MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:19 am
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:53 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:18 am
youthathletics wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:00 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 10:36 pm
Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world.
And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.
Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.
The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in
my favorite movie....
"Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."
So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.
That's a really good explanation, IMO, and much appreciated.
The explanation of '16 vote is familiar and reasonable IMO, though we saw it differently. I'd quibble on sticking with him and voting for him again, but your current clarity makes sense. Enough.
That's what I've been trying to tell you about why I supported many of his policies & agreed with many of his decisions.
I'm suspect that many of his 74 million voters share our perspective.
He lost me too after the way he reacted to the 2020 election.
Did he lose you?
Yes, with his post election actions
How about Hawley and Cruz and Johnson et al?
I'm ok with them
How about Greene and similar?
Never had me. She belongs to her voters.
Have
they lost you?
I understand the hope/delusion in '16 that Trump was actually "sincere" and had "good intentions"...but it was a delusion. Nearly anyone who had followed him over the years knew that he was not simply "crass", we knew he was dishonest, venal, and cared about only his own self-interest. We knew that his character was by far the worst of any modern President. We knew his campaign and ultimately his Presidency was 100% scam for himself.
I never had great expectations for Trump. I always saw him for what he was. I considered his election an indictment of the current 2 party elite status quo. I was confident we'd survive Trump & hoped he'd push the pendulum back the other direction. I remain surprised at the amount of popular support he won & still retains. I now consider him a liability to the GOP but we need to retain most of his supporters & marginalize the lunatic fringe.
And we were very concerned about his clear authoritarian instincts and 'wannabe' personality. It was clear, to us, that he would treat the world and it's leaders, especially the authoritarians (who could act unilaterally and would likely be in power post Presidency), though a purely transactional, personal, lens.
...& we survived. Biden reaps the benefits & our free-riding allies learned we cannot be taken for granted.
To the extent that he (temporarily) saw the world through the eyes of a segment of the electorate that he realized could be energized to support him, his "policies" could indeed be anticipated to align with those you and millions of others appreciated. But that was always solely because of his own scam, there was never anything beyond transactional.
You underestimate. Don't count on it being temporary or just due to Trump.
I don't believe that 74 million people voted for him
because of his dishonesty and venality, but they were, at a minimum, willing to overlook it, and indeed a surprisingly large portion actually bought the notion that he was honest and even something of a savior (over 50% of the Trump voters actually believed the Qanon stuff about him being the savior against the pedophilia international cabal). Indeed, it appears that many found his bigotry and venality quite appealing.
...or at least no worse that the venality & divisive race based politics of his opponents.
I'll give you great credit for the accuracy of your defenses of the various Generals who Trump appointed initially. I felt they were, at a minimum, making a big mistake to lend him their credibility, at the worst they actually agreed with his bigotry and nativism. You argued that they would be a bulwark against Trump's worst instincts. Indeed, it appears now that Trump "lost" them far faster than he "lost" you and whatever portion of that 74 million who have since become disenchanted...unfortunately, it's apparently still a small portion.
I couldn't resign because I was never appointed. I had no control or influence. I was simply rooting for what I though was best for Team USA. Trump was our elected CinC & I rooted for positive outcomes. I was pleasantly surprised that the successors to the Generals did so well & ultimately stood up to Trump when it mattered. We owe them our gratitude, along with their successors.
The nomination and then election of Trump was an enormous mistake and it's an enormous mistake for the GOP to continue to kowtow to him.
Yeah, yeah, Instead on incessantly complaining about it, you should ponder how & why he appealed enough to 47% of voters for them to choose him rather than Biden.
I don't know how the GOP regains any sort of moral credibility if they don't thoroughly reject Trump, white nationalism, and Qanon style conspiracies.
We'ii see if that matters or if the crazy stuff fades away or is rooted out by what comes next from the Biden Admin & Dem Congress.
