old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
The truly concerning fact is that the acquisition of firearms and ammo is not restricted to the far right. Potential is there to make the Civil War look like a cakewalk.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 8:32 pm
by youthathletics
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:01 pm
no, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Is that not how the USA has essentially dealt with all conflicts since our inception. It's the very reason we are even here. And as afan noted in the thread with the video from those at a Trump rally who are fed up with damned near all politicians; who are either a cheat or a liar and when they are not kissing babies, they are stealing their lolli-pops.
Not sure it will ever change, but you have a valid point....I do not think it will get to the point you think it might; unless you have your way.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 7:01 pm
no, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Is that not how the USA has essentially dealt with all conflicts since our inception. It's the very reason we are even here. And as afan noted in the thread with the video from those at a Trump rally who are fed up with damned near all politicians; who are either a cheat or a liar and when they are not kissing babies, they are stealing their lolli-pops.
Not sure it will ever change, but you have a valid point....I do not think it will get to the point you think it might; unless you have your way.
trust me, the opposite of "my way".
What I want is for both parties to equally condemn violent rhetoric from their politicians, especially those at the pinnacle of power or competing for power, and to reject extremism of any sort.
I want to see political moderation and compromise prevail, while moving the country forward not backwards in terms of civil liberties and advancement in opportunities across the board.
I want us to return to friendships across political divides.
I want the gun culture to get dramatically ratcheted back, to one in which the emphasis is on doing some hunting and not a heck of a lot more than that. Way less solving disputes with a gun, way less suicides.
I want to see us invest in the future.
That's "my way". I guess it makes me a RINO to some, a flaming liberal to others, and a mealy mouthed conservative to others still...ahh well, it ain't civil war.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2023 11:33 pm
by NattyBohChamps04
Unfortunately we have a lot of historic examples of what happens when people like Trump get into power legally. Especially if it's a second time, usually illegally.
The violence has already happened from one side.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
BLM and Antifa had nothing to do with election outcomes.
Forgot the poll question so soon after telling me to pay attention to the poll?
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Remind us: which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence when they didn't get the election result they wanted?
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
BLM and Antifa had nothing to do with election outcomes.
Forgot the poll question so soon after telling me to pay attention to the poll?
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Remind us: which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence when they didn't get the election result they wanted?
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
So you think that the BLM & ANTIFA riots were not political violence,
or they were not an indicator of the left's propensity to resort to political violence ?
How long was the Fed Court House in Portland under siege ?
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
Is there equal evidence of BLM starting the Jan 6th "peaceful protest"?
A masked, umbrella-wielding man accused of helping incite riots and looting in the aftermath of George Floyd's police-involved death has been identified as a member of a white supremacist group that aimed to stir racial tensions amid largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protests, according to police.
The 32-year-old, dubbed "Umbrella Man," was captured in a viral video back in May wearing a black hooded outfit and a black gas mask as he smashed store windows with a sledgehammer and encouraged people to steal, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week.
His actions quickly led to the first of several arson fires that police say transformed peaceful protests into local danger zones, the affidavit said. He's also accused of spray painting the words "free s--- for everyone zone" on the doors of an AutoZone before he allegedly smashed in the windows. The store was broken into and set on fire shortly after, the affidavit said.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
BLM and Antifa had nothing to do with election outcomes.
Forgot the poll question so soon after telling me to pay attention to the poll?
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Remind us: which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence when they didn't get the election result they wanted?
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
So you think that the BLM & ANTIFA riots were not political violence,
or they were not an indicator of the left's propensity to resort to political violence ?
How long was the Fed Court House in Portland under siege ?
The poll/survey wasn't asking about political violence.
I've highlighted above for your recollection.
This was about election outcomes. Who gets to be President.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 11:42 am
by a fan
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:44 am
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Keep on movin' the ol' goalposts.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 15, 2023 3:34 am
Hey MDLF76 -- you worried about political violence ? Look where the threat of violence is coming from.
Estimated number of Americans who agree
the use of force is justified to...
RESTORE TRUMP TO PRESIDENCY ---------------- 6.9 % 18 Million
PREVENT TRUMP FROM BEING PRESIDENT----- 11.6 % 30 Million
Ha... mdlax won't like those facts. Dampens his Aryan/White Nationalist rhetoric/narrative.
Of course, it's all bad/unfortunate from both sides.
not at all. I quite agree that it's not ok, from any direction. It's a big reaction to the expectation of violence from the right.
These folks are expecting to have to fight fascism.
But the numbers still skew at the extremes very much heavily to "great replacement theory", etc nutcases and those who think it's more important to have a "strong leader" than democracy...this is where the greatest threat to American pluralist democracy is coming from.
You're saying this with your tongue in your cheek, right ?
Actually, no, I'm not.
There's been an enormous amount of "permission" for violent rhetoric and actual violent extremism on the hard right and endorsed or at least permitted by what we would assume are mainstream politicians...this has people, including rational people, quite concerned that there will be violence from the right in an effort to gain/maintain control no matter what the vote count says.
And full on fascism if that occurs.
So, I think that's what we're seeing in those numbers. The expectation that there will need to be violence to maintain democracy.
Of course, that would be a horrible prospect and should not be encouraged...but when folks see people buying AR-15's in large #'s and claiming they will "exercise the 2nd" on behalf of Donald Trump, when they see that rhetoric encouraged by front line politicians in the highest offices, both state and federal, (as opposed to extremist nut jobs on the fringes of society), when they see people claiming that they're preparing for "civil war" and a "race war", and when they see a large chunk of people claiming Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election and that violence is appropriate, and a smaller but sizable chunk claiming Donald Trump is actually "the Savior", then it's pretty darn rational to be worried.
Exactly right.
I think that higher number is due to the fact that the far right stormed the US Senate the last time they lost an election.
That said? Both those numbers are scary, and I have no interest in seeing those numbers going up.
Personally? I think all that talking is done now that we get the "F around and find out" big jail sentences from those who stormed the Senate. Folks won't make that same mistake again, and they know Federal buildings are a no-no.
The idiots from Antifa scare me more because of their use of fire. But guns and end of world preppers aren't a whole lot of fun either, so......
Let's hope for more videos where both sides figure out they're getting played against each other, and the working class puts an end to this fake left-right thing, an we get real policy to help them.
Gimme a break. The survey question wasn't about defending anything. It wasn't conditioned upon violence from the right.
It was about resorting to force to prevent Trump from becoming President.
Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted.
Give me a break. It was a poll.
Which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence, OS? But sure, your side is awesome because the poll sez so, and the libs are worse.
BLM & ANTIFA riots.
BLM and Antifa had nothing to do with election outcomes.
Forgot the poll question so soon after telling me to pay attention to the poll?
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Remind us: which side ACTUALLY resorted to violence when they didn't get the election result they wanted?
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
So you think that the BLM & ANTIFA riots were not political violence,
or they were not an indicator of the left's propensity to resort to political violence ?
How long was the Fed Court House in Portland under siege ?
The poll/survey wasn't asking about political violence.
I've highlighted above for your recollection.
This was about election outcomes. Who gets to be President.
No. It was about political violence.
Listen to the interview -- how many times was "political violence" mentioned.
They did not limit it to election outcomes. Those questions were just part of a larger survey.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:44 am
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Keep on movin' the ol' goalposts.
You're moving the goal posts.
Listen to the interview.
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:06 pm
by old salt
CU88a wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:28 am
Is there equal evidence of BLM starting the Jan 6th "peaceful protest"?
A masked, umbrella-wielding man accused of helping incite riots and looting in the aftermath of George Floyd's police-involved death has been identified as a member of a white supremacist group that aimed to stir racial tensions amid largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protests, according to police.
The 32-year-old, dubbed "Umbrella Man," was captured in a viral video back in May wearing a black hooded outfit and a black gas mask as he smashed store windows with a sledgehammer and encouraged people to steal, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week.
His actions quickly led to the first of several arson fires that police say transformed peaceful protests into local danger zones, the affidavit said. He's also accused of spray painting the words "free s--- for everyone zone" on the doors of an AutoZone before he allegedly smashed in the windows. The store was broken into and set on fire shortly after, the affidavit said.
I never posted or implied that BLM & AntiFa had anything to do with Jan 6th.
Neither does the link you posted have anything to do with Jan 6th.
Sure -- the BLM & AntiFa riots drew right wing crazies. Does that surprise you.
Are you claiming that all the looting, arson & property damage was done by right wing imposters ?
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
A masked, umbrella-wielding man accused of helping incite riots and looting in the aftermath of George Floyd's police-involved death has been identified as a member of a white supremacist group that aimed to stir racial tensions amid largely peaceful Black Lives Matter protests, according to police.
The 32-year-old, dubbed "Umbrella Man," was captured in a viral video back in May wearing a black hooded outfit and a black gas mask as he smashed store windows with a sledgehammer and encouraged people to steal, according to a search warrant affidavit filed in court this week.
His actions quickly led to the first of several arson fires that police say transformed peaceful protests into local danger zones, the affidavit said. He's also accused of spray painting the words "free s--- for everyone zone" on the doors of an AutoZone before he allegedly smashed in the windows. The store was broken into and set on fire shortly after, the affidavit said.
I never posted or implied that BLM & AntiFa had anything to do with Jan 6th.
Neither does the link you posted have anything to do with Jan 6th.
Sure -- the BLM & AntiFa riots drew right wing crazies. Does that surprise you.
Are you claiming that all the looting, arson & property damage was done by right wing imposters ?
Did those right wing imposters also take over several square city blocks and declare them sovereign territory? Is that anti American or just a misunderstanding?
Re: January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?
old salt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 16, 2023 3:44 am
Oh, so you're referring solely to post election violence.
The survey said political violence.
Here ya go, YOUR words....."Both questions were asking the respondents if they were willing to resort to force to change the outcome if it was not the result they wanted."
Keep on movin' the ol' goalposts.
You're moving the goal posts.
Listen to the interview.
You're arguing just to argue. I used YOUR words to address YOUR comments....and now that's not good enough.
Give me a break. It was a poll.