Transfer Portal 2024

[coda]

Zawada to Duke

NC native, good for him.

Will they run him at attack and bump Mcadorey back to middie? Or, is Zawada inserted into the midfield from day one?

Crowded attack room. Zawada, McAdorey, and ONeill can all dodge from up top.

I would assume McAdorey is headed back to middie, there's no other real path that make sense. Dyson Williams tried running out of the box, it doesn't work and clearly your not moving O'Neil. Zawada at middie seems like a bride to far but maybe Duke gives it a shot.

His coach did just use him at middie in the World games with success (different team). He could be thinking about trying that this year. There are a lot of possibilities there. They always have lots of talent, offense got stagnant at times last year and ball movement was the usual suspect. They are going to have to figure that out, to get the most out of that talent. You have Slusher, Zawaada, Williams, McAdorey, and ONeill. They also took a Amherst Attackman out of the portal.

[MDlaxfan76]

Damn, so much hostility towards Rutgers simply for trying a different strategy, you'd think they killed HopFan16's kid or something.

Can't we all get along? 1766, respect the loyalty but can we not stoke the fire?

Facts aren't stoking the fire.

But agree. Guy sounds like Brecht ate his lunches in high school. You'd only care this much if you were associated with the school or you are nervous about losing to them. All in all, a great development!

mmm, seems to me the initial discussion, and most of it subsequently, has been directly on thread topic. Varying levels of usage of transfers to "bolster" rosters, the effectiveness, upside and downsides, of the strategy and specifically what and how various transfers will fit into the programs they're joining, implications for roles of other players, etc.

After all, this is a discussion forum and this is exactly the topic.

It's Rutgers choice to be out on the extreme end of the strategy. Most commentators have suggested that 8 seems pretty darn high as well.

"Facts" are being discussed, sure, but most of this discussion has been various questions and opinions about the implications of various programs and what that may mean for both the transfers and the other players, as well as potential recruits. What kinds of management issues may be present as a result. Potential downsides...

Some commentators place more or less value on what transfers mean for other recruiting and opportunities to play at the program they were recruited to, with various expectations.

They're all fair game opinions.

[richlax5]

Per IL Report. Josh Zawada to Duke for 2024 season.

[Farfromgeneva]

I can understand why someone would be defensive about their school...but the logic of some posters defending this level of transfers lacks credibility. We get it, you support your program.

Trying to put on the hat of an avid Rutgers fan, I think I'd say that I really liked how well Rutgers has been able to compete despite some of the inherent challenges faced in attracting top recruits to Rutgers that most other top contending schools don't face. Doing more with less, scrapping and scraping, competing.

And if I truly cared, I'd say that the new scale of transfers is indeed concerning, as it's really not an experiment that has a track record of success...I'd acknowledge that it's not the same as adding 1-4 known super studs who will definitely find a way to have an impact no matter how strong the team is that they're joining. I might say 'fingers crossed' that it works...

As not such a fan, it seems to me that Rutgers may be a great place to go if you want to play against top talent and feel you were otherwise ignored by the schools that were your preferred choices, all else being equal. If you're right, you'll play; if not, not.

Particularly great if you are from NJ, so in-state. And if you were ignored early, but light it up once in college, an interesting place to transfer to as they clearly are open to such.

That said, as a parent, I'd be telling my kid to go to the best academic school available, play or don't play ball, at whatever level they compete. And if you do play, make your mark there. If you have a medical redshirt or other extra year and can't do it at your original chosen school, then look for the best academic experience for a grad year...

Only reason I'd be happy about to see my kid transfer would be for a better academic experience and/or if there was a miserable athletic experience that could be avoided by doing so. I do understand 'one more opportunity to play', but I'd be pushing to get something academic achieved with that year.

Facts aren't defensive. They are facts. Rutgers has no more "inherent challenges" than a school like Maryland. What are these "inherent challenges" you speak of? The Rodkin Center is world class in lacrosse. The team is fully funded and has the highest level of support going up to the President who regularly attends game. The school is top 60 ranked in USNWR bunched with most of it's peers. There is heavy alumni involvement.

Most every school should have these inherent challenges.

mmm, definitely not my impression.

Try this comparison with UMD and Michigan:

Rutgers: https://www.forbes.com/colleges/rutgers ... 0400fe2308

Maryland: https://www.forbes.com/colleges/univers ... 350ab051aa

Michigan: https://www.forbes.com/colleges/univers ... 37b32d3c35

I think Forbes is much better at assessing how these schools are perceived and is much less manipulatable as USNWR.

You could argue that New Brunswick and College Park are similar environments. I'm not a fan of College Park, far from my ideal of college town whether urban, suburban, or rural... but hmmm, the demographics of New Brunswick are not nearly College Park's in terms of median home value, income, etc...

I'm not dismissing that Rutgers has its pluses over a whole heck of a lot of other schools, much less dismissing anything you're saying about commitment to lacrosse, facilities, etc...AND...Rutgers has a strong lax history, deservedly.

I'm just saying there are schools that have advantages relative to Rutgers, so seems like it's reasonable to suggest that it may be harder to recruit at least some of the most desired kids there than to some of their other choices.

But if you're saying there's no difference between the challenges of recruiting a kid to Rutgers than to Maryland (I'd disagree), then by that logic Brecht should have been regularly landing just as many of the most desired HS recruits as Tillman, or at least close...and that's not been happening. And it sure as heck wouldn't be necessary to bring in 11 transfers if there are four full classes of high level recruits already there.

So, it makes more sense to me to applaud the efforts to overcome some greater challenges, by hook or by crook, than it is to deny the challenges...

CP is a true and easy communte to DC, New Brunswick to NYC is not. Thats a fact. Plus no Cluck U Chicken in New Brunswick.

[Farfromgeneva]

Damn, so much hostility towards Rutgers simply for trying a different strategy, you'd think they killed HopFan16's kid or something.

Can't we all get along? 1766, respect the loyalty but can we not stoke the fire?

It's not the program it's the absurd and inance superfan responses and often trashing others when questioning the value or prospects of this strategy that get's people. The petty "oh yeah well look over there" or "oh yeah well you and your school suck" baby stuff that has folks annoyed. A discussion about the strategy should be appropriate without the defensive pettiness, but that's impossible to get here because of a superfan who's full of ish.

[Farfromgeneva]

duke just hammering the portal. recruits cannot be happy.

They may not be.

I'd be more looking at Mich and ND this year however than Duke who takes 2-4 high end transfers each year since Covid opened it up.

[Wheels]

duke just hammering the portal. recruits cannot be happy.

They may not be.

I'd be more looking at Mich and ND this year however than Duke who takes 2-4 high end transfers each year since Covid opened it up.

I get Dino wants to take on as much talent as possible - and the number of 5-star HS recruits on his roster is maybe unsurpassed (maybe UVA?) - but as Dino himself noted after the ND loss, ND forced Duke to play one-handed. Duke also suffered from the lack of a QB on offense. McAdorey isn't a QB. So he brings in another ball dominant and right hand dominant player at attack to balance the ball-dominant left handed O'Neill? If Duke had a Jacob Angelus-type at attack, that offense would be unstoppable.

It's like the season ending loss never happened.

Is Dino like the Swedish Chef at this point just throwing ingredients up in the air? Jake Naso better keep winning 60+% at the face-off.

[Farfromgeneva]

duke just hammering the portal. recruits cannot be happy.

They may not be.

I'd be more looking at Mich and ND this year however than Duke who takes 2-4 high end transfers each year since Covid opened it up.

I get Dino wants to take on as much talent as possible - and the number of 5-star HS recruits on his roster is maybe unsurpassed (maybe UVA?) - but as Dino himself noted after the ND loss, ND forced Duke to play one-handed. Duke also suffered from the lack of a QB on offense. McAdorey isn't a QB. So he brings in another ball dominant and right hand dominant player at attack to balance the ball-dominant left handed O'Neill? If Duke had a Jacob Angelus-type at attack, that offense would be unstoppable.

It's like the season ending loss never happened.

Is Dino like the Swedish Chef at this point just throwing ingredients up in the air? Jake Naso better keep winning 60+% at the face-off.

Yes he is but he’s using world class ingredients, truffles rather than dogs**t. I still am not that impressed w Naso but happen to think Helm and other goalies have been his biggest issue last 3-4yrs notwithstanding Adler.

The way it’s being done at Rutgers by analogy is more like a college aged dude without kitchen training mixing and matching spices and hoping the flavor works out .

[JeremyCuse]

duke just hammering the portal. recruits cannot be happy.

They may not be.

I'd be more looking at Mich and ND this year however than Duke who takes 2-4 high end transfers each year since Covid opened it up.

I get Dino wants to take on as much talent as possible - and the number of 5-star HS recruits on his roster is maybe unsurpassed (maybe UVA?) - but as Dino himself noted after the ND loss, ND forced Duke to play one-handed. Duke also suffered from the lack of a QB on offense. McAdorey isn't a QB. So he brings in another ball dominant and right hand dominant player at attack to balance the ball-dominant left handed O'Neill? If Duke had a Jacob Angelus-type at attack, that offense would be unstoppable.

It's like the season ending loss never happened.

Is Dino like the Swedish Chef at this point just throwing ingredients up in the air? Jake Naso better keep winning 60+% at the face-off.

You make a good point about bringing another ball dominant finisher/dodger versus a QB type attackmen. I know there weren't really a lot available and as good as Zawada is im not sure how (as you noted) adding him helps Duke solve the problems that ND took advantage of. Unless O'Neill is suddenly gonna start passing like Mike Powell it does seem like they added in an area they don't really need more help in. An Angelus/Rehfuss/Steele Stanwick type attackmen is what they really need (as you pointed out).

[Farfromgeneva]

I guess you say that once Mule, McLane and maybe 1 other was committed then nobody else is better than Zawada (Donnelly maybe closeish maybe but he’s a shooter (Princeton kids few others but at this stage).

Suppose its at a point for 4-5 programs like the Yankees/Dodgers before the 1960s in hoarding and keeping talent away from others. Any super duper old timers around here familiar with a guy named Jim Gentile? So if there’s a risk of dilution by addition then you bury one of them to manage that risk/cost but if Zawada is a better let fit for another serious contender and you can take him off the board why not? (Can control costs can’t control revenue synergies in a merger…)

[HopFan16]

Damn, so much hostility towards Rutgers simply for trying a different strategy, you'd think they killed HopFan16's kid or something.

Can't we all get along? 1766, respect the loyalty but can we not stoke the fire?

Hostility? I’m offering some very mild criticism of a strategy that lots of people think is insane, and he simply cannot handle it. This is the transfer thread and Rutgers is adding a historic number of transfers this year, so it’s worthy of discussion.

The proof is in the pudding. If there were real issues you'd see players leaving the program in big numbers. Last year there were 2 transfers, non of note. This year 4. One of note who didn't like his position. Right in line with many peer

Players leaving en masse is not the only evidence of an issue. Losing 5 of the last 6 games and the offense sputtering to a halt when one transfer gets injured because there isn’t anyone behind him on the depth chart who has been developed to a point where they’re ready to contribute…that’s also an issue. Bringing in 12 guys can compound that issue. If you can’t see that then it’s because you’re choosing not to IMO. Which is understandable. I wouldn’t want to see it either.

Melendez and Mazzone helped a ton but another reason Hopkins had a good year was the play of Matt Collison, Brooks English, and Carson Brown — freshmen whose development was not impeded by a dozen transfers. Rutgers didn’t get much at all from their underclassmen last season. Kulas had a good first half and then fell off a cliff down the stretch. The clock is ticking. They needed some juice down the stretch and there wasn’t one underclassman they could turn to. That’s not a problem? Good luck with that moving forward.

[Young Warrior]

Zawada to Duke

NC native, good for him.

Will they run him at attack and bump Mcadorey back to middie? Or, is Zawada inserted into the midfield from day one?

Crowded attack room. Zawada, McAdorey, and ONeill can all dodge from up top.

I would assume McAdorey is headed back to middie, there's no other real path that make sense. Dyson Williams tried running out of the box, it doesn't work and clearly your not moving O'Neil. Zawada at middie seems like a bride to far but maybe Duke gives it a shot.

Doesn’t Slusher play attack?

[Ruffled_Feathers]

CP is a true and easy communte to DC, New Brunswick to NYC is not. Thats a fact. Plus no Cluck U Chicken in New Brunswick.

College Park no longer has Cluck U Chicken (or renamed to Clucksters or whatever) anymore either sadly. Admittedly any place that doesn't have one of these glorious bastions of fried chicken is by all rights a worthless dump.

[Farfromgeneva]

CP is a true and easy communte to DC, New Brunswick to NYC is not. Thats a fact. Plus no Cluck U Chicken in New Brunswick.

College Park no longer has Cluck U Chicken (or renamed to Clucksters or whatever) anymore either sadly. Admittedly any place that doesn't have one of these glorious bastions of fried chicken is by all rights a worthless dump.

It was tasty at 2am indeed.

[molo]

Jim Gentile had a big year when a couple of Yankees were chasing an old Yankee from Baltimore.

[Wheels]

Zawada to Duke

NC native, good for him.

Will they run him at attack and bump Mcadorey back to middie? Or, is Zawada inserted into the midfield from day one?

Crowded attack room. Zawada, McAdorey, and ONeill can all dodge from up top.

I would assume McAdorey is headed back to middie, there's no other real path that make sense. Dyson Williams tried running out of the box, it doesn't work and clearly your not moving O'Neil. Zawada at middie seems like a bride to far but maybe Duke gives it a shot.

Doesn’t Slusher play attack?

I totally forgot about Slusher. A ball dominant lefty. Maybe they run him out of the box because he's not taking O'Neill's spot.

If you like highlights, this coming Duke team is going to provide a lot of highlights. I don't know if they're better constructed to advance past where they did this past May, though.

[1766]

I don't really care about Rutgers, Brecht or how many transfers they sign but I do have a question, How do they do it scholarship wise? I realize a lot of these transfers are only for a year or two and they had a large graduating class but they still have to fit into 12.6 so even if they are all only getting 25% that is 2.75 and that seems like a lot of scholarship left after HS recruiting and what was already on the books.

You can ask that of a number of schools now. NIL has made scholarship limits very arbitrary.

[Farfromgeneva]

Jim Gentile had a big year when a couple of Yankees were chasing an old Yankee from Baltimore.

Won the RBI title, second year in MLB at 29 or 30 because he was buried behind Gil Hodges in the Dodger system.

[Jldlax]

Damn, so much hostility towards Rutgers simply for trying a different strategy, you'd think they killed HopFan16's kid or something.

Can't we all get along? 1766, respect the loyalty but can we not stoke the fire?

Hostility? I’m offering some very mild criticism of a strategy that lots of people think is insane, and he simply cannot handle it. This is the transfer thread and Rutgers is adding a historic number of transfers this year, so it’s worthy of discussion.

The proof is in the pudding. If there were real issues you'd see players leaving the program in big numbers. Last year there were 2 transfers, non of note. This year 4. One of note who didn't like his position. Right in line with many peer

Players leaving en masse is not the only evidence of an issue. Losing 5 of the last 6 games and the offense sputtering to a halt when one transfer gets injured because there isn’t anyone behind him on the depth chart who has been developed to a point where they’re ready to contribute…that’s also an issue. Bringing in 12 guys can compound that issue. If you can’t see that then it’s because you’re choosing not to IMO. Which is understandable. I wouldn’t want to see it either.

Melendez and Mazzone helped a ton but another reason Hopkins had a good year was the play of Matt Collison, Brooks English, and Carson Brown — freshmen whose development was not impeded by a dozen transfers. Rutgers didn’t get much at all from their underclassmen last season. Kulas had a good first half and then fell off a cliff down the stretch. The clock is ticking. They needed some juice down the stretch and there wasn’t one underclassman they could turn to. That’s not a problem? Good luck with that moving forward.

I do not understand the argument vs. Rutgers - yet it is OK for the top teams to use the portal? Duke just picked up a solid grad transfer attackman despite returning the starting attack on the national finalist returning. VA picks up the Tufts A when they have so many 5 star attackmen you can’t keep track. ND has consistently used the portal the past 4 years and would not have won a championship without it. Do we put an asterisk in the record book now?

Rutgers is doing what needs to be done to try to stay competitive in top 3 conference. If the coaches lines up 11 transfers so be it.

[Wheels]

I don't really care about Rutgers, Brecht or how many transfers they sign but I do have a question, How do they do it scholarship wise? I realize a lot of these transfers are only for a year or two and they had a large graduating class but they still have to fit into 12.6 so even if they are all only getting 25% that is 2.75 and that seems like a lot of scholarship left after HS recruiting and what was already on the books.

You can ask that of a number of schools now. NIL has made scholarship limits very arbitrary.

I honestly don't even know what this means.

In-state tuition at RU in 2022-23 was $16k and out-of-state was almost $34k. Room and board is almost $13k. I don't know if Rutgers can count all athletes at the in-state rate or at an UG credit rate for all students (varies by university), but let's assume they can count everyone at the in-state rate and gets charged UG tuition regardless of program. That gives Brecht $201k-ish to spread across his roster for scholarships. Rutgers carried 50 players on the roster last year, so theoretically we're talking about an average of $4k per player (understanding normal distributions and variance across the distribution).

Are you saying that NIL $ for Rutgers lacrosse can offer that much or more per player so that Brecht has more flexibility to load scholarship money in one direction and NIL in another (e.g., Player A gets $8K a year in scholarship, Player B gets $4K in NIL)?

Let's set aside the issue that NIL $ is taxable income and let's also assume that RU's lacrosse boosters/NIL collective can sustainably generate $200K per year to effectively double what Brecht can offer to recruits.

Because I read your statement above and I think you're saying that coaches can use NIL $ in lieu of scholarships for some, which gives them more flexibility to offer more scholarship money to others. Given that coaches cannot directly talk to recruits about NIL and must use the collectives as go-betweens, I wonder in practice how this can work in the fractional scholarship world of non-revenue sports. Does Brecht talk to a player and say "we're offering you a book scholarship of $500," and then the RU Lacrosse Collective reaches out and says "If you commit to RU, you'll get $4k per year in NIL $ if you post some IG content or visit 5 elementary schools in the fall"?

The Ivies and some PL schools operate in a different environment where "athletic scholarships" don't exist (wink-wink for the Ivies) because their endowments allow them to flow "merit" or "need-based" aid to students who also happen to be athletes. Hopkins is probably now in that same environment because of Uncle Mike's Billions. From what I've heard, OSU has the most lucrative $NIL set up in B1G lacrosse, and their AD-funded operational budget is probably also one of the better budgets in the B1G.

ACC schools, because of their TV contracts, probably don't have the same level of AD-funded operational budgets (although a couple of years ago, Terry Foy mentioned that Syracuse lacrosse had the biggest lacrosse budget in the country...but that could have been a mix of donor funds and AD funds in a pre-NIL era).

Most coaches in the ACC and B1G are having to make conscious trade-offs in their own fundraising pitches now: how much to supplement their AD-funded operational budget OR how much to direct donors to NIL collectives.