Boston College

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Great scorer..but that's about it. Love CN but she's a one trick pony. She can't pass. at all. If you shut her down from scoring, her impact on a game a pretty much non-existent.

That's an exaggerated misconception. She's got 54 career assists. She can pass when needed, like here to Jenn Medjid (Begin watching at 1:02) in the semi vs Carolina while covered by two defenders. But like Doc said earlier, when she gives you 6-8 goals a game, it's hard to criticize her too harshly in other areas.

Oh--and how many players (beginning of video) can scoop a ground ball going full speed covered by two defenders and score like that? She's a one in a million player.

Emily H did it at ACCs a few years ago it’s a pretty famous clip

Do you remember against who? I’d love to see that one as well.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Emily H did it at ACCs a few years ago it’s a pretty famous clip

Is this the one you mean?

[DMac]

Why is Charlotte North so good? Ive been watching her for awhile. Besides being incredibly crafty and creative, nothing she is doing seems new or game-breaking but everything she does seems to work. I never played but have been a casual fan for years and i recognize that she's really good but cant understand WHY she is really good? like what is she doing differently than everyone before her that makes a move that much better when she does it compared to her predecessors?

She is fierce. She is extremely talented and confident in those abilities. Her FP shot is unstoppable. Just like a great white, she goes for what she wants and eats it. Now her game has some flaws - ride /redefend isn't great and she isn't a feeder, but when she can give you 6-8 goals a game....

She’s a real innovator. Here’s a perfect example in this clip. She tried on this new shot for size in one game, and perfected it in the very next game. Astounding talent and fire. She’s a true artist.

Great scorer..but that's about it. Love CN but she's a one trick pony. She can't pass. at all. If you shut her down from scoring, her impact on a game a pretty much non-existent.

Man, sometimes the criticisms (not restricted to CN) here are just ridiculous.
"that's about it" She take draws?
"She can't pass." This is nonsense.
I'd have to deduct you don't like the girl but don't let that make you come on here and just
make stuff up.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Great scorer..but that's about it. Love CN but she's a one trick pony. She can't pass. at all. If you shut her down from scoring, her impact on a game a pretty much non-existent.

Man, sometimes the criticisms (not restricted to CN) here are just ridiculous.
"that's about it" She take draws?
"She can't pass." This is nonsense.
I'd have to deduct you don't like the girl but don't let that make you come on here and just
make stuff up.

Well said.

[LarryGamLax]

The problem with you ONW is that you are still fairly new to the sport and haven't seen a lot. I have seen some of the greatest to play on this side of the game, thus I come at these present observations from an entirely different perspective.
I like CN and respect her ability, but I've seen way too many great players to say she's the best ever. I love Jen Adams and I don't think she's the best ever, so I'm not going to anoint CN before Jen Adams.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The problem with you ONW is that you are still fairly new to the sport and haven't seen a lot. I have seen some of the greatest to play on this side of the game, thus I come at these present observations from an entirely different perspective.
I like CN and respect her ability, but I've seen way too many great players to say she's the best ever. I love Jen Adams and I don't think she's the best ever, so I'm not going to anoint CN before Jen Adams.

The problem with you Larry is that you are often presumptuous in your dealings with others.

When did I ever say Charlotte North was the best ever?

To end on a positive note – I enjoy reading what you write and I’m glad you are more active on the boards these days.

[LarryGamLax]

I’ll say it. Rachel Hall isn’t very good. Definitely not bad, but can think of many other goalies I’d rather have

REALLY? She's way too inconsistent and her fundamentals and mechanics are poor.

Maybe so--but when the money was on the table last championship weekend, she was Dope with a capital D. Hall made 11 saves vs the #1 seed and pre-crowned NCAA champion Carolina Tar Heels; many of the spectacular variety which she had to move for. And another 9 saves against a tough and talented Syracuse team in the final. Here's another player folks like to pick apart to their own discredit. I'll take a money goaltender over a more fundamentally sound goaltender any day of the week if she helps you lift the golden grail in the last game of the season. Hall undeniably did that last year.

Dude, stop yourself now. Money Goaltender?? You had no clue that she was going to play like that...and neither did she! She's not mediocre during the regular season, she's below mediocre. Is there another standard of good that women athletes are judged by? If there is, I'll stick to what I've used forever. It works just fine.

[LarryGamLax]

ONW... your clip and the info given is misleading. Yes, she did the same move and shot in 2 different games. The first part of the clip was vs UNC and Taylor Moreno. CN makes the move, takes a poorly placed shot and Moreno handles it easily. In the next part of the clip, CN makes the same move vs Syracuse and Asa Goldstock. CN's shot was better placed (weakside High), but Goldstock's positioning was poor and she never attempted to STEP to the ball with her left foot with her stick leading. That's fundamental goaltending and proper mechanics. Neither was part of Asa's Resume.

BTW... you state that CN is an innovator. What move(s) or shots did she invent?

Couldn't it be said that North surprised Goldstock because of her stop short shot as well? Maybe she didn't have time to do what is fundamental because she was so caught off guard. This shot right here I would call innovative. I haven't been watching lacrosse for even a smidge of a fraction of the time you have. But being a regular watcher since 2014, I've never seen anyone stop short like Charlotte does here. That's not to say other players don't have this shot in their arsenal, I've just never seen anyone else do it.

To answer the first part of your question...NO!
And go look up innovator, CN's photo will not be there.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I’ll say it. Rachel Hall isn’t very good. Definitely not bad, but can think of many other goalies I’d rather have

REALLY? She's way too inconsistent and her fundamentals and mechanics are poor.

Maybe so--but when the money was on the table last championship weekend, she was Dope with a capital D. Hall made 11 saves vs the #1 seed and pre-crowned NCAA champion Carolina Tar Heels; many of the spectacular variety which she had to move for. And another 9 saves against a tough and talented Syracuse team in the final. Here's another player folks like to pick apart to their own discredit. I'll take a money goaltender over a more fundamentally sound goaltender any day of the week if she helps you lift the golden grail in the last game of the season. Hall undeniably did that last year.

Dude, stop yourself now. Money Goaltender?? You had no clue that she was going to play like that...and neither did she! She's not mediocre during the regular season, she's below mediocre. Is there another standard of good that women athletes are judged by? If there is, I'll stick to what I've used forever. It works just fine.

Based on how she played in the last two games of 2021? Absolutely, unequivocally yes—Money Goaltender.

As I wrote previously, I’m not concerned with her level of mediocrity during the regular season if she can play like that on championship weekend.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

go look up innovator, CN's photo will not be there.

lol—nice one. I like that.

[wlaxphan20]

Why is Charlotte North so good? Ive been watching her for awhile. Besides being incredibly crafty and creative, nothing she is doing seems new or game-breaking but everything she does seems to work. I never played but have been a casual fan for years and i recognize that she's really good but cant understand WHY she is really good? like what is she doing differently than everyone before her that makes a move that much better when she does it compared to her predecessors?

She is fierce. She is extremely talented and confident in those abilities. Her FP shot is unstoppable. Just like a great white, she goes for what she wants and eats it. Now her game has some flaws - ride /redefend isn't great and she isn't a feeder, but when she can give you 6-8 goals a game....

She’s a real innovator. Here’s a perfect example in this clip. She tried on this new shot for size in one game, and perfected it in the very next game. Astounding talent and fire. She’s a true artist.

I think North is talented and fiercely competitive, but I think this take is a little exaggerated or maybe not the best example. IMO, making a shot adjustment is not elite or innovative, but expected. Additionally, high bounce shots are not a novel concept. They were around even before the time these links were posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VTszQ7zeuI

https://youtu.be/s3aWoYbI82U?t=46

https://youtu.be/u87ZmRFAs8I?t=144

[Bart]

I’ll say it. Rachel Hall isn’t very good. Definitely not bad, but can think of many other goalies I’d rather have

REALLY? She's way too inconsistent and her fundamentals and mechanics are poor.

Maybe so--but when the money was on the table last championship weekend, she was Dope with a capital D. Hall made 11 saves vs the #1 seed and pre-crowned NCAA champion Carolina Tar Heels; many of the spectacular variety which she had to move for. And another 9 saves against a tough and talented Syracuse team in the final. Here's another player folks like to pick apart to their own discredit. I'll take a money goaltender over a more fundamentally sound goaltender any day of the week if she helps you lift the golden grail in the last game of the season. Hall undeniably did that last year.

Dude, stop yourself now. Money Goaltender?? You had no clue that she was going to play like that...and neither did she! She's not mediocre during the regular season, she's below mediocre. Is there another standard of good that women athletes are judged by? If there is, I'll stick to what I've used forever. It works just fine.

Based on how she played in the last two games of 2021? Absolutely, unequivocally yes—Money Goaltender.

As I wrote previously, I’m not concerned with her level of mediocrity during the regular season if she can play like that on championship weekend.

The problem with "money goaltender" (and I am not restricting it to Ms Hall) is that you have no clue if that money will be in the bank when needed. Give me a consistent goaltender that may not be spectacular on a few occasions all the time. At least I would know what/who was going to show up every week and I could plan accordingly.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Why is Charlotte North so good? Ive been watching her for awhile. Besides being incredibly crafty and creative, nothing she is doing seems new or game-breaking but everything she does seems to work. I never played but have been a casual fan for years and i recognize that she's really good but cant understand WHY she is really good? like what is she doing differently than everyone before her that makes a move that much better when she does it compared to her predecessors?

She is fierce. She is extremely talented and confident in those abilities. Her FP shot is unstoppable. Just like a great white, she goes for what she wants and eats it. Now her game has some flaws - ride /redefend isn't great and she isn't a feeder, but when she can give you 6-8 goals a game....

She’s a real innovator. Here’s a perfect example in this clip. She tried on this new shot for size in one game, and perfected it in the very next game. Astounding talent and fire. She’s a true artist.

I think North is talented and fiercely competitive, but I think this take is a little exaggerated or maybe not the best example. IMO, making a shot adjustment is not elite or innovative, but expected. Additionally, high bounce shots are not a novel concept. They were around even before the time these links were posted:

Just to be clear, wlaxphan – I was impressed with the stop short – gain an advantage on the defender – shoot and score in this clip. I didn’t mention a bounce shot. As I said, I haven’t been watching women’s lacrosse as long as most of the people on this forum have. So, with my limited exposure, I had never seen anybody do this. That’s what I based my innovator comment on.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

The problem with "money goaltender" (and I am not restricting it to Ms Hall) is that you have no clue if that money will be in the bank when needed. Give me a consistent goaltender that may not be spectacular on a few occasions all the time. At least I would know what/who was going to show up every week and I could plan accordingly.

I can dig it.

In addition, I don’t think Hall was as bad during the regular season as some folks make her out to be. And I couldn’t care less about her numbers, or mechanics for that matter. Put it this way – she certainly didn’t prevent Boston College from getting to the national championship last year. She did enough in the regular season to help them on their way.

[LarryGamLax]

The problem with "money goaltender" (and I am not restricting it to Ms Hall) is that you have no clue if that money will be in the bank when needed. Give me a consistent goaltender that may not be spectacular on a few occasions all the time. At least I would know what/who was going to show up every week and I could plan accordingly.

I can dig it.

In addition, I don’t think Hall was as bad during the regular season as some folks make her out to be. And I couldn’t care less about her numbers, or mechanics for that matter. Put it this way – she certainly didn’t prevent Boston College from getting to the national championship last year. She did enough in the regular season to help them on their way.

You love everything that is BC Lacrosse and that's fine, but your enthusiasm is not shared by others...including me. I respect players and I respect talent, but I will not lie about what I see. HALL is nothing special in the Goalie position. She had 2 good games last May and they were the two most important games. The result was a NC for BC. Congrats and Hooray! She's the Nick Foles of Lacrosse. She will be a legend at BC, but I will not be using her as an example of a good goalie with any future clients.

[bhall123]

Larry,

This is Rachel Hall's dad. I think it is sad that an old man hides behind a pseudonym to consistently denigrate a 21 year old girl who has fought to achieve everything she has accomplished against all odds. I am glad that people like you did not have the opportunity to influence her along the way, but instead she received the encouragement and praise of the likes of Kayla Treanor, Katrina Dowd, AWW, KAH and other great coaches who saw something in her. She is not mediocre, and if you were to meet her you would find her engaging, intelligent and with perhaps as much if not more knowledge about today's modern game of women's lacrosse than you.

I appreciate everyone who sticks up for her in this forum, but I fear you are only just feeding the troll and Rachel doesn't need help that makes her the brunt of misplayed and uninformed spoutings of an armchair goalie whose knowledge of the game appears grounded in the last century.

I really hope this is the last of this and you can move on to insulting someone else's daughter and not use mine as your example of today's mediocracy in women's lacrosse.

[wlaxphan20]

Why is Charlotte North so good? Ive been watching her for awhile. Besides being incredibly crafty and creative, nothing she is doing seems new or game-breaking but everything she does seems to work. I never played but have been a casual fan for years and i recognize that she's really good but cant understand WHY she is really good? like what is she doing differently than everyone before her that makes a move that much better when she does it compared to her predecessors?

She is fierce. She is extremely talented and confident in those abilities. Her FP shot is unstoppable. Just like a great white, she goes for what she wants and eats it. Now her game has some flaws - ride /redefend isn't great and she isn't a feeder, but when she can give you 6-8 goals a game....

She’s a real innovator. Here’s a perfect example in this clip. She tried on this new shot for size in one game, and perfected it in the very next game. Astounding talent and fire. She’s a true artist.

I think North is talented and fiercely competitive, but I think this take is a little exaggerated or maybe not the best example. IMO, making a shot adjustment is not elite or innovative, but expected. Additionally, high bounce shots are not a novel concept. They were around even before the time these links were posted:

Just to be clear, wlaxphan – I was impressed with the stop short – gain an advantage on the defender – shoot and score in this clip. I didn’t mention a bounce shot. As I said, I haven’t been watching women’s lacrosse as long as most of the people on this forum have. So, with my limited exposure, I had never seen anybody do this. That’s what I based my innovator comment on.

You mentioned her "shot". So, just to be clear, you meant the move she made to free up her hands to take the shot. You also mentioned her perfecting it the next time around. The adjustment she made was to the placement of her actual shot from high, right to the goalie's stick, to a bounce. I'm aware that you are a newer fan to the sport so I can see why you would describe it as innovative, and also why I provided examples. All I'm saying is that I don't think this is the best example to describe her as innovative, because that dodge (coming from x and abruptly stopping) is fairly common as well. Does Charlotte's speed, power, athleticism, and dedication to practice allow her to perform that dodge more effectively than most of her peers? Absolutely. I don't even think Charlotte needs to be an innovator to influence the game or be considered talented or elite. Steph Curry didn't invent the 3 pointer but his ability to shoot the lights out of the ball has certainly influenced how basketball is played.

[Dr. Tact]

Larry,

This is Rachel Hall's dad. I think it is sad that an old man hides behind a pseudonym to consistently denigrate a 21 year old girl who has fought to achieve everything she has accomplished against all odds. I am glad that people like you did not have the opportunity to influence her along the way, but instead she received the encouragement and praise of the likes of Kayla Treanor, Katrina Dowd, AWW, KAH and other great coaches who saw something in her. She is not mediocre, and if you were to meet her you would find her engaging, intelligent and with perhaps as much if not more knowledge about today's modern game of women's lacrosse than you.

I appreciate everyone who sticks up for her in this forum, but I fear you are only just feeding the troll and Rachel doesn't need help that makes her the brunt of misplayed and uninformed spoutings of an armchair goalie whose knowledge of the game appears grounded in the last century.

I really hope this is the last of this and you can move on to insulting someone else's daughter and not use mine as your example of today's mediocracy in women's lacrosse.

Good on ya Dad!!! While my D is not the star on her team, to the extent that she draws message board criticism, I appreciate your measured response. I would be apoplectic. We tend to forget what is behind, in this case, the helmet. I know there is a sentiment on this board that all should be open for criticism. I personally don't negatively criticize players. I limit my vitriol to coaches .

My daughter is so much a better lacrosse player, athlete, scholar and overall person than I am. So I am protective of my little Cindy Lou, as you are. I have not focused on BC's players (other than CN and JM), so I cant defend your D or any other player without generalized comments.

Anyway, I support your post and hope that all is well in the Hall family.

[Dr. Tact]

Does Charlotte's speed, power, athleticism, and dedication to practice allow her to perform that dodge more effectively than most of her peers? Absolutely. I don't even think Charlotte needs to be an innovator to influence the game or be considered talented or elite. Steph Curry didn't invent the 3 pointer but his ability to shoot the lights out of the ball has certainly influenced how basketball is played.

Well said.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

In Beantown, we call that a scorchah.

(Is the fire extinguisher handy?)