Don Jr, Ivanka & Eric Trump Corruption - Important and Meaningful Issue

[seacoaster]

What YA and the other Trumpists around here constantly fail to take into account in this arena is that there most certainly has NOT been a full investigation of this guy in the last four years.

BTW - Using the term Trumpists for those who want to support an elected POTUS and his policy ideas, clearly displays the elitism to which you say you look down upon. I have the ability to separate the two...I can support a POTUS and not like his behavior. I have been on record hoping he would turn his decorum around...he shiit away many lost opportunities.

Sections b, i, ii, and iii gave them an open door. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ecial.html

If the last four years have any lesson, it is that policy cannot be separated from character. Essentially, rich folks got tax breaks, while the country was broken. "Separating the two" is a sham you imposed on yourself, and on your country for four years. A supporter of that foolishness can be called Trumpist without any suggestion of elitism.

[MDlaxfan76]

What YA and the other Trumpists around here constantly fail to take into account in this arena is that there most certainly has NOT been a full investigation of this guy in the last four years.

BTW - Using the term Trumpists for those who want to support an elected POTUS and his policy ideas, clearly displays the elitism to which you say you look down upon. I have the ability to separate the two...I can support a POTUS and not like his behavior. I have been on record hoping he would turn his decorum around...he shiit away many lost opportunities.

Sections b, i, ii, and iii gave them an open door. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ecial.html

youth, I actually believe you aren't a full-on Trumpist. Full-on Trumpists believe Trump, no matter what he says. Or "we don't take him literally" sometimes. They think the election was stolen, they think he's 'fighting for them', "he loves the USA", he's right that the Russians didn't hack our cyber infrastructure and top agencies, he's right that the Russians didn't meddle on his behalf in the 2016 election, they think he doesn't lie more than any other politician...they all lie...

BUT

You say you can "support an elected POTUS" despite all those things... it's just his "behavior" you don't like...

Pretty darn close to being a Trumpist if that's what you can support in a POTUS.
Here's the thing most of us would say, we support the USA and our Constitutional democracy, not necessarily the President. They aren't the same.

[Farfromgeneva]

Trump’s Family Pardon Plan Might Make Him a Bigger Criminal Target

"The pardon power reaches any violation of federal criminal law but does not extend to state crimes, or to civil or regulatory infractions of either state or federal law. A valid pardon can be issued for a crime that has not been investigated or charged, so long as it occurred prior to the issuance of the pardon. For example, after the Civil War, President Andrew Johnson issued thousands of pardons for treason to former Confederates who had not been charged with that offense. Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter issued broad amnesties to Vietnam draft evaders, some charged with crimes and some not. But a pardon cannot cover either a crime that occurs after its issuance, or a continuing offense like a criminal conspiracy that began before the pardon but was ongoing thereafter. Likewise, the limitation to prior crimes means that the issuance of the pardon could itself be a crime, if it was issued corruptly in connection with a bribe or in order to obstruct justice. This is why the investigation of the “bribery-for-pardon schemes” revealed in unsealed legal filings on Tuesday could expose Trump to his own criminal liability if he participated in any such schemes."

..

Betting line on when a Trump family member or entity is next charged, and whether criminally or civilly?

And odds on which member or entity first?

So, the theory here is that after 4 years, Team Trump has been investigated by damned near every entity in the federal gov't, damned near every news outlet, and for some reason you all brush off anything to do with Team Biden. If not for double standards, you'd all would have no standards...politically speaking. I'll save you a couple paragraphs....I want Trump to go away, I do not watch Fox.

Even if you want him to go away you spent a lot of time defending, deflecting and misdirecting every time a really issue came up and would point at the other side so perhaps they learned it from you dad?

[youthathletics]

Trump’s Family Pardon Plan Might Make Him a Bigger Criminal Target

"The pardon power reaches any violation of federal criminal law but does not extend to state crimes, or to civil or regulatory infractions of either state or federal law. A valid pardon can be issued for a crime that has not been investigated or charged, so long as it occurred prior to the issuance of the pardon. For example, after the Civil War, President Andrew Johnson issued thousands of pardons for treason to former Confederates who had not been charged with that offense. Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter issued broad amnesties to Vietnam draft evaders, some charged with crimes and some not. But a pardon cannot cover either a crime that occurs after its issuance, or a continuing offense like a criminal conspiracy that began before the pardon but was ongoing thereafter. Likewise, the limitation to prior crimes means that the issuance of the pardon could itself be a crime, if it was issued corruptly in connection with a bribe or in order to obstruct justice. This is why the investigation of the “bribery-for-pardon schemes” revealed in unsealed legal filings on Tuesday could expose Trump to his own criminal liability if he participated in any such schemes."

..

Betting line on when a Trump family member or entity is next charged, and whether criminally or civilly?

And odds on which member or entity first?

So, the theory here is that after 4 years, Team Trump has been investigated by damned near every entity in the federal gov't, damned near every news outlet, and for some reason you all brush off anything to do with Team Biden. If not for double standards, you'd all would have no standards...politically speaking. I'll save you a couple paragraphs....I want Trump to go away, I do not watch Fox.

Even if you want him to go away you spent a lot of time defending, deflecting and misdirecting every time a really issue came up and would point at the other side so perhaps they learned it from you dad?

If that is what you took away from my posts, then I suppose I did not get my point across very well.

[Farfromgeneva]

I see a lot on my phone (and type hence run on thoughts and crap spelling)NSRO it may be my level of focus as well.

I see you as different from some but it seems like a lot of what about the Dems. I don’t like much of the Democratic platform but they seem to care more about people these days than republicans who at this stage talk the talk but don’t walk the walk. Not TAATs, my view is Dems use equally binary and irrelevant heuristics to win the debate without proving the point and do as much dirt often (“well they slipped it into budget before so well fast track this waiver down”, “well they’re being mean to us so we will blow up the supermajority rules and pass a law that doesn’t really accomplish nearly what we want and will turn over everyone’s lives but we have to get something done”, “well tom delay turned the party into a moneymaker so we should too”, etc) and can easily leave a trail of tears in its “well intentioned” efforts for generations after it. And they can be punitive and petulant too.

But, as a republican my whole life in principal, it’s hard for me to point fingers at the other house when mine behaves like it’s situated in Amityville. Sure it’s tiring being turd on because my people so dumb stuff, but it’s hard to understand how a solid right sided person who believes what republicans believed in 20 or more years ago Can even speak up under Trump about the other side. We’re a walking clown show and have been for a decade. The tax law was a horrific joke. I didn’t like the Bush cute but felt there might still be room and honestly the delta between 35&38% isn’t major (but lowering cap gains was clearly a huge mistake as was the currency repatriation rule). This one was a disaster from the jump and just hurt most people except a few select classes of citizens. If you’re a social conservative I could understand being psyched by the judges but I’m not. The rest of his term has been an absolute joke.

Republicans are supposed to be for equality of opportunity but reject equality of outcomes (as fantasy or impossible to control in a free society). I don’t see how equality matters at all to a lot of this leadership who’ve tucked tail and gotten in line behind him because a second rate hack chewed them up in a primary in 2015

[dislaxxic]

But, as a republican my whole life in principal, it’s hard for me to point fingers at the other house when mine behaves like it’s situated in Amityville. Sure it’s tiring being turd on because my people so dumb stuff, but it’s hard to understand how a solid right sided person who believes what republicans believed in 20 or more years ago Can even speak up under Trump about the other side. We’re a walking clown show and have been for a decade. The tax law was a horrific joke. I didn’t like the Bush cute but felt there might still be room and honestly the delta between 35&38% isn’t major (but lowering cap gains was clearly a huge mistake as was the currency repatriation rule). This one was a disaster from the jump and just hurt most people except a few select classes of citizens. If you’re a social conservative I could understand being psyched by the judges but I’m not. The rest of his term has been an absolute joke.

Republicans are supposed to be for equality of opportunity but reject equality of outcomes (as fantasy or impossible to control in a free society). I don’t see how equality matters at all to a lot of this leadership who’ve tucked tail and gotten in line behind him because a second rate hack chewed them up in a primary in 2015

Nicely laid out FFG. It truly is head scratching the path (rabbit hole"?) to 'pubs have gone down since Newt and DeLay and others seemed to have steered things as they have these past couple decades. I truly feel there need to be two sides that bargain and compromise in good faith...right now, it seems we just don't have that. You're right, the Dems have their maddening aspects...but the GOP right now? Just in NO WAY is there a TAATS thing going on here.

It will be very fascinating to see how it proceeds...

..

[Farfromgeneva]

But, as a republican my whole life in principal, it’s hard for me to point fingers at the other house when mine behaves like it’s situated in Amityville. Sure it’s tiring being turd on because my people so dumb stuff, but it’s hard to understand how a solid right sided person who believes what republicans believed in 20 or more years ago Can even speak up under Trump about the other side. We’re a walking clown show and have been for a decade. The tax law was a horrific joke. I didn’t like the Bush cute but felt there might still be room and honestly the delta between 35&38% isn’t major (but lowering cap gains was clearly a huge mistake as was the currency repatriation rule). This one was a disaster from the jump and just hurt most people except a few select classes of citizens. If you’re a social conservative I could understand being psyched by the judges but I’m not. The rest of his term has been an absolute joke.

Republicans are supposed to be for equality of opportunity but reject equality of outcomes (as fantasy or impossible to control in a free society). I don’t see how equality matters at all to a lot of this leadership who’ve tucked tail and gotten in line behind him because a second rate hack chewed them up in a primary in 2015

Nicely laid out FFG. It truly is head scratching the path (rabbit hole"?) to 'pubs have gone down since Newt and DeLay and others seemed to have steered things as they have these past couple decades. I truly feel there need to be two sides that bargain and compromise in good faith...right now, it seems we just don't have that. You're right, the Dems have their maddening aspects...but the GOP right now? Just in NO WAY is there a TAATS thing going on here.

It will be very fascinating to see how it proceeds...

..

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

[youthathletics]

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.

The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in my favorite movie...."Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."

So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.

[foreverlax]

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.

The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in my favorite movie...."Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."

So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.

Trump turned about to be a really good politician - he had a lot of the required foundation from his previous life...he became a master in 4 years.

[MDlaxfan76]

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.

The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in my favorite movie...."Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."

So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.

That's a really good explanation, IMO, and much appreciated.
The explanation of '16 vote is familiar and reasonable IMO, though we saw it differently. I'd quibble on sticking with him and voting for him again, but your current clarity makes sense. Enough.

[dislaxxic]

Have Don Junior and Eric Trump committed felony incitement prior to Capitol Riot?

An Important and Meaningful Question...

..

[dislaxxic]

BUT HIS EMAILS! KUSHNER’S UNIQUE EXPOSURE UNDER THE PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS ACT

"The focus on what Trump will burn down in his final days as President has brought renewed focus on whether Trump will manage to destroy evidence on his way out. For example, Trump’s refusal to concede defeat may have delayed the normal archiving process, not to mention the instructions to White House employees that there needed to be an archiving process."

[snip]

"In early December, CREW and the National Security Archive tried to sue to preserve records, requesting a Temporary Restraining Order. While a key part of that suit — which the parties may be moving to novel litigation over — pertains to whether it’s enough to take a screen shot of an electronic communication, the suit also focuses on Jared Kushner’s well-documented habit of using private communications."

..

[CU88]

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner disclosed receiving between $23,791,645 and $120,676,949 in combined outside income during 2020 and January, 2021

https://www.citizensforethics.org/repor ... sclosures/

[MDlaxfan76]

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner disclosed receiving between $23,791,645 and $120,676,949 in combined outside income during 2020 and January, 2021

https://www.citizensforethics.org/repor ... sclosures/

"between"???

Pretty wide range...

[RedFromMI]

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner disclosed receiving between $23,791,645 and $120,676,949 in combined outside income during 2020 and January, 2021

https://www.citizensforethics.org/repor ... sclosures/

"between"???

Pretty wide range...

That is how the reporting system works - big ranges for each sub report.

[MDlaxfan76]

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner disclosed receiving between $23,791,645 and $120,676,949 in combined outside income during 2020 and January, 2021

https://www.citizensforethics.org/repor ... sclosures/

"between"???

Pretty wide range...

That is how the reporting system works - big ranges for each sub report.

So helpful, those disclosures...

[dislaxxic]

Ivanka Trump, Jared Kushner Reaped Stunning Amount Of Outside Income At White House

Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner tried to portray themselves as selfless public servants making financial sacrifices when they declined to take public paychecks while serving as White House advisers to former President Donald Trump.

But the couple ― who last year reportedly spent $30 million on undeveloped property on a Florida island ― nevertheless raked in between $172 million and $640 million in outside income from their myriad business interests during their four years in the Trump administration, according to the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington’s analysis of financial disclosures released on Monday.

..

[dislaxxic]

Report: Manhattan Prosecutor Zeroes In On Don Jr

..

[old salt]

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.

The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in my favorite movie...."Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."

So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.

That's a really good explanation, IMO, and much appreciated.
The explanation of '16 vote is familiar and reasonable IMO, though we saw it differently. I'd quibble on sticking with him and voting for him again, but your current clarity makes sense. Enough.

That's what I've been trying to tell you about why I supported many of his policies & agreed with many of his decisions.

I'm suspect that many of his 74 million voters share our perspective.

He lost me too after the way he reacted to the 2020 election.

[MDlaxfan76]

Have to admit, I’m a little surprise you agree though I know I got on a soapbox for a minute there. I just don’t get how anyone could sell their soul to this dude. I mean if this dude were being offered up in the Faustian bargain I’d more likely roll the dice loaded against me in the world. And I really don’t think Ya is up on his (Trump’s) tip like that so i struggle to understand why he fights so hard for the side that his this douchebag on it. Sometimes it’s ok to take an L and regroup for the larger war.

Why? I suppose it is because I believe people have sincere and good intentions. I knew going in that Trump was a business man and I worked on a project with his team, sat at the table negotiating and discussing progress and changes...all of which were fair and no shady bs, and we got paid for every penny in the end. Certainly others have different experiences that have been expressed around here.

The end point, on why I supported him ... I had great hopes that a non-career politician, with the business background he brought(arguable I know), would come in & be 'that change' in the career politicians' face that would ripple across the states, and not just lip service.....the career politicians got their way. As said in my favorite movie...."Listen I'm a politician. Which Means I am a cheat and liar. When I am not kissing babies I am stealing their Lollipops. But-it also means I keep my options open."

So, yes, I supported what he was trying to do and working on, and sadly on his part, he chose not to change and double down on his crassness, so I say GTFOH. I'll admit it took me longer, and the post election ramp up on his part was it for me.

That's a really good explanation, IMO, and much appreciated.
The explanation of '16 vote is familiar and reasonable IMO, though we saw it differently. I'd quibble on sticking with him and voting for him again, but your current clarity makes sense. Enough.

That's what I've been trying to tell you about why I supported many of his policies & agreed with many of his decisions.

I'm suspect that many of his 74 million voters share our perspective.

He lost me too after the way he reacted to the 2020 election.

Did he lose you?
How about Hawley and Cruz and Johnson et al?
How about Greene and similar?
Have they lost you?

I understand the hope/delusion in '16 that Trump was actually "sincere" and had "good intentions"...but it was a delusion. Nearly anyone who had followed him over the years knew that he was not simply "crass", we knew he was dishonest, venal, and cared about only his own self-interest. We knew that his character was by far the worst of any modern President. We knew his campaign and ultimately his Presidency was 100% scam for himself.

And we were very concerned about his clear authoritarian instincts and 'wannabe' personality. It was clear, to us, that he would treat the world and it's leaders, especially the authoritarians (who could act unilaterally and would likely be in power post Presidency), though a purely transactional, personal, lens.

To the extent that he (temporarily) saw the world through the eyes of a segment of the electorate that he realized could be energized to support him, his "policies" could indeed be anticipated to align with those you and millions of others appreciated. But that was always solely because of his own scam, there was never anything beyond transactional.

I don't believe that 74 million people voted for him because of his dishonesty and venality, but they were, at a minimum, willing to overlook it, and indeed a surprisingly large portion actually bought the notion that he was honest and even something of a savior (over 50% of the Trump voters actually believed the Qanon stuff about him being the savior against the pedophilia international cabal). Indeed, it appears that many found his bigotry and venality quite appealing.

I'll give you great credit for the accuracy of your defenses of the various Generals who Trump appointed initially. I felt they were, at a minimum, making a big mistake to lend him their credibility, at the worst they actually agreed with his bigotry and nativism. You argued that they would be a bulwark against Trump's worst instincts. Indeed, it appears now that Trump "lost" them far faster than he "lost" you and whatever portion of that 74 million who have since become disenchanted...unfortunately, it's apparently still a small portion.

The nomination and then election of Trump was an enormous mistake and it's an enormous mistake for the GOP to continue to kowtow to him.

I don't know how the GOP regains any sort of moral credibility if they don't thoroughly reject Trump, white nationalism, and Qanon style conspiracies.