*POWER* Conferences

[DeepPocket]

With fall ball winding down, I’ve been consuming more and more college basketball (DI) as that season is about to commence. And much of those discussions center around power 6 (p5 + Big East) conferences, right down to rating the OOC schedule of others based on the inclusion of power conference schools scheduled.

I thought it would be a decent conversation/debate applying the same thought process to DIII lacrosse. I think we could all agree that the NESCAC & Liberty would be “power conferences.” From there it could get interesting though. What would be the thresholds? 3 or more top 20 teams? 3 or more teams that a reasonable person would pencil in for top 20 pre-season each and every year?

I would say DIII lacrosse has a “power 2,” with NESCAC and Liberty. I also would say that the Centennial would just miss in my mind (namely due to the more recent emergence of some of their lesser ranked teams).

With all the great lacrosse minds here, there has to be some other thoughts on it.

[Laxattackjack]

Based on your signature, wouldn’t the “SEC of D3” qualify? Just kidding.

I think beyond the two mentioned, most other conferences will have 1-2 strong teams with 3-4 weak teams. Would be tough to call them power conferences.

[Laxaholic123]

The NESCAC and Liberty both have about 11 teams in their conferences. In conferences with that many teams, I would say that those two stand alone.
The CLC has 6 teams that are all pretty competitive teams. However, there are only 2 (sometimes 3) top 20 teams are in the conference. But their ceiling and floor are similar to the other two conferences. Just harder to compare with only 6 teams in the conference.

[DeepPocket]

Based on your signature, wouldn’t the “SEC of D3” qualify? Just kidding.

I think beyond the two mentioned, most other conferences will have 1-2 strong teams with 3-4 weak teams. Would be tough to call them power conferences.

Haha fair. I didn’t think of my signature. It’s been there too long. And I know you know it was done both in reference to split structure and tongue-in-cheek.

But now that you mention it, with the conference halves being viewed as 1, they are most likely the biggest DIII conf membership wise, which likely puts them up there in revenue, and they certainly do combine to have 3 teams that are top 20 fixtures for some time now. Hmmm let the debate rage

[Asgot]

ODAC is pretty solid down to 4 or 5 I think

Hampden-Sydney
Lynchburg
Randolph-Macon
Washington and Lee
Roanoke

[GoTerriers8]

Can't say ODAC without Centennial. IMO both should be in conversation. Aside of RIT and Union, who in Liberty is top?

[DeepPocket]

Can't say ODAC without Centennial. IMO both should be in conversation. Aside of RIT and Union, who in Liberty is top?

I think St Lawrence and RPI. St Lawrence polled as a top 15 the entirety of last year. RPI spent several weeks top 20, both early season and late, therefore IMO relevant throughout.

[GoTerriers8]

Completely agree, forgot about SLaw and didnt know RPI was liberty.

[DeepPocket]

The NESCAC and Liberty both have about 11 teams in their conferences. In conferences with that many teams, I would say that those two stand alone.
The CLC has 6 teams that are all pretty competitive teams. However, there are only 2 (sometimes 3) top 20 teams are in the conference. But their ceiling and floor are similar to the other two conferences. Just harder to compare with only 6 teams in the conference.

CLC is a tough one. 2 of the top 4 teams in all of division III is huge. Who has been a third top 20 for them?

Say Kean and Stockton are the next tier in the CLC. Where would they slot in if they were in other conferences? Stockton beat Eastern, Widener, Arcadia and DeSales (tier 2 MACs). I also like that they’re playing the likes of Swarthmore and Vassar. I think the future is bright for them, and I’d like to see Stockton face Stevenson. I think with both of their current personnels and trajectories that one could get interesting.

[Laxaholic123]

The NESCAC and Liberty both have about 11 teams in their conferences. In conferences with that many teams, I would say that those two stand alone.
The CLC has 6 teams that are all pretty competitive teams. However, there are only 2 (sometimes 3) top 20 teams are in the conference. But their ceiling and floor are similar to the other two conferences. Just harder to compare with only 6 teams in the conference.

CLC is a tough one. 2 of the top 4 teams in all of division III. Who has been a third top 20 for them?

Say Kean and Stockton are the next tier in the CLC. Where would they slot in if they were in other conferences? Stockton beat Eastern, Widener, Arcadia and DeSales (tier 2 MACs). I also like that they’re playing the likes of Swarthmore and Vassar. I think the future is bright for them, and I’d like to see Stockton face Stevenson. I think with both of their current personnels and trajectories that one could get interesting.

I was referring to Stockton who was getting some votes in 2022 and competes with a lot of the top 20 teams on their schedule. Kean has not made that push over the edge yet, they just have loud fans on FanLax that think they will. But Kean was bottom of the conference last year.

[DeepPocket]

I was referring to Stockton who was getting some votes in 2022 and competes with a lot of the top 20 teams on their schedule. Kean has not made that push over the edge yet, they just have loud fans on FanLax that think they will. But Kean was bottom of the conference last year.

Ah, I see. I suppose that speaks to just how “close” anyone is to the top 2. Like everyone else here, I follow DIII and I haven’t concerned myself with who the very bottom of the CLC is. I also can’t help get over the “mental hump” of the CLC in general (so maybe someone with more inside knowledge here can help). Is this conference going to stick around, or is it yet another place holder like the C2C for these teams without a conference? It’s awful far from Newport News VA to Montclair NJ…

[veryoldgoose]

ODAC, Centennial, Liberty, NESCAC are the power conferences in DIII. Back in the day, I would have also included the Empire 8, if that even exists as a conference today.

[laxdad1434]

The NESCAC and Liberty both have about 11 teams in their conferences. In conferences with that many teams, I would say that those two stand alone.
The CLC has 6 teams that are all pretty competitive teams. However, there are only 2 (sometimes 3) top 20 teams are in the conference. But their ceiling and floor are similar to the other two conferences. Just harder to compare with only 6 teams in the conference.

CLC is a tough one. 2 of the top 4 teams in all of division III. Who has been a third top 20 for them?

Say Kean and Stockton are the next tier in the CLC. Where would they slot in if they were in other conferences? Stockton beat Eastern, Widener, Arcadia and DeSales (tier 2 MACs). I also like that they’re playing the likes of Swarthmore and Vassar. I think the future is bright for them, and I’d like to see Stockton face Stevenson. I think with both of their current personnels and trajectories that one could get interesting.

I was referring to Stockton who was getting some votes in 2022 and competes with a lot of the top 20 teams on their schedule. Kean has not made that push over the edge yet, they just have loud fans on FanLax that think they will. But Kean was bottom of the conference last year.

You mean the Kean team that beat Stockton, at Stockton, in the conference semis last season...that Kean?

None of the bottom 4 will be better then the top 2 anytime soon. But, having those teams in the conference adds a lot of cred to these programs and has already helped with recruiting and transfers. Players want to play the best, and CNU/Salisbury are the best. Hopefully the CLC stays intact, and possibly add some teams.

[SixBySix]

I did this analysis back in April, could repeat for the end of season but I'm on vacation without a laptop at the moment. viewtopic.php?p=454017#p454017

4-17 conference matrix.png (145.41 KiB) Viewed 2101 times

Long story short, Hacker seems to have more or less nailed it, at least based on average Laxpower rating. I think this can be tiered into:

"High Major" - average ~90s and 5+ teams over 90
-NESCAC
-Liberty
-Centennial

"Mid Major" - average ~80s and 4+ teams over 83
-C2C
-NEWMAC
-MAC-C
-CCC
-ODAC
-NCAC

"Low Major" - average ~low 80s
-MAC-F
-Empire 8
-SAA
-Landmark
-SUNYAC

Obviously fairly arbitrary cut-offs, and I could absolutely see arguments that in the longer-term a couple conferences should be bumped up a category, but I think this aligns fairly well with my gestalt as a long-time D3 fan.

Other takeaways:
- Liberty and Centennial are essentially indistinguishable--only real difference is McDaniel dragging down the average a touch. #1-#8 are remarkably similar
- There's Tufts, Amherst, and then a little extra depth in #4-#8 that puts the NESCAC comfortably ahead of the Liberty/Centennial
- The ODAC top 4 are an appreciable step behind the big dogs, and the bottom of the conference will always keep their average in the "mid-major" range of D3 lacrosse conferences
- I would have to go back and double check, but I believe this is a relatively good showing for the NEWMAC, in terms of overall average and depth compared to the big conferences

[DeepPocket]

I did this analysis back in April, could repeat for the end of season but I'm on vacation without a laptop at the moment. viewtopic.php?p=454017#p454017

Yes I remember this. Perhaps when you get back an update is in order. It would be greatly appreciated. It appears that the CLC might be missing a team that could drag them down a bit.

Thanks again for your efforts.

[Asgot]

I did this analysis back in April, could repeat for the end of season but I'm on vacation without a laptop at the moment. viewtopic.php?p=454017#p454017

Yes I remember this. Perhaps when you get back an update is in order. It would be greatly appreciated. It appears that the CLC might be missing a team that could drag them down a bit.

Thanks again for your efforts.

They are probably missing Kean.
NESCAC is probably the top Liberty league is good and then Maybe Centennial and ODAC

[Laxaholic123]

You mean the Kean team that beat Stockton, at Stockton, in the conference semis last season...that Kean?

None of the bottom 4 will be better then the top 2 anytime soon. But, having those teams in the conference adds a lot of cred to these programs and has already helped with recruiting and transfers. Players want to play the best, and CNU/Salisbury are the best. Hopefully the CLC stays intact, and possibly add some teams.

Yes, regular season Kean lost every conference game which put them at the bottom of the table. But I absolutely agree that I hope the conference sticks around, and I agree I would love to see a SMCM type of school join the conference, unlikely but it would help renew some rivalries.

[laxdad1434]

You mean the Kean team that beat Stockton, at Stockton, in the conference semis last season...that Kean?

None of the bottom 4 will be better then the top 2 anytime soon. But, having those teams in the conference adds a lot of cred to these programs and has already helped with recruiting and transfers. Players want to play the best, and CNU/Salisbury are the best. Hopefully the CLC stays intact, and possibly add some teams.

Yes, regular season Kean lost every conference game which put them at the bottom of the table. But I absolutely agree that I hope the conference sticks around, and I agree I would love to see a SMCM type of school join the conference, unlikely but it would help renew some rivalries.

Looks like Salisbury is the missing team. CLC has 2 teams in the conference with 90+ rating, CNU/Salisbury. The actual conference power rating is 89.95.

[Laxdds]

As an alumni and fan of the Centennial Conference (although it wasn't the Centennial back in my Day but included Gettysburg, F&M, Dickinson, Muhlenberg and McDaniel) I certainly think the CC is a Power Conference...However, can you be considered a Power Conference having never won a national championship and only putting one of those teams, Gettysburg, in the championship game 3 times? I'm not counting the glory years of Washington, although we played them they weren't in the conference.

[D3LaxFan2]

As an alumni and fan of the Centennial Conference (although it wasn't the Centennial back in my Day but included Gettysburg, F&M, Dickinson, Muhlenberg and McDaniel) I certainly think the CC is a Power Conference...However, can you be considered a Power Conference having never won a national championship and only putting one of those teams, Gettysburg, in the championship game 3 times? I'm not counting the glory years of Washington, although we played them they weren't in the conference.

Why would you not count Washington College? They are in the Centennial Conference.