LaxPower Back-Up Stick

My guess without working numbers is it’s because Princeton did not come in below a 3 on anyone’s ranking while Cornell had three at 4 and one at a 5. At this point I would have put Princeton at two as well, they have better wins…. And loss is to #1. The good news is this will eventually be settled on the field.

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:35 pm I'm not disputing the rankings nor do I think Cornell should be #2 this week. However, the poll lists Princeton as #2 above Cornell, yet Cornell has 8 votes for #2 while Princeton has only 5. Is this result due to others who ranked Cornell much lower?

Each team gets 25 Points for a #1 vote, 24 Points for #2, 23 Points for #3... 1 Point for #25. I put the points earned for P'ton and Cornell below. (I put the three periods after Cornell just so it'd line-up better.)

Princeton 23 23 23 24 24 23 23 24 23 23 24 24 23 = 304
Cornell... 24 24 24 21 22 24 24 23 24 24 22 22 24 = 302

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:37 pm

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 1:35 pm I'm not disputing the rankings nor do I think Cornell should be #2 this week. However, the poll lists Princeton as #2 above Cornell, yet Cornell has 8 votes for #2 while Princeton has only 5. Is this result due to others who ranked Cornell much lower?

Each team gets 25 Points for a #1 vote, 24 Points for #2, 23 Points for #3... 1 Point for #25. I put the points earned for P'ton and Cornell below. (I put the three periods after Cornell just so it'd line-up better.)

Princeton 23 23 23 24 24 23 23 24 23 23 24 24 23 = 304
Cornell... 24 24 24 21 22 24 24 23 24 24 22 22 24 = 302

Thanks! I'm happier with Cornell below Princeton, at least until April 30th at Noon in Princeton, NJ.

Cornell has high quality wins but Princeton with wins over Penn, Georgetown and Rutgers and a tough played loss to Maryland (I know i get slammed for good losses) is a better resume. As said before, this will sort itself out in IVY play. But snapshot in time, Princeton deserves to be higher ranked for now IMO.

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:53 pm Cornell has high quality wins but Princeton with wins over Penn, Georgetown and Rutgers and a tough played loss to Maryland (I know i get slammed for good losses) is a better resume. As said before, this will sort itself out in IVY play. But snapshot in time, Princeton deserves to be higher ranked for now IMO.

P'ton above Cornell, I agree. UVA and G'town, too? That's a tougher one to explain...

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:13 pm

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:53 pm Cornell has high quality wins but Princeton with wins over Penn, Georgetown and Rutgers and a tough played loss to Maryland (I know i get slammed for good losses) is a better resume. As said before, this will sort itself out in IVY play. But snapshot in time, Princeton deserves to be higher ranked for now IMO.

P'ton above Cornell, I agree. UVA and G'town, too? That's a tougher one to explain...

Princeton: Top 5 wins: Gtown /// Top 10 wins: Rutgers, Penn /// Top 20 Wins: 0 /// L to Maryland
Cornell: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top ten wins: Ohio State /// Top 20 Wins: Yale, Lehigh
Georgetown: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: Penn /// Top 20 wins: Notre Dame /// L to Princeton
Virginia: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: UNC /// Top 20 wins: 0 /// L to Maryland

If you are not giving Cornell any extra weight for being undefeated, this is probably the most rational order.

We just had our so called "game of the year" with MARYLAND vs. VIRGINIA, but is it possible we have another on APRIL 30th?

CORNELL vs PRINCETON

Let's hope so.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:32 pm

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:13 pm

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:53 pm Cornell has high quality wins but Princeton with wins over Penn, Georgetown and Rutgers and a tough played loss to Maryland (I know i get slammed for good losses) is a better resume. As said before, this will sort itself out in IVY play. But snapshot in time, Princeton deserves to be higher ranked for now IMO.

P'ton above Cornell, I agree. UVA and G'town, too? That's a tougher one to explain...

Princeton: Top 5 wins: Gtown /// Top 10 wins: Rutgers, Penn /// Top 20 Wins: 0 /// L to Maryland
Cornell: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top ten wins: Ohio State /// Top 20 Wins: Yale, Lehigh
Georgetown: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: Penn /// Top 20 wins: Notre Dame /// L to Princeton
Virginia: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: UNC /// Top 20 wins: 0 /// L to Maryland

If you are not giving Cornell any extra weight for being undefeated, this is probably the most rational order.

Honestly if you want to do it purely statistically and with Zero eye test, why are we even doing this poll?

wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 11:45 am 1 p'ton
2 umd

I also have P'ton over UMD. Head-to-head matters but your Win-Loss resume matters more. And based on their W-L Resume, more specifically, based on Princeton's and Maryland's Three Best Wins and Three Worst Losses, P'ton comes out on top. Based on Two Best Wins/Losses or One Best Win/Loss, MD comes out on top. Based on three... P'ton. Currently, Marylands third best win is vs. Notre Dame and, currently, Notre Dame is not impressive. But, that aside, based on the Forum Poll, these are the three Most Overrated and Most Underrated Teams and why:

Most Overrated
Notre Dame - I get it. They're Notre Dame. Their losses are to good team and close games but... Their three Best Wins are vs. Michigan (who you have at #21), Detroit Mercy, and... They don't have a third win. And you put them at #15?
Navy - You have Navy at #28. They should be closer to #36. Beating JHU is 1 game. Their next two best Ws are vs. Colgate and Hofstra. Not impressive and... They lost to Mt. St. Mary's, Lehigh, and High Point.
Dartmouth - You have them at #27. They should be 7 or so notches lower. Their best W is vs. UVM. And they lost to Merrimack.

Most Underrated
Johns Hopkins - You have JHU at #29. They should be closer to #15. Yes, they lost to Navy, Delaware, and UNC and... They beat Jacksonville, Loyola, and Syracuse, three (at least two) teams that you like. If you like the teams that JHU beats, unless their Ls are awful, which they are not, you gotta like JHU.
Richmond - You have them at #32. They should be closer to #19. They're losses are far from painful (Duke, UNC, G'town) and they beat Towson, St. Bon, and UMBC. These aren't *great* Ws but they're better than #32.
Bucknell - You have them at #31. they should be closer to #25. Much like Richmond, no bad losses and they beat PSU (who beat Yale), Binghamton, and Robert Morris.

Ok, I am a dyed in wool Terp hater. It is a contractual requirement as a Navy grad. But they are presently number one. If you come up with some statistical analysis that somehow comes up with another team as #1, it is simple, your analysis is flawed.

rolldodge wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:32 pm

Matnum PI wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 3:13 pm

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 2:53 pm Cornell has high quality wins but Princeton with wins over Penn, Georgetown and Rutgers and a tough played loss to Maryland (I know i get slammed for good losses) is a better resume. As said before, this will sort itself out in IVY play. But snapshot in time, Princeton deserves to be higher ranked for now IMO.

P'ton above Cornell, I agree. UVA and G'town, too? That's a tougher one to explain...

Princeton: Top 5 wins: Gtown /// Top 10 wins: Rutgers, Penn /// Top 20 Wins: 0 /// L to Maryland
Cornell: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top ten wins: Ohio State /// Top 20 Wins: Yale, Lehigh
Georgetown: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: Penn /// Top 20 wins: Notre Dame /// L to Princeton
Virginia: Top 5 wins: 0 /// Top 10 wins: UNC /// Top 20 wins: 0 /// L to Maryland

If you are not giving Cornell any extra weight for being undefeated, this is probably the most rational order.

Agree. Strange that HGK is so hyper about the Cornell/Princeton comparison but ignores the Cornell comparison with Georgetown and the recently-routed Virginia. Oh...it's his eye test. Needs an ophthalmologist after this weekend.

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:02 pm Honestly if you want to do it purely statistically and with Zero eye test, why are we even doing this poll?

I don't think anyone is poo-pooing the eye test. Or any other rationale including, I just hate the Terps or whatever. The human-ness of the pollers is half the charm of the polls.

Dip&Dunk wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:06 pm Ok, I am a dyed in wool Terp hater. It is a contractual requirement as a Navy grad. But they are presently number one. If you come up with some statistical analysis that somehow comes up with another team as #1, it is simple, your analysis is flawed.

FTR, I have Maryland as #1. However, I do think that fans have been overstating the value of the win over UVA because they have been overrating UVA all year based on last years results and wins over perennial powers who are underperforming. While I am surprised by the final score, I'm not surprised by the result of that game. UVAs only high quality win is over UNC, who (while currently top 10 in most polls) is one of the weaker and more volatile performers in that category.

I have nothing against Cornell. My sense is Princeton is currently better (resume and eye test) and that Yale win vs Georgetown ND win is close. Could go either way. Let’s see how Hoyas vs Lehigh compares this weekend.

HGK wrote: ↑Mon Mar 21, 2022 5:39 pm I have nothing against Cornell. My sense is Princeton is currently better (resume and eye test) and that Yale win vs Georgetown ND win is close. Could go either way. Let’s see how Hoyas vs Lehigh compares this weekend.

I put Cornell over Princeton in my poll. But if I had to put money right now on the April 30th head to head, I'd probably put it on Princeton. But I wouldn't be very confident in that bet, and that's a long way away.

Cornell defense is very strong; and that attack unit is great but midfield doesn’t matchup for Princeton’s IMO. Those Princeton two ways guys are so good and so versatile on the defensive end.

What could hurt Cornell long term IMO is Petrakis struggling. Only 49% this year; well down from where he was 2020. Psyllos only 24% in relief.

Cornell can go three deep at faceoff.

Based on the current rankings, these are the Best Upcoming Games for the rest of this season:

1 Princeton vs Cornell 4/30/2022
2 Maryland vs Ohio State 4/16/2022
3 Harvard vs Princeton 4/23/2022
4 Maryland vs Rutgers 4/10/2022
5 Penn vs Cornell 3/26/2022
6 Princeton vs Boston University 4/9/2022
7 Virginia vs North Carolina 4/9/2022
8 Cornell vs Harvard 4/9/2022
9 Yale vs Princeton 3/26/2022
10 Rutgers vs Ohio State 3/26/2022
11 Johns Hopkins vs Maryland 4/23/2022
12 Duke vs Virginia 4/14/2022
13 Duke vs North Carolina 5/1/2022
14 Penn vs Harvard 4/16/2022
15 North Carolina vs Duke 4/2/2022
16 Denver vs Georgetown 4/2/2022
17 Cornell vs Army 4/16/2022
18 Ohio State vs Johns Hopkins 4/9/2022
19 Brown vs Princeton 4/2/2022
20 Yale vs Penn 4/2/2022
21 Cornell vs Brown 4/23/2022
22 Harvard vs Boston University 3/22/2022
23 Yale vs Harvard 4/30/2022
24 Rutgers vs Johns Hopkins 4/3/2022
25 Boston University vs Yale 4/5/2022

I'm surprised Cornell-Princeton is a mid-week game. Brown has played Harvard/Yale mid-week over the years, but Ithaca-Princeton is a big trek for a mid-week game.

DALaxDad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 22, 2022 1:04 pm I'm surprised Cornell-Princeton is a mid-week game. Brown has played Harvard/Yale mid-week over the years, but Ithaca-Princeton is a big trek for a mid-week game.

April 30 is a Saturday.