Fair Pay to Play Act

[Farfromgeneva]

Sorry, I sometimes for work use a singular M for thousand, MM is million in that context. But it was very helpful paying for Hobart which was around $30-$32k all in per year back then (probably double now). Even got a dealers license so I could order some wholesale and, more importantly go to card shows with my dad and trade high value new stuff for older cards for our joint collection, almost never walking out net less than a few bucks cash and still own a lot of cards for tobacco cards through the late 70s (maybe hung onto a few 80s cars like Ripken and Sandberg rookies but the stuff after my birth for the most part isn’t the same as owning a right 1956 mantle from his triple crown year, hank Greenberg goody card, dizzy dean, ackie robinson cards, Gibson rookie cards etc - 1955 Bowman TV and 1959 Topps were some of my favorites)..

But I’m still proud of that! (which was really low-mid teens and compounding of interest when you could earn something in savings accounts). Nice little operation.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I did all the standard stuff, shoveling, taking etc. paperboy at 12, first official job at 15 at a Long
John Silvers, but I made serious cash, saved over $20m that my parents locked up until college, starting when I was eight selling baseball cards. My dad loaned my money to buy a couple of boxes of Topps wax packs, was in the $14-$16 range for a box of 36. Would sell them on my front porch off a table w a shi**y picnic table cloth and a bootleg stand I made with my limited cub scouts woodworking skills and cleaned out every kid in the neighborhoods allowances for 3-4yrs at $0.75-$1.00/pack.

Ultimately supper deck ruined cards for everyone.

Had a paper route also! Had to quit because I would stop and talk to cute girls on the route or play pick up basketball and was delivering papers at 8:00-9:00 at night, if not the next morning!

[6ftstick]

So Alabama sets up the largest budget allocation for SALARIES for football.

They buy the best athletes at every position since they're nothing but employees now. Game and Sport over.

Duke buys all the best basketball players. Pays the highest salaries in college Bball. Game and Sport over.

You all defend the practice. All Games and All sports over.

No need for this BS anymore. Who's going to get excited about the equivalent of the faculty and grounds crew. Just another employee.

https://www.facebook.com/SportsRecruiti ... 9344869178

[OCanada]

A throw away comment sort of. There are no “free” markets and few believe in them when pressed.

[6ftstick]

Apparently the "student" athlete, the university, the advertisers, the broadcast media, NO ONE regards a 250,000 education as having any value.

Politicians sticking their noses in without understanding any of the unintended consequences—game over.

So everyone else gets to operate in the free market except the people who are doing the actual work? And all players are compensated the same, even if they win the National Championship as the MVP, or if they ride the pine? Sounds like communism.

Is there a wage cap for coaches and administrators? The obvious alternative solution here is to make this fair and cap the amount anyone working at the University----coaches, Presidents, Administrators------earns at the price of Tuition and Room and Board. And disallow them from making any other money outside of this wage.

So, for example, Nick Saban's or the President of the University of Alabama's maximum wage would be $45,022 per year, and he would be barred from any endorsements or any other income.

Sound fair to you guys? Or does that sound more like a economic system we'd see in the Soviet Union?

Do we believe in the free market, or don't we?

Do you make more than your employees? You bastid Soviet oligarch!

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

Sorry, I sometimes for work use a singular M for thousand, MM is million in that context.

phew, because i get up to geneva once a year. i go up in february, because i like the self-inflicted pain.

[youthathletics]

Interesting perspective. https://twitter.com/backaftathis/status ... 36320?s=21

[Farfromgeneva]

Sorry, I sometimes for work use a singular M for thousand, MM is million in that context.

phew, because i get up to geneva once a year. i go up in february, because i like the self-inflicted pain.

I remover being tough about the winter. 40+ and sun and it’s shorts weather. Moved from NYC to Atlanta in 2009 and can’t even handle a cold May Day in Upstate NY anymore.

It’s beautiful when the weather is good, all 7 weeks of it, otherwise considered a shangri la for residents of Siberia and eskimos.

[a fan]

Do you make more than your employees? You bastid Soviet oligarch!

For the first ten years, my brother and I were the lowest paid full time employees.

Simply pointing out that capping what someone can earn in America is very.....un-American.

[a fan]

So Alabama sets up the largest budget allocation for SALARIES for football.

They buy the best athletes at every position since they're nothing but employees now. Game and Sport over.

Duke buys all the best basketball players. Pays the highest salaries in college Bball. Game and Sport over.

I think you've got it turned around. This is the free market. Duke and Alabama will have to compete for those dollars.

How many Duke fans are there who haven't graduated from Duke? Like ten? Twenty? I'm exaggerating and making fun of Duke obviously, but what's to stop, for example, someone in Silicon Valley from cutting million dollar checks for kids to play basketball at their alma mater?

And their alma mater is San Francisco St? Why not?

Every State and University has rich Boosters. What if Bloomberg decides to cut checks for lax players? Or same for David Morrow cutting checks to get kids to Princeton?


As I said, the unintended consequences for this bill are going to come from every direction. Who knows what direction it will go? I don't think anyone could possibly know what this new law will do.

[wgdsr]

i'm confused by the last 2 posts.

which side are you on?

[Farfromgeneva]

Who could possibly be on the side that includes gordon gee or these guys:

https://www.nola.com/sports/article_c2e ... 39a56.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... r.amp.html

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Bliss

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latime ... f_amp=true

[a fan]

i'm confused by the last 2 posts.

which side are you on?

Neither!

This bill could easily wreck college sports, and college lacrosse that we all care about, in many different ways. I get that.

That said, it's un American to cap what someone can earn as an adult. We don't do that in any other circumstance that I can think of.....

The kids at the top of the basketball and football pyramid are being denied millions of dollars. That's pretty crazy, and by pretty much any American notion of capitalism, completely unfair. If you ask me, it's a crime to deny these kids wages that they themselves earn.

Everyone gets unlimited piles of cash, except the very players that the entire money making scheme depends on? It's ridiculous on its face.

I've already pointed out how absurd this limit applied to players are by applying the same cap to their coaches...and it looks absurd, doesn't it?

Cap Rick Saban at $46,000 per year, which is tuition and room and board at the University of Alabama. Does $46, 000 sound like fair compensation to Nick Saban?

I'd think not. So then why are the players lining everyone's pockets capped at that relatively piddly amount? It doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it.

My opinion is immaterial. The bill passed. We'll find out what happens soon enough.

[wgdsr]

yeah, it does sound ridiculous when you couch it like that. so why do you think basketball players don't go to the g-league for $125 k minimum and all the benefits?

or europe and milliions? after all, they're not paid in college. makes no sense, right? why do they do it?

[a fan]

Because people don't care about basketball or football in and of itself. What drives the eyeballs is the College brand name.

Take that away? No one cares.

Kids are following that. They want the fame. That and the chances to go pro. They're 16 year old kids when the recruiter comes calling....

[wgdsr]

so they are compensated it seems.

[a fan]

Yes! Never said they weren't. I said that their compensation is capped.

[wgdsr]

yeah. they're capped if they want to play in that sandbox. they can go to another sandbox if it works better for them. free market.
they'd also be capped if they wanted to get into federal government work. or if they wanted to be a teacher in ohio. or a union employee.

if they were good enough to go pro, they'll be capped there also for at least awhile. and if they're the best at what they do, they'll be told where they have to work, and for whom. the very, very best often with a dysfunctional franchise.

if they choose to go the college route and they're good enough, they'll have the opportunity to choose where they want to play and for whom.

your argument is that amateur sports is illegal. that an organization cannot choose to have their participants play as amateurs and not employees. just don't share that opinion. colleges provide what they provide in the way of compensation. you can take it or leave it. i don't believe the government should be dictating whether or not you can set up amateur athletics around an educational foundation. and i don't think they're infringing on the american way to do it.

the huge money now surrounding college athletics means these conversations were coming, and now we're here. the nc$$ has no one to blame but themselves for how they've handled their business re: athletes for decades. nickel and dime people, and they get fed up.

[a fan]

yeah. they're capped if they want to play in that sandbox. they can go to another sandbox if it works better for them. free market.
they'd also be capped if they wanted to get into federal government work. or if they wanted to be a teacher in ohio. or a union employee.

Not true. A federal government worker can moonlight, or appear in a commercial, or use his or her skills in any legal way they wish. So can a union employee. Just had a union carpenter building our new expansion at work come to my house over the weekend to install some bar doors.

Athlete can't do this.

In addition, the union worker, by and large, has no value outside of work. A star college athlete can be worth millions.

your argument is that amateur sports is illegal.

No. My argument is that it is exploitative and ridiculous for every part of the system to be professional, while the players and the players alone are supposed to be amateur. It doesn't square.

Know what John Wooden, was paid per year in 1948, adjusted for inflation? $57,994. Know what room and board is for UCLA? $54,957.

So my Nick Saban argument was spot on. You could solidly claim that the SYSTEM was amateur back in Wooden's early days. Every got a fair piece of the pie. So, of course, few complained about the set up. It sounded fair on its face.

As for the current coach at Duke Basketball? He makes an obscene 154 times more than Wooden did, adjusted for inflation. That's obviously the problem, and it's ridiculous and exploitative to give the coach that much, and give the kids $54K per year.

It's not even a discussion. You can't pay Coach K $8.4 million, and claim this is amateur sports. Not with a straight face.

[wgdsr]

yeah. they're capped if they want to play in that sandbox. they can go to another sandbox if it works better for them. free market.
they'd also be capped if they wanted to get into federal government work. or if they wanted to be a teacher in ohio. or a union employee.

Not true. A federal government worker can moonlight, or appear in a commercial, or use his or her skills in any legal way they wish. So can a union employee. Just had a union carpenter building our new expansion at work come to my house over the weekend to install some bar doors.
and i say --- not true. an athlete can absolutely get a job (over the summer) and come over to your house over the weekend and install your bar doors. he just can't do it if you're a booster and he's getting pay someone else that wasn't a football player couldn't get. and the federal government worker wouldn't be appearing in any commercials.

Athlete can't do this.

In addition, the union worker, by and large, has no value outside of work. A star college athlete can be worth millions.
yes. exactly. because they'd be leveraging the college and the union worker doesn't have a college to leverage. if the college wasn't there,then the star athlete wouldn't be a star athlete. and the colleges want to set the rules that prevent the pandora's box from making the whole construct something entirely different than what it is.

your argument is that amateur sports is illegal.

No. My argument is that it is exploitative and ridiculous for every part of the system to be professional, while the players and the players alone are supposed to be amateur. It doesn't square.

Know what John Wooden, was paid per year in 1948, adjusted for inflation? $57,994. Know what room and board is for UCLA? $54,957.

So my Nick Saban argument was spot on. You could solidly claim that the SYSTEM was amateur back in Wooden's early days. Every got a fair piece of the pie. So, of course, few complained about the set up. It sounded fair on its face.

As for the current coach at Duke Basketball? He makes an obscene 154 times more than Wooden did, adjusted for inflation. That's obviously the problem, and it's ridiculous and exploitative to give the coach that much, and give the kids $54K per year.

It's not even a discussion. You can't pay Coach K $8.4 million, and claim this is amateur sports. Not with a straight face.

you're a reasonable guy. but if i had a nickel for every time someone said on here there's no discussion and their way is correct and if you disagree you're a loon i'd be -- in a college coach's tax bracket.
the whole rest of this argument is a matter of degrees on money. sorry, just don't agree that because it's a lot more money involved, now it's no longer amateur and everyone including players have to be paid/earn money.
i believe, as i've said and you've read --- is on the principal of an organization to be able to set their own rules. hard stop. an organization should be able to set up an amateur sports league. that's voluntary to join. because it becomes wildly successful doesn't change that perspective for me.

i don't know how it all ends --- but my guess is many athletics spots are eliminated. coaches, athletes, administrators. any number of conferences become football and basketball, maybe only, on the mens side. women's sports will be cut down as well to fit those numbers. some athletes that play football and basketball will be paid handsomely, before a few of those guys earn even more money in their 2nd professional league.
regardless of the carnage, we can all sit back and say we stopped the growth of communism.
p.s. ucla is in the mid-60's for cost of attendance, which is what i think can be covered.