Fair Pay to Play Act

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Someone needs to show me how to use blue font.

[Farfromgeneva]

yeah. they're capped if they want to play in that sandbox. they can go to another sandbox if it works better for them. free market.
they'd also be capped if they wanted to get into federal government work. or if they wanted to be a teacher in ohio. or a union employee.

if they were good enough to go pro, they'll be capped there also for at least awhile. and if they're the best at what they do, they'll be told where they have to work, and for whom. the very, very best often with a dysfunctional franchise.

if they choose to go the college route and they're good enough, they'll have the opportunity to choose where they want to play and for whom.

your argument is that amateur sports is illegal. that an organization cannot choose to have their participants play as amateurs and not employees. just don't share that opinion. colleges provide what they provide in the way of compensation. you can take it or leave it. i don't believe the government should be dictating whether or not you can set up amateur athletics around an educational foundation. and i don't think they're infringing on the american way to do it.

the huge money now surrounding college athletics means these conversations were coming, and now we're here. the nc$$ has no one to blame but themselves for how they've handled their business re: athletes for decades. nickel and dime people, and they get fed up.

I’d argue they’ve violated the law with respect to the tax code and have largely gotten away with it through transfer pricing. With respected major sports they’re not non profits and have operated otherwise for 20yrs. Throw that out they’re not exempt from antitrust.

It’s like everyone is ignoring the fact that this whole adidas scandal in basketball doesn’t exist but guys were being convicted. Time to bring it all out into the light of day rather than having this disgusting black market.

This isn’t simply the government sees big money so there getting involved. That would be a very perverse way of framing this.

University of Maryland dropped the printing of their student newspaper due to losses (their words), even though they have a journalism major but didn’t drop any sports when they were losing money hand over fist in the athletics department.

From an antitrust perspective the other situations allow employees to collectively bargain, even in right to work states the employees have options. The G league isn’t a viable option nor is foreign leagues if you’ve ever read stories about checks not coming and conditions. This is, of corse, all ignoring football that doesn’t even have those options.

Using basketball though the argument the schools make the star is a bit specious in the era of one and done. And there are plenty of kids who arrive on campus as stars already. Eric Swan was drafted high without HS. The NBA was drafting all sorts of knuckleheads out of HS for a number of years (recall one late first rounder the Mavericks drafted who caught a gun charge and never saw the light of a court floor that didn’t have a judge and lawyers with a bailiff on it).

There’s no amateurism in the two big sports anymore. High time they’re forced, in conjunction w their professional counterparts, to separate or make major developmental decisions. It’s ruining higher ed in its own way. Having the govt get involved isn’t ideal but these two cohorts (professional owners and college presidents) have behaved so shamefully for so long, along with agents, runners and gear companies that it had to happen and there’s plenty of ways the existing laws justify some action. Personally I would’ve preferred stripping tax exemption of these sports programs and some type of true audit function requirement but defending the colleges and their professional masters is tough road to hoe. Even at a place like Ga tech i know the athletes often don’t go to class, have separate housing and dining, they’re not part of the school other than the jersey. Minnesota had tutors writing papers for their athletes. These aren’t student athletes and as inelegant as it is it forces this recognition which was long overdue.

[OCanada]

Playing sports in college is a job albeit one you may love.

A little off topic but the whole 501.c.3 and related organizations have a ton of miscreants. The mega churches, lobbying organizations like the NRA to pick an obvious one.

My sister was the CFO of a major public university with mega donors. I am talking billionaires in some cases.

They sit on Boards, they can drive decisions on what facilities get built and in what order and where they are located and what the design looks like etc. one with the right value proposition can be invaluable to a university. Others not so much. What you see in athletic programs is just a slice of the overall pie in the NFP world and sports programs. That doesn’t begin to address the moral rot of programs where a doctor can assault 1,500 women athletes

[Farfromgeneva]

I agree that non profit status and municipal shelves to run for profit projects through are all issues.

The problem becomes when laws are over-later and more and more explicit language is used it creates more arbitrage opportunities.

[OCanada]

Exactly so

[genesrfree]

Actually, WOMBAT, while I realize your intention here is to throw a dig and be a smart a*s*s, you use a real good example of what is wrong with the grip the NCAA has on student athletes, and the reason things are heading in the direction they are. If a Canadian music student couldn't get a car loan while attending University X in the USofA because, well, because he/she is Canadian, that person could get whoever is willing to sign as a co-signer with no questions asked. If that person happens to be, let's say a married lacrosse player who is part of a duo that is catapulting his program to a different level and bringing a whole lot of positive national attention to University X, well, that person can't. Something is wrong there, thanks for bringing it up.

The California law is for California residents, I am guessing it will be the same in other states, Canadians will have no play in these scenarios as they are not residents. California has a population that is about 51% whack-job and the whack-job in chief; Gavin Newsom is creating a mess. This will end up being used in all sorts of unsavory ways to entice athletes.

[OCanada]

CA has set the national standard in all kinds of sectors. They are not alone here just the first to make it a law. It seems it will take more to get a true standard set and before that happens all kinds of mischief can occur

[Farfromgeneva]

Think Reggie Bush is wondering when he gets his heisman back?

[OCanada]

My wife’s uncle, maybe great uncle, used to be the president of the Downtown Athletic Club. Had he not died maybe something could be worked out DAC stopped awarding in early 2000s.

[44WeWantMore]

Someone needs to show me how to use blue font.

In your reply simply highlight some text, click on the teardrop next to the Normal dropdown, and pick a color. You should see matching markdown tags surrounding the text you highlighted, with the hex value of your chosen color in the opening tag.

On topic, I guess there are probably a dozen athletic departments the throw off funds to the rest of the university (ND, UT, PSU, UM, etc.) and maybe 100 football / basketball programs that throw off funds to the rest of the Athletic Department. For all the rest, CTE is going to be a much bigger threat to College Football than paying semi-professional athletes. Trust me, the Blue Jays are still going to play Ursinus on Saturday afternoon.

[a fan]

sorry, just don't agree that because it's a lot more money involved, now it's no longer amateur and everyone including players have to be paid/earn money.

State of California disagrees with you. Hard stop. So does the Olympics, for that matter....what happened there? Big money arrived, changing the claim of amateurism.

Btw, NCAA sports isn't amateur. Scholarships ruin that claim. If it were straight up amateur, there wouldn't be such thing as an athletic scholarship.

i believe, as i've said and you've read --- is on the principal of an organization to be able to set their own rules. hard stop. an organization should be able to set up an amateur sports league. that's voluntary to join. because it becomes wildly successful doesn't change that perspective for me.

All of those organizations have to follow State and Federal labor laws. Again, it's not 1950. There's hundreds of things that I cannot do with my workforce because of these labor laws. This isn't the wild west where as an employer, I can just say "if you don't like it, there's the door".

And where did all of these labor laws come from? They came from workers who got fed up of unfair and unsafe work conditions. When employers are reasonable and fair? These laws are not needed, and not petitioned for. The world does not operate in a vacuum.

If Coach K was making around $100K, and tickets for the Final Four was $20, and TV rights for SEC football was a few hundred grand? And OBannon didn't have his likeness used in a Video Game without getting paid for it? We wouldn't be having this discussion. The massive amounts of money everyone but the players get does indeed matter.

Context matters. Fairness matters.

[wgdsr]

sorry, just don't agree that because it's a lot more money involved, now it's no longer amateur and everyone including players have to be paid/earn money.

State of California disagrees with you. Hard stop. So does the Olympics, for that matter....what happened there? Big money arrived, changing the claim of amateurism.

Btw, NCAA sports isn't amateur. Scholarships ruin that claim. If it were straight up amateur, there wouldn't be such thing as an athletic scholarship.

i believe, as i've said and you've read --- is on the principal of an organization to be able to set their own rules. hard stop. an organization should be able to set up an amateur sports league. that's voluntary to join. because it becomes wildly successful doesn't change that perspective for me.

All of those organizations have to follow State and Federal labor laws. Again, it's not 1950. There's hundreds of things that I cannot do with my workforce because of these labor laws. This isn't the wild west where as an employer, I can just say "if you don't like it, there's the door".

And where did all of these labor laws come from? They came from workers who got fed up of unfair and unsafe work conditions. When employers are reasonable and fair? These laws are not needed, and not petitioned for. The world does not operated in a vacuum.

If Coach K was making around $100K, and tickets for the Final Four was $20, and TV rights for SEC football was a few hundred grand? And OBannon didn't have his likeness used in a Video Game without getting paid for it? We wouldn't be having this discussion. The massive amounts of money everyone but the players get does indeed matter.

Context matters. Fairness matters.

olympics not a great example as its transition was a result of the exact opposite of what's occurring here. eastern bloc was sponsoring athletes giving them an advantage, and the ioc figured they could make even more money by bringing the sponsorships of athletes into the fold. although the common denominator --- it's always about the money.

i get what you're saying and there is a crowd on both sides of the ledger. most of us are probably dug in on our thoughts about it.

here's a link and story that provides some brief history on a lot of these issues, rulings, as well as links with more details:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/03/03/legal ... e-and-done

[a fan]

From my perspective? I wish the NCAA has gotten their own house in order, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Things like TLD's idea of putting a player's earnings in a trust that they get when they graduate.

They got greedy, and it may wind up killing the golden goose. I'm not any happier about that than you are.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Someone needs to show me how to use blue font.

In your reply simply highlight some text, click on the teardrop next to the Normal dropdown, and pick a color. You should see matching markdown tags surrounding the text you highlighted, with the hex value of your chosen color in the opening tag.

On topic, I guess there are probably a dozen athletic departments the throw off funds to the rest of the university (ND, UT, PSU, UM, etc.) and maybe 100 football / basketball programs that throw off funds to the rest of the Athletic Department. For all the rest, CTE is going to be a much bigger threat to College Football than paying semi-professional athletes. Trust me, the Blue Jays are still going to play Ursinus on Saturday afternoon.

Thanks.

I need the color code for Columbia Blue.

I’ve already got the Black figured out.

[Farfromgeneva]

If one grew up on the west coast or NE and moved into SEC country I think they’d see how perverse it is. Even talking basketball isn’t really germane, this is all about football.

[3rdPersonPlural]

This may have been addressed in the many pages I either skimmed or skipped in this thread, but:

Does this rule only apply to California schools and their teams/athletes?

I can't see a CA State ruling justifying out-of-State schools having to allow their athletes to get paid. But I do see the slippery slope here......

[wgdsr]

This may have been addressed in the many pages I either skimmed or skipped in this thread, but:

Does this rule only apply to California schools and their teams/athletes?

I can't see a CA State ruling justifying out-of-State schools having to allow their athletes to get paid. But I do see the slippery slope here......

at least 10 other states are considering taking it up.
i suspect a court ruling or a rule change will come out of this before it puts teams, players or schools on unequal footing.

[Farfromgeneva]

Is the PAC12 going to toss USC, UCLA, Stanford, Cal? So that means the conference will go that way. Then why would a stud RB leave the west coast where he can get paid to go to a ACC, Big12, Big10, SEC school, so you lose all those recruits. Matter of time.

[44WeWantMore]

Someone needs to show me how to use blue font.

In your reply simply highlight some text, click on the teardrop next to the Normal dropdown, and pick a color. You should see matching markdown tags surrounding the text you highlighted, with the hex value of your chosen color in the opening tag.

On topic, I guess there are probably a dozen athletic departments the throw off funds to the rest of the university (ND, UT, PSU, UM, etc.) and maybe 100 football / basketball programs that throw off funds to the rest of the Athletic Department. For all the rest, CTE is going to be a much bigger threat to College Football than paying semi-professional athletes. Trust me, the Blue Jays are still going to play Ursinus on Saturday afternoon.

Thanks.

I need the color code for Columbia Blue.

I’ve already got the Black figured out.

A few options, all hard to read against the fanlax background:
Spirit Blue (#68ACE5), from: https://brand.jhu.edu/color/
Columbia Blue (#9BDDFF), from: https://www.99colors.net/name/columbia-blue
Columbia Blue (#C4D8E2) from: https://rgbcolorcode.com/color/columbia-blue

[Farfromgeneva]

How do you do the color for postseason blues?