Sensible Gun Safety

[holmes435]

People with a criminal record were also more likely to die as homicide victims.[84] Between 1990 and 1994, 75% of all homicide victims age 21 and younger in the city of Boston had a prior criminal record.[99] In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996.[84][100]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_viole ... ted_States

Suicide is number one, this is number two for death by guns. Bad guys shooting other bad guys. Doesn't say, but drug activity is probably a big part of it.

For my money, the "red flag" laws would be huge for both suicides and many homicides. But getting by the civil liberties issue is huge, and not just from the NRA. Once you are flagged, you are flagged for life, that could ruin the lives of a lot of young people, mostly men of course, who do and say stupid things when young. It would be hard to get a job, since this will never go away from your internet record. Of course, I doubt they stop the bad guys shooting bad guys, they will still get guns and still be criminals and drug dealers.

And of course one most point out that Japan has very stringent gun laws, yet a higher suicide rate than the USA. So taking away guns may not impact suicides as much as projected.

Not a debate but suicide is a part of Japanese culture.

So as lots of people agree with this assessment, suicide is more a cultural and economic problem.

[DMac]

Yup, that's part of the reason I struggle with focusing on the gun, I don't believe suicide has much at all to do with guns.
I don't believe most of these deaths have anything to do with guns either but it sure is something we could change to cut down on gun deaths. We go about this all wrong, IMO.
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the ... and-drugs/
If the number of deaths is the issue, and not just the guns, here's a way we could cut down on them big time. I must say, I agree with Mr. Maher 100% on this one, I notice this every day, everywhere I go.
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/bil ... 18084.html

[ardilla secreta]

“Findings This cross-sectional study found that suicide rates in the United States increased from 1999 to 2016, with the greatest increase in rural counties. Deprivation had a disproportionately negative association with suicide rates in rural counties, the presence of gun shops and a higher percentage of uninsured individuals were associated with higher suicide rates, and high social capital was associated with lower suicide rates.”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2749451

[Typical Lax Dad]

People with a criminal record were also more likely to die as homicide victims.[84] Between 1990 and 1994, 75% of all homicide victims age 21 and younger in the city of Boston had a prior criminal record.[99] In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996.[84][100]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_viole ... ted_States

Suicide is number one, this is number two for death by guns. Bad guys shooting other bad guys. Doesn't say, but drug activity is probably a big part of it.

For my money, the "red flag" laws would be huge for both suicides and many homicides. But getting by the civil liberties issue is huge, and not just from the NRA. Once you are flagged, you are flagged for life, that could ruin the lives of a lot of young people, mostly men of course, who do and say stupid things when young. It would be hard to get a job, since this will never go away from your internet record. Of course, I doubt they stop the bad guys shooting bad guys, they will still get guns and still be criminals and drug dealers.

And of course one most point out that Japan has very stringent gun laws, yet a higher suicide rate than the USA. So taking away guns may not impact suicides as much as projected.

Not a debate but suicide is a part of Japanese culture.

So as lots of people agree with this assessment, suicide is more a cultural and economic problem.

In japan. Not sure if suicide is cultural in this country. My wife’s cousin’s job right now is to study suicide’s in the military. It’s. DoD job. I am going to ask her if there is any indication that suicides are cultural in the USA. Increased Gun regulation will not have a statistically significant impact. Likely to reduce some but not all. Every life we can save from a senseless death is worthwhile to me but I am an idealist. It is not you gun I want. I want less of a gun culture and less availability so guns are harder to come by for criminals and for people who are eventually going to kill their wife or kids. Guy in my neighborhood shot his wife and kids and they survived. Next door neighbor growing up shot and killed his wife. It is senseless but Oh well....

[DMac]

“Findings This cross-sectional study found that suicide rates in the United States increased from 1999 to 2016, with the greatest increase in rural counties. Deprivation had a disproportionately negative association with suicide rates in rural counties, the presence of gun shops and a higher percentage of uninsured individuals were associated with higher suicide rates, and high social capital was associated with lower suicide rates.”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2749451

Conversely, increases in the presence of gun shops had less association with suicide rates in rural counties than in all other county types

Hard for me to imagine that gun shops in rural counties really have much to do with suicide and the article really focuses on deprivation and health insurance as a much bigger factor. Most of those rural folks have had guns in the house for generations.
I sure don't know how they come up with more vererans inasmuch as less than 1% of the population has ever been in the military, while in previous decades a much, much higher percentage served. Am not trying to be "smarter" than those who did the study, just leaves me with a couple of questions.

[MDlaxfan76]

“Findings This cross-sectional study found that suicide rates in the United States increased from 1999 to 2016, with the greatest increase in rural counties. Deprivation had a disproportionately negative association with suicide rates in rural counties, the presence of gun shops and a higher percentage of uninsured individuals were associated with higher suicide rates, and high social capital was associated with lower suicide rates.”

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane ... le/2749451

Conversely, increases in the presence of gun shops had less association with suicide rates in rural counties than in all other county types

Hard for me to imagine that gun shops in rural counties really have much to do with suicide and the article really focuses on deprivation and health insurance as a much bigger factor. Most of those rural folks have had guns in the house for generations.
I sure don't know how they come up with more vererans inasmuch as less than 1% of the population has ever been in the military, while in previous decades a much, much higher percentage served. Am not trying to be "smarter" than those who did the study, just leaves me with a couple of questions.

Fair enough questions.
A gun simply makes the suicide a nearly sure thing, but it is not in itself a driver of the choice to attempt suicide.
Zero guns would not eliminate suicide attempts, but it would cut down on the % successful.
There are those who also argue that the simplicity of success with a gun is 'appealing' to those wavering on whether to do it.
Ready access to 'success' is not helpful in those moments.

But there's indeed a 'cultural' aspect demonstrated by US men (who are far more likely to be comfortable with a gun) having a far greater predilection for choosing a gun to attempt suicide than women. More likely to use a gun for murder as well.

I just don't think we're going to eliminate guns. Too deep rooted, and despite the societal costs, I don't think it's the best path for the US.

So, what is 'sensible'?
Surely it's not to encourage anyone and everyone to have ready access to a gun (gun manufacturer lobby position). Registration of all guns, required gun safety courses, required locked access/and or biometric access, no transfer without background checks, all straightforward and do not impinge on legit use.

Nor is it to have anyone have unregulated access to high capacity weapons of war (gun manufacturer lobby position). Regulated gun ranges, under lock and key? Sure. But no way these weapons should be in someone's basement for any Tom, Dick or Harry to grab and let loose.

Gun controls will not solve all issues (eg drug violence), but it's flat dumb not to have them part of the mix of 'sensible' responses.

[ABV 8.3%]

Yes, E-verify makes a ton of sense. For employment. (But also for gun registration.)

But it also makes a ton of sense to significantly increase guest worker, green card programs, etc as well as path to citizenship, etc. Make it much, much easier to be 'legal', screening for violent criminals and serious terrorist risks. Get folks into the legal system, paying taxes, building their own personal prosperity as they contribute to overall society. Many illegals have zero desire to become citizens. Ever.

My mom's Trump supporter guest this week was talking about her son-in-law's site prep construction business in Montana. He used to have 5 crews of Mexican migrant workers, now down to one, the 'immigration crisis' is strangling his business, he can't find any workers willing to come to Montana to do this work. Just love the cretins that blame "the work" as the reason why they can't "find" willing workers. Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming it on the REAL reason their lousy pay thShe's confused about how to think about this...

Over 10 years now, when that backpack company got nabbed with 100's of illegals.....either New Bedford or Fall River, I forget which......but, when the back pack company HAD to hire LEGAL workers, thousands of people showed up. Yeah....the work

Yeah...taking jobs Americans are willing to do:

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi- ... migration/

Heading back home, stopped in Reins deli, north of Harford. Observed....well, you know what I saw.... As rice.......as far as the eye can see.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes, E-verify makes a ton of sense. For employment. (But also for gun registration.)

But it also makes a ton of sense to significantly increase guest worker, green card programs, etc as well as path to citizenship, etc. Make it much, much easier to be 'legal', screening for violent criminals and serious terrorist risks. Get folks into the legal system, paying taxes, building their own personal prosperity as they contribute to overall society. Many illegals have zero desire to become citizens. Ever.

My mom's Trump supporter guest this week was talking about her son-in-law's site prep construction business in Montana. He used to have 5 crews of Mexican migrant workers, now down to one, the 'immigration crisis' is strangling his business, he can't find any workers willing to come to Montana to do this work. Just love the cretins that blame "the work" as the reason why they can't "find" willing workers. Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming it on the REAL reason their lousy pay thShe's confused about how to think about this...

Over 10 years now, when that backpack company got nabbed with 100's of illegals.....either New Bedford or Fall River, I forget which......but, when the back pack company HAD to hire LEGAL workers, thousands of people showed up. Yeah....the work

Yeah...taking jobs Americans are willing to do:

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi- ... migration/

Heading back home, stopped in Reins deli, north of Harford. Observed....well, you know what I saw.... As rice.......as far as the eye can see.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/tallah ... index.html

[ABV 8.3%]

Yes, E-verify makes a ton of sense. For employment. (But also for gun registration.)

But it also makes a ton of sense to significantly increase guest worker, green card programs, etc as well as path to citizenship, etc. Make it much, much easier to be 'legal', screening for violent criminals and serious terrorist risks. Get folks into the legal system, paying taxes, building their own personal prosperity as they contribute to overall society. Many illegals have zero desire to become citizens. Ever.

My mom's Trump supporter guest this week was talking about her son-in-law's site prep construction business in Montana. He used to have 5 crews of Mexican migrant workers, now down to one, the 'immigration crisis' is strangling his business, he can't find any workers willing to come to Montana to do this work. Just love the cretins that blame "the work" as the reason why they can't "find" willing workers. Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming it on the REAL reason their lousy pay thShe's confused about how to think about this...

Over 10 years now, when that backpack company got nabbed with 100's of illegals.....either New Bedford or Fall River, I forget which......but, when the back pack company HAD to hire LEGAL workers, thousands of people showed up. Yeah....the work

Yeah...taking jobs Americans are willing to do:

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi- ... migration/

Heading back home, stopped in Reins deli, north of Harford. Observed....well, you know what I saw.... As rice.......as far as the eye can see.

That includes the staff, for those that may not know the place. The staff were all white.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Yes, E-verify makes a ton of sense. For employment. (But also for gun registration.)

But it also makes a ton of sense to significantly increase guest worker, green card programs, etc as well as path to citizenship, etc. Make it much, much easier to be 'legal', screening for violent criminals and serious terrorist risks. Get folks into the legal system, paying taxes, building their own personal prosperity as they contribute to overall society. Many illegals have zero desire to become citizens. Ever.

My mom's Trump supporter guest this week was talking about her son-in-law's site prep construction business in Montana. He used to have 5 crews of Mexican migrant workers, now down to one, the 'immigration crisis' is strangling his business, he can't find any workers willing to come to Montana to do this work. Just love the cretins that blame "the work" as the reason why they can't "find" willing workers. Instead of looking in the mirror and blaming it on the REAL reason their lousy pay thShe's confused about how to think about this...

Over 10 years now, when that backpack company got nabbed with 100's of illegals.....either New Bedford or Fall River, I forget which......but, when the back pack company HAD to hire LEGAL workers, thousands of people showed up. Yeah....the work

Yeah...taking jobs Americans are willing to do:

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-fi- ... migration/

Heading back home, stopped in Reins deli, north of Harford. Observed....well, you know what I saw.... As rice.......as far as the eye can see.

That includes the staff, for those that may not know the place. The staff were all white.

Should have taken exit 68 and headed south to Willimantic

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm wondering about this statement:

Many illegals have zero desire to become citizens. Ever.

What do you mean by "many" ABV and where is your basis of this assertion?

I can imagine that the drug cartel folks may have no interest in citizenship per se, but I'm struggling to understand the statement beyond that. The actual criminal element is quite small asa percentage of undocumented folks, smaller than in our general population, so you must mean something more than that, right?

Are you talking about folks who simply want to work and send the bulk of their funds back to their families still in their home country? I can imagine this group being split between desire for permanent citizenship versus legal guest worker status. Not sure what the % would be, but I'd be willing to bet that most of these folks would prefer permanent, but ALL would like to have at least secure legal status.

My son, for instance, lives and works in Shanghai. He has no interest in becoming a Chinese citizen but he sure as heck wants to be recognized as legally there, able to work not simply visit. They make that possible. Not simple, but possible.

Certainly there are undocumented folks in the US who might fit the same idea of a desire to return to their home countries and not obtain citizenship. But the undocumented folks from "s-hole countries" referenced by Trump are very unlikely to not want to stay in the US. They just want the rest of their families to come here as well.

[DMac]

Went to my first ever gun show yesterday, was really just tagging along with friends, one of whose son was hell bent on buying an AK47 to add to his gun collection. Don't have much good news for the anti gunners screaming for more laws and restrictions (which I'm not opposed to). I'm more convinced now that this 350mil number of guns we hear about (and have heard about for a long time) is way off the mark. There was a boatload, as in real big boatload, of all kinds and varities of guns for sale for the thousands who were browsing and considering buying, to say nothing of the pallets full of ammo. This was just one show in a relatively small city. My son's friend had little to no difficulty in finding the AK47 he wanted, and little to no trouble buying it. Hand the seller about $700 in cash, wait for about a ten minute phone call to do your background check, and you've got a tag on your gun that okays your carrying it out of the building and taking it home. Your background check is a joke, folks. When I was in the service, on two ocassions people went to people who knew me to see if they thought I was worthy of, or trustworthy enough, for two different programs/clearances. The first time they went to my football and lacrosse coaches, the second time they went to a half a dozen or so of my friends. These people told me they had come to check on me. Your background check for an AK47 is a joke. Had anyone asked me if I thought this kid (27 year old) should have an AK47, I would have said no. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but them's the facts, folks (a whole lot of people were walking out of that building with guns and ammo).
Whole lot of Trump paraphanalia for sale there too. T-shirts with a picture of the Prez along with revolting little sayings on them, along with a bunch of like hats. Apparently this old timer with his John Deere hat on looked like a classic conservative R to what I think was a mother-daughter duo selling their Trump stuff. As we were passing buy them to the next table loaded with guns, I nodded and said, "How's it all going, ladies" (with a smile on my face, which is pretty much the norm for me.) The fiesty young one answered with, "Great, I don't have to sit and listen to a bunch of whining, socialist, liberal, democrats in here." She then went on to tell me she was working for the R party selling these shirts for their campaign fund and asked me if I wanted to buy one. I asked her if she meant one of these with a picture of the guy who took the most chickeschidt way out of serving when it was time to man up during the Vietnam era. I then told her I wouldn't take one of her t-shirts for free if I needed something to wipe my a*s*s with. That pretty much ended the conversation as I got nothing but the jaw drop look but no more words from either one of them. When this great reader of people first opened her mouth with her nasty little line of BS, my buddies just kept moving along...they had a damn good idea of how that conversation was going to go. Can't say as I blame them. I really was pis*ed for the rest of the day at this little yeast infection....too many Trump supporters are incredibly ignorant, agressive, and just nasty.
There's my little gun show report.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Went to my first ever gun show yesterday, was really just tagging along with friends, one of whose son was hell bent on buying an AK47 to add to his gun collection. Don't have much good news for the anti gunners screaming for more laws and restrictions (which I'm not opposed to). I'm more convinced now that this 350mil number of guns we hear about (and have heard about for a long time) is way off the mark. There was a boatload, as in real big boatload, of all kinds and varities of guns for sale for the thousands who were browsing and considering buying, to say nothing of the pallets full of ammo. This was just one show in a relatively small city. My son's friend had little to no difficulty in finding the AK47 he wanted, and little to no trouble buying it. Hand the seller about $700 in cash, wait for about a ten minute phone call to do your background check, and you've got a tag on your gun that okays your carrying it out of the building and taking it home. Your background check is a joke, folks. When I was in the service, on two ocassions people went to people who knew me to see if they thought I was worthy of, or trustworthy enough, for two different programs/clearances. The first time they went to my football and lacrosse coaches, the second time they went to a half a dozen or so of my friends. These people told me they had come to check on me. Your background check for an AK47 is a joke. Had anyone asked me if I thought this kid (27 year old) should have an AK47, I would have said no. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but them's the facts, folks (a whole lot of people were walking out of that building with guns and ammo).
Whole lot of Trump paraphanalia for sale there too. T-shirts with a picture of the Prez along with revolting little sayings on them, along with a bunch of like hats. Apparently this old timer with his John Deere hat on looked like a classic conservative R to what I think was a mother-daughter duo selling their Trump stuff. As we were passing buy them to the next table loaded with guns, I nodded and said, "How's it all going, ladies" (with a smile on my face, which is pretty much the norm for me.) The fiesty young one answered with, "Great, I don't have to sit and listen to a bunch of whining, socialist, liberal, democrats in here." She then went on to tell me she was working for the R party selling these shirts for their campaign fund and asked me if I wanted to buy one. I asked her if she meant one of these with a picture of the guy who took the most chickeschidt way out of serving when it was time to man up during the Vietnam era. I then told her I wouldn't take one of her t-shirts for free if I needed something to wipe my a*s*s with. That pretty much ended the conversation as I got nothing but the jaw drop look but no more words from either one of them. When this great reader of people first opened her mouth with her nasty little line of BS, my buddies just kept moving along...they had a damn good idea of how that conversation was going to go. Can't say as I blame them. I really was pis*ed for the rest of the day at this little yeast infection....too many Trump supporters are incredibly ignorant, agressive, and just nasty.
There's my little gun show report.

Thanks for the report..... Deplorable. L and M must not have run across these great folks on his cross country tour. Unfortunately, I can't say I am surprised... probably a couple of my elementary and high school classmates. I am a firm believer in 2nd amendment rights but there is a concept of something rational. We have a gun culture problem in this country. It will take a long time to reign in but change the culture and reduce the supply. May not make much of a difference but it is kind of crazy right now.

[old salt]

Went to my first ever gun show yesterday, was really just tagging along with friends, one of whose son was hell bent on buying an AK47 to add to his gun collection. Don't have much good news for the anti gunners screaming for more laws and restrictions (which I'm not opposed to). I'm more convinced now that this 350mil number of guns we hear about (and have heard about for a long time) is way off the mark. There was a boatload, as in real big boatload, of all kinds and varities of guns for sale for the thousands who were browsing and considering buying, to say nothing of the pallets full of ammo. This was just one show in a relatively small city. My son's friend had little to no difficulty in finding the AK47 he wanted, and little to no trouble buying it. Hand the seller about $700 in cash, wait for about a ten minute phone call to do your background check, and you've got a tag on your gun that okays your carrying it out of the building and taking it home. Your background check is a joke, folks. When I was in the service, on two ocassions people went to people who knew me to see if they thought I was worthy of, or trustworthy enough, for two different programs/clearances. The first time they went to my football and lacrosse coaches, the second time they went to a half a dozen or so of my friends. These people told me they had come to check on me. Your background check for an AK47 is a joke. Had anyone asked me if I thought this kid (27 year old) should have an AK47, I would have said no. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but them's the facts, folks (a whole lot of people were walking out of that building with guns and ammo).
Whole lot of Trump paraphanalia for sale there too. T-shirts with a picture of the Prez along with revolting little sayings on them, along with a bunch of like hats. Apparently this old timer with his John Deere hat on looked like a classic conservative R to what I think was a mother-daughter duo selling their Trump stuff. As we were passing buy them to the next table loaded with guns, I nodded and said, "How's it all going, ladies" (with a smile on my face, which is pretty much the norm for me.) The fiesty young one answered with, "Great, I don't have to sit and listen to a bunch of whining, socialist, liberal, democrats in here." She then went on to tell me she was working for the R party selling these shirts for their campaign fund and asked me if I wanted to buy one. I asked her if she meant one of these with a picture of the guy who took the most chickeschidt way out of serving when it was time to man up during the Vietnam era. I then told her I wouldn't take one of her t-shirts for free if I needed something to wipe my a*s*s with. That pretty much ended the conversation as I got nothing but the jaw drop look but no more words from either one of them. When this great reader of people first opened her mouth with her nasty little line of BS, my buddies just kept moving along...they had a damn good idea of how that conversation was going to go. Can't say as I blame them. I really was pis*ed for the rest of the day at this little yeast infection....too many Trump supporters are incredibly ignorant, agressive, and just nasty.
There's my little gun show report.

.. Great story Dmac. You went into the belly of the beast, said your piece & didn't get drawn down on or punched out. BZ !

[DMac]

Actually, OS, there's a part of the adventure along those lines that wasn't in the story. I was more pis*ed two minutes later after I had told the gal I didn't want one of her t-shirts. I delivered that message pretty calmly all in all, with a little authority and tone maybe, but nothing really aggressive or out of line about it. I told the crew I was going to head back and have a little chat with this gal and I'd find them down the line when I'm done, don't worry about me, I'll catch up to you. Keep in mind, the 27 year old wanted to buy an AK47, the last thing he was looking for was a little commotion caused by one of the crew he was with. He jumped in with a pretty quick, No, please don't go back there...he had a real good idea how that was gonna go. His father agreed as did the other friend. Ultimately I listened (would not have had he not been there to buy that gun), showed restraint, and behaved myself. Just wanted to give these gals a little tongue lashing about how they approach people and how pi*s poor the method they're using now is. There's not much of a doubt I would have jumped in a little deeper at that point (hence, no DMac, please don't go back there) so I pretty much figured I needed to sacrafice myself for the gun buyer. Am still pi*sed at that cute (hence the nod, smile, and how's it all going, ladies comment) curly haired red head, whose t*ts looked nice in her revolting t-shirt, mouthy little b*tch.

[old salt]

You do know that that red head was Maria Butina's little sister, right ?

[Typical Lax Dad]

You do know that that red head was Maria Butina's little sister, right ?

She had a nasty potty mouth.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oh well:

https://nypost.com/2019/09/16/two-dead- ... -building/

[Typical Lax Dad]

Three for the good guy:

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/09/17/us/geo ... cnn.com%2F