survival of civilization, it opened up again. The first wave was not much at all when you look at cases per million. The population was mostly still naive and, as you say, is fairly dense. So away they went, peaking at 2308 July 28 and now starting to trend down again. The figure is the same for most every country in the world. The figure is the same for the US if you look at it by region rather than as a country as a whole. It is very different fighting and tracking a virus when your while country is the size of New Jersey. Its generally not helpful to look at the graphs showing cumulative cases, the one with incident cases by day are much easier to see the trends with. The other European countries where it was bad (much worse than Israel) have managed to open back up without a second wave. Here in CT is was bad, cases are now extremely low, but they many towns still are not letting schools open for F2F. The bar cannot be no cases or zero spread, that just isn't how respiratory viruses work.

Right again. Most people have NO CLUE how respiratory viruses (or any other communicable disease) work. They follow Farr's Law on local/regional basis. They always have, and always will. The amount of ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) about all this is amazing. One example: most people think that "antibodies" are the main way our immune systems fight infections, and that if you get AB tested and are negative, it means you haven't had Covid. Not (necessarily) true! T cells etc are actually more powerful than AB, and will not show up on a Covid AB test. But many people have T cells that have fought off previous coronaviruses. Which may be why NOWHERE in the world have we seen true "exponential growth" of Covid.

We are ruining livelihoods, childhoods (and yes college athletics) in pursuit of a pipe dream ("crushing" or stopping a respiratory virus.)

+1 Million

The COVID-19 Forum is turned into a real sorry place. There's no discussion at all, it's just blindly posting articles to see who can be more negative. If you don't have a viewpoint that falls in line with the regular posters, you are criticized, ostracized, denigrated to the point you either give up, agree to disagree or some combination of both. Most of the regulars spend the entire time trying to prove one poster wrong, who often has salient points. He just happens to ruffle feathers in bringing these across, which is NOT WRONG. If you don't believe the sky is falling, stay out of that forum because you are not allowed to bring an opposing viewpoint. If this forum had as many users as lets say Twitter, it would be a lot more interesting from my perspective. As someone who reads through a large, diverse amount of viewpoints about the virus on a daily basis, there are a lot of intelligent people that would be able to defend their viewpoints quite well against these negative bunch of regular posters. Again, not saying things are all rosy, but being constantly negative in regards to every aspect of life during the pandemic does absolutely nothing to help the situation, nothing at all! End of rant...

Craziest NHL game in a long time tonight!

Go Twins,
Joemauer89!

I'm not someone who doesn't think CV-19 is not serious. Of course it is, we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't to the degree we are. I stood by what I said, most posters (your not nearly as guilty of this as others) let Peter Brown, ONE PERSON, get into their head. PB posts the way he does to get a rise out of you guys, and let me tell you it works to a T. So my point was, spend less time feeling the need to "educate" others about the seriousness of CV-19, do what you have to do to stay "safe", which means many different things to different folks, and attempt to live your life as normal as you can. I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site, in the news media, and especially on twitter where people project their anxieties onto others, have claimed it be consistently throughout this pandemic...

Joe

[a fan]

I'm not someone who doesn't think CV-19 is not serious. Of course it is, we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't to the degree we are. I stood by what I said, most posters (your not nearly as guilty of this as others) let Peter Brown, ONE PERSON, get into their head. PB posts the way he does to get a rise out of you guys, and let me tell you it works to a T. So my point was, spend less time feeling the need to "educate" others about the seriousness of CV-19, do what you have to do to stay "safe", which means many different things to different folks, and attempt to live your life as normal as you can.

That's cool---and yes, eventually you actually communicated these sentiments to me.

But that's not where you started when you arrived at the Forum....you started by agreeing with posters who didn't understand why, for example, we were shutting down lacrosse seasons.

So that's why I asked the question at the time, to get you (and the other posters) to understand that the people in charge of large organizations were doing their level best to protect the people that they are legally and/or morally responsible for, and had to guess at risk/reward....I can only react to what you write, my man. I can't read your mind. When you clarified your position? I moved on, if you'll recall.

I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site

Well, I guess we're splitting hairs on what Apocalyptic means, but geez..... 600K+ dead Americans ? That's more than WWII, my man, which was "only" 400K+. And we're heading in to winter with what, 160 million unvaccinated Americans?

[kramerica.inc]

Press secretary revealed that foreign visitors to the US don’t need to be vaccinated or show proof of Vax when entering the US as long as they confirm that they are “not intending to stay here for a lengthy period of time."

Good to know. The hypocrisy knows no ends.

[Farfromgeneva]

Press secretary revealed that foreign visitors to the US don’t need to be vaccinated or show proof of Vax when entering the US as long as they confirm that they are “not intending to stay here for a lengthy period of time."

Good to know. The hypocrisy knows no ends.

I think it’s clear the White House got themselves ahead of the science. But I think I’d rather be a little safer than make it about winning a ee-election and destroying the internal scientific infrastructure and further destruction of our trust in institutions which we have to trust (but verify not immediately look for ways to prove wrong that’s not the same thing) given the wonderful option we had to eat last November through January.

I mean a lot of people held their nose and voted for Biden given the option (myself included) who did the same w Trump in 16 (not me but only because I knew too much having been in similar business circles in a prior life but I did keep the Trump board game I found in my moms basement! Was thinking it might have some value either to an acolyte or to a Brooklyn/Dis type who’s want to burn it at a white claw party). It is and still remains better than the alternative but he didn’t claim to only hire the best people so he’s been more consistent.

Point being I’d expect some mistakes. Jumping on them now when their done out of the interests of the citizens vs his own personal interest (he ain’t running again) seems petty.

[runrussellrun]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

You're ignoring the context of why I asked that question. I asked because you and a parade of other posters arrived at the forum, and began mocking posters for taking covid seriously, and for what you thought was "giving in to fear" or for "being a bunch of negative posters".

I asked for a number because if you simply don't care how many people die? A simple cost/benefit analysis? All the measures taken to protect Americans sound insane. So closing colleges sounds insane. Wearing masks sounds insane. Frankly doing anything other that not making any changes to daily life sounds insane. And in the summer of 2020-----you and other posters were complaining about the measures taken to try and control the virus.

To wit? This exchange with you below, in the summer of 2020. Your post has not aged well, Joe. We cleared 600K deaths in America, and we're still going.

In other words: the "negative bunch of posters" you criticize below were right. And you were wrong.

If you're REALLY here for dialogue? Tip your hat to your fellow posters from 2020 who tried to tell you about the seriousness of Covid, and say, "boy, I got that one wrong".

It won't hurt you to do this, I promise. We're all wrong sometimes (yours truly, in particular)....no big deal . ;

We will just have to wait and see, not hopeful on the season. I wish I could paste the World-O-Meter graphs here but just look at them. Israel had a previous mild outbreak, then went down to nothing, now has a lot of cases.

So not for nothing - here you need some more context you may not know for Israel. By the middle of April they had 10k cases, and that's after they had put the whole country on mandatory lockdown (they did it in mid march actually). They went from less than a thousand cases to 10k in about 10 days at that point. Sort of the similar rate of change as Germany had at first. But then they locked it down, and they really flattened the curve. They're a small and densely populated country (think size and population of New Jersey, but with the bottom 1/3 of the country essentially uninhabited). I cut it there for you - you can see the delta was not good at first, and then it levels off completely because of the measures they took. And then blew up again lol.

israel.PNG

Side note I was actually in Israel for work two weeks before they started shutting everything down....

I don't know why I can't paste anything into here. Israel had a peak of 765 cases April 2 and a peak 3 day average of 720 then. It then trended down as everywhere that has locked down trended down and then, as is absolutely necessary for the survival of civilization, it opened up again. The first wave was not much at all when you look at cases per million. The population was mostly still naive and, as you say, is fairly dense. So away they went, peaking at 2308 July 28 and now starting to trend down again. The figure is the same for most every country in the world. The figure is the same for the US if you look at it by region rather than as a country as a whole. It is very different fighting and tracking a virus when your while country is the size of New Jersey. Its generally not helpful to look at the graphs showing cumulative cases, the one with incident cases by day are much easier to see the trends with. The other European countries where it was bad (much worse than Israel) have managed to open back up without a second wave. Here in CT is was bad, cases are now extremely low, but they many towns still are not letting schools open for F2F. The bar cannot be no cases or zero spread, that just isn't how respiratory viruses work.

Right again. Most people have NO CLUE how respiratory viruses (or any other communicable disease) work. They follow Farr's Law on local/regional basis. They always have, and always will. The amount of ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) about all this is amazing. One example: most people think that "antibodies" are the main way our immune systems fight infections, and that if you get AB tested and are negative, it means you haven't had Covid. Not (necessarily) true! T cells etc are actually more powerful than AB, and will not show up on a Covid AB test. But many people have T cells that have fought off previous coronaviruses. Which may be why NOWHERE in the world have we seen true "exponential growth" of Covid.

We are ruining livelihoods, childhoods (and yes college athletics) in pursuit of a pipe dream ("crushing" or stopping a respiratory virus.)

+1 Million

The COVID-19 Forum is turned into a real sorry place. There's no discussion at all, it's just blindly posting articles to see who can be more negative. If you don't have a viewpoint that falls in line with the regular posters, you are criticized, ostracized, denigrated to the point you either give up, agree to disagree or some combination of both. Most of the regulars spend the entire time trying to prove one poster wrong, who often has salient points. He just happens to ruffle feathers in bringing these across, which is NOT WRONG. If you don't believe the sky is falling, stay out of that forum because you are not allowed to bring an opposing viewpoint. If this forum had as many users as lets say Twitter, it would be a lot more interesting from my perspective. As someone who reads through a large, diverse amount of viewpoints about the virus on a daily basis, there are a lot of intelligent people that would be able to defend their viewpoints quite well against these negative bunch of regular posters. Again, not saying things are all rosy, but being constantly negative in regards to every aspect of life during the pandemic does absolutely nothing to help the situation, nothing at all! End of rant...

Craziest NHL game in a long time tonight!

Go Twins,
Joemauer89!

honestly, does it matter, your "question" ? Plenty of people refuse to answer questions on this website.

Your point it too divide. Too hate.

Others, points, when it comes to "fear", is precisely that. The fear that our country will continue to hate. to divide.

Thus,.....the numbers. Come on, ggait or afan......the NUMBERS show that almost all of the covid deaths had a number of factors:

OLD (avg. age 75 )

UNhealthy (that silly obesity , sugary sweet everything )....etc. etc.

You all have zero basis, medically and molecularly, for worrying about OTHERS not being vaccinated. Especially, from the US covid survivors.

The "fear porn" is the hate, you all dole out, each post. Some party.

Remeber being locked down, in your dorm room, watching that boring professor drone on, .....what makes going to class, in person, tolerable, are all the hot , good looking, and intelligent to boot.....in that in person class. Online learning > not so much. Lockdowns. MASKS. arrest b/c of no masks....and meanwhile, you all rejoice when scumbags like Newsom get to keep their job.....maskless. hypocrites.

you Trump supporters, pushing his emergency covid vaxx (he still own pfizer stock pushing the numbers narrative, when, in your hateful heart of hearts, yall know it IS them darker pigmented US citizens that ain't digging trumps emergency vaxx and it being FORCED upon them.

"just ask your doc " , parrotting the infotainment Drx ads......as if EVERYONE in the USA even has a "primary care" doc.

how many, IS that number ? but, can't go after that demographic, with the hate (well, you can, lie and spin it, when it comes to "them" not supporting POTUSA candidates like Mayor Pete. Blacks, apparently just don't like them their queer types (nytimes, washpost links I have posted, SAID so )

The unvaccinated pose NO threat to the vaccinated. Both are "carriers". Colleges are committing fraud. scumbags....the whole lot of em.

[runrussellrun]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

You're ignoring the context of why I asked that question. I asked because you and a parade of other posters arrived at the forum, and began mocking posters for taking covid seriously, and for what you thought was "giving in to fear" or for "being a bunch of negative posters".

I asked for a number because if you simply don't care how many people die? A simple cost/benefit analysis? All the measures taken to protect Americans sound insane. So closing colleges sounds insane. Wearing masks sounds insane. Frankly doing anything other that not making any changes to daily life sounds insane. And in the summer of 2020-----you and other posters were complaining about the measures taken to try and control the virus.

To wit? This exchange with you below, in the summer of 2020. Your post has not aged well, Joe. We cleared 600K deaths in America, and we're still going.

In other words: the "negative bunch of posters" you criticize below were right. And you were wrong.

If you're REALLY here for dialogue? Tip your hat to your fellow posters from 2020 who tried to tell you about the seriousness of Covid, and say, "boy, I got that one wrong".

It won't hurt you to do this, I promise. We're all wrong sometimes (yours truly, in particular)....no big deal . ;

We will just have to wait and see, not hopeful on the season. I wish I could paste the World-O-Meter graphs here but just look at them. Israel had a previous mild outbreak, then went down to nothing, now has a lot of cases.

So not for nothing - here you need some more context you may not know for Israel. By the middle of April they had 10k cases, and that's after they had put the whole country on mandatory lockdown (they did it in mid march actually). They went from less than a thousand cases to 10k in about 10 days at that point. Sort of the similar rate of change as Germany had at first. But then they locked it down, and they really flattened the curve. They're a small and densely populated country (think size and population of New Jersey, but with the bottom 1/3 of the country essentially uninhabited). I cut it there for you - you can see the delta was not good at first, and then it levels off completely because of the measures they took. And then blew up again lol.

israel.PNG

Side note I was actually in Israel for work two weeks before they started shutting everything down....

I don't know why I can't paste anything into here. Israel had a peak of 765 cases April 2 and a peak 3 day average of 720 then. It then trended down as everywhere that has locked down trended down and then, as is absolutely necessary for the survival of civilization, it opened up again. The first wave was not much at all when you look at cases per million. The population was mostly still naive and, as you say, is fairly dense. So away they went, peaking at 2308 July 28 and now starting to trend down again. The figure is the same for most every country in the world. The figure is the same for the US if you look at it by region rather than as a country as a whole. It is very different fighting and tracking a virus when your while country is the size of New Jersey. Its generally not helpful to look at the graphs showing cumulative cases, the one with incident cases by day are much easier to see the trends with. The other European countries where it was bad (much worse than Israel) have managed to open back up without a second wave. Here in CT is was bad, cases are now extremely low, but they many towns still are not letting schools open for F2F. The bar cannot be no cases or zero spread, that just isn't how respiratory viruses work.

Right again. Most people have NO CLUE how respiratory viruses (or any other communicable disease) work. They follow Farr's Law on local/regional basis. They always have, and always will. The amount of ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) about all this is amazing. One example: most people think that "antibodies" are the main way our immune systems fight infections, and that if you get AB tested and are negative, it means you haven't had Covid. Not (necessarily) true! T cells etc are actually more powerful than AB, and will not show up on a Covid AB test. But many people have T cells that have fought off previous coronaviruses. Which may be why NOWHERE in the world have we seen true "exponential growth" of Covid.

We are ruining livelihoods, childhoods (and yes college athletics) in pursuit of a pipe dream ("crushing" or stopping a respiratory virus.)

+1 Million

The COVID-19 Forum is turned into a real sorry place. There's no discussion at all, it's just blindly posting articles to see who can be more negative. If you don't have a viewpoint that falls in line with the regular posters, you are criticized, ostracized, denigrated to the point you either give up, agree to disagree or some combination of both. Most of the regulars spend the entire time trying to prove one poster wrong, who often has salient points. He just happens to ruffle feathers in bringing these across, which is NOT WRONG. If you don't believe the sky is falling, stay out of that forum because you are not allowed to bring an opposing viewpoint. If this forum had as many users as lets say Twitter, it would be a lot more interesting from my perspective. As someone who reads through a large, diverse amount of viewpoints about the virus on a daily basis, there are a lot of intelligent people that would be able to defend their viewpoints quite well against these negative bunch of regular posters. Again, not saying things are all rosy, but being constantly negative in regards to every aspect of life during the pandemic does absolutely nothing to help the situation, nothing at all! End of rant...

Craziest NHL game in a long time tonight!

Go Twins,
Joemauer89!

I'm not someone who doesn't think CV-19 is not serious. Of course it is, we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't to the degree we are. I stood by what I said, most posters (your not nearly as guilty of this as others) let Peter Brown, ONE PERSON, get into their head. PB posts the way he does to get a rise out of you guys, and let me tell you it works to a T. So my point was, spend less time feeling the need to "educate" others about the seriousness of CV-19, do what you have to do to stay "safe", which means many different things to different folks, and attempt to live your life as normal as you can. I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site, in the news media, and especially on twitter where people project their anxieties onto others, have claimed it be consistently throughout this pandemic...

Joe

dude, you are wasting your time here. They want to hate......often. Or boast about "ignoring", like middle school gossip mongers.

Trump is to blame for all the covid deaths, eh? (many claim ) but NOT BIDEN, for his refusal to close our borders to the "variants" (we haven't found any "variants" formed in N. America, have we .

What climate are we changing too, again ? Funny, how THAT question never gets answered. Look, a cloud with wind, rain....or....drought....or, basically ANY weather event, is climate change. OK.......subterrerian subcontintals humid plains.........cottonmouths over wintering in Maryland yet ? nope

THEY.....don't take covid seriously, using all the covid POSITIVE tests to hate, but turn their back on those very same numbers, when it comes to science, natural immunity and the NEED for trumps emergency vaccine. with its FDA warnings (heart ) and the daily reports of body altering side effects.

[dislaxxic]

..

[Farfromgeneva]

..

Got anything from Quagmire, my favorite, or Stewey?

[Bart]

J&J vaccine presser................https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/21/joh ... -efficacy/

[runrussellrun]

J&J vaccine presser................https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/21/joh ... -efficacy/

Iceland does not accept the J and J vaccine. You can not enter Iceland, without a vaccine. But, Johnson and Johnson is NOT approved, to enter Iceland. Any other countries requiring vaccines for entry? How about ones that won't allow the J and J one ?

Delta came from overseas........Biden could have closed our borders. Why didn't you guys call him out, and get him to close the borders NOW.

[youthathletics]

J&J vaccine presser................https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/21/joh ... -efficacy/

Iceland does not accept the J and J vaccine. You can not enter Iceland, without a vaccine. But, Johnson and Johnson is NOT approved, to enter Iceland. Any other countries requiring vaccines for entry? How about ones that won't allow the J and J one ?

Delta came from overseas........Biden could have closed our borders. Why didn't you guys call him out, and get him to close the borders NOW.

I do not think that is entirely true: https://www.icelandair.com/blog/iceland ... infection-

https://www.landlaeknir.is/um-embaettid ... the-border

Travellers that presents a certificate of full vaccination (as per criteria below) are exempt from certain border measures due to COVID-19.

Traveller with a valid certificate of previous COVID-19 infection or full vaccination are required to present a negative PCR- or antigen test Opnast í nýjum glugga at the border for exemption of quarantine Opnast í nýjum glugga. The negative test can be no more than 72 hours old at departure (boarding).

If a negative test is not presented or less than 14 days have passed since the second vaccination shot (or less than 14 days from single vaccination with the Janssen vaccine), one PCR-test upon arrival in Iceland is required and rules on quarantine need to be followed until the results are received.

Travellers who are unable to present a certificate of a negative test upon arrival in the country will be required to undergo PCR-testing at the border and can expect refusal of entry or a fine. Icelandic citizens will not be refused entry. While waiting test results rules on quarantine must be followed.

The piece in red is telling. Be nice if our Country would communicate this and not call everyone mouth breathers if they already had CV19

[JoeMauer89]

Man, RRR is living so rent free in your head that you would make this bullcrap attempt at dry humor...

Who? A Fan mentioned 600,000 and I knew the number was old and decided to look back and see how much has changed. The point was that these clowns thought 250,000 deaths was an exaggeration and A Fan kept trying to pin people down on what would be an acceptable number. Not sure you were around then but that’s the context.

Not only was he around-----Joe was the one I asked to give us an acceptable number.

He refused to give a number, of course. And I told him WHY he didn't.

And I still won't because it isn't as black and white as you make it to be. Nobody wants to see anybody lose their life due to CV-19. I don't have a number, because unlike most on this site, I don't use Covid death's as a political football... There isn't any acceptable number in my opinion, we continue to learn to live with it as we are currently doing, it's unfortunate but true to many degrees.

Joe

You're ignoring the context of why I asked that question. I asked because you and a parade of other posters arrived at the forum, and began mocking posters for taking covid seriously, and for what you thought was "giving in to fear" or for "being a bunch of negative posters".

I asked for a number because if you simply don't care how many people die? A simple cost/benefit analysis? All the measures taken to protect Americans sound insane. So closing colleges sounds insane. Wearing masks sounds insane. Frankly doing anything other that not making any changes to daily life sounds insane. And in the summer of 2020-----you and other posters were complaining about the measures taken to try and control the virus.

To wit? This exchange with you below, in the summer of 2020. Your post has not aged well, Joe. We cleared 600K deaths in America, and we're still going.

In other words: the "negative bunch of posters" you criticize below were right. And you were wrong.

If you're REALLY here for dialogue? Tip your hat to your fellow posters from 2020 who tried to tell you about the seriousness of Covid, and say, "boy, I got that one wrong".

It won't hurt you to do this, I promise. We're all wrong sometimes (yours truly, in particular)....no big deal . ;

We will just have to wait and see, not hopeful on the season. I wish I could paste the World-O-Meter graphs here but just look at them. Israel had a previous mild outbreak, then went down to nothing, now has a lot of cases.

So not for nothing - here you need some more context you may not know for Israel. By the middle of April they had 10k cases, and that's after they had put the whole country on mandatory lockdown (they did it in mid march actually). They went from less than a thousand cases to 10k in about 10 days at that point. Sort of the similar rate of change as Germany had at first. But then they locked it down, and they really flattened the curve. They're a small and densely populated country (think size and population of New Jersey, but with the bottom 1/3 of the country essentially uninhabited). I cut it there for you - you can see the delta was not good at first, and then it levels off completely because of the measures they took. And then blew up again lol.

israel.PNG

Side note I was actually in Israel for work two weeks before they started shutting everything down....

I don't know why I can't paste anything into here. Israel had a peak of 765 cases April 2 and a peak 3 day average of 720 then. It then trended down as everywhere that has locked down trended down and then, as is absolutely necessary for the survival of civilization, it opened up again. The first wave was not much at all when you look at cases per million. The population was mostly still naive and, as you say, is fairly dense. So away they went, peaking at 2308 July 28 and now starting to trend down again. The figure is the same for most every country in the world. The figure is the same for the US if you look at it by region rather than as a country as a whole. It is very different fighting and tracking a virus when your while country is the size of New Jersey. Its generally not helpful to look at the graphs showing cumulative cases, the one with incident cases by day are much easier to see the trends with. The other European countries where it was bad (much worse than Israel) have managed to open back up without a second wave. Here in CT is was bad, cases are now extremely low, but they many towns still are not letting schools open for F2F. The bar cannot be no cases or zero spread, that just isn't how respiratory viruses work.

Right again. Most people have NO CLUE how respiratory viruses (or any other communicable disease) work. They follow Farr's Law on local/regional basis. They always have, and always will. The amount of ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way) about all this is amazing. One example: most people think that "antibodies" are the main way our immune systems fight infections, and that if you get AB tested and are negative, it means you haven't had Covid. Not (necessarily) true! T cells etc are actually more powerful than AB, and will not show up on a Covid AB test. But many people have T cells that have fought off previous coronaviruses. Which may be why NOWHERE in the world have we seen true "exponential growth" of Covid.

We are ruining livelihoods, childhoods (and yes college athletics) in pursuit of a pipe dream ("crushing" or stopping a respiratory virus.)

+1 Million

The COVID-19 Forum is turned into a real sorry place. There's no discussion at all, it's just blindly posting articles to see who can be more negative. If you don't have a viewpoint that falls in line with the regular posters, you are criticized, ostracized, denigrated to the point you either give up, agree to disagree or some combination of both. Most of the regulars spend the entire time trying to prove one poster wrong, who often has salient points. He just happens to ruffle feathers in bringing these across, which is NOT WRONG. If you don't believe the sky is falling, stay out of that forum because you are not allowed to bring an opposing viewpoint. If this forum had as many users as lets say Twitter, it would be a lot more interesting from my perspective. As someone who reads through a large, diverse amount of viewpoints about the virus on a daily basis, there are a lot of intelligent people that would be able to defend their viewpoints quite well against these negative bunch of regular posters. Again, not saying things are all rosy, but being constantly negative in regards to every aspect of life during the pandemic does absolutely nothing to help the situation, nothing at all! End of rant...

Craziest NHL game in a long time tonight!

Go Twins,
Joemauer89!

I'm not someone who doesn't think CV-19 is not serious. Of course it is, we wouldn't be talking about it if it wasn't to the degree we are. I stood by what I said, most posters (your not nearly as guilty of this as others) let Peter Brown, ONE PERSON, get into their head. PB posts the way he does to get a rise out of you guys, and let me tell you it works to a T. So my point was, spend less time feeling the need to "educate" others about the seriousness of CV-19, do what you have to do to stay "safe", which means many different things to different folks, and attempt to live your life as normal as you can. I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site, in the news media, and especially on twitter where people project their anxieties onto others, have claimed it be consistently throughout this pandemic...

Joe

dude, you are wasting your time here. They want to hate......often. Or boast about "ignoring", like middle school gossip mongers.

Trump is to blame for all the covid deaths, eh? (many claim ) but NOT BIDEN, for his refusal to close our borders to the "variants" (we haven't found any "variants" formed in N. America, have we .

What climate are we changing too, again ? Funny, how THAT question never gets answered. Look, a cloud with wind, rain....or....drought....or, basically ANY weather event, is climate change. OK.......subterrerian subcontintals humid plains.........cottonmouths over wintering in Maryland yet ? nope

THEY.....don't take covid seriously, using all the covid POSITIVE tests to hate, but turn their back on those very same numbers, when it comes to science, natural immunity and the NEED for trumps emergency vaccine. with its FDA warnings (heart ) and the daily reports of body altering side effects.

+100

Joe

[MDlaxfan76]

People run to their doctors when they are sick, broken or have symptoms, you’re asking otherwise healthy people to ask for an emergency use authorized vaccine.

No. No, I'm not. I'm 100% NOT asking them to ask for a vaccine. I'm also not asking them to listen to Trump, Biden, Fauci, the Government, or any other entity.

I'm asking them to listen to their own personal doctors, my man. That's it. Nothing more. Just as they listen to them, as you put it, when they are "sick, broken, or have symptoms". Either they listen to their doctors, and believe what they say and do----or they don't.

And if they listen to their doctors, as they do with every other vaccine like the ones for Polio, Pertussis, diptheria, etc? Guess what will happen? Over 90%+ will take the vaccine.

And we can put this stupid mess behind us, and stop pretending like we don't do things like force our kids to take vaccines for meningitis before they head to college. This is yet another made up "issue" that's not real. It's invented to get clicks, and TV ratings.

Maybe that’s the answer afan have the fed pick up my co pay for my visit and consultation. Getting the vaccine does require informed consent take the liability away from the dr.

Read your personal doctor's website. Have a question email them. No cost.

DON'T look for some other doc who'll tell you differently.

I've had 4 PCP's in the last 18 years due to insurance converge changes, moves and the one dr i had the best relationship retiring most recently 2 years ago, good timing on his part. I don't have the absolute trust some of you do because i haven't had time to build up a relationship with my new PCP. I mentioned an accident i had last year my PCP still does not know how to treat the ongoing recovery. How many folks do you think have that complete relationship with their PCP?

Fair question. But unless you have some sort of very unusual situation (possible) it is extremely unlikely that any reputable primary care doc would tell you not to get vaccinated. It’s really quite simple. But if you really have a question because of a an unusual medical situation by all means get direct advice.

It’s not about me and the vaccine, I’m vaccinated. It’s about people’s relationship or lack there of with a long term care giver. My point was trying to build a relationship with your personal physician who knows your history. It’s not as easy as saying trust your doc. Read my response to afan.

Edited “me and the vaccine”

Understood.

[MDlaxfan76]

[quote=JoeMauer89 post_id=295218 time=1632192620 user_id=2641

I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site

Well, I guess we're splitting hairs on what Apocalyptic means, but geez..... 600K+ dead Americans ? That's more than WWII, my man, which was "only" 400K+. And we're heading in to winter with what, 160 million unvaccinated Americans?

You're being much too negative, a fan!

[JoeMauer89]

[quote=JoeMauer89 post_id=295218 time=1632192620 user_id=2641

I'm not counting death's over here, 650K is a terrible number and years from now i'm sure studies will be undertaken to get an idea of just how much of these deaths were preventable, a quantifiable number. It may be less than some thought, it may be more than some thought. I'm not the person that needs to be convinced. Covid is serious, but it has not and will not be the Apocalyptic event that some on this site

Well, I guess we're splitting hairs on what Apocalyptic means, but geez..... 600K+ dead Americans ? That's more than WWII, my man, which was "only" 400K+. And we're heading in to winter with what, 160 million unvaccinated Americans?

You're being much too negative, a fan!

MD,

Did I say that? You misrepresenting my words yet again. a fan is entitled to his opinion as much as I am. Your wasting your time, I'm not the one needing to be educated on the seriousness of Covid. You spend entirely too much time educating those on this thread about CV-19. Your not a doctor, last I checked. Focus on DinnerTime, aren't you in Vegas this week? How's the weather?

Joe