The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.
Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.
Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.
Tiers in addition to Polls
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Nice post!OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:25 pm The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.
Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.
Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.
This seems reasonable, except VT. IMO they would be in Tier 4. Yes they beat JMU, but that is where I would put them.
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Thanks, Doc. Yeah—good point. I hemmed and hawed about VT.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:53 pmNice post!OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Mon Mar 28, 2022 1:25 pm The way I define these tiers is at the present time, a team from one tier won’t be able to beat a team from another tier; theoretically, of course. And there is a definite line between the tiers separating the quality of the teams therein from other tiers. And teams within a tier would prove to be a tough battle if they played each other. That’s about as simple a definition as I can give for the tier system. Of course there are always upsets and exemptions but these are all based on opinion anyway.
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Princeton, Syracuse, Loyola, Duke, Denver.
Tier 3 - Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Stony Brook, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC, Virginia Tech.
Tier 4 - Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
That’s the concept in rough draft anyway. As few or many tiers as needed. Not an exact science in the same way polls are not.
This seems reasonable, except VT. IMO they would be in Tier 4. Yes they beat JMU, but that is where I would put them.
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
A little movement after last night
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC.
Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, USC.
Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Fixed it for youOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:29 am A little movement after last night
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,
Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.
Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Haha—thanks Doc. I’d love to see your tiers.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:05 amFixed it for youOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:29 am A little movement after last night
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,
Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.
Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Mine look like above except maybe dropping UVA to Tier 4OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:22 amHaha—thanks Doc. I’d love to see your tiers.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:05 amFixed it for youOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:29 am A little movement after last night
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Stony Brook, Loyola,
Tier 3 - Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Virginia, Michigan, Colorado, Stanford, Notre Dame, US, Duke, Denver,.
Tier 4 - Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - Everyone else
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:45 am Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:42 amI still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:45 am Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:57 amIt’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:42 amI still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:45 am Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).
Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/
So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.
-
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:25 pm
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
No way Duke is in Tier 2.
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:24 amBeat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:57 amIt’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:42 amI still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:45 am Tier 1 - NC, BC.
Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.
Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.
Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.
Tier 5 - The rest
OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).
Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/
So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
OK. You can pick your tier anyway you wantOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:57 am
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.
In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.
So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Oooooh you added another tier. I like that!Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:12 amOK. You can pick your tier anyway you wantOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:57 am
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.
In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.
So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Can you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:12 amOK. You can pick your tier anyway you wantOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:57 am
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.
In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.
So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Absolutely not, it's against the rules.
- OuttaNowhereWregget
- Posts: 7085
- Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:39 am
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
I would say yes, as long as you have a rationale to back it up. Tiers are subjective to a degree.hmmm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:31 amCan you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:12 amOK. You can pick your tier anyway you wantOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:57 am
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.
In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.
So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
You can do whatever you want with your tiers...it's fantasy.hmmm wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:31 amCan you be in Tier 3 when you have a 7 goal loss in tier 4 and 2 losses in tier 5?Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:12 amOK. You can pick your tier anyway you wantOuttaNowhereWregget wrote: ↑Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:57 am
Good points Doc, but for my tiers, I’m giving Duke the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. I thought Loyola should have defeated Syracuse. They were both ranked #4 at the time in different polls.
In looking back at the game after a few days, I too think Loyola should have won that game....so if your metric is "should have won" then I guess you can take Duke over Loyola, but the rest of it doesn't pass the eye test for me.
So, I would have Tier 2 as NU, Cuse, Loyola, SBU.
Tier 3 would be Duke, Denver, MD, Princeton, Florida, Colorado, JMU.
Tier 4 would be Rutgers, Stanford, USC, Mich., Virginia, ND, Ohio St, UMass, Army, Navy, UConn, JHU.
Tier 5 would be Vandy, VT, Penn St, Jax
Tier 6 - everyone else.
[edit] my tiers are not built on head to head, but my eye test on where I think they slot.
Last edited by Dr. Tact on Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tiers in addition to Polls
Tiers are subjective.
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.