Trump's Russian Collusion

[Trinity]

Tons of collusion, but you know that if you read only the Report summaries.

[a fan]

Wait & see what the DoJ IG reports.

As a reminder, we don't get to hear much of the report. Classified.

If there aren't indictments handed out, that's when the spin will start. And if they didn't interview the FISA Judges, the entire exercise is pointless.

[old salt]

Moved from the North Korea thread, which was highjacked by TDS Russophobes :

The Steele dossier was injected into the govt via multiple streams --
Steele directly to the FBI to DoJ, HRC hacks to State Dept to DoJ, CIA Director to DoJ via Sen Reid, & multiple MSM inquiries.
The McCain channel was the last & latest channel, now being cited as face saving cover.

The dossier wasn't declared a red herring until it started to unravel, then the (D)'s & MSM began distancing themselves from it, while shifting focus to the Popadop opera bouffe, which is still to be fully revealed & reported. Stay tuned, as more comes out on Mifsud, Halper, Downer, Azra Turk, & the rest of the set up crew.

So, Russia really didn't attempt to tilt the election on behalf of Trump?

You're grasping at straws, diverting & deflecting.
The subject is the Steele dossier, how it was assembled, who paid for it & how it was used, inside & outside the govt.

If you're actually concerned about foreign interference & disinformation in our elections, you should be as interested in the Steele dossier as you are about the Russia collusion hoax.

Of course Russia attemped to interfere in the election, to discredit HRC after she was elected.
Just as everyone associated with the production & exploitation of the Steele dossier attempted to prevent Trump's election, then undermine his Presidency & end it after one term, or sooner, if possible.

Russia's plan worked beyond it's expectations & TDS zombies who cling to the Steele dossier & refuse to examine what it was part of, are the enduring useful idiots who continue to pay dividends on Russia's initial investment.

Complete baloney again from you Salty.

Your attack on the Steele communications is all part of your deflection from the reality, as reported by the Mueller team exhaustively, that the Russians attempted to interfere in the election on behalf of Trump. That was the primary point of the Steele memos..the Russians have an active measures campaign and no one seems to care!

You now go on and expand that deflection to "Russia collusion hoax". Ignoring the exhaustive reporting by Mueller that the Trump team knew the Russians were interfering on Trump's behalf and welcomed it. Again and again and again. No hoax. And they lied about it again and again and again. No hoax. And Trump subsequently obstructed the investigation, at least multiple times as documented. No hoax.

And you're whining in subsequent posts that the 'MSM interfered' in the election. The free press reporting is interference???

Hoo boy.

...& you continue to distract & deflect from the fact that the key parts of the Steele dossier, that were used by you & the MSM to hammer Trump for 3 years now, still remain unsubstantiated or have been proven false. I'm talking about what the Steele dossier alleged about Trump, not what it said about Russia. You continue to ignore the reality thar Steele has now admitted that he was desperate to prevent Trump's election & that he was uncertain about the validity of his "intel". You continue to defend Steele's bogus sludge as legal oppo & ignore the fact that the FBI (as well as the DNC/FBI) paid him for it & the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

On Russian interference, Mueller's report told us little beyond what we already learned from his "speaking" indictments (which will never go to court) & the IC's report in Jan '17. The Mueller report just provides more granular detail in a readable narrative.

You and Hannity et al (sheesh, Hannity was coordinating Manafort's defense!!!) simply want to change the focus away from Trump and his complicity with, or at least welcoming of, the Russian efforts to help his campaign.
Show me where I ever defended Manafort. You're projecting again, Joe McCarthy style

The key aspects of the Steele docs were that the Russians had an active measures campaign on behalf of Trump.
And, yes, that Trump and crew had various interactions with the Russians. All true. And certainly alarming.
So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

But it's not accurate that this alone, or even primarily, was the basis of the FISA warrants, much less the 3 times they needed to be renewed by different judges and based on actual findings from the prior surveillance.
See the below report dtd 1/11'17

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... a-contacts

The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed...

The initial FISA application, before inclusion of Steele dossier "intel", was disapproved by the FISA Judge.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... t-renewals

The veracity of Steele's dossier was undercut by Mueller, whose report on the findings of his expansive Russia investigation was released by the Justice Department in redacted form on Thursday. Mueller found the two most dramatic claims in Steele’s dossier likely lacked substance: former Trump attorney Michael Cohen meeting with Kremlin operatives in Prague in the summer of 2016 and the Russians obtaining compromising material on Trump.

Steele himself described the findings in the dossier as raw intelligence, and in a deposition that was part of a lawsuit against BuzzFeed, he said "yes" when asked if some of the Russia claims could be fake.

The FBI suspended its relationship with Steele in October 2016 for unauthorized contact with the media. Despite this, the FBI maintained an unofficial backchannel with Steele up to at least November 2017 via Justice Department official Bruce Ohr.

[a fan]

So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

Trump Tower. They attempted to collude with a spy.

You've never gone on record with this: you telling us that you don't care? All the key principles under the direct orders from Trump (obviously), met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary. And of course, we only have the word of those present that no such dirt was offered.

Do you really not have a problem with that? That's ok in your book?

[MDlaxfan76]

But again, you're just trying to distract from what actually is serious. The Russians interfered on behalf of Trump. He and his cronies knew that and welcomed the help. They had lots and lots of meetings with Russians, and lied over and over again about it.

And yet, no collusion and no indictments regarding collusion...

I thought you read Weiss...er, I mean Mueller's report?

You mean "conspiracy", right?
"Collusion" is described exhaustively but "collusion" ain't a crime.

Read it. Tons of "collusion"...and lying about it.

The necessary elements for "obstruction" which actually IS a crime are laid out exhaustively as well, but of course Mueller says he knew from the outset that he couldn't indict Trump for ANY crime...but once he leaves office, fair game. So, record is established so as to enable such a prosecution and/or for the constitutional authority, Congress, to handle it sooner.

But what really perplexes folks like me is how you and others, who are presumably capable of rational thought, choose to pretend that Trump's not dirty as all get out. I get it that you hate Dems but why the constant apologia for Trump?

[old salt]

So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

Trump Tower. They attempted to collude with a spy.

You've never gone on record with this: you telling us that you don't care? All the key principles under the direct orders from Trump (obviously), met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary. And of course, we only have the word of those present that no such dirt was offered.

Do you really not have a problem with that? That's ok in your book?

Yes I have -- it was stupid, amateurish, & unethical, ...just like so much that Trump & his campaign did.

Remember when I pointed out that Brennan testified about getting " led down a treasonous path, either wittingly or unwittingly."

If "colluding", you don't do it so openly.

[Trinity]

Like passing off voter data to Kilimnick. That was sneaky.

[old salt]

So where is the conspiracy indictment ?

[Trinity]

Manafort won’t talk. Terror works. Obstruction works. Read the report. Mueller says so.

[MDlaxfan76]

Moved from the North Korea thread, which was highjacked by TDS Russophobes :

The Steele dossier was injected into the govt via multiple streams --
Steele directly to the FBI to DoJ, HRC hacks to State Dept to DoJ, CIA Director to DoJ via Sen Reid, & multiple MSM inquiries.
The McCain channel was the last & latest channel, now being cited as face saving cover.

The dossier wasn't declared a red herring until it started to unravel, then the (D)'s & MSM began distancing themselves from it, while shifting focus to the Popadop opera bouffe, which is still to be fully revealed & reported. Stay tuned, as more comes out on Mifsud, Halper, Downer, Azra Turk, & the rest of the set up crew.

So, Russia really didn't attempt to tilt the election on behalf of Trump?

You're grasping at straws, diverting & deflecting.
The subject is the Steele dossier, how it was assembled, who paid for it & how it was used, inside & outside the govt.

If you're actually concerned about foreign interference & disinformation in our elections, you should be as interested in the Steele dossier as you are about the Russia collusion hoax.

Of course Russia attemped to interfere in the election, to discredit HRC after she was elected.
Just as everyone associated with the production & exploitation of the Steele dossier attempted to prevent Trump's election, then undermine his Presidency & end it after one term, or sooner, if possible.

Russia's plan worked beyond it's expectations & TDS zombies who cling to the Steele dossier & refuse to examine what it was part of, are the enduring useful idiots who continue to pay dividends on Russia's initial investment.

Complete baloney again from you Salty.

Your attack on the Steele communications is all part of your deflection from the reality, as reported by the Mueller team exhaustively, that the Russians attempted to interfere in the election on behalf of Trump. That was the primary point of the Steele memos..the Russians have an active measures campaign and no one seems to care!

You now go on and expand that deflection to "Russia collusion hoax". Ignoring the exhaustive reporting by Mueller that the Trump team knew the Russians were interfering on Trump's behalf and welcomed it. Again and again and again. No hoax. And they lied about it again and again and again. No hoax. And Trump subsequently obstructed the investigation, at least multiple times as documented. No hoax.

And you're whining in subsequent posts that the 'MSM interfered' in the election. The free press reporting is interference???

Hoo boy.

...& you continue to distract & deflect from the fact that the key parts of the Steele dossier, that were used by you & the MSM to hammer Trump for 3 years now, still remain unsubstantiated or have been proven false. I'm talking about what the Steele dossier alleged about Trump, not what it said about Russia. You continue to ignore the reality thar Steele has now admitted that he was desperate to prevent Trump's election & that he was uncertain about the validity of his "intel". You continue to defend Steele's bogus sludge as legal oppo & ignore the fact that the FBI (as well as the DNC/FBI) paid him for it & the FBI/DoJ used it to obtain FISA warrants to spy on innocent American citizens.

On Russian interference, Mueller's report told us little beyond what we already learned from his "speaking" indictments (which will never go to court) & the IC's report in Jan '17. The Mueller report just provides more granular detail in a readable narrative.

You and Hannity et al (sheesh, Hannity was coordinating Manafort's defense!!!) simply want to change the focus away from Trump and his complicity with, or at least welcoming of, the Russian efforts to help his campaign.
Show me where I ever defended Manafort. You're projecting again, Joe McCarthy style

The key aspects of the Steele docs were that the Russians had an active measures campaign on behalf of Trump.
And, yes, that Trump and crew had various interactions with the Russians. All true. And certainly alarming.
So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

But it's not accurate that this alone, or even primarily, was the basis of the FISA warrants, much less the 3 times they needed to be renewed by different judges and based on actual findings from the prior surveillance.
See the below report dtd 1/11'17

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... a-contacts

The Guardian has learned that the FBI applied for a warrant from the foreign intelligence surveillance (Fisa) court over the summer in order to monitor four members of the Trump team suspected of irregular contacts with Russian officials. The Fisa court turned down the application asking FBI counter-intelligence investigators to narrow its focus. According to one report, the FBI was finally granted a warrant in October, but that has not been confirmed...

The initial FISA application, before inclusion of Steele dossier "intel", was disapproved by the FISA Judge.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... t-renewals

The veracity of Steele's dossier was undercut by Mueller, whose report on the findings of his expansive Russia investigation was released by the Justice Department in redacted form on Thursday. Mueller found the two most dramatic claims in Steele’s dossier likely lacked substance: former Trump attorney Michael Cohen meeting with Kremlin operatives in Prague in the summer of 2016 and the Russians obtaining compromising material on Trump.

Steele himself described the findings in the dossier as raw intelligence, and in a deposition that was part of a lawsuit against BuzzFeed, he said "yes" when asked if some of the Russia claims could be fake.

The FBI suspended its relationship with Steele in October 2016 for unauthorized contact with the media. Despite this, the FBI maintained an unofficial backchannel with Steele up to at least November 2017 via Justice Department official Bruce Ohr.

Correct, no " criminal conspiracy" charge.
Lots of attempts at "collusion", but not a case of "criminal conspiracy". At least not sufficient to be proven in court. Lots of evidence, just not enough to be overwhelming. And that was the standard.

On Manafort, you dismissed his involvement, despite being Campaign Chairman, as immaterial. I don't know whether that's a defense of Manafort, but obviously you're trying to say Trump's not an idiot for having hired him.

And you clearly just don't want anyone to think Trump's in cahoots with Putin, nor even that Putin's seriously bad actor actively interfering in western democracies on behalf of right-wing authoritarians.

Why, who knows.

[a fan]

So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

Trump Tower. They attempted to collude with a spy.

You've never gone on record with this: you telling us that you don't care? All the key principles under the direct orders from Trump (obviously), met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary. And of course, we only have the word of those present that no such dirt was offered.

Do you really not have a problem with that? That's ok in your book?

Yes I have -- it was stupid, amateurish, & unethical, ...just like so much that Trump & his campaign did.

Remember when I pointed out that Brennan testified about getting " led down a treasonous path, either wittingly or unwittingly."

If "colluding", you don't do it so openly.

Ok. So if you agree that this stuff happened....attempted collusion...then why are you so mad at our Intel for investigating these idiots? Just a few posts up you called them "innocent American citizens". Clearly that's not what they were.

And if you're in the FBI? And you read the internal memo about the Tower meeting. And then the Flynn meeting followed by his lie not just to the FBI, but to Pence? You're telling me you're not just a tad freaked out?

All of this, as I said from the start, is Occam's Razor. You are vilifying people for doing their jobs. As for the leaks? Easy ethical explanation: the FBI works for Trump. illegal? Yep. Should they to to jail? Yep. But it was, imho, an ethical move. As I have said dozens of times now, our Constitution isn't set up for these shenanigans. Trump put Comey and the FBI between the same rock and a hard place that the idiot Hillary did. So mistakes happened. Lines were crossed.

And think about who those leaks were targeted to.... they weren't targeted at me. I don't need a memo to understand Trump and his idiots are corrupt POS's. They were targeted at YOU, as well as FoxNation. Imagine their horror when they found out that you and FoxNation didn't care. Not even a little.

[old salt]

Manafort won’t talk. Terror works. Obstruction works. Read the report. Mueller says so.

Maybe this is why they didn't go for conspiracy, based on PM -- KK.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... lly-biased

Federal court transcripts from February 2019 show that Mueller’s team acknowledged they were aware of Kilimnik’s discussions with the U.S. government.

And Judge Amy Berman Jackson addressed the issue as well when discussing whether or not Manafort had lied about his interactions with Kilimnik. “Whether Kilimnik is tied to Russian intelligence or he’s not, I think the specific representation by the Office of Special Counsel was that he had been, quote, assessed by the FBI, quote, to have a relationship with Russian intelligence, close quote.”

So why not present the FBI"s case ?

[Trinity]

Because we know zero about the counterintelligence Investigation. Money streams? Leverage? Not addressed in the report.

[MDlaxfan76]

Manafort won’t talk. Terror works. Obstruction works. Read the report. Mueller says so.

Maybe this is why they didn't go for conspiracy, based on PM -- KK.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... lly-biased

Federal court transcripts from February 2019 show that Mueller’s team acknowledged they were aware of Kilimnik’s discussions with the U.S. government.

And Judge Amy Berman Jackson addressed the issue as well when discussing whether or not Manafort had lied about his interactions with Kilimnik. “Whether Kilimnik is tied to Russian intelligence or he’s not, I think the specific representation by the Office of Special Counsel was that he had been, quote, assessed by the FBI, quote, to have a relationship with Russian intelligence, close quote.”

So why not present the FBI"s case ?

Good question for Mueller on the 17th.

[MDlaxfan76]

Because we know zero about the counterintelligence Investigation. Money streams? Leverage? Not addressed in the report.

And indeed, Mueller may punt the question to the category of "ongoing investigations".

[old salt]

So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

Trump Tower. They attempted to collude with a spy.

You've never gone on record with this: you telling us that you don't care? All the key principles under the direct orders from Trump (obviously), met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary. And of course, we only have the word of those present that no such dirt was offered.

Do you really not have a problem with that? That's ok in your book?

Yes I have -- it was stupid, amateurish, & unethical, ...just like so much that Trump & his campaign did.

Remember when I pointed out that Brennan testified about getting " led down a treasonous path, either wittingly or unwittingly."

If "colluding", you don't do it so openly.

Ok. So if you agree that this stuff happened....attempted collusion...then why are you so mad at our Intel for investigating these idiots? Just a few posts up you called them "innocent American citizens". Clearly that's not what they were.

And if you're in the FBI? And you read the internal memo about the Tower meeting. And then the Flynn meeting followed by his lie not just to the FBI, but to Pence? You're telling me you're not just a tad freaked out?

All of this, as I said from the start, is Occam's Razor. You are vilifying people for doing their jobs. As for the leaks? Easy ethical explanation: the FBI works for Trump. illegal? Yep. Should they to to jail? Yep. But it was, imho, an ethical move. As I have said dozens of times now, our Constitution isn't set up for these shenanigans. Trump put Comey and the FBI between the same rock and a hard place that the idiot Hillary did. So mistakes happened. Lines were crossed.

And think about who those leaks were targeted to.... they weren't targeted at me. I don't need a memo to understand Trump and his idiots are corrupt POS's. They were targeted at YOU, as well as FoxNation. Imagine their horror when they found out that you and FoxNation didn't care. Not even a little.

Yeah sure they were all Boy Scouts. ...that's why they systematically leaked to the MSM to undermine Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency.

[old salt]

Because we know zero about the counterintelligence Investigation. Money streams? Leverage? Not addressed in the report.

And indeed, Mueller may punt the question to the category of "ongoing investigations".

...and, and, and. Anything to keep the drumbeat going until the next election.

[Trinity]

Answer subpoenas. Show your work. Sit for interviews.

[MDlaxfan76]

So what ? Despite your "alarm", Mueller established no conspiracy with the Trump campaign.

Trump Tower. They attempted to collude with a spy.

You've never gone on record with this: you telling us that you don't care? All the key principles under the direct orders from Trump (obviously), met with a Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary. And of course, we only have the word of those present that no such dirt was offered.

Do you really not have a problem with that? That's ok in your book?

Yes I have -- it was stupid, amateurish, & unethical, ...just like so much that Trump & his campaign did.

Remember when I pointed out that Brennan testified about getting " led down a treasonous path, either wittingly or unwittingly."

If "colluding", you don't do it so openly.

Ok. So if you agree that this stuff happened....attempted collusion...then why are you so mad at our Intel for investigating these idiots? Just a few posts up you called them "innocent American citizens". Clearly that's not what they were.

And if you're in the FBI? And you read the internal memo about the Tower meeting. And then the Flynn meeting followed by his lie not just to the FBI, but to Pence? You're telling me you're not just a tad freaked out?

All of this, as I said from the start, is Occam's Razor. You are vilifying people for doing their jobs. As for the leaks? Easy ethical explanation: the FBI works for Trump. illegal? Yep. Should they to to jail? Yep. But it was, imho, an ethical move. As I have said dozens of times now, our Constitution isn't set up for these shenanigans. Trump put Comey and the FBI between the same rock and a hard place that the idiot Hillary did. So mistakes happened. Lines were crossed.

And think about who those leaks were targeted to.... they weren't targeted at me. I don't need a memo to understand Trump and his idiots are corrupt POS's. They were targeted at YOU, as well as FoxNation. Imagine their horror when they found out that you and FoxNation didn't care. Not even a little.

Yeah sure they were all Boy Scouts. ...that's why they systematically leaked to the MSM to undermine Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency.

SAD.
Folks doing their freaking jobs know that the new POTUS is a corrupt, lying POS, in suspected cahoots with a foreign adversary...and we call them doing everything in their power to address the challenge of that reality, "undermine Trump's campaign, transition & Presidency" ...as opposed to protecting the USA, doing their jobs.

If someone leaked illegally, knowing that they could not, would not, be heard up the chain of command by those now in office, that's a choice to subject oneself to punishment. But it may well be the right thing to do ethically.

It will be interesting to look back 10 years from now.

[MDlaxfan76]

Because we know zero about the counterintelligence Investigation. Money streams? Leverage? Not addressed in the report.

And indeed, Mueller may punt the question to the category of "ongoing investigations".

...and, and, and. Anything to keep the drumbeat going until the next election.

Right, that's the most logical reason he'd punt the question.