All things CoronaVirus

[wgdsr]

i would imagine every administration for decades have been told to sit for a pandemic presentation (and follow ups) along with dozens of other national security concerns.

as they are random (and not that frequent) events that can't be predicted with much lead time, paradoxically they've been put on the shelf. even bush never followed through.

Except the world has literally had a H1N1 pandemic and an Ebola epidemic in the past decade that we've had to deal with as a nation.

Coronavirus deaths are going to pass the entire H1N1 death total in the US in approximately 2 days. 95% of those deaths happened in the previous two weeks and daily deaths are still increasing.

We've had plans for this, and have dealt with similar things every few presidencies. Trump's predilection for reversing or throwing away everything Obama did has caused unnecessary death and suffering.

are there hundreds of countries that are in the same boat right now, or not? do you understand now that this virus is different with regard to transmission, immunity, or not?
do you believe we destroyed 100s of thousands of ventilators upon trump's inauguration?
all other ppe?
did we shut down 100s or 1000s of testing facilities?
or were we not ready? now and 5, 15 years ago.

[RedFromMI]

i would imagine every administration for decades have been told to sit for a pandemic presentation (and follow ups) along with dozens of other national security concerns.

as they are random (and not that frequent) events that can't be predicted with much lead time, paradoxically they've been put on the shelf. even bush never followed through.

Except the world has literally had a H1N1 pandemic and an Ebola epidemic in the past decade that we've had to deal with as a nation.

Coronavirus deaths are going to pass the entire H1N1 death total in the US in approximately 2 days. 95% of those deaths happened in the previous two weeks and daily deaths are still increasing.

We've had plans for this, and have dealt with similar things every few presidencies. Trump's predilection for reversing or throwing away everything Obama did has caused unnecessary death and suffering.

are there hundreds of countries that are in the same boat right now, or not? do you understand now that this virus is different with regard to transmission, immunity, or not?
do you believe we destroyed 100s of thousands of ventilators upon trump's inauguration?
all other ppe?
did we shut down 100s or 1000s of testing facilities?
or were we not ready? now and 5, 15 years ago.

We in the not so distant past had a better structure (started with GWB and continued with Obama) but Congress has been painfully slow in providing the funding needed. Tea party types probably the least helpful.

And of course Trump sees something Obama does and wants to undo it no matter what...

But we never had the kind of ventilator stock needed for this one...

[Typical Lax Dad]

i would imagine every administration for decades have been told to sit for a pandemic presentation (and follow ups) along with dozens of other national security concerns.

as they are random (and not that frequent) events that can't be predicted with much lead time, paradoxically they've been put on the shelf. even bush never followed through.

Except the world has literally had a H1N1 pandemic and an Ebola epidemic in the past decade that we've had to deal with as a nation.

Coronavirus deaths are going to pass the entire H1N1 death total in the US in approximately 2 days. 95% of those deaths happened in the previous two weeks and daily deaths are still increasing.

We've had plans for this, and have dealt with similar things every few presidencies. Trump's predilection for reversing or throwing away everything Obama did has caused unnecessary death and suffering.

are there hundreds of countries that are in the same boat right now, or not? do you understand now that this virus is different with regard to transmission, immunity, or not?
do you believe we destroyed 100s of thousands of ventilators upon trump's inauguration?
all other ppe?
did we shut down 100s or 1000s of testing facilities?
or were we not ready? now and 5, 15 years ago.

We were slow to react. We wasted time....we had a head start and wasted time. Not taking the test kits from the WHO proved to be a bad mistake. We wanted a USA company to wet its beak manufacturing and selling kits. We never had a national stockpile of ventilators built because Obama had it farmed out to private industry so private industry could wet its beak. Company changed hands and private company management decided it wasn’t a priority. Private equity has many hospitals running lean. When companies come before people, this is what you get. Wait until the peasants go back to work too soon to serve corporate interest. The second dip to the economy will be even worse.

[RedFromMI]

i would imagine every administration for decades have been told to sit for a pandemic presentation (and follow ups) along with dozens of other national security concerns.

as they are random (and not that frequent) events that can't be predicted with much lead time, paradoxically they've been put on the shelf. even bush never followed through.

Except the world has literally had a H1N1 pandemic and an Ebola epidemic in the past decade that we've had to deal with as a nation.

Coronavirus deaths are going to pass the entire H1N1 death total in the US in approximately 2 days. 95% of those deaths happened in the previous two weeks and daily deaths are still increasing.

We've had plans for this, and have dealt with similar things every few presidencies. Trump's predilection for reversing or throwing away everything Obama did has caused unnecessary death and suffering.

are there hundreds of countries that are in the same boat right now, or not? do you understand now that this virus is different with regard to transmission, immunity, or not?
do you believe we destroyed 100s of thousands of ventilators upon trump's inauguration?
all other ppe?
did we shut down 100s or 1000s of testing facilities?
or were we not ready? now and 5, 15 years ago.

We were slow to react. We wasted time....we had a head start and wasted time. Not taking the test kits from the WHO proved to be a bad mistake. We wanted a USA company to wet its beak manufacturing and selling kits. We never had a national stockpile of ventilators built because Obama had it farmed out to private industry so private industry could wet its beak. Company changed hands and private company management decided it wasn’t a priority. Private equity has many hospitals running lean. When companies come before people, this is what you get. Wait until the peasants go back to work too soon to serve corporate interest. The second dip to the economy will be even worse.

Amen. From WaPo yesterday just on this:

The U.S. was beset by denial and dysfunction as the coronavirus raged
From the Oval Office to the CDC, political and institutional failures cascaded through the system and opportunities to mitigate the pandemic were lost.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... rc404=true

By the time Donald Trump proclaimed himself a wartime president — and the coronavirus the enemy — the United States was already on course to see more of its people die than in the wars of Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

The country has adopted an array of wartime measures never employed collectively in U.S. history — banning incoming travelers from two continents, bringing commerce to a near-halt, enlisting industry to make emergency medical gear, and confining 230 million Americans to their homes in a desperate bid to survive an attack by an unseen adversary.

Despite these and other extreme steps, the United States will likely go down as the country that was supposedly best prepared to fight a pandemic but ended up catastrophically overmatched by the novel coronavirus, sustaining heavier casualties than any other nation.

It did not have to happen this way. Though not perfectly prepared, the United States had more expertise, resources, plans and epidemiological experience than dozens of countries that ultimately fared far better in fending off the virus.

[wgdsr]

worldometer numbers are encouraging in trendline. they almost look like "sunday" numbers. maybe we'll know more with tomorrow's.

hardest hit areas of europe, too lately. but so much noise in the numbers, who can get tests, get into a hospital. for now, many places aren't parabolic. i personally figured 15-20 days on social distancing measures... 3-5 days for symptoms, find a place to get a test or days until admitted so can get one... a week plus on test results. a lag on the fewer contacts vs a larger infected base...
we're about there at a lot of places. fingers crossed.

[6ftstick]

Trump was briefed Jan 3. Again on January 18. Limited travel ban on Wuhan was, what, Jan 29?

To be fair, the Chinese implemented their own travel ban Jan 23rd in Wuhan, as tens of thousands were being identified fast. They had confirmed that it was a new coronavirus on Jan 7, should have locked down then or earlier, but were slow off the mark. We think they underreported their #'s at each stage of this, but we knew the #'s they were publicly reporting were big and growing very fast. And our IC was apparently very clear that the situation was very dire in China.

We should have been focused on preparing for testing those first weeks, but once the Chinese actually hit the panic button we definitely knew that this could be huge if it had already gotten out of China, which anyone with access to travel data could have swiftly predicted as a near certainty. The Federal gov't has such data. They knew.

January 28 we had already found two cases in the US, January 30 we had first confirmed community spread in the US. Of course, that had already begun in multiple areas of the US, just undetected.

So, while the Jan 29 ban was correct to do, it was already much too late to be relied upon as sufficient.

Miserable.

When did the WHO or the Chinese provide to the CDC, the first samples & data necessary for the CDC to begin developing test kits ?

early january
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... now-deadly

And here we are in April, still with an insufficient number of tests and testing sites available.

Trump’s failure on testing will be remembered as one of the colossal failures of leadership in American history.

DocBarrister

and there is not a leader among us who would've been properly prepared and executed.

maybe george, jr.

hopefully that will change coming out of this and our children and children's children will be served.

That is a dangerous lie.

Truth is, very few people would have sat on their hands for more than six weeks the way Trump did. Trump delayed because he prioritized his reelection over the lives, health, and safety of the American people. As a matter of tragic and deadly irony, his malignant decision likely sealed his defeat in November.

Trump’s main legacy won’t be impeachment or his other catastrophic failures.

No, Trump’s main legacy will be tens of thousands of lost American souls.

DocBarrister

When the FK will you get it through your skull this pandemic is CHINAS FAULT. Chinese Communists lied and misled the entire world.

182 countries have people DYING in them. ALL BECAUSE OF CHINESE COMMUNISTS

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trump was briefed Jan 3. Again on January 18. Limited travel ban on Wuhan was, what, Jan 29?

To be fair, the Chinese implemented their own travel ban Jan 23rd in Wuhan, as tens of thousands were being identified fast. They had confirmed that it was a new coronavirus on Jan 7, should have locked down then or earlier, but were slow off the mark. We think they underreported their #'s at each stage of this, but we knew the #'s they were publicly reporting were big and growing very fast. And our IC was apparently very clear that the situation was very dire in China.

We should have been focused on preparing for testing those first weeks, but once the Chinese actually hit the panic button we definitely knew that this could be huge if it had already gotten out of China, which anyone with access to travel data could have swiftly predicted as a near certainty. The Federal gov't has such data. They knew.

January 28 we had already found two cases in the US, January 30 we had first confirmed community spread in the US. Of course, that had already begun in multiple areas of the US, just undetected.

So, while the Jan 29 ban was correct to do, it was already much too late to be relied upon as sufficient.

Miserable.

When did the WHO or the Chinese provide to the CDC, the first samples & data necessary for the CDC to begin developing test kits ?

early january
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... now-deadly

And here we are in April, still with an insufficient number of tests and testing sites available.

Trump’s failure on testing will be remembered as one of the colossal failures of leadership in American history.

DocBarrister

and there is not a leader among us who would've been properly prepared and executed.

maybe george, jr.

hopefully that will change coming out of this and our children and children's children will be served.

That is a dangerous lie.

Truth is, very few people would have sat on their hands for more than six weeks the way Trump did. Trump delayed because he prioritized his reelection over the lives, health, and safety of the American people. As a matter of tragic and deadly irony, his malignant decision likely sealed his defeat in November.

Trump’s main legacy won’t be impeachment or his other catastrophic failures.

No, Trump’s main legacy will be tens of thousands of lost American souls.

DocBarrister

When the FK will you get it through your skull this pandemic is CHINAS FAULT. Chinese Communists lied and misled the entire world.

182 countries have people DYING in them. ALL BECAUSE OF CHINESE COMMUNISTS

“A friend said he could not believe we have 182 countries in the world”...where did I hear that?

[a fan]

the partisanship and hate /scorn whatever you want to call it won't cure itself or its damage unless and until people start demanding more of our leaders, not our opposing parties' leaders.

Where the heck is the "loud applause" emoji ???

This. Exactly this. 20 years of partisanship is what gave us a dysfunctional government in the first place. The government is not a toy, yet it has been treated as such by Congress and the POTUS for 20 years.\

[Typical Lax Dad]

the partisanship and hate /scorn whatever you want to call it won't cure itself or its damage unless and until people start demanding more of our leaders, not our opposing parties' leaders.

Where the heck is the "loud applause" emoji ???

This. Exactly this. 20 years of partisanship is what gave us a dysfunctional government in the first place. The government is not a toy, yet it has been treated as such by Congress and the POTUS for 20 years.\

+1

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4 ... asks-march

This is what you get from a jack leg real estate developer that basically runs a large family office.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/4 ... asks-march

[ardilla secreta]

Wouldn’t the people running the United States have awareness of these Chinese Communists and have the resources to identify what is true and what is false coming from these Chinese Communists and make appropriate decisions?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Wouldn’t the people running the United States have awareness of these Chinese Communists and have the resources to identify what is true and what is false coming from these Chinese Communists and make appropriate decisions?

Nope. We rely on what China tells us. China and Fauci are the reasons we were not prepared.

[DMac]

Last night I watched the Smothers Brothers show, was flipping through the channels and stumbled upon it, caught it right at the beginning. Can't even tell you how good it was. Guests: Betty Davis, Mikey Rooney, The Who. Nuff said. Tommy and Dick opened up with Watzing Matilda, the back and forth about the meaning of the song was classic Smothers Brothers (I never knew what a matilda is either), those two were really good.
I, like everyone else, hope we find the elixer/cure/remedy/salve/concoction that wipes carona out in the physical way. I have confidence in the collective brain power of man (okay, woman too) to do that, my hope is it happens much sooner than later. Meanwhile, the damage it's doing to the psyche might be more destructive than the virus itself. The 24/7 inescapable carona news/advice/discussion has too many people in a state of panic and fear, you can see it and feel it. My prescription for the psche part is to tune into the Smothers Brothers and turn off the constant doom and gloom. Geezuz H, I've had enough of celebrities (like they know any more about all this than I do) with the, you just lost your puppy to the bumper of a pick up truck going 50 mph, eyes telling me in a woeful tone how to live ands how dire times are.
Lotta folks out there there need to get a grip and chill a little, we aint dead yet fer chrissakes. Live like you aint (I just don't see how you can shut the country down, that's not going to work for long).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

[DocBarrister]

hillary put up a psa on her twitter in february about social distancing, etc. 1st check in i believe. then a week plus later hosted what looks like a 500-1000 person premiere to promote her own documentary. then went on talk shows and let a host kiss her.
then jumped in on nationwide watch parties where people were hanging all over themselves. well into the 1st 10 days of march. just what i can see from her twitter feed only.
she retweeted an interview where she talks briefly about being involved in obama's admin during sars (which was 2003.. sic).

biden and other prez contenders were holding rallies until march 10+? biden had to have his big rally cancelled for him by a governor, so he held a smaller one anyway. dems ran polls until march 17th and biden thanked those states for doing them.

the obama administration tested a total of 600k? maybe a few more... people over 9-10 months for h1n1. 50-60 million americans got it, tens of thousands died, vaccine was a cluster though discovered. he played the cards that it wouldn't be 100s of thousands or millions and was ok with that loss and that people wouldn't notice. or be worth the effort.
but never acted in any forceful sense to save those lives.

the partisanship and hate /scorn whatever you want to call it won't cure itself or its damage unless and until people start demanding more of our leaders, not our opposing parties' leaders.

Nonsensical garbage.

First of all, H1N1 was a very different situation. A third of the elderly population already had immunity to it from earlier variants of the virus. The CDC and federal response was hardly perfect, but was certainly relatively quick and timely compared to what we have seen from Trump. Sixty million were infected, but “only” about 12,000+ died in a ONE YEAR period. In comparison, we’re going to see 12,000 dead from the novel coronavirus in about ONE MONTH.

Here ... learn the facts for change:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour ... demic.html

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

Furthermore, the leadership problem in the United States has NOT been a bipartisan problem, it has almost uniquely been a REPUBLICAN PROBLEM in the past three decades. Those decades have seen the rise of some truly abhorrent Republican leaders.

Newt Gingrich arguably established the bitter, take-no-prisoners partisanship in the 1990s. Later, the Republicans elevated a pedophile rapist to the Speakership (Hastert). Mitch McConnell, who was once considered an embarrassment to the entire GOP caucus because of his shameless (corrupt) efforts to bring federal pork to Kentucky, was elevated to Senate Majority Leader. And that brings us to Trump and George W ... two of the most incompetent and dishonest presidents in American history. Trump also made racism, bigotry, and misogyny centerpieces of his national policies.

It is intellectually lazy and factually incorrect to say both parties have had serious problems with their leadership.

The Democrats are hardly perfect, but you can’t say Pelosi, Clinton (either of them), or Obama were incompetent or worked towards a racist agenda. That can only be said of the Republicans.

Democrats have had good, competent leaders because Democrats ALREADY demand more of their leaders.

As for the Republicans? Donald Trump is president. That pretty much says all you need to say about the sub-basement standards the Republicans have for their leaders.

Don’t lecture Democrats. Your admonishments should be directed solely at the morons in the Republican Party.

DocBarrister

[njbill]

DMac, thought your link was going to be the Smothers Brothers. Equally good, though in an entirely different way. To take one of the greatest melodies ever written and come up with a really good alternative, as IZ did, is genius.

[DocBarrister]

Last night I watched the Smothers Brothers show, was flipping through the channels and stumbled upon it, caught it right at the beginning. Can't even tell you how good it was. Guests: Betty Davis, Mikey Rooney, The Who. Nuff said. Tommy and Dick opened up with Watzing Matilda, the back and forth about the meaning of the song was classic Smothers Brothers (I never knew what a matilda is either), those two were really good.
I, like everyone else, hope we find the elixer/cure/remedy/salve/concoction that wipes carona out in the physical way. I have confidence in the collective brain power of man (okay, woman too) to do that, my hope is it happens much sooner than later. Meanwhile, the damage it's doing to the psyche might be more destructive than the virus itself. The 24/7 inescapable carona news/advice/discussion has too many people in a state of panic and fear, you can see it and feel it. My prescription for the psche part is to tune into the Smothers Brothers and turn off the constant doom and gloom. Geezuz H, I've had enough of celebrities (like they know any more about all this than I do) with the, you just lost your puppy to the bumper of a pick up truck going 50 mph, eyes telling me in a woeful tone how to live ands how dire times are.
Lotta folks out there there need to get a grip and chill a little, we aint dead yet fer chrissakes. Live like you aint (I just don't see how you can shut the country down, that's not going to work for long).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

“[W]e aint [sic] dead yet fer chrissakes?!?”

About 10,000 already are, and we could seen another 30,000 dead by the end of this month.

Too many Americans, starting with the Moron-in-Chief, haven’t been taking this crisis seriously enough.

We’re still on the upswing in this crisis. Any talk of loosening restrictions before June is pretty reckless.

Furthermore, we are not even on a national lockdown. I share concerns that we are going to see multiple waves of infections and deaths because the response has been so uneven across the country.

At the end of the day, considering the massive resources available, the United States may well be remembered as the one nation that screwed up its response more than any other.

Nothing against the Smothers Brothers (loved them as a kid), but everyone needs to keep their eyes on the ball for quite a bit longer.

DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

hillary put up a psa on her twitter in february about social distancing, etc. 1st check in i believe. then a week plus later hosted what looks like a 500-1000 person premiere to promote her own documentary. then went on talk shows and let a host kiss her.
then jumped in on nationwide watch parties where people were hanging all over themselves. well into the 1st 10 days of march. just what i can see from her twitter feed only.
she retweeted an interview where she talks briefly about being involved in obama's admin during sars (which was 2003.. sic).

biden and other prez contenders were holding rallies until march 10+? biden had to have his big rally cancelled for him by a governor, so he held a smaller one anyway. dems ran polls until march 17th and biden thanked those states for doing them.

the obama administration tested a total of 600k? maybe a few more... people over 9-10 months for h1n1. 50-60 million americans got it, tens of thousands died, vaccine was a cluster though discovered. he played the cards that it wouldn't be 100s of thousands or millions and was ok with that loss and that people wouldn't notice. or be worth the effort.
but never acted in any forceful sense to save those lives.

the partisanship and hate /scorn whatever you want to call it won't cure itself or its damage unless and until people start demanding more of our leaders, not our opposing parties' leaders.

Nonsensical garbage.

First of all, H1N1 was a very different situation. A third of the elderly population already had immunity to it from earlier variants of the virus. The CDC and federal response was hardly perfect, but was certainly relatively quick and timely compared to what we have seen from Trump. Sixty million were infected, but “only” about 12,000+ died in a ONE YEAR period. In comparison, we’re going to see 12,000 dead from the novel coronavirus in about ONE MONTH.

Here ... learn the facts for change:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resour ... demic.html

https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/cdcresponse.htm

Furthermore, the leadership problem in the United States has NOT been a bipartisan problem, it has almost uniquely been a REPUBLICAN PROBLEM in the past three decades. Those decades have seen the rise of some truly abhorrent Republican leaders.

Newt Gingrich arguably established the bitter, take-no-prisoners partisanship in the 1990s. Later, the Republicans elevated a pedophile rapist to the Speakership (Hastert). Mitch McConnell, who was once considered an embarrassment to the entire GOP caucus because of his shameless (corrupt) efforts to bring federal pork to Kentucky, was elevated to Senate Majority Leader. And that brings us to Trump and George W ... two of the most incompetent and dishonest presidents in American history. Trump also made racism, bigotry, and misogyny centerpieces of his national policies.

It is intellectually lazy and factually incorrect to say both parties have had serious problems with their leadership.

The Democrats are hardly perfect, but you can’t say Pelosi, Clinton (either of them), or Obama were incompetent or worked towards a racist agenda. That can only be said of the Republicans.

Democrats have had good, competent leaders because Democrats ALREADY demand more of their leaders.

As for the Republicans? Donald Trump is president. That pretty much says all you need to say about the sub-basement standards the Republicans have for their leaders.

Don’t lecture Democrats. Your admonishments should be directed solely at the morons in the Republican Party.

DocBarrister

you are part of the problem.
the fact that you type in outrage and "learn the facts for a change" lingo to posts that are nonconfrontational and lay out facts means you are here and likely with every political debate you have to stir divisiveness.

you are convinced you are "right" so anyone that doesn't align with your dogma is not only wrong but not worth hearing any healthy debate and definitely worth condemnation.
you will never get anywhere with that approach... here, personally, at large, anywhere.

having different points of view is one of those things that built this country and makes it great. when it becomes a pissing match where it's all about shouting, earmuffs and getting one's way, not so much. you should run for office.

[old salt]

Not taking the test kits from the WHO proved to be a bad mistake. We wanted a USA company to wet its beak manufacturing and selling kits.

Keep peddling that false narrative. The WHO did not offer finished test kits. They gave us the same data & sample material that they gave other developed nations for each to design, certity & produce their own test kits. The S Koreans & the Germans got it right the first try. The US & Japan did not.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not taking the test kits from the WHO proved to be a bad mistake. We wanted a USA company to wet its beak manufacturing and selling kits.

Keep peddling that false narrative. The WHO did not offer finished test kits. They gave us the same data & sample material that they gave other developed nations for each to design, certity & produce their own test kits. The S Koreans & the Germans got it right the first try. The US & Japan did not.

Thanks. I was wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/us-coronavirus-test/

[old salt]

Not taking the test kits from the WHO proved to be a bad mistake. We wanted a USA company to wet its beak manufacturing and selling kits.

Keep peddling that false narrative. The WHO did not offer finished test kits. They gave us the same data & sample material that they gave other developed nations for each to design, certity & produce their own test kits. The S Koreans & the Germans got it right the first try. The US & Japan did not.

Thanks. I was wrong: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/us-coronavirus-test/

Looks like the initial low rate of testing in Japan was bureaucratic not technical, yet they've had far fewer cases & community spread.
Apparently the Grand Princess got their public's attention & they were more compliant with lockdowns & social distancing.
With their population density & dependence on public transportation, why are they not like Italy or NYC ?
(could it be that disciplined Asian cultural thing ?)

https://safecast.org/2020/03/covid-19-t ... fications/