All things CoronaVirus

[RedFromMI]

What's the fatality rate of COVID once you're on a respirator?

It depends on time and locality as treatment plans morph as more is known, but for NYC the numbers are in the 80-90% range. (Deaths if on vent).

Some other places not quite so high.

[jhu72]

How an unproven COVID-19 treatment ended up being endorsed by Trump

[RedFromMI]

How an unproven COVID-19 treatment ended up being endorsed by Trump

Basically a combination of grifting and searching for any hope even if false. When you have people added to a publication without their knowledge or permission you definitely have problems.

And the president is too dumb to know the difference, and cannot accept that he cannot wish this pandemic away.

[Peter Brown]

Oh gee, just the non-data driven Japanese endorsing Remdesevir.



To the moon, Alice!!!!

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020 ... n-may.html

hmmm, not actually.
This appears to be Abe flailing around. He's apparently doing so on another drug as well.

Apparently (from this article) they're postponing their own studies and have said they'll fast track approval if some other country goes first.

We all want this or another therapy to work well, and to be safe.
Causing kidney failure in 25% of patients is hardly 'safe'.

omg, you guys are relentless in your cheerleading anything that doesn't make the lib narrative.

deterioration of kidney function is not "kidney failure", no more so than Tylenol.

lol. Transparent much?!?!?

[ggait]

Oh gee, just the non-data driven Japanese endorsing Remdesevir.



To the moon, Alice!!!!

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020 ... n-may.html

Apparently Petey refuses to wear his reading glasses. So the only thing he can ever see or post about is the headline. Has to be, since he's so unaware of all those important pesky details printed in smaller type.

If Petey can actually see, however, then I we'd have to conclude instead that he is a bad faith troller? Since I always try to see the best in people, I'm sticking with the glasses explanation for Petey -- bless his heart.

In an eerie coincidence, Trump does exactly the same thing. Many (but not all) of his odd and/or bumbling statements are due to the fact that he can't read the script. He's too vain to wear his reading glasses. So they have to blow the teleprompter up to a huge font. Like ten words per screen.

Here's what Petey couldn't read:

Once an application by Gilead Sciences is made, the Japanese government is set to fast-track its approval. This streamlining of the process -- which involves postponing reports on domestic clinical tests to a later date -- is available on condition that the drug has been approved in another country.

[MDlaxfan76]

What's the fatality rate of COVID once you're on a respirator?

In the US, something like 80%.

Kram,
I don't want to assume what your point is, but sounds like you're good with the 25% kidney failure in comparison to 80% death rate once on respirator?

That would indeed be a reasonable tradeoff if the Remdesivir was at the moment when ventilator would otherwise be necessary, improving mortality.

But only a small % of CV-19 patients actually get to the ventilator stage. Some die suddenly from heart issues, which adds to the death count, but these may or may not have been symptomatic at all...apparently a bunch of those don't even come to the hospital. But most never get to a ventilator.

Most patients eventually recover, though we think there's considerable damage to at least some portion of those who recover, so death is not the only negative outcome.

Point is that if the 25% kidney failure (or "deterioration") outcome is of those who would not have otherwise moved onto a ventilator, then that's an awful #.

But we don't really have enough data, at least not yet, to say that Remdesivir is or is not a good therapy for at least some patients at a particular point in the course of the disease and at particular dosages and in combination with other therapies.

We hope it will be both efficacious and safe.

and/or that other therapies will be even better.

and soon!

[ggait]

Has Sweden got it right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52395866

Still very much TBD.

At halftime, the scoreboard says they are losing pretty badly. 225 deaths per million pop as compared to 74 Denmark, 38 Norway, 35 Finland, 29 Iceland. Most ominously, the UW projection is for them to get up to 1,000. Which would make Sweden worse than even Italy or France. But...

Sweden so far has avoided overwhelming their health care system. They've also been able to keep their lives and economy a bit more normal than other countries (although they are still significantly SD-ing and still paying a huge economic cost). And the Swedes seem mostly to be OK with their path.

Sweden could still win big if they get to herd immunity sooner than other countries do. In the longer run, that would save lots of lives and livelihoods. Just have to wait and see if that plays out. Seems like a stretch at present, but no one really knows.

[jhu72]

What's the fatality rate of COVID once you're on a respirator?

It depends on time and locality as treatment plans morph as more is known, but for NYC the numbers are in the 80-90% range. (Deaths if on vent).

Some other places not quite so high.

I'd like to know what the numbers are of those in ICU put on ventilators prior to three weeks ago, and that number now. I suspect it has decreased.

[CU88]

On March 6, Donald Trump visited the CDC and told Americans, “Anybody who needs a [coronavirus] test, will get a test.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/us/p ... aging.html

52 days and counting...

[old salt]

Assuming this kills this particular virus? Sounds like a fantastic way to make being indoors statistically safer.

This was brought up a 4-5 weeks ago. UV lightning in places where people congregate. Not sure how to get a powerful light inside the body though.

What I meant was, killing the virus in the air recirculation system of buildings....in the ductwork.

If you already have the virus, UV isn't going to help. Someone needs to point that out to Trump, obviously.

Yes. I saw that. That’s a good idea as well. Really a need on something like an airplane. I was just pointing out that using UV rays in the environment has been postulated. Trump’s use of it was mangled as usual. Just how he is. Nothing new. Anyone that has had to deal with him off camera knows he is not the smartest guy. His mental capacity is sliding in front of the nation’s eyes. I have heard from people that said I told them but they didn’t really believe it because “he is Donald Trump”. I will give him credit for his ability to brand himself and gain publicity.

Says the Joe Biden supporter!

I will vote for a tree stump.

Biden's your guy.

[old salt]

I’m a right wing delusional? Damn I get accused By Cradle, OS and Peter Brown-eye of being something liberal pole smoker and now you’re weak sauce is coming my way?

You’re a Fng clown. You just complain like a little baby. You give reasonable discourse as bad of a name as bandito. Same dump just other side.

How about you man up and stand on your own two feet instead of being a whiny gimp who has to say “he did it first” like a dumbass pre school girl? That’s some gilded soft stuff.

Talk talk talk. I doubt you are anything but a fragilista who claims others as your own.

Excuse me ? Plz show a post where I accused you of anything ?

[CU88]

Assuming this kills this particular virus? Sounds like a fantastic way to make being indoors statistically safer.

This was brought up a 4-5 weeks ago. UV lightning in places where people congregate. Not sure how to get a powerful light inside the body though.

What I meant was, killing the virus in the air recirculation system of buildings....in the ductwork.

If you already have the virus, UV isn't going to help. Someone needs to point that out to Trump, obviously.

Yes. I saw that. That’s a good idea as well. Really a need on something like an airplane. I was just pointing out that using UV rays in the environment has been postulated. Trump’s use of it was mangled as usual. Just how he is. Nothing new. Anyone that has had to deal with him off camera knows he is not the smartest guy. His mental capacity is sliding in front of the nation’s eyes. I have heard from people that said I told them but they didn’t really believe it because “he is Donald Trump”. I will give him credit for his ability to brand himself and gain publicity.

Says the Joe Biden supporter!

I will vote for a tree stump.

Biden's your guy.

Oh what the set up, I needed the laugh.

[Peter Brown]

Has Sweden got it right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52395866

Still very much TBD.

At halftime, the scoreboard says they are losing pretty badly. 225 deaths per million pop as compared to 74 Denmark, 38 Norway, 35 Finland, 29 Iceland. Most ominously, the UW projection is for them to get up to 1,000. Which would make Sweden worse than even Italy or France. But...

Sweden so far has avoided overwhelming their health care system. They've also been able to keep their lives and economy a bit more normal than other countries (although they are still significantly SD-ing and still paying a huge economic cost). And the Swedes seem mostly to be OK with their path.

Sweden could still win big if they get to herd immunity sooner than other countries do. In the longer run, that would save lots of lives and livelihoods. Just have to wait and see if that plays out. Seems like a stretch at present, but no one really knows.

It *almost* sounds like you don’t want it be successful.

Hmmmmmm

[Peter Brown]

Oh gee, just the non-data driven Japanese endorsing Remdesevir.



To the moon, Alice!!!!

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020 ... n-may.html

....such as deterioration of kidney function, in a quarter of them.

Soooooo......ruined kidneys 25% of the time?

Do you EVER bother reading things you cite?

Pete's having a rough day here.

Are you in airfreight, or something? What exactly does your business do?

Man I rarely have a rough day if your rough is the same as my rough. My definition of “rough” is spending your youth in a pediatric cancer ward. My days are comparatively perfect compared to that reality. All I do in quarantine is swat online libs and hypocrisy. Not rough, pure pleasure!

[Typical Lax Dad]

Assuming this kills this particular virus? Sounds like a fantastic way to make being indoors statistically safer.

This was brought up a 4-5 weeks ago. UV lightning in places where people congregate. Not sure how to get a powerful light inside the body though.

What I meant was, killing the virus in the air recirculation system of buildings....in the ductwork.

If you already have the virus, UV isn't going to help. Someone needs to point that out to Trump, obviously.

Yes. I saw that. That’s a good idea as well. Really a need on something like an airplane. I was just pointing out that using UV rays in the environment has been postulated. Trump’s use of it was mangled as usual. Just how he is. Nothing new. Anyone that has had to deal with him off camera knows he is not the smartest guy. His mental capacity is sliding in front of the nation’s eyes. I have heard from people that said I told them but they didn’t really believe it because “he is Donald Trump”. I will give him credit for his ability to brand himself and gain publicity.

Says the Joe Biden supporter!

I will vote for a tree stump.

Biden's your guy.

Hopefully he can fog a mirror. If not, I will vote for him anyway. I am not a liar or a hypocrite.

[wgdsr]

What's the fatality rate of COVID once you're on a respirator?

In the US, something like 80%.

Kram,
I don't want to assume what your point is, but sounds like you're good with the 25% kidney failure in comparison to 80% death rate once on respirator?

That would indeed be a reasonable tradeoff if the Remdesivir was at the moment when ventilator would otherwise be necessary, improving mortality.

But only a small % of CV-19 patients actually get to the ventilator stage. Some die suddenly from heart issues, which adds to the death count, but these may or may not have been symptomatic at all...apparently a bunch of those don't even come to the hospital. But most never get to a ventilator.

Most patients eventually recover, though we think there's considerable damage to at least some portion of those who recover, so death is not the only negative outcome.

Point is that if the 25% kidney failure (or "deterioration") outcome is of those who would not have otherwise moved onto a ventilator, then that's an awful #.

But we don't really have enough data, at least not yet, to say that Remdesivir is or is not a good therapy for at least some patients at a particular point in the course of the disease and at particular dosages and in combination with other therapies.

We hope it will be both efficacious and safe.

and/or that other therapies will be even better.

and soon!

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NE ... Tools=true
https://www.gilead.com/news-and-press/p ... -of-medici

above is the actual nejm article, and the gilead press release. they were not too hard to find, btw. if you read through them both, you will find the quote in bold:
"The New England Journal of Medicine recently published a study showing the drug's effectiveness in nearly 70 percent of 53 coronavirus patients with severe symptoms, while it caused serious side-effects, such as deterioration of kidney function, in a quarter of them."
...to be complete nonsense. nowhere does it say that the drug caused serious side effects. it's garbage writing. for clicks? an agenda? stupidity? don't know.

as has been noted just above, do your homework if you want to be informed and nowadays is probably not a great time to be believing media, politicians, facebook, etc. (not directed at anyone in particular).

there is this:
The overall mortality rate in this cohort was 13 percent (n=7/53). The mortality rate was higher in the subgroup of patients on invasive ventilation (18 percent, n=6/34), compared with patients on noninvasive oxygen support (5 percent, n=1/19). Factors associated with an increased risk of mortality included age greater than 70 years (HR vs < 70 years: 11.34 [95% CI 1.36, 94.17]) and higher baseline serum creatinine levels (HR per mg/dL: 1.91 [95% CI 1.22, 2.99]), indicating reduced kidney function.

so... the cohort was people in serious condition. most, almost 2/3 were on invasive ventilation. most (75%) were old, had preexisting conditions, yada. and most walked away. mortality 13%, 18% for the invasive ventilator group. better than 80%. what was mentioned specifically on kidney function was that increased mortality (vs others in the cohort) was observed on those with higher baseline creatine levels to begin with, which indicated ALREADY reduced kidney function. one patient was taken off the protocol specifically because his already poor function(s) was getting worse (not atypical). increased mortality was also observed for those over 70. not surprising.

of course, this was yet another non-randomized non-double-blind study, so clinical results in the positive and on causal side effects won't be avail fully or with stamps of approval/disapproval until they are.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m a right wing delusional? Damn I get accused By Cradle, OS and Peter Brown-eye of being something liberal pole smoker and now you’re weak sauce is coming my way?

You’re a Fng clown. You just complain like a little baby. You give reasonable discourse as bad of a name as bandito. Same dump just other side.

How about you man up and stand on your own two feet instead of being a whiny gimp who has to say “he did it first” like a dumbass pre school girl? That’s some gilded soft stuff.

Talk talk talk. I doubt you are anything but a fragilista who claims others as your own.

Excuse me ? Plz show a post where I accused you of anything ?

You are correct. Have a handful of the cohort who’s ride or die with our president that have thrown me in that bucket and was just pulling names to make a point that these boards are so “side oriented” that even people trying to have a real conversation get segmented into a group. There’s a reason I tell people I’m a registered republican, don’t believe in any labels and prefer to take each isuue independently but if one wanted to segment me I’m probably closest to a libertarian. I can’t stand folks lining me up as monolithic with one “side” or another. Makes me want to puke.

But your reply here is more emotional than 250 posts on issues you’ve vehemently held your ground on. How’s you get so uptight about this and play the semantics games I see you play in defending a specific side so frequently?

Nonetheless I apologize for throwing your name in there, my point is i can’t even make a point on various issues without clowns on both sides who type nonsense accusing me of being one thing or another.

Better?

[wgdsr]

Has Sweden got it right?

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52395866

Still very much TBD.

At halftime, the scoreboard says they are losing pretty badly. 225 deaths per million pop as compared to 74 Denmark, 38 Norway, 35 Finland, 29 Iceland. Most ominously, the UW projection is for them to get up to 1,000. Which would make Sweden worse than even Italy or France. But...

Sweden so far has avoided overwhelming their health care system. They've also been able to keep their lives and economy a bit more normal than other countries (although they are still significantly SD-ing and still paying a huge economic cost). And the Swedes seem mostly to be OK with their path.

Sweden could still win big if they get to herd immunity sooner than other countries do. In the longer run, that would save lots of lives and livelihoods. Just have to wait and see if that plays out. Seems like a stretch at present, but no one really knows.

maybe models will win out. from what i've been witnessing, i'd really like to see how they come up with u.s @ 60 some thousand deaths (we are at 56k +) and sweden @ 9,000 (they are at 2 k +) given that we both have largely flatlined for weeks.
i'm sure they have a great explanation, but i'd love to hear it.

[MDlaxfan76]

thanks, if you are reading and interpreting this correctly, and I'll presume for the moment that you are, that would indeed be good news.

I was just reading what had been directly linked.

Was this randomized in any way, though, or are we all just guessing a bit?

[cradleandshoot]

I’m a right wing delusional? Damn I get accused By Cradle, OS and Peter Brown-eye of being something liberal pole smoker and now you’re weak sauce is coming my way?

You’re a Fng clown. You just complain like a little baby. You give reasonable discourse as bad of a name as bandito. Same dump just other side.

How about you man up and stand on your own two feet instead of being a whiny gimp who has to say “he did it first” like a dumbass pre school girl? That’s some gilded soft stuff.

Talk talk talk. I doubt you are anything but a fragilista who claims others as your own.

Excuse me ? Plz show a post where I accused you of anything ?

You are correct. Have a handful of the cohort who’s ride or die with our president that have thrown me in that bucket and was just pulling names to make a point that these boards are so “side oriented” that even people trying to have a real conversation get segmented into a group. There’s a reason I tell people I’m a registered republican, don’t believe in any labels and prefer to take each isuue independently but if one wanted to segment me I’m probably closest to a libertarian. I can’t stand folks lining me up as monolithic with one “side” or another. Makes me want to puke.

But your reply here is more emotional than 250 posts on issues you’ve vehemently held your ground on. How’s you get so uptight about this and play the semantics games I see you play in defending a specific side so frequently?

Nonetheless I apologize for throwing your name in there, my point is i can’t even make a point on various issues without clowns on both sides who type nonsense accusing me of being one thing or another.

Better?

In so many words what you are telling us all is that you have a superiority complex to all of us lowly peons. Read you Lima Charlie there big dog. How is the air way up there where you are perched on your ivory tower of elitism? Does your chit stink or is the aroma more of roses in bloom? Sorry our ignorance is sooooooooooooo very beneath your level.