NESCAC

[laxdad1434]

Definitions for me:
Low D1: NJIY, Hampton, Lowell, Canisius, Queens, Wagner, Cleveland St, Detroit Mercy, Lindenwood (RIP), Bonnys, LIU, VMI, St Johns, Sacred Heart
(leaving out HCross, Dartmouth, Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette because even though historically bad, these are the teams that compete with the below D3s for recruits and I dont think they would do as well against these teams, except maybe HC)
High D3 academic / lax: top 7 NESCAC
Mid-High D3 academic + Lax: Dickinson, Gettysburg, top 3 Liberty, Stevens, Denison, Kenyon, Swat, W&L
High D3 Lax: CNU, Salisbury, York

Im going to go out on a limb and say the gap between low D1 and high D3 is much more slim than high D3 and low d3. I think any of the NESCAC top players would do very well on those Low D1 teams listed above. They chose not to go there likely for academic reasons. IF the high D3 teams + Salisbury/CNU and some of the LIberty teams were to play the low D1 teams straight up, I think it would be 50/50 and I dont think they would get "crushed" or "destroyed" as was previously pointed out

I think 'smoovas' earlier point about recruitment is most salient. At least here in the Northeast, the pecking order of recruitment is high D1, mid D1 / High D3, low D1 / high D2 / mid D3 and then everyone else We routinely see clubs and prep schools post their commits and the low D1s are often very late. My own person experience had my son still getting D1 reach outs well into his Senior year. Now does earlier recruitment necessarily translate into better players? Not necessarily but it is a general rule of thumb that probably holds true. But the point that someone said that the low D1 programs would be salivating to have some of the high D3 programs is true. The reality is players at those mid-high D3 colleges would rather go to their respective schools then go low-mid D1

The comparison to football and basketball is totally ludicrous. Totally different demographic recruiting base and much greater depth of talent across basketball and football. I would say lacrosse recruiting for high academic D3 is much closer to squash, swimming, golf, tennis, fencing and crew then basketball and football.

Love this discussion though. Love to see an active board. My one troll (but not entirely untrue) comment: I think if you gave Brunswick, Lawrenceville, St Anthonys, McDonough, GPRep, Culver kids 1-2 years of maturity (not as 18 year olds), they would hold their own against low D1 teams.

Disclaimer: No dog in this fight. Not a NESCAC dad.

[ChopMan23]

The starting goalie for Duke was a D3 guy! Cannot forget about Will Helm!

[SouthieLax]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

[laxdad1434]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

[Laxxal22]

There are more examples of guys who went from D3 to top 30 D1 with their Covid eligibility and had success than guys who went from low D1 to top 30 D1.

Look at the transfer portal then get back to me.

Why do we have to prove you wrong but the reverse isn’t true? Who from a bottom 25 D1 program has done anything after transferring?

[laxdad1434]

Definitions for me:
Low D1: NJIY, Hampton, Lowell, Canisius, Queens, Wagner, Cleveland St, Detroit Mercy, Lindenwood (RIP), Bonnys, LIU, VMI, St Johns, Sacred Heart
(leaving out HCross, Dartmouth, Bucknell, Colgate, Lafayette because even though historically bad, these are the teams that compete with the below D3s for recruits and I dont think they would do as well against these teams, except maybe HC)
High D3 academic / lax: top 7 NESCAC
Mid-High D3 academic + Lax: Dickinson, Gettysburg, top 3 Liberty, Stevens, Denison, Kenyon, Swat, W&L
High D3 Lax: CNU, Salisbury, York

Im going to go out on a limb and say the gap between low D1 and high D3 is much more slim than high D3 and low d3. I think any of the NESCAC top players would do very well on those Low D1 teams listed above. They chose not to go there likely for academic reasons. IF the high D3 teams + Salisbury/CNU and some of the LIberty teams were to play the low D1 teams straight up, I think it would be 50/50 and I dont think they would get "crushed" or "destroyed" as was previously pointed out

I think 'smoovas' earlier point about recruitment is most salient. At least here in the Northeast, the pecking order of recruitment is high D1, mid D1 / High D3, low D1 / high D2 / mid D3 and then everyone else We routinely see clubs and prep schools post their commits and the low D1s are often very late. My own person experience had my son still getting D1 reach outs well into his Senior year. Now does earlier recruitment necessarily translate into better players? Not necessarily but it is a general rule of thumb that probably holds true. But the point that someone said that the low D1 programs would be salivating to have some of the high D3 programs is true. The reality is players at those mid-high D3 colleges would rather go to their respective schools then go low-mid D1

The comparison to football and basketball is totally ludicrous. Totally different demographic recruiting base and much greater depth of talent across basketball and football. I would say lacrosse recruiting for high academic D3 is much closer to squash, swimming, golf, tennis, fencing and crew then basketball and football.

Love this discussion though. Love to see an active board. My one troll (but not entirely untrue) comment: I think if you gave Brunswick, Lawrenceville, St Anthonys, McDonough, GPRep, Culver kids 1-2 years of maturity (not as 18 year olds), they would hold their own against low D1 teams.

Disclaimer: No dog in this fight. Not a NESCAC dad.

I disagree with your "ludicrous" statement. Football and lacrosse are more similar to each other then any other sport. Most are multi sport athletes, most played both sports. Roster sizes are both 40+ players, and high academic schools recruit from the same pool, apples to apples. So demographics play no part.

Comparison D3/D1 football/lacrosse:
Football - Williams 80 players, Princeton 90. They recruit form the same pool of players, with the same academic restrictions. Does anybody really think Williams could play with Princeton?

Lacrosse - Williams 45 players, Princeton 60. They recruit form the same pool of players, with the same academic restrictions. 30-10 Princeton on a running clock.

There's a reason for the different divisions. Players at D1 are bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled.

[SouthieLax]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

Wow. Really grasping at straws now.

[laxdad1434]

There are more examples of guys who went from D3 to top 30 D1 with their Covid eligibility and had success than guys who went from low D1 to top 30 D1.

Look at the transfer portal then get back to me.

Why do we have to prove you wrong but the reverse isn’t true? Who from a bottom 25 D1 program has done anything after transferring?

Winkoff - PSU
McLane - Brown
McGovern - NC
Minicus - GTown
Kirst Bros - Rutgers/Cuse
Too many to list

[laxdad1434]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

Wow. Really grasping at straws now.

I can't fix your problem...seek medical attention

[SouthieLax]

You don’t realize Walbaum played a full season at Tufts in 2021 do you?

[Laxxal22]

There are more examples of guys who went from D3 to top 30 D1 with their Covid eligibility and had success than guys who went from low D1 to top 30 D1.

Look at the transfer portal then get back to me.

Why do we have to prove you wrong but the reverse isn’t true? Who from a bottom 25 D1 program has done anything after transferring?

Winkoff - PSU
McLane - Brown
McGovern - NC
Minicus - GTown
Kirst Bros - Rutgers/Cuse
Too many to list

Those guys played on mid-tier teams. Where are the players from Binghamton, LIU, NJIT, Bellarmine, etc.?

[smoova]

Where are the players from Binghamton, LIU, NJIT, Bellarmine, etc.?

Those kids typically transfer to mid D3s, which are on par with the lowest D1s ...

[BanksAndTheBeanStalk]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

Dude you're fighting a whole forum on this one, we get it you kid played at NJIT and is having success in the CLC now. Good for him. The top D3 teams have scrimmaged given ranked D1 teams good games.

Tufts up 8-4 after 1 and 11-7 at half. Tufts goalie has been big and #33 has been shooting at a high percentage and Tufts has been pushing transition, as usual. Faceoff has been about 50/50. Dartmouth has scored on a few crease looks with slow 2 slides. Nice day for lacrosse!

As noted, Tufts up 11- 7 at half, and then Tufts started subbing its 2nd/3rd line guys across the board. Dartmouth kept running its starters and tied it up in 3rd. Tufts pulled away again by a few, but basically played its bench in the 4th and the "scrimmage" ended in a 17-17 draw. They reset the scoreboard and played a 5th quarter, and Tufts Freshmen were up 4-0 on Dmouth Freshman at the end of the 5th.

That's my recollection at least.

There's the results of Dartmouth/Tufts from last year. Keep in mind this scrimmage was a Tufts team that had no fall ball, very strict league rules about meeting with coaches, and had started spring practice only 5 days earlier. Like yeah it's a scrimmage but an NJIT scrimmage is beneath Tufts and most of its peers in the NESCAC and D3. (That should not be a controversial statement). Thank you for giving us the sparknotes on the entire transfer portal but that point doesn't really matter for either side. If you are arguing which TEAM would win, the better coached top D3 teams would beat low level D1 teams consistently.

[laxdad1434]

You don’t realize Walbaum played a full season at Tufts in 2021 do you?

https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/mens-l ... dbaum/3355

Bredahl was the man those years. Probably the reason he left with Bredahl having a year left. Also, at JU he was a 22/23 year old senior/grad. More mature, stronger, that being said his #'s dropped in 2023.

https://judolphins.com/sports/mens-lacr ... dbaum/5239

[Unknown Participant]

M Waldbaum missed some time w/an injury that cost him some games in 2023. I think it hampered him when he did play. He was pretty dominant in his first year at JU.

MTA: Waldbaum did not leave Tufts because of Bredahl . To stay at Tufts for a fifth year, you had to find/create a worthwhile masters program and I don't think he could do that.

And to respond to another prior post re. the Dartmouth game(s), in fall 2021 (and maybe even 2020 (age does not help my memory)), Nescac actually had fall practices led by the coaching staff. I think the powers that be wanted the teams to spend more supervised time together instead of spreading Covid among the NARPs as f'n stupid as that sounds/was. But Tufts was the better team in each of the 2021 game and the 2022 scrimmage. It wasn't even because of speed/size, Dartmouth clearly had larger players with great athletic ability, but Tufts played better as a team, had better sticks and execution and appeared to have the edge in will-to-win. That's what I witnessed anyways.

[SouthieLax]

You don’t realize Walbaum played a full season at Tufts in 2021 do you?

https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/mens-l ... dbaum/3355

Bredahl was the man those years. Probably the reason he left with Bredahl having a year left. Also, at JU he was a 22/23 year old senior/grad. More mature, stronger, that being said his #'s dropped in 2023.

https://judolphins.com/sports/mens-lacr ... dbaum/5239

Amazing. Now I get it, you are AI and having an hallucination. Let me be clear, Walbaum played at Tufts in 2021. The link you provided is out of date. This is not debatable, it’s reality. He had 32 pts in 2021.

He was 2nd team All-NESCAC, 7 of his teammates were 1st team including the other two starters at attack. All of which would have been equally dominate players if they had moved to D1.

[laxdad1434]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

Dude you're fighting a whole forum on this one, we get it you kid played at NJIT and is having success in the CLC now. Good for him. The top D3 teams have scrimmaged given ranked D1 teams good games.

Tufts up 8-4 after 1 and 11-7 at half. Tufts goalie has been big and #33 has been shooting at a high percentage and Tufts has been pushing transition, as usual. Faceoff has been about 50/50. Dartmouth has scored on a few crease looks with slow 2 slides. Nice day for lacrosse!

As noted, Tufts up 11- 7 at half, and then Tufts started subbing its 2nd/3rd line guys across the board. Dartmouth kept running its starters and tied it up in 3rd. Tufts pulled away again by a few, but basically played its bench in the 4th and the "scrimmage" ended in a 17-17 draw. They reset the scoreboard and played a 5th quarter, and Tufts Freshmen were up 4-0 on Dmouth Freshman at the end of the 5th.

That's my recollection at least.

There's the results of Dartmouth/Tufts from last year. Keep in mind this scrimmage was a Tufts team that had no fall ball, very strict league rules about meeting with coaches, and had started spring practice only 5 days earlier. Like yeah it's a scrimmage but an NJIT scrimmage is beneath Tufts and most of its peers in the NESCAC and D3. (That should not be a controversial statement). Thank you for giving us the sparknotes on the entire transfer portal but that point doesn't really matter for either side. If you are arguing which TEAM would win, the better coached top D3 teams would beat low level D1 teams consistently.

A scrimmage...one scrimmage, that's what you're going with? So you believed Salisbury was better than Drexel in 2021? They'd have to be right, they won a scrimmage Drexel went 10-2 that year, won their conf and almost beat ND in the tourney. But Salisbury won a scrimmage, so they must be better. Except, Drexel treated it like a SCRIMMAGE, Salisbury treated like a tourney game.

[laxdad1434]

You don’t realize Walbaum played a full season at Tufts in 2021 do you?

https://gotuftsjumbos.com/sports/mens-l ... dbaum/3355

Bredahl was the man those years. Probably the reason he left with Bredahl having a year left. Also, at JU he was a 22/23 year old senior/grad. More mature, stronger, that being said his #'s dropped in 2023.

https://judolphins.com/sports/mens-lacr ... dbaum/5239

Amazing. Now I get it, you are AI and having an hallucination. Let me be clear, Walbaum played at Tufts in 2021. The link you provided is out of date. This is not debatable, it’s reality. He had 32 pts in 2021.

He was 2nd team All-NESCAC, 7 of his teammates were 1st team including the other two starters at attack. All of which would have been equally dominate players if they had moved to D1.

Genius, do you know how to navigate a web page? That shows every year he played for Tufts, 18,19,20,21. Reading is fundamental...just sayin.

[SouthieLax]

Then what is your point? Your post above about COVID year etc…why does that support your position or mean anything?

[Unknown Participant]

All over the place? I've been consistent throughout this thread. This isn't about one player, it's about the illusion that NESCACians have about the league. Are the players good, absolutely, but there's reasons they're playing D3, not as big, fast, strong, skilled as most D1 players. Some like the relaxed day to day schedules. Are there exceptions, yup, and many have been listed. But they're all exceptions. For F*#K sake man, you're talking about less then 1% of the players in the league having success at the D1 level.

I have know idea how many failed with the transition, probably not many, because it make only sense that the D1 team knows what they're getting. They're not offering a spot to questionable player or a backup.

They aren’t exceptions, they are just the only ones who transferred. Walbaum was never first team All-NESCAC, he only achieved that in D1. What about the 25 guys who made All-NESCAC his last year at Tufts, how would they have done? Likewise, McCormack peaked at 2nd team All-NESCAC once, what about the 1st Teamers his last year at Midd?

Look at the years they played D3...we had this little thing called COVID going around. a season was cancelled after 4 games, MW only played in 1. Schedules were shortened, practices were limited. Where do you think the got their extra year from?

Dude you're fighting a whole forum on this one, we get it you kid played at NJIT and is having success in the CLC now. Good for him. The top D3 teams have scrimmaged given ranked D1 teams good games.

Tufts up 8-4 after 1 and 11-7 at half. Tufts goalie has been big and #33 has been shooting at a high percentage and Tufts has been pushing transition, as usual. Faceoff has been about 50/50. Dartmouth has scored on a few crease looks with slow 2 slides. Nice day for lacrosse!

As noted, Tufts up 11- 7 at half, and then Tufts started subbing its 2nd/3rd line guys across the board. Dartmouth kept running its starters and tied it up in 3rd. Tufts pulled away again by a few, but basically played its bench in the 4th and the "scrimmage" ended in a 17-17 draw. They reset the scoreboard and played a 5th quarter, and Tufts Freshmen were up 4-0 on Dmouth Freshman at the end of the 5th.

That's my recollection at least.

There's the results of Dartmouth/Tufts from last year. Keep in mind this scrimmage was a Tufts team that had no fall ball, very strict league rules about meeting with coaches, and had started spring practice only 5 days earlier. Like yeah it's a scrimmage but an NJIT scrimmage is beneath Tufts and most of its peers in the NESCAC and D3. (That should not be a controversial statement). Thank you for giving us the sparknotes on the entire transfer portal but that point doesn't really matter for either side. If you are arguing which TEAM would win, the better coached top D3 teams would beat low level D1 teams consistently.

A scrimmage...one scrimmage, that's what you're going with? So you believed Salisbury was better than Drexel in 2021? They'd have to be right, they won a scrimmage Drexel went 10-2 that year, won their conf and almost beat ND in the tourney. But Salisbury won a scrimmage, so they must be better. Except, Drexel treated it like a SCRIMMAGE, Salisbury treated like a tourney game.

Laxdad, you're reading comprehension is not too good apparently.

In 2021, Tufts/Dartmouth played a GAME and Tufts won handily. In 2022, they scrimmaged and Tufts was rolling, and then started subbing liberally while Dartmouth did not. Tufts would have won by 11-13 if starters stayed in. I was at the event. Were you?

Are you in another airport delay ffs?