All things CoronaVirus

[jhu72]

Trump's Rona infection behavior is not selling well. 69% of the population does not believe anything coming out of the White House or Trump's mouth in regard to his illness.

The 31% is that persistent deplorable number. Always there in the metrics.

True that low 30s kind of number keeps showing up. I actually think it is still just a little high for the true deplorable number. There are still a few hopeful economic delusionals, well intentioned at the low 30s kind of number. Think the real number is something closer to 25%.

[jhu72]

MSNBC & PBS fave Dr Leana Wen on Trump's doctors :
We would certainly never lie to family members. And I believe that that's what is happening here. And it's unethical.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/2-doc ... alter-reed

Thanks for this. Woodward made news - noting the White House said they are not going to do any contact tracing on the White House super spreader event. I have strongly suspected this was the case. They do not want anyone tracking the numbers and the outcomes of this disaster.

Cross Link with relevant discussion

Turns out NYT posted a story on the White House not contact tracing this event as well.

[old salt]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

[jhu72]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but would think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be considered as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.


----
PS: Sorry for some of the silly spelling, now corrected. "Would" not "wood" --

[old salt]

One "health policy analyst" Laurie Garrett on MSNBC claims " He's taking a cocktail that no human being has ever taken before. So it's not just
uncharted territory, it's an experiment. No one has ever been given this combination of drugs for this or any other disease. We have no idea about his state of mind. Is he tweeting through side effects ? " That's a pretty all encompassing statement.
Claire McCaskill chimes in -- " They are experimenting on the President of the United States. "

I don't think Laurie Garrett & Claire McCaskill are MDs.

[CU77]

EjkdkU-XgAI3vZP.jpg (40.4 KiB) Viewed 1063 times

[Kismet]

Courtesy of historian Michael Beschloss on Twitter



Patient Nero

Why does it seem like we are all in North Korea with a fat toad leading the charge. New national poll this morning CNN/SSRS of likely voters conducted entirely after the debate and mostly after the President's Covid-19 infection was made public.
Biden: 57
Trump: 41
MOE: -3.6%
Biden is beating Trump by 60-39 among seniors.

Stevie Nicks says LANDSLIDE!!!!!!!

[Bart]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but wood think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be consider as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.

You can question. I have no problem with that. But should you question on national TV? About what may or may not be the case in a situation that you do not have 100% of the facts? Good Doctors probably but perhaps just a bit overwhelmed and enamored with the prospect of being on TV?

You can see this in the researchers as well. I like to think about it like, its my 5 seconds to have fame, commenting on things that they may or may not have the expertise to do so.

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.fox5ny.com/news/gov-cuomo-o ... s-to-close

King Andy runs this state like the tyrannical dictator he loves being. The good king while ruling over his subjects with an iron fist, can't control the actions of stupid people. Ron White was right... you can't fix stupid, stupid is forever. How do you control Covid when you can't fix stupid? Where a freaking mask, stay home as much as possible, keep your distance. Those sure are hard things to do. It is no wonder we can't control this virus. Too many stupid people that just don't get it!!

[Bart]

Thanks for the video. Great rendition of that song and a good way to start the morning.

[MDlaxfan76]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but wood think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be consider as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.

You can question. I have no problem with that. But should you question on national TV? About what may or may not be the case in a situation that you do not have 100% of the facts? Good Doctors probably but perhaps just a bit overwhelmed and enamored with the prospect of being on TV?

You can see this in the researchers as well. I like to think about it like, its my 5 seconds to have fame, commenting on things that they may or may not have the expertise to do so.

Bart, would you not agree that osteopath Commander Conly has been, at a minimum, a communications disaster? He is so obviously not telling the truth, withholding key information again and again, that questions from other doctors are inevitable, right?

Now, much of that misinformation may be at the direction of the patient, Commander in Chief, but his waving his hands, misspeaking, declining to answer key questions only to have to admit the truth later, makes it impossible to trust all the happy talk.

And brutally, this refusal to tell us when Trump last tested negative, "I don't want to look backwards"...

So, yes, doctors should be questioning on national TV.

some of the non-medical commentary has been hyperbolic at times, but the doctors IMO are by and large telling us the truth...that what the American public is being told by Conly is full of gaping holes and contradictions.

And the lack of contact tracing is appalling...but not surprising at this point, right?

[youthathletics]

... good, bad, indifferent, they brought it on themselves.

nah, i'd say it's good. we should all be so wise to not believe what comes out of our politician's mouths. and mouthpieces.

someday.

Yep. Obama said you could keep your doctor and Bush said no new taxes. They lied about everything. Trump is no different.

everybody's got a viewpoint, thank gawd! mine hasn't changed in decades. quite the game, politics.

what an election!

The only thing I hate more than politics is Donald Trump.

The irony of that statement as compared to your post count, would say that you actually enjoy both.

[Bart]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but wood think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be consider as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.

You can question. I have no problem with that. But should you question on national TV? About what may or may not be the case in a situation that you do not have 100% of the facts? Good Doctors probably but perhaps just a bit overwhelmed and enamored with the prospect of being on TV?

You can see this in the researchers as well. I like to think about it like, its my 5 seconds to have fame, commenting on things that they may or may not have the expertise to do so.

Bart, would you not agree that osteopath Commander Conly has been, at a minimum, a communications disaster? He is so obviously not telling the truth, withholding key information again and again, that questions from other doctors are inevitable, right?

Why point out that he is an ostiopath? Seems rather condescending to me. I'm certain his credentials are as good as any MD.
That being said his communication is substandard

Now, much of that misinformation may be at the direction of the patient, Commander in Chief, but his waving his hands, misspeaking, declining to answer key questions only to have to admit the truth later, makes it impossible to trust all the happy talk.

So don't trust it. But you will trust those who do not have the complete picture? Your think they are telling the truth so they are the ones to trust? Seems to be a tad bit of conformational bias in that view.

And brutally, this refusal to tell us when Trump last tested negative, "I don't want to look backwards"...

Yes, that question should be answered, IMHO

So, yes, doctors should be questioning on national TV.

Really? With out all the relevant facts that you just said they do not have? Do these talking heads have his blood gas readouts?
Do they know what his other tests they have? No they do not, they are making assumptions based on a lack of information. You can fault the lack of information but then you should also fault filling for this lack of information with pure speculation.


some of the non-medical commentary has been hyperbolic at times, but the doctors IMO are by and large telling us the truth...that what the American public is being told by Conly is full of gaping holes and contradictions.

And the lack of contact tracing is appalling...but not surprising at this point, right?

This has nothing to do with talking head Doctors speaking about things they do not have all the pertinent information for so I am going to ignore that particular squirrel.

[kramerica.inc]

I was thinking the same thing. I woke up this morning and was thinking immediately- the lack of contract tracing is simply appalling.

Do you people hear yourselves?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Thanks for the video. Great rendition of that song and a good way to start the morning.

One of my favorite songs.

[Typical Lax Dad]

... good, bad, indifferent, they brought it on themselves.

nah, i'd say it's good. we should all be so wise to not believe what comes out of our politician's mouths. and mouthpieces.

someday.

Yep. Obama said you could keep your doctor and Bush said no new taxes. They lied about everything. Trump is no different.

everybody's got a viewpoint, thank gawd! mine hasn't changed in decades. quite the game, politics.

what an election!

The only thing I hate more than politics is Donald Trump.

The irony of that statement as compared to your post count, would say that you actually enjoy both.

Prior to Trump’s running, I don’t believe I ever registered a post on politics and whenever he is gone you won’t see much. That is a promise. You can call me out for being a hypocrite if it doesn’t turn out to be the case.

[cradleandshoot]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but wood think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be consider as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.

You can question. I have no problem with that. But should you question on national TV? About what may or may not be the case in a situation that you do not have 100% of the facts? Good Doctors probably but perhaps just a bit overwhelmed and enamored with the prospect of being on TV?

You can see this in the researchers as well. I like to think about it like, its my 5 seconds to have fame, commenting on things that they may or may not have the expertise to do so.

Bart, would you not agree that osteopath Commander Conly has been, at a minimum, a communications disaster? He is so obviously not telling the truth, withholding key information again and again, that questions from other doctors are inevitable, right?

Now, much of that misinformation may be at the direction of the patient, Commander in Chief, but his waving his hands, misspeaking, declining to answer key questions only to have to admit the truth later, makes it impossible to trust all the happy talk.

And brutally, this refusal to tell us when Trump last tested negative, "I don't want to look backwards"...

So, yes, doctors should be questioning on national TV.

some of the non-medical commentary has been hyperbolic at times, but the doctors IMO are by and large telling us the truth...that what the American public is being told by Conly is full of gaping holes and contradictions.

And the lack of contact tracing is appalling...but not surprising at this point, right?

"Now, much of that misinformation may be at the direction of the patient, Commander in Chief, but his waving his hands, misspeaking, declining to answer key questions only to have to admit the truth later, makes it impossible to trust all the happy talk."

Is this all not covered under HIPPA? I don't think the doctor could answer any questions about trumps medical care even if he wanted to. The simple answer should be federal law prohibits me from discussing the presidents medical care.

[RedFromMI]

HIPAA restricts what medical personnel can release unless they have permission of the patient.

If permission is given information can be released without penalty.

It is pretty clear here that Trump is controlling what gets released.

And the issue of osteopathic physicians has appeared indirectly. For years now (since the early 60s for the most part), the practice rights of DOs and MDs are equivalent, even though there are differences in training and examinations. A couple of years ago, the process of matching graduating medical students with their residencies was merged into one system.

The educational differences are basically two-fold: a greater emphasis with DOs in whole body health, and the use of OMM (Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine) which uses techniques of direct contact (a bit similar to chiropractic doctors) for both detecting symptoms and manipulating for health.

Because of the emphasis on whole body health, emergency department physicians have a greater percentage of DOs than would be expected given their overall fraction within the medical community.

I do know a little about this particular set of differences because my daughter is a DO...

[MDlaxfan76]

TV docs back bite more than teenage mean girls.

The vast majority of COVID experienced docs are asking many of the same questions, not calling the Walter Reed docs liars, but legitimately not understanding why the strange timelines and compression of timeline in deploying the drugs they have. The docs asking the questions are just as good, some better, than the guys treating Trump. Its natural. The White House physician has no COVID experience until his current patient. Don't know how much experience the other Walter Reed (military) docs have. Clearly they brought Garibaldi in for his experience and not for nothing the name of the Institution he represents. I really don't know how much COVID experience he has, but wood think it is more than the others on the team. I am not sure he would be consider as among the most experienced in the nation. Fauci seems to think they are doing ok. It is what it is.

You can question. I have no problem with that. But should you question on national TV? About what may or may not be the case in a situation that you do not have 100% of the facts? Good Doctors probably but perhaps just a bit overwhelmed and enamored with the prospect of being on TV?

You can see this in the researchers as well. I like to think about it like, its my 5 seconds to have fame, commenting on things that they may or may not have the expertise to do so.

Bart, would you not agree that osteopath Commander Conly has been, at a minimum, a communications disaster? He is so obviously not telling the truth, withholding key information again and again, that questions from other doctors are inevitable, right?

Why point out that he is an ostiopath? Seems rather condescending to me. I'm certain his credentials are as good as any MD.
That being said his communication is substandard

Now, much of that misinformation may be at the direction of the patient, Commander in Chief, but his waving his hands, misspeaking, declining to answer key questions only to have to admit the truth later, makes it impossible to trust all the happy talk.

So don't trust it. But you will trust those who do not have the complete picture? Your think they are telling the truth so they are the ones to trust? Seems to be a tad bit of conformational bias in that view.

And brutally, this refusal to tell us when Trump last tested negative, "I don't want to look backwards"...

Yes, that question should be answered, IMHO

So, yes, doctors should be questioning on national TV.

Really? With out all the relevant facts that you just said they do not have? Do these talking heads have his blood gas readouts?
Do they know what his other tests they have? No they do not, they are making assumptions based on a lack of information. You can fault the lack of information but then you should also fault filling for this lack of information with pure speculation.


some of the non-medical commentary has been hyperbolic at times, but the doctors IMO are by and large telling us the truth...that what the American public is being told by Conly is full of gaping holes and contradictions.

And the lack of contact tracing is appalling...but not surprising at this point, right?

This has nothing to do with talking head Doctors speaking about things they do not have all the pertinent information for so I am going to ignore that particular squirrel.

Thanks for the response, I appreciate your perspective.
I do agree that it's important for the docs on TV to be clear about what they don't know as well as what they do.

Yes, my including his specialty was intended to point out that it is his medical specialty and not in any way related to the management of this sort of disease or its complications. It's not 'condescending' as I certainly am not an MD nor as trained in ANY field of medicine as he has been in osteopathy. Simply a lay perspective that I want to hear about the President's care from someone who is actually experienced in the specific issues presented with the President's care, not someone spinning happy talk who has destroyed his own possible credibility in the process.

So, what we are left with is major holes, including the ones where Conly is explicitly refusing to answer. And explicitly incorrect information, later 'corrected' or spun. Is there any logical presumption other than the information of a truthful answer would be a range of answers that would suggest a more severe situation than being conveyed? Do we as a public not have an interest in hearing what those holes might mean? Who do you want us to ask what they mean, our barber?

I haven't heard any of these docs on TV who haven't provided the caveat that they have incomplete information and that they have questions as a result, including providing what the missing information might reveal. That's appropriate. They are NOT definitively (at least not those I've heard) saying they know exactly Trump's condition.

And I also don't have an issue with the docs who are saying that there's no way any patient of theirs with the information provided to us would have been released from the hospital at this point without a release from the patient over their objection.

We do need to understand that most of these docs are in the military. The Hopkins doc, however, is not being allowed to take questions...why?

I agree that the tracing issue is separate from the President's immediate status, but like the question about when he was last negative, this is Very relevant to the timeline as to when he became infected and the course of the disease for him, how rapidly it progressed or whether he's actually in days 10+ from having been initially infected. Or that he was infected very recently and the disease progressed very quickly in his case. It matters.

But this is all part and parcel with how this White House is treating the virus and communications about it, a total disregard for the health of others. And that surely is a topic that makes sense to discuss with the MDs and other public health and infectious disease experts being brought on camera. These are the folks who have to deal with the fallout of such disregard.

So, not a 'squirrel' re the doctors on TV, IMO.

[Peter Brown]

I was thinking the same thing. I woke up this morning and was thinking immediately- the lack of contract tracing is simply appalling.

Do you people hear yourselves?

TDS is so off the charts as to be mind-bending. I often tune in to hear MSNBC and CNN just to get laughs now. And forget doctors, they all now opine on medicine as if they are practicing MD's.

This morning at the same time, MSNBC has on John Brennan, a guy who once voted Communist in an AMERICAN election who disturbingly eventually ran the CIA (I'd love to know who approved that...) and then on CNN they had Bob Woodward. These two are in essence 'sworn enemies' of Trump, incapable of even a shred of nuance. Yet they get all the airplay they want.

The analysis of Trump's Covid is beyond comical. And of course Fanlax Dems are right there with it.