All things CoronaVirus

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone care to retract blaming Trump on the Test kit delay...and guess what it's not a fox news link, going to have to go to plan b or c this time?

Contamination at CDC lab delayed rollout of coronavirus tests
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/conta ... r-BB12Q90W

#OrangeManNotBad

South Koreans never stupidly relied on one source for test kits like the Trump administration did. The South Korean government gathered much of industry together at a train station and ordered them to come up with test kits, which they did in little over a week.

That is the difference between intelligent leadership (South Korea) and the moronic denial of Donald Trump, his administration, and his vapid supporters.

DocBarrister

Did South Korea Violate Civil Liberties?

South Korea’s efficiency and effectiveness included surveillance and data gathering without court warrants, compulsory testing, and mandatory isolation, which American citizens might never be on board with, Heritage’s Klingner said.

The South Korean government began testing asymptomatic people, then isolated patients even if they had only mild symptoms. U.S. officials have discouraged those without symptoms from getting tested, in large part because of a shortage of testing equipment.

South Korea changed its law to allow the government to engage in more surveillance to determine who diagnosed citizens were in contact with. The government then could access citizens’ cellphones, credit card and other financial information, and GPS data to know where they had been and who they had been with.

In some cases, the government then could quarantine not only a patient who tests positive but those who came in contact with the patient.

As the new coronavirus spread, China’s communist government was far more restrictive than the South Korea government, enforcing severe bans on speech, forcing isolation, removing people from their residences, and quarantining health care workers.

These actions did slow the spread of the coronavirus, noted Dr. Lee Gross, president of Docs 4 Patient Care, a health care advocacy group.

“You can do that in some societies and they would look favorably upon it,” Gross told The Daily Signal. “I’m not sure people would do that in the U.S.”

Gross, who practices family medicine in North Port, Florida, said that after the New York City quarantine was imposed, New Yorkers began flying into Florida. He said Florida state officials are issuing self-quarantine orders to travelers from such high-risk areas.

“People don’t follow self-stay-at-home orders,” Gross said. “Americans don’t like being told what to do.”

Moffit, the Heritage health policy expert who is a former HHS official, said South Korea’s actions could not occur at a national level in the United States and would be ineffective if tried.

“From a public health perspective, South Korea was very aggressive in isolating people rather than putting them in crowded hospitals,” he said.

So, would it not make sense to allow this sort of action taken during a pandemic?

Would you vote against such action, limited to the application to combat a pandemic?

It's not as if we haven't already given up every aspect of this 'privacy' for commercial benefit, would we really be opposed to the government in these exigent circumstances?

Serious question.

[MDlaxfan76]

You don't get to hammer Trump for "delaying" for two months, while at the same time giving China a pass for fabricating information about how freaking deadly this virus is. China REALLY f'ed the rest of the world on this count.

Had Trump-----or DeBlasio and the rest of our Governors, for that matter-----heard how bad it was in China? I'm hoping they would have acted differently. We'll never know, obviously.

Look at it this way: How mad would you be if Deblasio or Cuomo hid the actual NYC infection and death rates? Others are counting on that information to make their own decisions, no?

I agree, no pass...but we DID KNOW that thousands were dying fast, that their health system was overwhelmed, that it was a national emergency, that they were putting up hospitals in 5 days...what, we didn't think it was actually contagious and deadly??? Locked down an entire province at gun point, splitting families up into camps? Locking down the rest of the country with stay at home orders, drones overhead, canceling their biggest holiday of the year, forbidding travel home? And, what, we didn't know it was really really bad??

They've fired 3,000 bureaucrats over the mishandling of the data, at first not passing it to the national government and then not to the very top.

and I'm not giving Xi a pass in the slightest...the buck stops with him, not just the bureaucrats. Not as bad as their mishandling of SARS but still way less transparent than they need to be. But, hey, who are we kidding here...it's the freaking one Party, authoritarian system. We know this. Right?

But now let's ask a question that's a little uncomfortable. How many have died so far in the United States?

Any push back when NYC decided to do a statistical analysis that incorporates highly likely deaths at home? Should those be included? How about the bodies stacking up at nursing homes?

Are we understating the #'s because we're embarrassed, because it doesn't look good politically, whether domestically or internationally?

and yes, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. China fouled up grossly and should be criticized for such. And then we are accountable for ourselves thereafter. At a minimum by the start of February. And yes, the buck stops with Trump. But not just Trump, all of us who poohed poohed the seriousness of the threat, even after we knew darn well how the math works, after we knew darn well what the price would be for our health workers...

[a fan]

and I'm not giving Xi a pass in the slightest...the buck stops with him, not just the bureaucrats. Not as bad as their mishandling of SARS but still way less transparent than they need to be. But, hey, who are kidding here...it's the freaking one Party, authoritarian system. We know this. Right?

Yes! We know this. But at the same time....you don't F your trading partners like this, and not expect a reaction.

All I'm saying here is-----how helpful would it have been to Trump and every other country to have honest information?

[MDlaxfan76]

and I'm not giving Xi a pass in the slightest...the buck stops with him, not just the bureaucrats. Not as bad as their mishandling of SARS but still way less transparent than they need to be. But, hey, who are kidding here...it's the freaking one Party, authoritarian system. We know this. Right?

Yes! We know this. But at the same time....you don't F your trading partners like this, and not expect a reaction.

All I'm saying here is-----how helpful would it have been to Trump and every other country to have honest information?

To Trump?

Come on. Again, did we really not know?
Or did Trump not want to know?

Sure, there was certainly a delay of weeks, not a month, from when they knew they had a very serious problem. But they sent the genome right away. And they told us within days, not weeks, when they confirmed community spread.

But, what, Trump would have reacted differently?

No one wanted this thing to be an epidemic, much less a pandemic. No one was listening to the doctors and scientists fast enough. Starting with China.

But once we really did know, no more excuses.

But who did react swiftly? SK, Singapore, HK, etc. Asian countries which had previously been battered by pandemics.

They listened and they reacted.

I understand our screw ups, whether at CDC or FDA or by the Task Force or us as citizens at first thinking this didn't involve us. Happens. But sure as hell the top leaders in SK, Singapore, HK, etc weren't on TV for 6 weeks saying it was nothing to worry about.

[old salt]

If they were brown people you wouldn't hear a peep out of MDlax. He's a champion all right, champion of identity politics.

not sure where you get that from, but sure, I do think that folks have some legit beefs based on how more dominant parts of society have treated them.

You want to call that "identity politics", I'd just call it keeping it real.

But the comment about the 'idiots' in these protests weren't about any sort of racial identity politics if that's your concern...unless you see that in the Confederate flag stuff? I guess I'd agree with you that those particular protestors probably fit into the 'idiot' category. Same for the 'idiots' carrying the assault weapons.

Point is...if anyone who you consider a Trumpist ( ) had questioned protester's intelligence as you did, and the protesters were non-white, you'd be claiming "racism" on here.

really?

Or are you saying that if someone said because they were non-white they were idiots?
Or called them idiots while waving the confederate flag perhaps?

This isn't rocket science.
Be racist and we'll know it.

Just be an idiot, whatever color, and we can know that too.

Does waving a rebel flag make a person an idiot? Does waving a BLM flag make somebody anti cop? Does waving a don't tread on me flag make someone a racist? Does waving a Betsy Ross flag also make you a racist? In America who should care what kind of flag you want to wave? The last time I checked we were all free to wave whatever flag we want. Hell if you choose to do so you can burn old glory in the street and in the eyes of some folks, that makes you a true American patriot. Any of you geniuses out there that can figure this entire mess out please advice as to what the solution is. That is what freedom means. When our government starts deciding what are good flags or bad flags this country is sliding down one very slippery slope that will not end well.

We quite agree that we have the freedom to be whatever sort of 'idiot' we prefer.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the government or even a POTUS should be telling us what flags we should salute, which we should not.

But, yeah, if you choose to fly the Confederate battle flag I'll certainly understand that you're giving the finger to the descendants of slaves. But, hey, you might have some other intent and just be too stupid to realize the offense you are giving? Possible.

Pretty sure you'd know what flying a swastika flag meant to express, too.

On BLM, some may well intend to be offensive to police, but lots do not mean it the way those using the Confederate flag intend. They do all want less police violence disproportionate based on ethnicity. So do lots of police, btw.

The Betsy Ross flag, as we discussed, has been a recent appropriation by those wanting to send a racist message. But your having it clearly had no such meaning.

I'm strongly opposed to burning the US flag, but you and I would agree that the government shouldn't get involved.

You know what MD, this may not make sense, i am not sure there is a new generation of young folks that do understand the symbolism behind the rebel flag. How could they possibly understand when way too few of them have ever heard of a place called Gettysburg? Without that knowledge in hand they can never possibly understand the context of the discussion.

It's part of a calculated campaign to stigmatize everything about the Confederacy, deny memorializing anyone who perished on it's behalf, & erase it from our history, as the Germans have done with Nazism. When you visit Germany & tour the history & art museums, it's as if those decades do not exist. It's a historical blind spot when a PC culture is not able to honestly confront it's past -- warts & all.

BS. I want every American to understand the history of the Civil War and slavery and Jim Crow in the United States.

It's the whitewashing of that history I don't want to see happen. Which is what you get when you go into some museums in the South, with euphemisms that sugar coat the horrors of slavery and Jim Crow. They like to talk about the 'sacrifices' made by white southerners to the Cause, brave 'heroes'...

Tell us, Salty, what aspects of the Confederacy are worthy of admiration rather than stigma?
Then tell us how slavery really wasn't so bad and there really wasn't a reign of terror during Jim Crow.

Don Q tilting another strawman windmill. You want every American to understand history as you depict it.
You ask me to tell you. Then you say what you want me to say, which is why rational discourse with sanctimonious virtue seekers is impossible.
Show us where I used the words admirable, sacrifice, or heroes ? Much of history is not admirable. That does not mean it should be erased.

[a fan]

To Trump?

Come on. Again, did we really not know?
Or did Trump not want to know?

Sure, there was certainly a delay of weeks, not a month, from when they knew they had a very serious problem. But they sent the genome right away. And they told us within days, not weeks, when they confirmed community spread.

But, what, Trump would have reacted differently?

You're missing what I'm saying. You don't get to hammer Trump (and again, you're leaving out the Governors) and NOT hammer China for lying.

I'm not saying Trump or our Governor's got it right. I'm saying blame BOTH China for lying, AND our leaders for not taking it seriously.

Wait until the dust settles in few years, and we find out how many REALLY died in China.


For me? The "oh *hit" moment was Italy, and watching them being overwhelmed. Picture getting that "holy cr*p, that's really bad, and it's heading our way" message a few months earlier from China?

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that that would not have been an ENORMOUS help to decision makers around the world.

[MDlaxfan76]

If they were brown people you wouldn't hear a peep out of MDlax. He's a champion all right, champion of identity politics.

not sure where you get that from, but sure, I do think that folks have some legit beefs based on how more dominant parts of society have treated them.

You want to call that "identity politics", I'd just call it keeping it real.

But the comment about the 'idiots' in these protests weren't about any sort of racial identity politics if that's your concern...unless you see that in the Confederate flag stuff? I guess I'd agree with you that those particular protestors probably fit into the 'idiot' category. Same for the 'idiots' carrying the assault weapons.

Point is...if anyone who you consider a Trumpist ( ) had questioned protester's intelligence as you did, and the protesters were non-white, you'd be claiming "racism" on here.

really?

Or are you saying that if someone said because they were non-white they were idiots?
Or called them idiots while waving the confederate flag perhaps?

This isn't rocket science.
Be racist and we'll know it.

Just be an idiot, whatever color, and we can know that too.

Does waving a rebel flag make a person an idiot? Does waving a BLM flag make somebody anti cop? Does waving a don't tread on me flag make someone a racist? Does waving a Betsy Ross flag also make you a racist? In America who should care what kind of flag you want to wave? The last time I checked we were all free to wave whatever flag we want. Hell if you choose to do so you can burn old glory in the street and in the eyes of some folks, that makes you a true American patriot. Any of you geniuses out there that can figure this entire mess out please advice as to what the solution is. That is what freedom means. When our government starts deciding what are good flags or bad flags this country is sliding down one very slippery slope that will not end well.

We quite agree that we have the freedom to be whatever sort of 'idiot' we prefer.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the government or even a POTUS should be telling us what flags we should salute, which we should not.

But, yeah, if you choose to fly the Confederate battle flag I'll certainly understand that you're giving the finger to the descendants of slaves. But, hey, you might have some other intent and just be too stupid to realize the offense you are giving? Possible.

Pretty sure you'd know what flying a swastika flag meant to express, too.

On BLM, some may well intend to be offensive to police, but lots do not mean it the way those using the Confederate flag intend. They do all want less police violence disproportionate based on ethnicity. So do lots of police, btw.

The Betsy Ross flag, as we discussed, has been a recent appropriation by those wanting to send a racist message. But your having it clearly had no such meaning.

I'm strongly opposed to burning the US flag, but you and I would agree that the government shouldn't get involved.

You know what MD, this may not make sense, i am not sure there is a new generation of young folks that do understand the symbolism behind the rebel flag. How could they possibly understand when way too few of them have ever heard of a place called Gettysburg? Without that knowledge in hand they can never possibly understand the context of the discussion.

It's part of a calculated campaign to stigmatize everything about the Confederacy, deny memorializing anyone who perished on it's behalf, & erase it from our history, as the Germans have done with Nazism. When you visit Germany & tour the history & art museums, it's as if those decades do not exist. It's a historical blind spot when a PC culture is not able to honestly confront it's past -- warts & all.

BS. I want every American to understand the history of the Civil War and slavery and Jim Crow in the United States.

It's the whitewashing of that history I don't want to see happen. Which is what you get when you go into some museums in the South, with euphemisms that sugar coat the horrors of slavery and Jim Crow. They like to talk about the 'sacrifices' made by white southerners to the Cause, brave 'heroes'...

Tell us, Salty, what aspects of the Confederacy are worthy of admiration rather than stigma?
Then tell us how slavery really wasn't so bad and there really wasn't a reign of terror during Jim Crow.

Don Q tilting another strawman windmill. You want every American to understand history as you depict it.
You ask me to tell you. Then you say what you want me to say, which is why rational discourse with sanctimonious virtue seekers is impossible.
Show us where I used the words admirable, sacrifice, or heroes ? Much of history is not admirable. That does not mean it should be erased.

Absolutely agree with what is bolded.
No, you didn't use those words, they're my description of some of the museum displays in the South.
Whitewashing the horrors of that history.

But I'm 100% in favor of museums which deal with the history without the sugar coating.
And that's where Confederate statues erected during Jim Crow and symbols belong. In such museums.

Not erased.

You want to 'memorialize' those who died for the Confederacy? They have gravestones.

[MDlaxfan76]

To Trump?

Come on. Again, did we really not know?
Or did Trump not want to know?

Sure, there was certainly a delay of weeks, not a month, from when they knew they had a very serious problem. But they sent the genome right away. And they told us within days, not weeks, when they confirmed community spread.

But, what, Trump would have reacted differently?

You're missing what I'm saying. You don't get to hammer Trump (and again, you're leaving out the Governors) and NOT hammer China for lying.

I'm not saying Trump or our Governor's got it right. I'm saying blame BOTH China for lying, AND our leaders for not taking it seriously.

Wait until the dust settles in few years, and we find out how many REALLY died in China.


For me? The "oh *hit" moment was Italy, and watching them being overwhelmed. Picture getting that "holy cr*p, that's really bad, and it's heading our way" message a few months earlier from China?

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that that would not have been an ENORMOUS help to decision makers around the world.

Nah, that's what we have national intelligence agencies for. We don't have states doing this.

And the IC knew. And Trump knew. Or certainly could have/should have known. It was just inconvenient.

Heck I knew because in mid-late January my son left Shanghai to go to Thailand and we were discussing it daily thereafter. We had been discussing it early in January when he went on a business trip (and skiing) in Japan then returned for a week to Shanghai. We worried when he went back in then...glad to see him leave! And every day, the stories were worse, the reactions by China grew more extreme. Social media in China was full of the dying, with a major escalation when the doc who first blew the whistle died. And the measures being taken by the government were really harsh. And that was known. Fortunately it worked, but it was horrifying.

I understand how you and lots of Americans might not have really grasped this until the pictures on American TV began to come from Italy, but even then we had knuckleheads like Trump and Johnson in the UK claiming it wasn't going to be bad, just another flu.

Just another flu.

But our IC knew, our pandemic experts knew. And our top brass knew.

and yet we have idiots even now claiming it's just another flu...

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-sou ... 2020-4?amp

We are supposed to be the US of A.

[a fan]

Nah, that's what we have national intelligence agencies for. We don't have states doing this.

And the IC knew. And Trump knew.

US intel has the exact numbers of dead? Or heck, within a reasonable range?

I'd wager they don't.

And yes, we ALL assumed they are lying. But again: in what world does that give them a pass?

And again, if it was a EU nation reporting the real carnage in real time, with real media cameras? I believe that would have been ENORMOUSLY helpful. Its really difficult to picture what a pandemic looks like....

Agree to disagree. Let's move on...

[old salt]

I took it seriously & feared it would arrive here eventually when I saw this.

When I drove my wife to BWI on Jan 18 for her flight to FL, I told her I was glad we had a car down there because she'd probably need to drive back home, ...which she did, a month later.

I began social distancing & avoilding public gatherings as soon as the first case popped in the US.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Nah, that's what we have national intelligence agencies for. We don't have states doing this.

And the IC knew. And Trump knew.

US intel has the exact numbers of dead? Or heck, within a reasonable range?

I'd wager they don't.

And yes, we ALL assumed they are lying. But again: in what world does that give them a pass?

And again, if it was a EU nation reporting the real carnage in real time, with real media cameras? I believe that would have been ENORMOUSLY helpful. Its really difficult to picture what a pandemic looks like....

Agree to disagree. Let's move on...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 114753.htm

Smart people had been anticipating something like this. We were slow to react. Lots of reasons why.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I took it seriously & feared it would arrive here eventually when I saw this.

When I drove my wife to BWI on Jan 18 for her flight to FL, I told her I was glad we had a car down there because she'd probably need to drive back home, ...which she did, a month later.

I began social distancing & avoilding public gatherings as soon as the first case popped in the US.

It's not like we had absolutely no idea. Lots of blame to go around. China could have been more open....it Wouldn't surprise me if we would have thought they were lying to shut our economy down. I can't believe this all rested on China being "honest"...

[3rdPersonPlural]

It is quite astonishing that some of you continue to believe anything Trump and his propaganda machine tell you.

More than a dozen U.S. researchers, physicians and public health experts, many of them from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were working full time at the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization as the novel coronavirus emerged late last year and transmitted real-time information about its discovery and spread in China to the Trump administration, according to U.S. and international officials.

A number of CDC staffers are regularly detailed to work at WHO in Geneva as part of a rotation that has operated for years. Senior Trump-appointed health officials also consulted regularly at the highest levels with the WHO as the crisis unfolded, the officials said.

The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump’s charge that the WHO’s failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

DocBarrister

[b"]according to a CDC official who spoke on the condition of anonymity"[/b] from your article. Like all hit pieces from the left especially the WAPO never an attribution. never multiple sources to substantiate the attacks. No one with balls to put their name to the accusations.

The fact is China locked down their own country but let 700k chinese travel the world to celebrate the lunar New year of the Rat.

You can’t blame China or the WHO for Trump’s nearly two months of denial, lies, and inaction.

DocBarrister

What the firetruck are you talking about? OF COURSE you can blame China for letting the rest of the world not know what's going on with this virus.

They F'ed their trading partners by playing games, and not helping the world get ready. China intentionally hid how serious the virus was.....leaving dozens of countries unprepared.

If this virus had originated in the EU? There's NO QUESTION the rest of the world would have been better prepared because of the free flow of information.

I understand why China thought that their economic activity would be threatened if they raised alarms as aggressively as we now would have liked them to at the end of last year. I don't excuse them, but the first impulse is to put a lid on things you don't know a lot about that pose huge threats.

I understand why Trump thought that our economic activity would be threatened if he raised alarms as aggressively as we now would have liked him to at the new year. I don't excuse him, but he's a political animal and his first impulse is to put a lid on things he doesn't know a lot about that pose huge threats.

I can only think of a couple of countries (both in east asia) that said damn the consequences and let's take action now. Both of these have much better intel networks in the PRC than we do and both have been blocked out to a large extent by the White House.

FWIW, I think expecting a Trump Administration to be more transparent than the Xi Administration is wishful thinking.

[CU77]

That news clip was posted on Jan.24. At that point, the truth is known. And many in the Trump admin, including Peter Navarro, understood at that point. (Though Navarro, being a trumpista through and through, then lied about it on 60 Minutes last week.)

See David Frum's column in the Atlantic (I posted a link in the O.D. thread) to understand the Trump's admin's actual strategy going forward.

[tech37]

It is quite astonishing that some of you continue to believe anything Trump and his propaganda machine tell you.

More than a dozen U.S. researchers, physicians and public health experts, many of them from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were working full time at the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization as the novel coronavirus emerged late last year and transmitted real-time information about its discovery and spread in China to the Trump administration, according to U.S. and international officials.

A number of CDC staffers are regularly detailed to work at WHO in Geneva as part of a rotation that has operated for years. Senior Trump-appointed health officials also consulted regularly at the highest levels with the WHO as the crisis unfolded, the officials said.

The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump’s charge that the WHO’s failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

DocBarrister

[b"]according to a CDC official who spoke on the condition of anonymity"[/b] from your article. Like all hit pieces from the left especially the WAPO never an attribution. never multiple sources to substantiate the attacks. No one with balls to put their name to the accusations.

The fact is China locked down their own country but let 700k chinese travel the world to celebrate the lunar New year of the Rat.

You can’t blame China or the WHO for Trump’s nearly two months of denial, lies, and inaction.

DocBarrister

What the firetruck are you talking about? OF COURSE you can blame China for letting the rest of the world not know what's going on with this virus.

They F'ed their trading partners by playing games, and not helping the world get ready. China intentionally hid how serious the virus was.....leaving dozens of countries unprepared.

If this virus had originated in the EU? There's NO QUESTION the rest of the world would have been better prepared because of the free flow of information.

Thanks a fan, I'm taking you more "seriously" now

[Typical Lax Dad]

It is quite astonishing that some of you continue to believe anything Trump and his propaganda machine tell you.

More than a dozen U.S. researchers, physicians and public health experts, many of them from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, were working full time at the Geneva headquarters of the World Health Organization as the novel coronavirus emerged late last year and transmitted real-time information about its discovery and spread in China to the Trump administration, according to U.S. and international officials.

A number of CDC staffers are regularly detailed to work at WHO in Geneva as part of a rotation that has operated for years. Senior Trump-appointed health officials also consulted regularly at the highest levels with the WHO as the crisis unfolded, the officials said.

The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump’s charge that the WHO’s failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... story.html

DocBarrister

[b"]according to a CDC official who spoke on the condition of anonymity"[/b] from your article. Like all hit pieces from the left especially the WAPO never an attribution. never multiple sources to substantiate the attacks. No one with balls to put their name to the accusations.

The fact is China locked down their own country but let 700k chinese travel the world to celebrate the lunar New year of the Rat.

You can’t blame China or the WHO for Trump’s nearly two months of denial, lies, and inaction.

DocBarrister

What the firetruck are you talking about? OF COURSE you can blame China for letting the rest of the world not know what's going on with this virus.

They F'ed their trading partners by playing games, and not helping the world get ready. China intentionally hid how serious the virus was.....leaving dozens of countries unprepared.

If this virus had originated in the EU? There's NO QUESTION the rest of the world would have been better prepared because of the free flow of information.

I understand why China thought that their economic activity would be threatened if they raised alarms as aggressively as we now would have liked them to at the end of last year. I don't excuse them, but the first impulse is to put a lid on things you don't know a lot about that pose huge threats.

I understand why Trump thought that our economic activity would be threatened if he raised alarms as aggressively as we now would have liked him to at the new year. I don't excuse him, but he's a political animal and his first impulse is to put a lid on things he doesn't know a lot about that pose huge threats.

I can only think of a couple of countries (both in east asia) that said damn the consequences and let's take action now. Both of these have much better intel networks in the PRC than we do and both have been blocked out to a large extent by the White House.

FWIW, I think expecting a Trump Administration to be more transparent than the Xi Administration is wishful thinking.

Nobody is more transparent than Trump. He tells us that all the time.

[Peter Brown]

Looking at the corona statistics by deaths alone,

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

comparing that to state populations,

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_ ... population

why do posters here constantly rail Ron DeSantis of Florida and in turn, praise Gretchen Whitmer? If you go by statistics alone, she is an abject failure whereas he has been statistically better by significant measures.

So confused...

[a fan]

FWIW, I think expecting a Trump Administration to be more transparent than the Xi Administration is wishful thinking.

No argument from me....but two wrongs don't make a right. China really screwed the globe by playing their usual fascist game with information.

[tech37]

You don't get to hammer Trump for "delaying" for two months, while at the same time giving China a pass for fabricating information about how freaking deadly this virus is. China REALLY f'ed the rest of the world on this count.

Had Trump-----or DeBlasio and the rest of our Governors, for that matter-----heard how bad it was in China? I'm hoping they would have acted differently. We'll never know, obviously.

Look at it this way: How mad would you be if Deblasio or Cuomo hid the actual NYC infection and death rates? Others are counting on that information to make their own decisions, no?

Right... And lest not forget the distraction factor of impeachment that the POTUS was dealing with, up to and over his orange coif, during same period of time. Of course MDlax and the other resistance clowns on here don't/can't realize

That shameful political stunt hurt this country in ways we'll be dealing with for years.