Tiers in addition to Polls

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.


Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.

Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.

Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.

[Dr. Tact]

The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.


Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.

Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.

Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.

Nice post!

This seems reasonable, except VT. IMO they would be in Tier 4. Yes they beat JMU, but that is where I would put them.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.


Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.

Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.

Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.

Nice post!

This seems reasonable, except VT. IMO they would be in Tier 4. Yes they beat JMU, but that is where I would put them.

Thanks, Doc. Yeah—good point. I hemmed and hawed about VT.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

A little movement after last night

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC.

Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

[Dr. Tact]

A little movement after last night

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,

Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.

Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

Fixed it for you

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

A little movement after last night

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,

Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.

Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

Fixed it for you

Haha—thanks Doc. I’d love to see your tiers.

[Dr. Tact]

A little movement after last night

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,

Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.

Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - Everyone else

Fixed it for you

Haha—thanks Doc. I’d love to see your tiers.

Mine look like above except maybe dropping UVA to Tier 4

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

[Dr. Tact]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

[Dr. Tact]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

[livelovelax]

No way Duke is in Tier 2.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

[Dr. Tact]

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

OK. You can pick your tier anyway you want

In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.

So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

OK. You can pick your tier anyway you want

In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.

So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.

Oooooh you added another tier. I like that!

[hmmm]

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

OK. You can pick your tier anyway you want

In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.

So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.

Can you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?

[DMac]

Absolutely not, it's against the rules.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

OK. You can pick your tier anyway you want

In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.

So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.

Can you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?

I would say yes, as long as you have a rationale to back it up. Tiers are subjective to a degree.

[Dr. Tact]

Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.

OK. You can pick your tier anyway you want

In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.

So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.

Can you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?

You can do whatever you want with your tiers...it's fantasy.

[edit] my tiers are not built on head to head, but my eye test on where I think they slot.

[DMac]

Tiers are subjective.
Fixed that for you.