old salt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:28 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:08 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:44 pm
a fan wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:33 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:14 pm
In every study I click on, it's a given that there's an achievement gap between single & 2 parent homes.
Me, too....but those studies are American. Looking at other countries that have a higher rate of single parent homes yet have better educational outcomes, obviously something else is happening here in the US that isn't happening in EU countries. In other words, it's correlated, not causal. We're missing the cause. I don't know what the cause is.
I clicked on studies that included the EU as well. They also cite an achievement gap between single & 2 parent homes.
Not as large a gap as the US & a smaller % of single family homes. https://www.educationnext.org/internati ... nt-family/
old salt wrote: ↑Sat Jul 08, 2023 5:14 pm
It's not woke PC to acknowledge that it's a factor. We need the votes of single women, especially black single moms, grannies, aunties & women voters who grew up in those homes. Can't insult them. The nuc family is an archaic relic of white privilege. The village can do it.
The nuclear family is
specifically a relic of privileged whites, my man...starting post WWII with the rise of the American middle class.
The rest of America's history, and for most minorities? You had multi-generational households..."the village", as you put it.
Family, including extended family, is not "the village". Hillary didn't limit her village to extended family.
The Post War Nuclear family got rid of that. Do you want to blame that for our educational problems?
It's a factor that should not be dismissed or minimized, imo.
Of course it's a factor, but not the primary factor, and somehow the Europeans overcome that particular factor much better than we do.
Why? How?
1) Many more single parents live with other adults in the household in Europe than here. Cultural difference that favors the "village", whether extended family or multi-family, over autonomy. (I have some bias on this as we built a house that accommodated my parents plus my wife's brother, and my sister and her husband and 3 kids right next door...lots of adult attention and that was a big part of the point.)
2) Most of Europe has much more generous maternity and paternity and general leave policies, child care, etc versus US.
3) Much higher emphasis on public school education, higher respect and pay for teachers,...and ugh, not much time allotted for sports...
But of course it's harder for a single parent to raise a child, much less multiple children. Particularly in poverty. Europe makes it easier, not harder to do so, though it's obviously still a significant issue...but as you indicate, less achievement gap in those households than here.
4) But is it really people choosing to have children without a spouse or other adult to help, or does our astronomical incarceration rate have something to with why so many poor households have no fathers at home?
Makes you wonder...maybe we could do this differently?
Obama wasn't wrong, and it deserves discussion, though emphasis on race misses the point, which is how it gets twisted. But grifters like Sowell and Woodson are playing the grift.
I never said it was the primary factor. I said it should not be minimized or ignored for political expediency.
Multi-generational family homes are not just more common in the EU. They're closer to the norm in Asia.
And yet no one on here suggested that we should "minimize" or "ignore" it for "political expediency".
It's simply NOT the driver of why these countries on average outperform us in education (excluding our most selective colleges which remain the envy of the world).
And focusing on that factor, saying we need a "culture change", citing black intellectuals (grifters) who focus on race and fatherhood...all smacks of the "welfare queen" excuse to not actually solve the issues...and why? To maintain the current structural status quo. The black intellectuals feeding the status quo, and being fed by it...sneering at Hillary's "it takes a village"...
Nah, blame the deadbeat dads (often in jail), or absent dads (often dead), or abusive dads (divorced or kicked out before marriage), blame the moms who want children regardless of whether there's a dependable man available...
No solutions...no action. Status quo.
The Europeans do
this (not everything!) better than we do...we need to recognize that and learn from it, make it our own.