How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball

[palaxoff]

So we are starting to get into Fall Ball, anyone see some games and have an opinion? I have heard mostly positive things from a few people. The 20 second clear part of the 80 seconds seems to be the main gripe of officials doing games, a bit more clock watching. Also some complaints about clock operators missing the set/ reset signal where they had student operators.

[laxpert]

What mechanics are being used by officials for the shot timer? Is it shared between all three? The first 20 seconds is a busy time between subs, checking for offsides along with standard enforcement of the rules. It’s also my understanding that teams can go over and back during the 20 second clear so the timer can still be a factor after the ball crosses midfield.

Do the officials always signal a reset or is the onus on the shot timer operator? Competent operators shouldn't be an issue at big budget programs where they could enlist ex officials or a seasoned lacrosse statistician but as we go down the food chain it could be an issue with nervous novice at the switch.


Sorry I had to use shot timer instead of shot clock because I couldn't get rid of the clock symbol

[palaxoff]

What mechanics are being used by officials for the shot timer? Is it shared between all three? The first 20 seconds is a busy time between subs, checking for offsides along with standard enforcement of the rules. It’s also my understanding that teams can go over and back during the 20 second clear so the timer can still be a factor after the ball crosses midfield.

Refs no longer have timers on them. They use the shot clock. So guessing far side and trail officials need to keep eye on shot clock. Yes players can cross and go back over midfield line in first 20 seconds.

[palaxoff]

All the whining about the new rules before the Fall, and not a word afterwards, interesting .

[DMac]

Actually, I don't think there was all that much whining once the committee realized how idiotic the initial decision with the shot clock was and changed it to what it is now. Losing 10-15 seconds of possession time by crossing the mid field line would have had teams playing the game backwards and slowing things down, that's where I think most of the "whining" was coming from. Couple that with the fact that many haven't seen any fall ball and it's not all that surprising there hasn't been all that much chatter about it.

[Henpecked]

Two things I will note after watching exactly 2 1/2 games in Philly this weekend.

One, the shot clock is great. The teams are mostly falling back on the ride and tightening up the available space for passes at midfield. I thought that the offense might drop off as a result of bad shots, but I didn't see too many forced shots at all. The teams were getting to business quickly on offense and subbing in quickly too. I did notice a bit more midfield scrums and the ball seemed to be on the ground a little more than usual. But in my opinion, the shot clock is a big plus for the pace of the game.

Two, the dive rule is interesting. I saw five players dive into the crease without scoring. It's great if you score, but if you don't (as was the case this weekend) it is a turnover. Think twice before diving...or get better at it.

On a side note, at the Headstrong event the shot clock was manned by players who were injured or not suited up. And none of them seemed to have a problem with handling the responsibility. Seemed easy. So that's good.

[xxxxxxx]

I was at Penn yesterday and saw several team play including Syracuse, Delaware, Robert Morris, Lafayette, and Penn. I have a hard time saying this as a constant critic of the rules committee but, I think they got this one right.

The pace of play was excellent, and it did not seem forced, they had plenty of time to shoot. One thing to watch is the 20 seconds to clear, if you make a few passes behind the cage while guys sub, you can get caught. Overall I thought it was excellent, and I certainly won't miss fans yelling for a shot clock every time someone holds the ball for more than thirty seconds. It makes the refs job easier and takes some pressure off the face off.

Regarding the dive, I only recall seeing two, neither scored and the result was, in the crease call and turnover. I believe that you must be very gifted athletically to pull it off, like Doug Knight. If it was easy back then many others would have done it. I see it being used sparingly at the end of shot clocks when teams are down.

[dense]

Told a goalie was banged up by a dive. Recovered after being down several minutes. Reintroducing the dive was stupid and is going to cause some unnecessary injuries. Hopefully it is banished again before regular season starts. Game does not need it , there is artistry to maintaining your feet around the crease.

80 seconds shot clock has worked out well and no reason to believe that will change.

[laxpert]

I’ve heard that part of the justification of reinstating the dive was to discourage zone defenses, particularly the two shorts down low zone. I could see a change from the current one minute non releasable penalty for making contact with the goalie to something more punitive if goalie safety becomes an issue.
Favorite aspect of the shot clock is the elimination of the specious shot followed by the
o middies trotting one at a time to midfield to sub out.

[xxxxxxx]

I was at the Colgate/Delaware scrimmage and really watched the clock situation. It is going to take a few games to get used to it. As someone mentioned on the Hop thread it becomes sort of a fire drill at 25 seconds. The defense gets more aggressive and players on offense start to press. It creates much more drama, every posession feels like it's late in a game or OT. Teams also seemed to sub much more quickly, creating an urgency to it that did not exist in the past. The 20 seconds to clear the ball is also very exciting, if a team makes a few passes behind the goal you get to ten seconds before you realize and then teams get aggressive both riding and clearing. I think at least early on you will see more problems clearing than in the past.

Overall I like it, it takes some pressure off the face offs because you can't run three or four minute posessions. I think you will also see save percentages go up with ill advised outside shots at the end of time, and clearing percentage go down.

Curious as to what others think, and good luck to all this season!

[molo]

I like the idea of speeding up the game and am pretty indifferent to the dive. Should be an interesting season.

[DocBarrister]

I was at the Colgate/Delaware scrimmage and really watched the clock situation. It is going to take a few games to get used to it. As someone mentioned on the Hop thread it becomes sort of a fire drill at 25 seconds. The defense gets more aggressive and players on offense start to press. It creates much more drama, every posession feels like it's late in a game or OT. Teams also seemed to sub much more quickly, creating an urgency to it that did not exist in the past. The 20 seconds to clear the ball is also very exciting, if a team makes a few passes behind the goal you get to ten seconds before you realize and then teams get aggressive both riding and clearing. I think at least early on you will see more problems clearing than in the past.

Overall I like it, it takes some pressure off the face offs because you can't run three or four minute posessions. I think you will also see save percentages go up with ill advised outside shots at the end of time, and clearing percentage go down.

Curious as to what others think, and good luck to all this season!

Thanks. Good analysis. I opposed a shot clock and still do, but I’m working to keep an open mind until I see the new rules in game action.

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

I was at the Colgate/Delaware scrimmage and really watched the clock situation. It is going to take a few games to get used to it. As someone mentioned on the Hop thread it becomes sort of a fire drill at 25 seconds. The defense gets more aggressive and players on offense start to press. It creates much more drama, every posession feels like it's late in a game or OT. Teams also seemed to sub much more quickly, creating an urgency to it that did not exist in the past. The 20 seconds to clear the ball is also very exciting, if a team makes a few passes behind the goal you get to ten seconds before you realize and then teams get aggressive both riding and clearing. I think at least early on you will see more problems clearing than in the past.

Overall I like it, it takes some pressure off the face offs because you can't run three or four minute posessions. I think you will also see save percentages go up with ill advised outside shots at the end of time, and clearing percentage go down.

Curious as to what others think, and good luck to all this season!

Sloppy lacrosse imposed by a rule change. It's going to be really ugly in many D3 games.

[youthathletics]

Sloppy, yes, and that is likely the intended outcome. Since the ball no longer hits the floor like in years long lost b/c the ball seldom is checked out of a deep pocket and narrow throat, the game had to get modified to balance the scales. And as the era of stick changes evolved, coaches learned how to milk the clock as needed, so the stall was added, then that became an issue due in part to officiating discretion....so here we are.

I am for the clock, b/c the players play the game and forces the coaches hand at losing some of their control. Hopefully, all will balance out by mid year for each team and we will witness something we all will enjoy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Sloppy, yes, and that is likely the intended outcome. Since the ball no longer hits the floor like in years long lost b/c the ball seldom is checked out of a deep pocket and narrow throat, the game had to get modified to balance the scales. And as the era of stick changes evolved, coaches learned how to milk the clock as needed, so the stall was added, then that became an issue due in part to officiating discretion....so here we are.

I am for the clock, b/c the players play the game and forces the coaches hand at losing some of their control. Hopefully, all will balance out by mid year for each team and we will witness something we all will enjoy.

Fix the sticks then...... (i.e. mandate a shallower pocket).... I don't like trying to manufacture a style of play. I like the way UVA plays basketball and also how UNC likes to get up and down.... The game was "sloppier" because of the skill required to have a great stick....versus rushing a possession to get a shot off, no matter how bad it is....... Time will tell..... The NFL should force everyone to play like the Chiefs..... it is fun to watch.

[seriously?]

Fix the sticks then...... (i.e. mandate a shallower pocket).... I don't like trying to manufacture a style of play.

For the love of Mike, can we just deal with what we have and NOT change something else for a couple of years?

Manufactured style of play. What fast and accurate? There are a ton a excellent players out there. Now they have to step up and stop whining about the rules.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Fix the sticks then...... (i.e. mandate a shallower pocket).... I don't like trying to manufacture a style of play.

For the love of Mike, can we just deal with what we have and NOT change something else for a couple of years?

Manufactured style of play. What fast and accurate? There are a ton a excellent players out there. Now they have to step up and stop whining about the rules.

I don't recall reading about players whining about rules. Seemed as though it was "fans" sitting in the seats that whined the most.

[palaxoff]

I hear one of the concerns is the scoring in D3, There are some really loop sided games, what are the coaches going to do to pull back when they can no longer let the air out of the clock. tell the 3rd and 4th mid line and attack not to go hard, shoot to miss.

While I don't like blow outs and would hate to see 39 -2 as a box score. I think ist kind of unfair to ask the 3rd and 4th lines to pull their shots, or roll the ball to the corner. These kids put their time in at practice, the weight room, and when they get an opportunity to play in front of fans and parents they should be able to show their skills.

[bearlaxfan]

Can we just give this a couple of years, please? We're 2 days away from the first real game. Let's let the coaches coach and the players play, and the stick manufacturers have a few years of consistency to engineer around the current rules- then the rules can be changed again to try to make everyone the '89 Syracuse team.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Can we just give this a couple of years, please? We're 2 days away from the first real game. Let's let the coaches coach and the players play, and the stick manufacturers have a few years of consistency to engineer around the current rules- then the rules can be changed again to try to make everyone the '89 Syracuse team.

I agree about the rules. As for the manufacturers, regulating pocket depth would shift the burden to the mesh makers.... the molds for the heads would not have to be changed and would not require more invested capital.