Izzy Scane vs. Charlotte North debate

[timber18888]

I'm pretty new to the women's lacrosse fanbase, so I'm surprised that there hasn't been much discussion on this considering that Scane and North are two of the best attackers in the last few years.

I'm curious to know: if Scane passes North's all-time goals record next season (she needs to score 70 more goals to do so, which seems doable considering that she had 90+ in the last two seasons), will she pass North in the hypothetical rankings for women's lacrosse players all[time? What if she wins a Tewarraton/back-to-back nattys? Where does she stand compared to North right now? Lacrosse experts, please enlighten me.

I'm anticipating some "Don't pit two great players against each other" comments, but that's what makes sports fun, right?

[NULax2]

I'm pretty new to the women's lacrosse fanbase, so I'm surprised that there hasn't been much discussion on this considering that Scane and North are two of the best attackers in this generation.

I'm curious to know: if Scane passes North's all-time goals record next season (she needs to score 70 more goals to do so, which seems doable considering that she had 90+ in the last two seasons), will she pass North in the GOAT rankings? What if she wins a Tewarraton/back-to-back nattys? Where does she stand compared to North right now? Lacrosse experts, please enlighten me.

I'm anticipating some "Don't pit two great players against each other" comments, but that's what makes sports fun, right?

That's a tough question. Maybe neither. A generation is usually considered at least 20 yrs.
Izzy and Charlotte are the most dominant players in the last 5 years. Maybe better to revisit this question after Izzy is done playing.

But, Taylor Cummings won 3 tewaaratons, multiple players have won 2 tewaaratons (Charlotte, Katie Schwarzmann, Hannah Nielsen & Kristen Kjellman)

Hannah Nielsen won a National Championship every year as a player (4) and has the best team record with 85 wins, 3 losses in 4 yrs. with 2 perfect seasons.

Hannah has my vote for GOAT.

[LaxDadMax]

They are very different types of players. To use another sport analogy, think Kobe vs. Jordan.

In addition to scoring, North was outstanding on the draw (the most important part of the game) resulting in alot of extra possessions for her team.

On the flipside, Scane is much superior on the ride, creating many more CTs than North and just a better athlete.

North is much more of a power shooter, excelling on free position or just dodging and firing from the 8. Scane is much more crafty and better at weaving through traffic and shooting from various angles.

On the balance, North was probaly a more impactful player at the college level.

However, in Scane's defense, she has more talented around her than North ever did. Would be interesting to see how Scane would have done on a team without Coykendall, Rhatigan, Taylor and Amonte.

However, the biggest difference between the two is personality. North is gregarious, outgoing and has done a ton to grow the sport and get more girls involved. Scane came to NW painfully shy. And while she has opened up a bit the past two years, she is still very uncomfortable in the spotlight and doesn't really have a desire to be the "face of the sport"

[njbill]

Two very good attackers to be sure. The best two in the last few years.

But GOAT? No. Maybe in the discussion. Those in the very top group include Adams, Dowd, Tumolo, Treanor, and Apuzzo. I’m probably missing a couple. Arguably Scane and North fit somewhere in there, but for my money, neither is number one. I never saw Adams, but many rank her as the best. Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Edit: My understanding is we are talking attackers here, not all players. Cummings was a middie. If we are talking all players, she gets my vote for best player of all time.

[timber18888]

Two very good attackers to be sure. The best two in the last few years.

But GOAT? No. Maybe in the discussion. Those in the very top group include Adams, Dowd, Tumolo, Treanor, and Apuzzo. I’m probably missing a couple. Arguably Scane and North fit somewhere in there, but for my money, neither is number one. I never saw Adams, but many rank her as the best. Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Edit: My understanding is we are talking attackers here, not all players. Cummings was a middie. If we are talking all players, she gets my vote for best player of all time.

My bad. When I said "GOAT" I meant, if there was a hypothetical list that ranked the best women's lacrosse players of all time, would Scane be ranked higher than North or vice versa? I understand that there were players that are better than both of them.

[timber18888]

I'm pretty new to the women's lacrosse fanbase, so I'm surprised that there hasn't been much discussion on this considering that Scane and North are two of the best attackers in this generation.

I'm curious to know: if Scane passes North's all-time goals record next season (she needs to score 70 more goals to do so, which seems doable considering that she had 90+ in the last two seasons), will she pass North in the GOAT rankings? What if she wins a Tewarraton/back-to-back nattys? Where does she stand compared to North right now? Lacrosse experts, please enlighten me.

I'm anticipating some "Don't pit two great players against each other" comments, but that's what makes sports fun, right?

That's a tough question. Maybe neither. A generation is usually considered at least 20 yrs.
Izzy and Charlotte are the most dominant players in the last 5 years. Maybe better to revisit this question after Izzy is done playing.

But, Taylor Cummings won 3 tewaaratons, multiple players have won 2 tewaaratons (Charlotte, Katie Schwarzmann, Hannah Nielsen & Kristen Kjellman)

Hannah Nielsen won a National Championship every year as a player (4) and has the best team record with 85 wins, 3 losses in 4 yrs. with 2 perfect seasons.

Hannah has my vote for GOAT.

Yeah I should have worded my question a bit better. I mainly just wanted to see where Scane was compared to North.

[timber18888]

They are very different types of players. To use another sport analogy, think Kobe vs. Jordan.

In addition to scoring, North was outstanding on the draw (the most important part of the game) resulting in alot of extra possessions for her team.

On the flipside, Scane is much superior on the ride, creating many more CTs than North and just a better athlete.

North is much more of a power shooter, excelling on free position or just dodging and firing from the 8. Scane is much more crafty and better at weaving through traffic and shooting from various angles.

On the balance, North was probaly a more impactful player at the college level.

However, in Scane's defense, she has more talented around her than North ever did. Would be interesting to see how Scane would have done on a team without Coykendall, Rhatigan, Taylor and Amonte.

However, the biggest difference between the two is personality. North is gregarious, outgoing and has done a ton to grow the sport and get more girls involved. Scane came to NW painfully shy. And while she has opened up a bit the past two years, she is still very uncomfortable in the spotlight and doesn't really have a desire to be the "face of the sport"

Very insightful—thank you!

[8meterPA]

Two very good attackers to be sure. The best two in the last few years.

But GOAT? No. Maybe in the discussion. Those in the very top group include Adams, Dowd, Tumolo, Treanor, and Apuzzo. I’m probably missing a couple. Arguably Scane and North fit somewhere in there, but for my money, neither is number one. I never saw Adams, but many rank her as the best. Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Edit: My understanding is we are talking attackers here, not all players. Cummings was a middie. If we are talking all players, she gets my vote for best player of all time.

nj - you're missing the great one - JO - from your list!!

[DMac]

Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Cuse fan aside, I would agree with this.
See World Games 2022. Incredible exhibition.

[Kleizaster]

Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Cuse fan aside, I would agree with this.
See World Games 2022. Incredible exhibition.

100% this. Treanor was and still is the the most talented lacrosse player i've ever seen. Her overall stick skills, quickness and power were a deadly combination. Scane and North probably have more shot power. But in terms of everything else, lax IQ, vision, treanor wipes the floor with them and it's not even close imo.

I do think North was better than Scane only because her shot was so legendary and the greatest the game has ever seen that it elevates her above Scane in other wise a dead even debate.

best players of the last 15 years.

1. Treanor
2. Cummings
3. McCool
4. Apuzzo
5. North
6. Scane
7. Ortega
8. Mastroianni

if we go beyond 20 years then it gets interesting and most people on this list will move down 4 or 5 spots except for Treanor and Cummings who will remain top 5

[LaxDadMax]

Of those I’ve seen, I would say Treanor. She is more creative, more powerful (yes, more powerful), and has a better stick than Scane or North.

Cuse fan aside, I would agree with this.
See World Games 2022. Incredible exhibition.

100% this. Treanor was and still is the the most talented lacrosse player i've ever seen. Her overall stick skills, quickness and power were a deadly combination. Scane and North probably have more shot power. But in terms of everything else, lax IQ, vision, treanor wipes the floor with them and it's not even close imo.

I do think North was better than Scane only because her shot was so legendary and the greatest the game has ever seen that it elevates her above Scane in other wise a dead even debate.

best players of the last 15 years.

1. Treanor
2. Cummings
3. McCool
4. Apuzzo
5. North
6. Scane
7. Ortega
8. Mastroianni

if we go beyond 20 years then it gets interesting and most people on this list will move down 4 or 5 spots except for Treanor and Cummings who will remain top 5

I'm sure the game will change much in the next 10 years as it has the last 10 years.

Reality is that with the almost complete lack of two-way players on top squads, it recently isn't possible to compete/compare against 2-way players of the past. But I guess that is what message boards are for.

Similar for defenders with the growth of zone and hybrid defenses. 10 years from now, barring a major rules change, will a single top 15 team play predominantly man vs. man defense?

[watcherinthewoods]

I am chuckling about this ... I had 4 5YOs for "clinic" last night. One little girl mastered a respectable cradle left and right, can catch and throw with some accuracy, and instinctually RUNS through ground balls at full speed.

She is 5. This is a significant change in the sport, certainly since I picked up a stick in 8th grade and my daughter picked up a stick in 3rd grade. With proper coaching and hard work, what can she become?

(I am not commenting or judging on the decision to send pre-kindergartners to clinic)

[DMac]

My biggest question is, she (my daughter) picked up a stick in 3rd grade???
This is my middle one days old (and I hung that over his face so it was the
first thing he saw every time he opened his eyes). Sounds like that little one
has a lot of natural ability, just let her play and have fun, odds are she'll fall
in love with that stick and won't want to put it down (that's how it was with
my middle one...had crazy natural ability. Hanging the stick worked.

[njbill]

10 years from now, barring a major rules change, will a single top 15 team play predominantly man vs. man defense?

You have given yourself an out by saying predominantly, but I think there will always be a place for man. Man defense is played in all sports. In any sport, if you have the personnel, you play, or can play, man.

My view is that it is tougher to beat an excellent man defense than an excellent zone defense. There are always holes in even the best zone defenses. Not so with the best man defenses.

[Dr. Tact]

Hannah has my vote for GOAT.

Ummm JA is probably the GOAT.

[NULax2]

Hannah has my vote for GOAT.

Ummm JA is probably the GOAT.

Original poster said "generational player" for me that means last 20 yrs. JA is just outside of 20 yrs.

If we're talking last 25 yrs, JA probably beats Hannah by a whisker.

[MDlaxfan76]

My biggest question is, she (my daughter) picked up a stick in 3rd grade???
This is my middle one days old (and I hung that over his face so it was the
first thing he saw every time he opened his eyes). Sounds like that little one
has a lot of natural ability, just let her play and have fun, odds are she'll fall
in love with that stick and won't want to put it down (that's how it was with
my middle one...had crazy natural ability. Hanging the stick worked.

When my son was born, my dad (3X AA goalie) came in and looked at the baby. He said to my wife, who had suffered since freshman year of college as the girlfriend of a goalie, "his eyes are going back and forth, he's going to go both ways"...She didn't miss a beat, and said, "As long as he's not a goaltender"... no tougher gig than mother of a goalie... Our defenseman son moved into the crease as an 8th grader...same year I'd moved into the crease from center midfield.

I was given a baby stick and it was my son's first present from my dad as well.

Coaching "Clinic" with 5 year olds was quite a trip...herd mentality...but better than coaching baseball with 5 year old dandelion pickers...

[tothedraw]

Katie Schwarzmann Haus will also be on my list of best ever. What a motor and smile on her! Mikaela Rix GC/BC was also a complete player in my eyes.TC is my GOAT because of her ability at the draw and defense as well as scoring.
I've been part of intro clinics for pre k kids(3/4).It's a riot, herding cats with sticks. Not creating All American's by any means just a love for lacrosse- there are a lot of water breaks a treat at the end and former player grandparents love it.

[wlaxphan20]

Katie Schwarzmann Haus will also be on my list of best ever. What a motor and smile on her! Mikaela Rix GC/BC was also a complete player in my eyes.TC is my GOAT because of her ability at the draw and defense as well as scoring.
I've been part of intro clinics for pre k kids(3/4).It's a riot, herding cats with sticks. Not creating All American's by any means just a love for lacrosse- there are a lot of water breaks a treat at the end and former player grandparents love it.

I loved watching Rix play and it’s a shame her career was limited by injury.

And agree about the young kids haha, the goal is fun - you want them to want to come back.

[njbill]

Agree re Rix.

When she and Covie committed to BC the same year, that more than anything else started BC’s rise up the ranks.