Trump's Russian Collusion

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jhu72
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by jhu72 »

ggait wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:33 pm There's no reason why the report can't be released. Easy to scrub it of grand jury and intelligence items. Look at all the indictments and other filings Mueller has publicly released. Also no reason why Mueller and Barr can't be asked to explain why Mueller demurred on obstruction and Barr did not.

It is going to take some time to really know what Barr/Rosenstein/Mueller are up to here. First, they'll testify. Second, some version of the report will go to Congress and to the public. Third, possible additional shoes may (or may not) be dropped from various USAOs that Mueller handed things off to.

#3 is really the total wild card/black box in this. Looks like Mueller was aggressively handing things off throughout his whole tenure (like the Cohen case). So while Mueller has wound up his work, TBD what happens to his hand-off cases.

For example, what is the deal with all those sealed indictments sitting on the docket in USDC and EDVA? Barr says that there are no sealed indictments "obtained by Mueller." So does that mean those all are completely unrelated to this? Or could they be related but "obtained" and coming from USAOs on cases Mueller handed off? I have no clue.

I think the only thing we know for sure is that Trump isn't going to be impeached before the 2020 election. That's a perfectly good outcome for me.
There are 4 supposedly known DOJ districts involved (if you believe the talking heads) with Mueller related work product to carry forward. The three we were aware of SDNY, DC, EDVA and a 4th new possibility Los Angeles. Have no idea what they are working on in Los Angeles or if it is even true.

The assumption all along has been that Mueller was passing off anything that was not directly related to the issue of Russian Conspiracy to one of the three district offices. But we don't know that for certain. It seems to be the pattern. I have seen no comment from Mueller or anyone else in the DOJ that was his algorithm, that this was the limit. What is to say he did not push forward something to do with conspiracy that he did not have time to finish?

The Stone case is as close as Mueller got to the issue. I have taken a closer look at the Roger Stone Indictment which is the closest any indictment has come to conspiracy (apart from the Russian indictments). Some would say Stone's case is a case of conspiracy, not Criminal Conspiracy, but conspiracy, collusion, collaboration, etc.. The case hits Stone with 5 counts of lying to the Senate, the House and the FBI, and a single count each of Witness Tampering and Obstruction of Justice. Some things in that indictment don't make sense standing alone or in conjunction with any previous indictment. Makes one wonder if there might not be follow on counts to that indictment. Remember this indictment was made under Matthew Whitaker at a time when it was clear Mueller had to wrap it up soon.

Something else strange with the Stone case. Mueller specifically asked the judge to slow roll it, that's why it was set for early November. There were apparently earlier dates available. Mueller claims the case will take 5 to 8 days for presentation and is a complex case. When you look at what he charges, the evidence he presents in the indictment, I don't see the complexity. He has written documents as evidence for everything he charges. Doesn't seem complex at all, when you look at the evidence presented. Seems very straight forward, but he gave the judge the "complex case" reason for requesting the slow roll. Why the slow roll?
Last edited by jhu72 on Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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Bandito wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:32 amEverything you posted is false. You are a moron!!!... etc..
Tweet, Bandito, 1 Minute (2 Day) Penalty for Unsportsmanlike Conduct. You can read everywhere but can only post within the Penalty Box. Your penalty will be released on Thursday at 6:30 PM EST.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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a fan wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:40 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:02 pm Conspiracy charge a whisker away from being true ? If there's no whiskers, there's no beard.

Maybe Butina was a freelancing wannabe, like Stone, Manafort & Gates, all trying to get in on the action of a Trump candidacy or Presidency
Riiiiiight. Just a small town Russian girl, meeting with the staff of the Republican nominee for President. Looking for a summer internship.

Come on.
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:02 pm We're not in what if territory anymore. Mueller's done & no more indictments. Let it go.
If you want to hang your hat on "that's not illegal", we'll have nothing to discuss here at the new Water Cooler.

If Butina gave them something, that's it. Game over. Trumps toadies are lucky she didn't.
You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.

Maria Butina penetrated the NRA...we don't know how far she got, but the $30mm of mystery money that flowed is an outstanding question, at least for the public. Apparently Mueller didn't find that Trump directly conspired in that act. Did he follow that trail or is that one of the ongoing investigations he handed off?

Natalia Veselnitskaya is the Russian lawyer-agent at the Trump Tower meeting with Trump's namesake, his campaign manager and his son in law. Though we know publicly that Don Jr expressed enthusiasm about receiving Russian intel damaging to HRC from her, and that Trump concocted a false cover story for the press, apparently Mueller couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump or these knuckleheads (son, son in law, campaign manager) actually conspired with the Russians. (they just were open to it, didn't report the interaction to the FBI even after the FBI warned them that the Russians were making efforts to penetrate the campaign). But prove conspiracy beyond any doubt? Apparently not.

The BS above about everyone cooperating is simply false. Manafort claimed to be cooperating, but did not. Continued to lie and witness tamper. Trump continued to dangle pardon and I'd bet my bottom dollar that's going to come. Son and son in law, no cooperation. Yes, assistant Campaign Manager, Gates, cooperated, but he wasn't in the meeting. Flynn cooperated, but he wasn't in the meeting. So, if you don't have the hard proof, you don't indict.

Note that Mueller does NOT conclude, far as we know, that Trump's false story wasn't an obstruction of justice, rather Barr makes that conclusion. Not Mueller.

But let me ask all our Trumpists and Trump apologists on here: Did Trump tell the truth about trying to do a deal in Moscow during the campaign, deep into the campaign? Or did he instead hide that fact? Not a crime to lie to the American people, so no indictment. But just peachy keen as far you're concerned?
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by youthathletics »

Nigel wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:17 pm Classic - "Let It Go"

Helluva pull Nigel. Great flick.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.
Appreciate the correction.

I'd bet old salt knew that I was doing that----so thank you for politely letting it go, old salt.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by ggait »

"The three we were aware of SDNY, DC, EDVA and a 4th new possibility Los Angeles. Have no idea what they are working on in Los Angeles or if it is even true."

LA, if true, might be about Elliott Broidy.
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

a fan wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:57 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.
Appreciate the correction.

I'd bet old salt knew that I was doing that----so thank you for politely letting it go, old salt.
Who would have ever imagined that we'd all be bandying about so many Russian or Eastern European names when talking about American politics and foreign policy... in 2019?...maybe back in the Soviet days we knew the names of a few leaders, sort of one at a time; Breshnev, Andropov, Gorbachev, Yeltsin...But I don't recall ever having known more than maybe the one leader at a time and their deceased predecessors...you'd have to be a State or Intel type to know more than one or two.

Nowadays everyone (or at least all the Trump cronies :) ) knows a whole slew of Russkies.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by jhu72 »

ggait wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:09 pm "The three we were aware of SDNY, DC, EDVA and a 4th new possibility Los Angeles. Have no idea what they are working on in Los Angeles or if it is even true."

LA, if true, might be about Elliott Broidy.
Makes sense. He lives in Bel Air.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by wahoomurf »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 5:40 pm
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:02 pm Conspiracy charge a whisker away from being true ? If there's no whiskers, there's no beard.

Maybe Butina was a freelancing wannabe, like Stone, Manafort & Gates, all trying to get in on the action of a Trump candidacy or Presidency
Riiiiiight. Just a small town Russian girl, meeting with the staff of the Republican nominee for President. Looking for a summer internship.

Come on.
old salt wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 3:02 pm We're not in what if territory anymore. Mueller's done & no more indictments. Let it go.
If you want to hang your hat on "that's not illegal", we'll have nothing to discuss here at the new Water Cooler.

If Butina gave them something, that's it. Game over. Trumps toadies are lucky she didn't.
You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.

Maria Butina penetrated the NRA. :shock: ..we don't know how far she got, but the $30mm of mystery money that flowed is an outstanding question, at least for the public. Apparently Mueller didn't find that Trump directly conspired in that act. Did he follow that trail or is that one of the ongoing investigations he handed off?

Natalia Veselnitskaya is the Russian lawyer-agent at the Trump Tower meeting with Trump's namesake, his campaign manager and his son in law. Though we know publicly that Don Jr expressed enthusiasm about receiving Russian intel damaging to HRC from her, and that Trump concocted a false cover story for the press, apparently Mueller couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump or these knuckleheads (son, son in law, campaign manager) actually conspired with the Russians. (they just were open to it, didn't report the interaction to the FBI even after the FBI warned them that the Russians were making efforts to penetrate the campaign). But prove conspiracy beyond any doubt? Apparently not.

The BS above about everyone cooperating is simply false. Manafort claimed to be cooperating, but did not. Continued to lie and witness tamper. Trump continued to dangle pardon and I'd bet my bottom dollar that's going to come. Son and son in law, no cooperation. Yes, assistant Campaign Manager, Gates, cooperated, but he wasn't in the meeting. Flynn cooperated, but he wasn't in the meeting. So, if you don't have the hard proof, you don't indict.

Note that Mueller does NOT conclude, far as we know, that Trump's false story wasn't an obstruction of justice, rather Barr makes that conclusion. Not Mueller.

But let me ask all our Trumpists and Trump apologists on here: Did Trump tell the truth about trying to do a deal in Moscow during the campaign, deep into the campaign? Or did he instead hide that fact? Not a crime to lie to the American people, so no indictment. But just peachy keen as far you're concerned?
Wonder if that disgrace to his uniform,Jolly Ollie or any of his associates penetrated, Ms.BUTINA? After all turnabout is fair play.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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laxman3221 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm Image
😂😂
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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CU88 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:30 pm
laxman3221 wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:45 pm Image
Ha, I love posts like these from people, who have no clue that we dont know what the report says.
A nothing burger.


funny coming from one of the roosian cooooooollllllllluuuuusssssiiioon believers.
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jhu72
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by jhu72 »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:10 pm
a fan wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:57 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.
Appreciate the correction.

I'd bet old salt knew that I was doing that----so thank you for politely letting it go, old salt.
Who would have ever imagined that we'd all be bandying about so many Russian or Eastern European names when talking about American politics and foreign policy... in 2019?...maybe back in the Soviet days we knew the names of a few leaders, sort of one at a time; Breshnev, Andropov, Gorbachev, Yeltsin...But I don't recall ever having known more than maybe the one leader at a time and their deceased predecessors...you'd have to be a State or Intel type to know more than one or two.

Nowadays everyone (or at least all the Trump cronies :) ) knows a whole slew of Russkies. Even if they can't find it on a map. :lol:
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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laxman3221 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm Image
Except for those dozens of state sponsored Russians Mueller indicted at a bare minimum who were trying to influence the election. Probably lots more.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by old salt »

a fan wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:57 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:33 pm You guys are mixing up your Russian gals.
Appreciate the correction.

I'd bet old salt knew that I was doing that----so thank you for politely letting it go, old salt.
You're welcome, but now I'm confused. In your original post were you referring to Butina the NRA lady, or Natalia the lawyer lady & Fusion GPS client?

I thought you were referring to the NRA lady. If Natalia lawyer lady had given them anything other than the adoptions for sanctions jive, it would possibly have been from her meeting with Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS the day before.
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holmes435
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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I like that some Republicans are calling for an investigation into the investigation.

Republicans creating an investigation investigating a Republican investigator appointed by a Republican to look into a Republican campaign because the Republican president did a lot of stupid stuff out in the open. An investigation that happened to catch a bunch of crooks in the Trump organization and conclusively show Russia was trying to affect our election.

You can't make this stuff up.

They can't let it go either.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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old salt wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:17 pm If Natalia lawyer lady had given them anything other than the adoptions for sanctions jive, it would possibly have been from her meeting with Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS the day before.
I was talking about the hotel meeting. Whichever lady that was. Apologies for the mixup.
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by laxman3221 »

holmes435 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:11 pm
laxman3221 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:51 pm Image
Except for those dozens of state sponsored Russians Mueller indicted at a bare minimum who were trying to influence the election. Probably lots more.
Those facebook ads did it. :lol:
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

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THREE TIMES WILLIAM BARR SAID TRADING PARDONS FOR FALSE TESTIMONY WAS OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE

I think jhu's prediction will hold up...

Barr's own words:

"Obviously, the President and any other official can commit obstruction in this classic sense of sabotaging a proceeding’s truth-finding function. Thus, for example, if a President knowingly destroys or alters evidence, suborns perjury, or induces a witness to change testimony, or commits any act deliberately impairing the integrity or availability of evidence, then he, like anyone else, commits the crime of obstruction."

The Don Trump Era : One Big Con

..
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Re: The Mueller Investigation

Post by holmes435 »

laxman3221 wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:38 pmThose facebook ads did it. :lol:
Unfortunately a lot of idiots out there believe Facebook posts and ads. Just look at the antivaxx movement. People are literally dying because of facebook ads and posts.
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