Michigan at Cornell

[laxfan1313]

What if I told you that the Doc is an Ivy-Leaguer, not your typical lunch-pail Blue Jay?

My info is that he was an All American lax player at JHU. My source? The late Richie Moran.

[DocBarrister]

What if I told you that the Doc is an Ivy-Leaguer, not your typical lunch-pail Blue Jay?

My info is that he was an All American lax player at JHU. My source? The late Richie Moran.

I had a distinguished intramural lacrosse career at Hopkins. As a goalie, I had a career 100% save percentage (1 save on 1 SOG … I was knocked out of goal because a shot hit me in my abdomen … unprotected because my teammates were too cheap to buy a chest protector). On attack, I scored one goal on the crease when none of the players on the opposing team wanted to play defense. As a middie, I delivered a wicked cross-check (which we never called because we all lacked the skill and athleticism to land a legal check) and caused a turnover (two decades before CTs became an official stat … I was a pioneer).

I never won a Division I National Championship in my college career, but neither did any contemporary player at Cornell.

In summary, I am highly qualified to opine on this game.

DocBarrister

[Lager]

Massey:

cu_v_um.jpg

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

Hard to operate on defense when you get 3 early face off violations (the ref was a joke). After that, you can't really risk anticipating the whistle, and Yale wins all the face offs, and the defense can't get a minute to rest. You'd be a fool to judge Cornells defense from that ILT game.

Not here to bust on Cornell or its faithful fans; really it's a serious question relating to RPI and the computer models used by the cognescenti here. If the computer model cannot consider recent trends and natural improvements of teams since February, it's value is significantly diminished in predicting an outcome.

RPI is fine in such a short 12 to 16 game season, but almost every team is different than they were in February and early March. Michigan and Cornell, at least the last 10 days, appear to be headed in different directions.

So much of lacrosse is about matchups, as well. Why is UVA invincible against everyone but Duke? Why is Notre Dame untouchable against every team but UVA? On paper UMich should dominate at the X but sometimes the matchup goes another direction. And does UMichigan have anybody who can shut down Kirst? If he goes on an early tear and Michigan gets behind, it could change the complexion of the game. Cornell had a very rough day against Yale (and the faceoff violation thing was a real factor) but they beat a good Princeton team the week before and a good Army team in mid-April.

This is so true. Look at last year. Penn and Brown were simply bad match-ups for Cornell. But Cornell was able to beat multiple teams that beat those teams. Most notably, Cornell absolutely dominated a Rutgers team in the final 4 that had beaten Penn the week before in the quarters.

[Laxbuck]

Right now Michigan is a tough matchup for anyone. Would Cornell rather play Michigan or Maryland?

[CU77]

You can put in any pair of teams you like, and choose which is the home team or neutral field (the "vs" option), here:

https://masseyratings.com/game.php?s=clax2023&sub=11590

[CU77]

Right now Michigan is a tough matchup for anyone. Would Cornell rather play Michigan or Maryland?

Michigan, no question for me. Maryland is a much more experienced team with excellent coaching -- HC is a Cornell alum -- and overall a significantly higher talent level. They've had a lot of injuries this year, and Quint had a point about their complex schemes needing a week of prep, so the 2-day B1G turnaround did not show them at their best.

Michigan has been playing very well, but now they have a bit of a goalie conundrum, and emotionally they may have a let down after winning the B1G, which is indeed a big (no pun intended!) deal.

Maryland, on the other hand, is licking their wounds and will be out for vengeance: no way no how do they lose in the first round, not to Army, not to Cornell, not to anyone they could plausibly have drawn.

[faircornell]

Massey:

cu_v_um.jpg

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

I've followed Massey for several seasons now. I'd argue that it has a weakness in not picking up what teams are "hot" or on a winning streak. The weakness of "hot" teams is that they are never reliably "hot" in all circumstances. Also, Massey weights their picks in terms of confidence (I hope that I am using the correct terminology), so the reader is not given an "absolute" result. All of that said, it is often surprisingly correct.

[Ezra White]

...
I never won a Division I National Championship in my college career, but neither did any contemporary player at Cornell.
...

Are you implying your college career was over before 1971?

[DocBarrister]

...
I never won a Division I National Championship in my college career, but neither did any contemporary player at Cornell.
...

Are you implying your college career was over before 1971?

No, I played intramural lacrosse at Hopkins, utilizing a broad and forgiving definition of “played” and “lacrosse.”

I was simply noting that I, of course, never won a Division I championship in college, while noting that actual contemporaneous Division I players at Cornell had not either.

Look, if that wimp George Will can comment on baseball, I can comment on lacrosse.

DocBarrister

[ICGrad]

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

Michigan had a great weekend. Before that they spent a week beating up Ohio State a couple of times.

Michigan went into the Big10 tourney needing to win to extend their season, and they did. Not diminishing their accomplishment at all; they looked great against Penn State, and I assume against Maryland (didn't see the game). They were also playing for significantly different stakes than the other teams in the tourney, which may or may not have played into the results.

Before that they had solid - not spectacular - back-to-back wins against a team that lost 9 of its last 11 games, and that more often than not looked like it was circling the drain the last half of the season.

I think Sunday's matchup with Cornell will be a great game, and Michigan is certainly playing well right now, but I also think some are suggesting Cornell is nosediving based on the results of a single game. Cornell is much better than the Yale result might indicate; their resume proves that out.

[Chousnake]

Massey:

cu_v_um.jpg

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

Yeah. I'm not sure why Cornell would even show up......./s

[CU88a]

Massey:

cu_v_um.jpg

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

Yeah. I'm not sure why Cornell would even show up......./s

LOL.

I agree, with this current social media Michigan "logic", they should just give Georgetown, winners of 12 straight, the plaque now and cancel the NCAA.

Crazy that homers think their team winning two big games in a row are now unbeatable.

It was Do or Die for them and they stepped up, congrats.

We play the game for a reason. And this match up is one of the best for the weekend.

[Ezra White]

Boehm is Michigan's highest scoring player. He's played in everyone of Michigan's games this year. In M's six losses this year he went:

• UVA (1,0)
• Marq (1,3)
• ND (1,1)
• JHU (0,2)
• Rut (4,1)
• PSU (0,0)

Michigan lost every game in which he scored 2 or fewer points.

Curious: Who are the best close D's he's faced?

[Farfromgeneva]

What if I told you that the Doc is an Ivy-Leaguer, not your typical lunch-pail Blue Jay?

What’s a lunch pail Blue Jay? Fine China and silverware w silk napkins?

[Farfromgeneva]

Massey:

cu_v_um.jpg

Does this consider timing of their season results? I mean Michigan has looked tremendous the past 10 days and Cornell looks like a bunch of beer league 30 year olds playing defense.

Hard to operate on defense when you get 3 early face off violations (the ref was a joke). After that, you can't really risk anticipating the whistle, and Yale wins all the face offs, and the defense can't get a minute to rest. You'd be a fool to judge Cornells defense from that ILT game.

Not here to bust on Cornell or its faithful fans; really it's a serious question relating to RPI and the computer models used by the cognescenti here. If the computer model cannot consider recent trends and natural improvements of teams since February, it's value is significantly diminished in predicting an outcome.

RPI is fine in such a short 12 to 16 game season, but almost every team is different than they were in February and early March. Michigan and Cornell, at least the last 10 days, appear to be headed in different directions.

So much of lacrosse is about matchups, as well. Why is UVA invincible against everyone but Duke? Why is Notre Dame untouchable against every team but UVA? On paper UMich should dominate at the X but sometimes the matchup goes another direction. And does UMichigan have anybody who can shut down Kirst? If he goes on an early tear and Michigan gets behind, it could change the complexion of the game. Cornell had a very rough day against Yale (and the faceoff violation thing was a real factor) but they beat a good Princeton team the week before and a good Army team in mid-April.

This is so true. Look at last year. Penn and Brown were simply bad match-ups for Cornell. But Cornell was able to beat multiple teams that beat those teams. Most notably, Cornell absolutely dominated a Rutgers team in the final 4 that had beaten Penn the week before in the quarters.

And yet looked suspect getting trucked by Army last reg season game before the tourney…they managed fine in the playoffs.

[Farfromgeneva]

...
I never won a Division I National Championship in my college career, but neither did any contemporary player at Cornell.
...

Are you implying your college career was over before 1971?

No, I played intramural lacrosse at Hopkins, utilizing a broad and forgiving definition of “played” and “lacrosse.”

I was simply noting that I, of course, never won a Division I championship in college, while noting that actual contemporaneous Division I players at Cornell had not either.

Look, if that wimp George Will can comment on baseball, I can comment on lacrosse.

DocBarrister

I got Will in Rd 3. -300

[ICGrad]

And yet looked suspect getting trucked by Army last reg season game before the tourney…they managed fine in the playoffs.

Cornell beat Princeton in the last regular season game last year.

The lost to Army, lost to Brown, beat Princeton, then lost to Yale in the ILT semis, so entered the tourney losing 3 of 4.

[45wewantmore]

Apparently your last game doesn't count when you reach the play-offs

Yale ran thru and over Cornell in ILT semi final

31 shots by HT
Cornell only 3 saves by HT

That game should have been dead and buried instead of 12-8 HT

[ICGrad]

Apparently your last game doesn't count when you reach the play-offs

Yale ran thru and over Cornell in ILT semi final

31 shots by HT
Cornell only 3 saves by HT

That game should have been dead and buried instead of 12-8 HT

Cornell had one genuinely bad defensive performance out of 14 games. Are you suggesting that become the exclusive lens through which we evaluate them going forward?

[FannOLax]

Apparently your last game doesn't count when you reach the play-offs

Yale ran thru and over Cornell in ILT semi final

31 shots by HT
Cornell only 3 saves by HT

That game should have been dead and buried instead of 12-8 HT

Cornell had one genuinely bad defensive performance out of 14 games. Are you suggesting that become the exclusive lens through which we evaluate them going forward?

Both Cornell and Yale had a flat game in their last ILT outing; therefore, both are toast in their first-round NCAA games. Obviously!