All things CoronaVirus

[DocBarrister]

Trump was briefed Jan 3. Again on January 18. Limited travel ban on Wuhan was, what, Jan 29?

To be fair, the Chinese implemented their own travel ban Jan 23rd in Wuhan, as tens of thousands were being identified fast. They had confirmed that it was a new coronavirus on Jan 7, should have locked down then or earlier, but were slow off the mark. We think they underreported their #'s at each stage of this, but we knew the #'s they were publicly reporting were big and growing very fast. And our IC was apparently very clear that the situation was very dire in China.

We should have been focused on preparing for testing those first weeks, but once the Chinese actually hit the panic button we definitely knew that this could be huge if it had already gotten out of China, which anyone with access to travel data could have swiftly predicted as a near certainty. The Federal gov't has such data. They knew.

January 28 we had already found two cases in the US, January 30 we had first confirmed community spread in the US. Of course, that had already begun in multiple areas of the US, just undetected.

So, while the Jan 29 ban was correct to do, it was already much too late to be relied upon as sufficient.

Miserable.

When did the WHO or the Chinese provide to the CDC, the first samples & data necessary for the CDC to begin developing test kits ?

early january
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... now-deadly

And here we are in April, still with an insufficient number of tests and testing sites available.

Trump’s failure on testing will be remembered as one of the colossal failures of leadership in American history.

DocBarrister

and there is not a leader among us who would've been properly prepared and executed.

maybe george, jr.

hopefully that will change coming out of this and our children and children's children will be served.

That is a dangerous lie.

Truth is, very few people would have sat on their hands for more than six weeks the way Trump did. Trump delayed because he prioritized his reelection over the lives, health, and safety of the American people. As a matter of tragic and deadly irony, his malignant decision likely sealed his defeat in November.

Trump’s main legacy won’t be impeachment or his other catastrophic failures.

No, Trump’s main legacy will be tens of thousands of lost American souls.

DocBarrister

When the FK will you get it through your skull this pandemic is CHINAS FAULT. Chinese Communists lied and misled the entire world.

182 countries have people DYING in them. ALL BECAUSE OF CHINESE COMMUNISTS

I have no sympathy for the government of China.

Having said that, when you rejoin us from the early 1950s, let me know.

DocBarrister

[DMac]

DMac, thought your link was going to be the Smothers Brothers.

Got ya covered, njbill, Tommy's on a roll.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI7imHKQeE8

[DocBarrister]

hillary put up a psa on her twitter in february about social distancing, etc. 1st check in i believe. then a week plus later hosted what looks like a 500-1000 person premiere to promote her own documentary. then went on talk shows and let a host kiss her.
then jumped in on nationwide watch parties where people were hanging all over themselves. well into the 1st 10 days of march. just what i can see from her twitter feed only.
she retweeted an interview where she talks briefly about being involved in obama's admin during sars (which was 2003.. sic).

biden and other prez contenders were holding rallies until march 10+? biden had to have his big rally cancelled for him by a governor, so he held a smaller one anyway. dems ran polls until march 17th and biden thanked those states for doing them.

the obama administration tested a total of 600k? maybe a few more... people over 9-10 months for h1n1. 50-60 million americans got it, tens of thousands died, vaccine was a cluster though discovered. he played the cards that it wouldn't be 100s of thousands or millions and was ok with that loss and that people wouldn't notice. or be worth the effort.
but never acted in any forceful sense to save those lives.

the partisanship and hate /scorn whatever you want to call it won't cure itself or its damage unless and until people start demanding more of our leaders, not our opposing parties' leaders.

Nonsensical garbage.

First of all, H1N1 was a very different situation. A third of the elderly population already had immunity to it from earlier variants of the virus. The CDC and federal response was hardly perfect, but was certainly relatively quick and timely compared to what we have seen from Trump. Sixty million were infected, but “only” about 12,000+ died in a ONE YEAR period. In comparison, we’re going to see 12,000 dead from the novel coronavirus in about ONE MONTH.

Here ... learn the facts for change:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour ... demic.html

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

Furthermore, the leadership problem in the United States has NOT been a bipartisan problem, it has almost uniquely been a REPUBLICAN PROBLEM in the past three decades. Those decades have seen the rise of some truly abhorrent Republican leaders.

Newt Gingrich arguably established the bitter, take-no-prisoners partisanship in the 1990s. Later, the Republicans elevated a pedophile rapist to the Speakership (Hastert). Mitch McConnell, who was once considered an embarrassment to the entire GOP caucus because of his shameless (corrupt) efforts to bring federal pork to Kentucky, was elevated to Senate Majority Leader. And that brings us to Trump and George W ... two of the most incompetent and dishonest presidents in American history. Trump also made racism, bigotry, and misogyny centerpieces of his national policies.

It is intellectually lazy and factually incorrect to say both parties have had serious problems with their leadership.

The Democrats are hardly perfect, but you can’t say Pelosi, Clinton (either of them), or Obama were incompetent or worked towards a racist agenda. That can only be said of the Republicans.

Democrats have had good, competent leaders because Democrats ALREADY demand more of their leaders.

As for the Republicans? Donald Trump is president. That pretty much says all you need to say about the sub-basement standards the Republicans have for their leaders.

Don’t lecture Democrats. Your admonishments should be directed solely at the morons in the Republican Party.

DocBarrister

you are part of the problem.
the fact that you type in outrage and "learn the facts for a change" lingo to posts that are nonconfrontational and lay out facts means you are here and likely with every political debate you have to stir divisiveness.

you are convinced you are "right" so anyone that doesn't align with your dogma is not only wrong but not worth hearing any healthy debate and definitely worth condemnation.
you will never get anywhere with that approach... here, personally, at large, anywhere.

having different points of view is one of those things that built this country and makes it great. when it becomes a pissing match where it's all about shouting, earmuffs and getting one's way, not so much. you should run for office.

That’s the thing ... it’s not a matter of different points of view. The problem is that too many here make assertions that are contrary to known facts.

Your “facts” were just wrong. It’s not a matter of viewpoint, but the facts. As just one example, the H1N1 vaccine was not a “cluster,” it was developed in 5 months (record time) and distributed to billions within 7 months. It proved to be safe and effective. That was a great success story, not a “cluster.”

It’s part of the problem in the country as a whole ... too many people think they are entitled to their own facts. That can prove deadly in a pandemic ... and it has.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

what facts were wrong?

[njbill]

Thanks, DMac. Hard to believe they are in their 80s. I feel old.

[kramerica.inc]

Doc is the worst stirrer of the pot there is. He is such a Hillary apologist and Trump hater it blinds him to any true discussion of facts. There is no reasoning with him. It’s his way or the highway. Just look at every post he’s made on this thread. He just has his tired narrative. He states “facts” all the time, never backed by any sources. Yet demands that from others.

Don’t waste your breath with him.

For those who wish to actually have a decent discussion, Here is an interesting read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... se/609316/

[DocBarrister]

what facts were wrong?

Pretty much everything about the response to H1N1. Over a million tests (not 600k), vaccine in 5 months, billions of doses of vaccine within 7 months, vaccine was safe and effective, a relatively fast and vigorous response.

As for Hillary, Biden, and Obama ... they are all private citizens. They’re not the ones who are supposed to lead this nation’s response to the novel coronavirus.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Doc is the worst stirrer of the pot there is. He is such a Hillary apologist and Trump hater it blinds him to any true discussion of facts. There is no reasoning with him. It’s his way or the highway. Just look at every post he’s made on this thread. He just has his tired narrative. He states “facts” all the time, never backed by any sources. Yet demands that from others.

Don’t waste your breath with him.

For those who wish to actually have a decent discussion, Here is an interesting read:

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/arc ... se/609316/

When are you going to change the racist title of this thread back to its original form?

DocBarrister

[kramerica.inc]

Another interesting read.

Consider the Possibility That Trump Is Right About China:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... na/609493/

[Typical Lax Dad]

Another interesting read.

Consider the Possibility That Trump Is Right About China:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... na/609493/

Bought and paid for: https://www.hudson.org/

[kramerica.inc]

Tough week ahead for the US:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.co ... dest%3famp

[kramerica.inc]

Expect (this) Corona Virus to be seasonal:

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-tal ... culation=1

[wgdsr]

Your “facts” were just wrong. It’s not a matter of viewpoint, but the facts. As just one example, the H1N1 vaccine was not a “cluster,” it was developed in 5 months (record time) and distributed to billions within 7 months. It proved to be safe and effective. That was a great success story, not a “cluster.”

It’s part of the problem in the country as a whole ... too many people think they are entitled to their own facts. That can prove deadly in a pandemic ... and it has.

DocBarrister

i just googled it for the first time bc i remember it as it happened.
google "swine flu vaccine delays". have fun.
first link is cdc director frustrated. then others on bureacratic, political and other missteps. not figuring outnit was curing weakly until august.
moved a 120 million delivery estimate for sept to 40 m for oct and didnt hit that.
here's the first links i got on that google search (it's a website search engine):

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news ... rustrating

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu- ... VV20091017

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... eaths-rise

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =114156775

there was 11 m late in october. billions, lol. you sound like trump. flu season kicked in and the second wave killed by estimates many more than the first... you're not entitled to your own set of facts.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://the80sruled.com/80s-scandals-oz ... off-a-bat/

[wgdsr]

what facts were wrong?

Pretty much everything about the response to H1N1. Over a million tests (not 600k),

DocBarrister

1st off, i made allowances for the number of tests done being higher, though i'm pretty confident in the sources i went thru.

notwithstanding we had 50-60 million infected and you're quibbling with a number this small in comparison (how would 1 million tests by trump fly with you in 2009?)... anyway -- what is your source?

[DocBarrister]

Your “facts” were just wrong. It’s not a matter of viewpoint, but the facts. As just one example, the H1N1 vaccine was not a “cluster,” it was developed in 5 months (record time) and distributed to billions within 7 months. It proved to be safe and effective. That was a great success story, not a “cluster.”

It’s part of the problem in the country as a whole ... too many people think they are entitled to their own facts. That can prove deadly in a pandemic ... and it has.

DocBarrister

i just googled it for the first time bc i remember it as it happened.
google "swine flu vaccine delays". have fun.
first link is cdc director frustrated. then others on bureacratic, political and other missteps. not figuring outnit was curing weakly until august.
moved a 120 million delivery estimate for sept to 40 m for oct and didnt hit that.
here's the first links i got on that google search (it's a website search engine):

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news ... rustrating

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu- ... VV20091017

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... eaths-rise

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =114156775

there was 11 m late in october. billions, lol. you sound like trump. flu season kicked in and the second wave killed by estimates many more than the first... you're not entitled to your own set of facts.

You do understand that five months development time for a vaccine is amazingly fast, do you not? They sequenced that particular H1N1 variant in April 2009, had a vaccine developed and approved by September 2009, and ultimately delivered billions of doses of the vaccine.

There’s a reason your references are all from October 2009. They had figured out the problem by October, and mass production deliveries started in November 2009.

Now, producing a vaccine for the novel coronavirus won’t be as easy. Normally would take 18 months. With a massive effort, could be done in a year if we’re all lucky.

Still, development of a vaccine against a new H1N1 variant in just 5 months, with mass deliveries in 7 months? That’s pretty impressive.

So, your facts were still wrong and the response to that pandemic was very effective and timely (and during the Great Recession, no less).

It goes to show how standards have dropped for Trump.

Obama leads an effort that produces a vaccine within 5 months, mass deliveries by 7 months, and limits deaths to about 12,400 in ONE YEAR (less than a mild season of “common flu”), and here you are criticizing that effort.

Meanwhile, Trump delays action for nearly two months, his own experts project up to nearly a quarter million deaths, and we almost certainly won’t have a vaccine until next year, and most of your posts are trying to defend Trump.

Sure, coronavirus is a much deadlier contagion, but still ... why would you try and falsely denigrate a public health success story (the 2009 H1N1 response in the U.S.) to help defend Trump?

Why be so dishonest in your posts to this forum?

DocBarrister

[a fan]

Another interesting read.

Consider the Possibility That Trump Is Right About China:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... na/609493/

Complete nonsense piece that only listens to what Trump says, and totally and completely ignores what he actually does. And what he has done.

For example:

Experts had warned of American dependence on key drug ingredients from China. The Wall Street Journal has reported that China is the only maker of key ingredients for certain classes of drugs, including established antibiotics that treat a range of bacterial infections such as pneumonia. American reliance on Chinese suppliers for other pharmaceuticals and medical supplies is also worrisome. Americans should not depend on an authoritarian rival state for its citizens’ health

Go ahead at tell me what Trump did to change this above situation. I'll wait.

More to the point of the piece...what has Trump done to change the course of "Hyper-Globalization".

I'll wait on that count, too.


You want to avoid TDS, that's fine. But don't turn around and invent things that Trump has done. Because he hasn't done them.

[wgdsr]

if you are going to keep saying what i am doing, quote me. show one sentence where i have defended trump. one. you simply cannot be this dense.
the h1n1 vaccine, as you say, was much easier to get going as a solution that would work. but suffered with the delays and into the next year's flu season. if you were given those 2-3 months to comment on it for a rival political party you would've broken fanlax's bandwidth limits. it wasn't developed months and months later. they had the formula for it straight away. they figured out the problem in august.

it was supposed to be delivered and then some for the flu season. it was late. it cost lives and sometimes that's what happens when a government either isn't prepared or motivated to prevent it. what is your source on tests?

[DocBarrister]

if you are going to keep saying what i am doing, quote me. show one sentence where i have defended trump. one. you simply cannot be this dense.
the h1n1 vaccine, as you say, was much easier to get going as a solution that would work. but suffered with the delays and into the next year's flu season. if you were given those 2-3 months to comment on it for a rival political party you would've broken fanlax's bandwidth limits. it wasn't developed months and months later. they had the formula for it straight away. they figured out the problem in august.

it was supposed to be delivered and then some for the flu season. it was late. it cost lives and sometimes that's what happens when a government either isn't prepared or motivated to prevent it. what is your source on tests?

Please, the whole point of your posts has been to claim that no one else would have done any better than Trump in responding to the pandemic. You tried to make that point by falsely framing Obama’s H1N1 response as a failure, which it was not. No pandemic response is perfect, and that one wasn’t, but it was pretty darn successful.

Claiming that others wouldn’t have responded any better than Trump is just about the biggest act of absolution you can give him.

It is also a patently false assessment. Just take a look at the CDC timeline in 2009 and see how quickly the federal government reacted.

You also never bothered reading the CDC links I provided. The test information is there. CDC discusses how it began sending out test kits (each single kit being able to test 1,000 specimens) within two weeks of the first detected U.S. case.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

Your “facts” were just wrong. It’s not a matter of viewpoint, but the facts. As just one example, the H1N1 vaccine was not a “cluster,” it was developed in 5 months (record time) and distributed to billions within 7 months. It proved to be safe and effective. That was a great success story, not a “cluster.”

It’s part of the problem in the country as a whole ... too many people think they are entitled to their own facts. That can prove deadly in a pandemic ... and it has.

DocBarrister

i just googled it for the first time bc i remember it as it happened.
google "swine flu vaccine delays". have fun.
first link is cdc director frustrated. then others on bureacratic, political and other missteps. not figuring outnit was curing weakly until august.
moved a 120 million delivery estimate for sept to 40 m for oct and didnt hit that.
here's the first links i got on that google search (it's a website search engine):

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news ... rustrating

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu- ... VV20091017

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspect ... eaths-rise

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =114156775

there was 11 m late in october. billions, lol. you sound like trump. flu season kicked in and the second wave killed by estimates many more than the first... you're not entitled to your own set of facts.

You do understand that five months development time for a vaccine is amazingly fast, do you not? They sequenced that particular H1N1 variant in April 2009, had a vaccine developed and approved by September 2009, and ultimately delivered billions of doses of the vaccine.

There’s a reason your references are all from October 2009. They had figured out the problem by October, and mass production deliveries started in November 2009.

Now, producing a vaccine for the novel coronavirus won’t be as easy. Normally would take 18 months. With a massive effort, could be done in a year if we’re all lucky.

Still, development of a vaccine against a new H1N1 variant in just 5 months, with mass deliveries in 7 months? That’s pretty impressive.

So, your facts were still wrong and the response to that pandemic was very effective and timely (and during the Great Recession, no less).

It goes to show how standards have dropped for Trump.

Obama leads an effort that produces a vaccine within 5 months, mass deliveries by 7 months, and limits deaths to about 12,400 in ONE YEAR (less than a mild season of “common flu”), and here you are criticizing that effort.

Meanwhile, Trump delays action for nearly two months, his own experts project up to nearly a quarter million deaths, and we almost certainly won’t have a vaccine until next year, and most of your posts are trying to defend Trump.

Sure, coronavirus is a much deadlier contagion, but still ... why would you try and falsely denigrate a public health success story (the 2009 H1N1 response in the U.S.) to help defend Trump?

Why be so dishonest in your posts to this forum?

DocBarrister

btw, while we're at it... where were billions of doses of vaccine in november delivered to and produced from?

here's what i have from the cdc:
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/vaccination ... 012210.htm

why do you believe if there were billions of doses in november, had we sent only 76 million to the states as of mid december? and 100 m and change by the end of january? why was that?