Hobart 2024

[Laxgunea]

This was the shakiest start I've seen in some years. Players seemed stunned, and I attribute it to first game jitters. Colgate played solidly, and they came out hard. We were immediately on our heels. After one quarter we settled a bit, but the damage was done. After the first quarter we didn't so much get outplayed as never pulled ourselves together long enough to avoid missed passes and turnovers. Fortunately, Colgate was also sloppy, so we still had a chance until the 4th.
FMUBart is right that the O missed opportunities. It almost looked like Ward's hands were cold. Passes were not consistently crisp. We also took some softball shots. I wish Bach would shoot more. He's got a rocket. Dattelas played very well, as did Delano ... Rosa put a couple of beauties in, but getting the ball to him was harder for us than it should have been.
The 10 man ride left us dazed and confused. I did not think we negotiated it well. We often missed seeing open corners and the attack and midfield were not actively moving. Basically, our clears showed immaturity and low lacrosse IQ. That will improve.
Wilson wasn't seeing the ball and the first three shots were from point blank. He seemed shell-shocked after that. Defense was inexperienced. Firth played excellently. The other two, whose numbers I forget, were a step off, as you would expect from FY players. They showed nerves.
She was in top form. Our wing play needs improvement. After an initial win, too many scrums for ground-based went to Colgate.
Not a strong opening day, but not cause for a return to D3 ( a discussion I hope is permanently banned from this thread). They just have lots to work on. No need to panic. On to Michigan....

[FMUBart]

DJU always said that teams improve the most from game 1 to game 2...fingers crossed. Need more movement offensively as there was too much standing around & D was too nice. On-ball defenders need to be more physical(right cooperstef?) and the groundball effort has got to improve as well.

[Farfromgeneva]

The Michigan over/under is already set at 22…for just them

[Farfromgeneva]

I'm not up to speed on the recent Colgate games re: thuggery...But, now with Lemoyne--and we picked up UAlbany this year--there are enough local teams that playing Colgate is definitely unnecessary. Heck, could even pick up Bucknell or Army. Both relatively short trips. With regard to the long time Hobart trainer(RIP), let's just say it was a different time when he ruled the training room...

Back then I thought he was cool as heck. Now think back to guys who had broken bones who were told they needed “a can of suck it up” and shake my head. But my point was to the youngster in the post modern, post NYT world educating on toughness in sports

So true I played football too and when we got concussions we were told ha u got ur bell rung and sent back out to play. Crazy when u think about it now. I had at least 6 concussions I can remember maybe more. That's from peewee to college.

Good friend of mine. Mix of damage from high level N Jersey Football (i was also
Once in a fight with him against a couple of NJ Devils and saw him get smashed good by Scott Gomez who was a nasty hockey player back in the day) and college lacrosse (at Brown).

I saw his decline and it was tragic.

https://concussionfoundation.org/person ... -albarelli

[Farfromgeneva]

This was the shakiest start I've seen in some years. Players seemed stunned, and I attribute it to first game jitters. Colgate played solidly, and they came out hard. We were immediately on our heels. After one quarter we settled a bit, but the damage was done. After the first quarter we didn't so much get outplayed as never pulled ourselves together long enough to avoid missed passes and turnovers. Fortunately, Colgate was also sloppy, so we still had a chance until the 4th.
FMUBart is right that the O missed opportunities. It almost looked like Ward's hands were cold. Passes were not consistently crisp. We also took some softball shots. I wish Bach would shoot more. He's got a rocket. Dattelas played very well, as did Delano ... Rosa put a couple of beauties in, but getting the ball to him was harder for us than it should have been.
The 10 man ride left us dazed and confused. I did not think we negotiated it well. We often missed seeing open corners and the attack and midfield were not actively moving. Basically, our clears showed immaturity and low lacrosse IQ. That will improve.
Wilson wasn't seeing the ball and the first three shots were from point blank. He seemed shell-shocked after that. Defense was inexperienced. Firth played excellently. The other two, whose numbers I forget, were a step off, as you would expect from FY players. They showed nerves.
She was in top form. Our wing play needs improvement. After an initial win, too many scrums for ground-based went to Colgate.
Not a strong opening day, but not cause for a return to D3 ( a discussion I hope is permanently banned from this thread). They just have lots to work on. No need to panic. On to Michigan....

Bach needs to look in the mirror and finally recognize he’s a fng stud and go take this game into his hands. Watched Barthelme make that growth leap last year and Bach is, respectfully, a far more forceful and dynamic athlete. Kid could be running around like a Perkovic is he just believes in himself. Like way back sets hockey they added a special move feature when Eric lindros was early in his career and his move was to skate through a defensive player with the puck, injure that defender and score. Chad Bach could do the “Lindros” IMO.

Then again player confidence has been a common theme during the Raymond tenure. Anyone ever ask Tanner John about his experience in Geneva?

[Farfromgeneva]

This was the shakiest start I've seen in some years. Players seemed stunned, and I attribute it to first game jitters. Colgate played solidly, and they came out hard. We were immediately on our heels. After one quarter we settled a bit, but the damage was done. After the first quarter we didn't so much get outplayed as never pulled ourselves together long enough to avoid missed passes and turnovers. Fortunately, Colgate was also sloppy, so we still had a chance until the 4th.
FMUBart is right that the O missed opportunities. It almost looked like Ward's hands were cold. Passes were not consistently crisp. We also took some softball shots. I wish Bach would shoot more. He's got a rocket. Dattelas played very well, as did Delano ... Rosa put a couple of beauties in, but getting the ball to him was harder for us than it should have been.
The 10 man ride left us dazed and confused. I did not think we negotiated it well. We often missed seeing open corners and the attack and midfield were not actively moving. Basically, our clears showed immaturity and low lacrosse IQ. That will improve.
Wilson wasn't seeing the ball and the first three shots were from point blank. He seemed shell-shocked after that. Defense was inexperienced. Firth played excellently. The other two, whose numbers I forget, were a step off, as you would expect from FY players. They showed nerves.
She was in top form. Our wing play needs improvement. After an initial win, too many scrums for ground-based went to Colgate.
Not a strong opening day, but not cause for a return to D3 ( a discussion I hope is permanently banned from this thread). They just have lots to work on. No need to panic. On to Michigan....

I missed it to take kids to a show (Hamilton in Atlanta got yelled at for screen brightness with the live stats on). But listening wearily it sounded like we were rising two short sticks as wings on FO? Was that all day because that’s insane

[Laxgunea]

No not all day.
Tanner John was complicated. Nice guy, unbelievably hard shot, but created much of his own situation.

[Ketch]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

[Farfromgeneva]

No not all day.
Tanner John was complicated. Nice guy, unbelievably hard shot, but created much of his own situation.

Tanner was invited to come being vastly unprepared for that environment and was treated like a kid who sailed through Avon old Farms or Hotchkiss who wasted an upbringing of resources and opportunity. Raymond was a young HC and knew less but I see the same treatment of these kids today. Some get ruined early and never contribute who literally have all conference abilities. If they aren’t prepared immediately for everything they’re kind of tossed aside and given up on pretty quickly. When you have a kid like Tanner, the second you go down that path as oversee, HC, mentor you’ve lost him. Some of these kids were done before jr year, and kept for avg gpa or other reasons, that should really just be cut at that stage and I feel like the coaches know it.

Zach Reed even with injuries is another example. Constantly yanked in and out. I’ve heard podcast comments on allowing kids to play through mistakes but I don’t see it all that much universally but rather selectively to chosen kids. Not to make it sound like one of those “he plays favorites” complaints but for example I love Will delanos game and glad he was able to play through a lot of unforced errors last year. But other Sophs with a 20-21% shooting on volume and not good Gb/TO ratio as a soph is done. Same with middies. Other kids shoot liek Simas and they don’t get five years of near unlimited run. Simas was bizarre because he was as talented as any kiddie we’ve had in more than a decade imo but it never quite clicked into that “who’s this kid at Hobart?” Season

[Ketch]

We definitely looked like a team playing its first game against a good team with two tough games already under its belt. We didn't play well all day, but at the very least we did play Colgate even score-wise after that horrendous start. So let's look at the positive. We will play better.

I thought that the rookie keeper Faiola looked pretty sharp once he came in and I'd give him the next start. Colgate's goalie was stellar.

FFG, yes we did for a time play two shorties on the wings for face-offs. Don't recall how long that lasted. Didn't really make any difference. Either Shea wins the draw to himself or we don't get the ball. It's that simple. He did a great job of it today. His stat line would have been even better if the officials had kept the Colgate fogo from going early several times.

[Farfromgeneva]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

I know he’s not in support of that position.

[Farfromgeneva]

We definitely looked like a team playing its first game against a good team with two tough games already under its belt. We didn't play well all day, but at the very least we did play Colgate even score-wise after that horrendous start. So let's look at the positive. We will play better.

I thought that the rookie keeper Faiola looked pretty sharp once he came in and I'd give him the next start. Colgate's goalie was stellar.

FFG, yes we did for a time play two shorties on the wings for face-offs. Don't recall how long that lasted. Didn't really make any difference. Either Shea wins the draw to himself or we don't get the ball. It's that simple. He did a great job of it today. His stat line would have been even better if the officials had kept the Colgate fogo from going early several times.

Why can’t we ever get good wing play? Should be a specialization I’d think:

[Ketch]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

I know he’s not in support of that position.

I realize he's not in support of that position. But why bring it up at all, in whatever context?

[Farfromgeneva]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

I know he’s not in support of that position.

I realize he's not in support of that position. But why bring it up at all, in whatever context?

Yeah I hear you. But I know he doesn’t want to hear it either so presume he’s front running anyone who’s got the idea to run with that flag.

I’m more removed since moving south (14yrs ago now) but get the sense that the glory day alums who assume we’d roll d3 easy peazy again are declining in number. Not as much push for that as 15yrs ago. The only thing I’d like Hobart to look like from even when I graduated let alone the D3 days is the USNWR rank and our relative position in endowment vs peers.

[Laxgunea]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

I know he’s not in support of that position.

I realize he's not in support of that position. But why bring it up at all, in whatever context?

Yeah I hear you. But I know he doesn’t want to hear it either so presume he’s front running anyone who’s got the idea to run with that flag.

I’m more removed since moving south (14yrs ago now) but get the sense that the glory day alums who assume we’d roll d3 easy peazy again are declining in number. Not as much push for that as 15yrs ago. The only thing I’d like Hobart to look like from even when I graduated let alone the D3 days is the USNWR rank and our relative position in endowment vs peers.

I hope not.
I'm with you on coaching through mistakes. We have a tendency to get tight, which comes from a fear of mistakes. Close D needs to be less mechanical. Except Firth was great today.
I agree on Bach. I know he injures easily, but they need to let him shoot more and be more spontaneous

[Bartfromboston]

We have a big problem with depth. Either 40 kids shouldn’t be playing D1 or Raymond is relying on way too small a group. They are all tired by the third quarter. We basically play 4 attack and maybe 3-4 o mids. Once you get 20 minutes you are stuck because everyone is cold and can’t come in that point. Defense and d mid is a little better. Our offensive is underwhelming and we need to step it up or add more kids to the rotation. I agree with the comments on Bach. He needs to take over. I thought Delano looked very good.

[Farfromgeneva]

That was about as bad a start as possible. The “go back D3” crowd is going to get loud if this is how we continue to look.

Can’t play D or O, down 6-1 after 1. Ugh.

You do the program a real disservice by even mentioning that topic AT ALL.

I know he’s not in support of that position.

I realize he's not in support of that position. But why bring it up at all, in whatever context?

Yeah I hear you. But I know he doesn’t want to hear it either so presume he’s front running anyone who’s got the idea to run with that flag.

I’m more removed since moving south (14yrs ago now) but get the sense that the glory day alums who assume we’d roll d3 easy peazy again are declining in number. Not as much push for that as 15yrs ago. The only thing I’d like Hobart to look like from even when I graduated let alone the D3 days is the USNWR rank and our relative position in endowment vs peers.

I hope not.
I'm with you on coaching through mistakes. We have a tendency to get tight, which comes from a fear of mistakes. Close D needs to be less mechanical. Except Firth was great today.
I agree on Bach. I know he injures easily, but they need to let him shoot more and be more spontaneous

Yeah we need jazz Hobart sometimes not trip that stick like the first time you discovered the joys of a locked bathroom as a teenager.

It could be as simple as they had two games against elite competition in hand and we got jumped. Obviously that raises different questions of how that could happen repeatedly over the years and not to the top teams usually more peer programs.

It just feels like a perpetual prevent defense, like tonight’s SB. Playing to not make mistakes which is incredibly difficult to come back against or put down a run in that mode. Do I want the old Kerwick suave “grab every talent you can and hope they stay but don’t really care about it attrition and just roll the ball out and see what Billy Pilgrim means by “so it goes”? No. But would like to skew that way a little. Question is whether Raymond is confident enough in what’s he’s doing to give up some control. Should use that “yo I got job offers so I’m gonna need a raise” negotiating BDE he had a few years back when PTon was sniffing around come game time.

Anyways hate to harp on coaching but the same things a decade later gets frustrating. And I think the talent is there to be a 2 seed or so in the A10
Tourney and 2-3 games above .500 with this team. Though I’m starting to wonder how thin we are at LSM and Close D w. FR and barely played as FR playing close D and galaini out. Hopefully whichever SSDM got hurt is ok and Ellis W and Jack F figure out who’s taking that goalie spot for the next couple of years quick.

[Farfromgeneva]

We have a big problem with depth. Either 40 kids shouldn’t be playing D1 or Raymond is relying on way too small a group. They are all tired by the third quarter. We basically play 4 attack and maybe 3-4 o mids. Once you get 20 minutes you are stuck because everyone is cold and can’t come in that point. Defense and d mid is a little better. Our offensive is underwhelming and we need to step it up or add more kids to the rotation. I agree with the comments on Bach. He needs to take over. I thought Delano looked very good.

Wait until April when we will see about 20-25 play per game. But we’re in a state of “needing the dues” which is probably also why multiple kids weren’t accepted into the masters program for this calendar year. I chatted with a professor involved with that program recently while visiting campus (recently being Oct) and they need to make it a “real program” and so waiving in kids internally from undergrad when the school sees that kids on the roster aren’t playing and these weren’t the Holden/archer types but did play. One I really like watching and we could really really use at LSM this year. So they can’t just let every athlete in and not sure where Raymond’s credibility (not likeability) is from wasting HWS resources a few times (think Ty Yanko and throwing more money at him for Jr & St years when he was going back to Canada and then never playing him after having the colleges step up.

Few years back we ran the “six best” who were all effectively A/Ms (Aslanian, Holden, Justin Scott, Ryan Archer, Tommy Mott, Derrek Madonna and Jason Knox who was the only guy who was purely an A). Thought that might be how we ran this offense but that may have been pre Brundage under Poillon. In this setup you won’t see a 6th attack all season absent injury. I’d be shocked if they go deeper than Ward most of the season. Figured Stilwell would get out there at M a little this year as one of the more productive but it don’t look like swisher played who’s a more natural M as I understand it (internet, clips, nothing scientific but one is a lot more comfortable around the cage).

Other big issues is we need Herlihy to find his 20-21 shooting touch. Peterkin and Green have been given a ton of opps and it’s time to really harvest those two for yield now. If we get more out of those three we’re back to ignoring the O and focusing on kid and back half of field again.

Unloading a bit how and you never know but there’s a handful of games that make or break the season setting aside conference matters. This year those games are:

Gate (L)
RoMo
Albany
LeMoyne
(conf) High Point/Umass/St Joes

Being practical hard to predict a non loss to Mich, Cornell, Syracuse and I’d include Richmond. So my baseline is 2-4 before the above games. We have to go 5-2 in these games to have a “successful” season IMO (not really but satisfied) to go 7-6 before A10 playoffs. Now we need to be 5-1 against RoMo, Albany, LeMoyne, HPU, UMass & St Joes. Or beat one or more of: Mich, Cornell, Cuse & richmond.

[Farfromgeneva]

Bright spot is Patterson is for real. He will be recognized early and often in the conference and elsewhere.

[oldbartman]

I did not watch the game. I've heard from numerous friends that we were terrible for the first 25 minutes. One of my friends who did watch the game and is a neutral Navy alum had a few "descriptive" words for me. He said our D looked "inept for a major chunk of the game". He went on to say the D looked "totally disorganized". Another observation was the offense "looked like it was winging it for most of the game". Since I trust this friend, and the score seems to support it, I have to wonder What the heck is the coaching staff doing? Looking at our stats from the game, it reads like last years names and numbers minus Christiansen and Synott. We can't have Herlihy, Delano, Considine and Peterkin shooting a combined 2 for 20. That doesn't work at any level except maybe high school. The D gave little support to Wilson in Q1 according to the box score. I hope FMU is right that a team does it's largest improvements between games 1 and 2. Luckily Michigan will take it's wrath out on Canisius before we get to see what B1G lax is. Lots to work on. Let's hope this kind of game doesn't happen again.