W&L must change its name because Lee was a Confederate 160 years ago, Washington was a slave owner 240 years ago; but the same state where W&L resides has a governor who wore blackface and a KKK hood only 30 years ago. The most recent racist is safe though....almost like this isn't about racism.
As is always the case, Peter Brown doesn't know shirt about fork. He's certainly ignorant of history.
Lee took over the presidency of W&L later on in 1865. He served that institution very well and honorably. He also worked to stitch his country back together. Upon accepting the W&L job, he told the Trustees:
"it is the duty of every citizen, in the present condition of the Country, to do all in his power to aid in the restoration of peace and harmony."
He wasn't a Lost Cause-er. He didn't waste his time flying the Confederate Battle Flag like an ignorant redneck. He spent his time on more important things.
Far be it for me (as a Wahoo) to tell W&L what to do. But there's a fine argument to leave the W&L name as it is.
But not for any of the reasons that a gross brainless loser like Peter Brown thinks.
Correct. Lee is not the only, but is certainly a rare and special case. He was a sane leader after his surrender and helped to guide citizens in the south in an honorable fashion. He remained very far above the basest southern passions of the post war era. He was a flawed individual, he did what he did, but very far from how he is sometimes portrayed. A very sad character in the American story. I won't be disposing of my Mort Kunstler Collection.
They are taking a long HARD look at it as we speak....
I know a ton of alumni and their views range from, whatever the name has changed like 5 times already to rage. I suspect the name changes, the writing is on the wall.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
ChairmanOfTheBoard wrote: ↑Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:40 pm
they say BLM wants change... next sentence says:
These changes must be seen in how we recruit students, faculty, staff and administrators––in how we signal to them the need to embrace our community values as a bottom line, non-negotiable condition of enrollment and employment.
then the next sentence says:
As part of the CU community, we must set expectations for living these values as a core set of guidelines for what it means to be anti-racist in all that we do at the university.
There is a LOT packed into that second quote. The prerequisite that one be "anti-racist" in order to be a student at a public university is dangerous, because of how the term "anti-racist" is used. It is one thing to not be racist, the term anti-racist has come to mean a whole lot more. You are naive if you think this is anything other than setting the stage for thought crime as a tool for limiting debate and enforcing a codified viewpoint. The parallels to 1984 are so poignant that it hurts.
BLM, the most radical members, will moderate. They will lose all support if they don't and will become marginalized. They know this. They are already seeing some push back from people who in general support them.
you are more optimistic than I.
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:57 pm1984 has been prevalent since Trump took office. Anyone surprised?
Trump is a lot of things (almost all of them bad), but he is not the one using wrongthink as a weapon to silence dissent.
Not wrong think? Ain’t kneeling the wrong think? Didn’t he use his platform to silence dissent in then NFL?
W&L must change its name because Lee was a Confederate 160 years ago, Washington was a slave owner 240 years ago; but the same state where W&L resides has a governor who wore blackface and a KKK hood only 30 years ago. The most recent racist is safe though....almost like this isn't about racism.
As is always the case, Peter Brown doesn't know shirt about fork. He's certainly ignorant of history.
Lee took over the presidency of W&L later on in 1865. He served that institution very well and honorably. He also worked to stitch his country back together. Upon accepting the W&L job, he told the Trustees:
"it is the duty of every citizen, in the present condition of the Country, to do all in his power to aid in the restoration of peace and harmony."
He wasn't a Lost Cause-er. He didn't waste his time flying the Confederate Battle Flag like an ignorant redneck. He spent his time on more important things.
Far be it for me (as a Wahoo) to tell W&L what to do. But there's a fine argument to leave the W&L name as it is.
But not for any of the reasons that a gross brainless loser like Peter Brown thinks.
Correct. Lee is not the only, but is certainly a rare and special case. He was a sane leader after his surrender and helped to guide citizens in the south in an honorable fashion. He remained very far above the basest southern passions of the post war era. He was a flawed individual, he did what he did, but very far from how he is sometimes portrayed. A very sad character in the American story. I won't be disposing of my Mort Kunstler Collection.
They are taking a long HARD look at it as we speak....
I know a ton of alumni and their views range from, whatever the name has changed like 5 times already to rage. I suspect the name changes, the writing is on the wall.
… not going to lose any sleep over it. There is a pretty good argument for not doing it. There is an equal or stronger argument for doing it. Regardless of the decision, Lee will not be written out of history or lost in any way. I suspect he would actually be amused by all the sturm und drang over this.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
W&L must change its name because Lee was a Confederate 160 years ago, Washington was a slave owner 240 years ago; but the same state where W&L resides has a governor who wore blackface and a KKK hood only 30 years ago. The most recent racist is safe though....almost like this isn't about racism.
As is always the case, Peter Brown doesn't know shirt about fork. He's certainly ignorant of history.
Lee took over the presidency of W&L later on in 1865. He served that institution very well and honorably. He also worked to stitch his country back together. Upon accepting the W&L job, he told the Trustees:
"it is the duty of every citizen, in the present condition of the Country, to do all in his power to aid in the restoration of peace and harmony."
He wasn't a Lost Cause-er. He didn't waste his time flying the Confederate Battle Flag like an ignorant redneck. He spent his time on more important things.
Far be it for me (as a Wahoo) to tell W&L what to do. But there's a fine argument to leave the W&L name as it is.
But not for any of the reasons that a gross brainless loser like Peter Brown thinks.
Correct. Lee is not the only, but is certainly a rare and special case. He was a sane leader after his surrender and helped to guide citizens in the south in an honorable fashion. He remained very far above the basest southern passions of the post war era. He was a flawed individual, he did what he did, but very far from how he is sometimes portrayed. A very sad character in the American story. I won't be disposing of my Mort Kunstler Collection.
They are taking a long HARD look at it as we speak....
I know a ton of alumni and their views range from, whatever the name has changed like 5 times already to rage. I suspect the name changes, the writing is on the wall.
speaking of slippery slopes from a ways back this a.m. cnn spent a good amount of time today pushing jefferson off the ledge and for statues to start coming down. including the memorial. the question was never yay or nay, but how many? tbd.
to have northram still serving in his capacity without at least being neutered by his own party (and maybe he has been... don't know of much he's done since that fiasco), is a slap in the face to virginians. and yeah, not sure how you can blame anyone for shouting hypocrisy. to date, we don't even know whether he was wearing the blackface or was under or just buddies with the guy under the hood. we're all still waiting to line up for ralph's sensitivity tour. maybe it was cancelled after his wife passed around cotton on her own mansion tour a few weeks later. maybe they're still in sensitivity training. just flat out embarrassing all the way around.
any new governor can't come fast enough.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
W&L must change its name because Lee was a Confederate 160 years ago, Washington was a slave owner 240 years ago; but the same state where W&L resides has a governor who wore blackface and a KKK hood only 30 years ago. The most recent racist is safe though....almost like this isn't about racism.
As is always the case, Peter Brown doesn't know shirt about fork. He's certainly ignorant of history.
Lee took over the presidency of W&L later on in 1865. He served that institution very well and honorably. He also worked to stitch his country back together. Upon accepting the W&L job, he told the Trustees:
"it is the duty of every citizen, in the present condition of the Country, to do all in his power to aid in the restoration of peace and harmony."
He wasn't a Lost Cause-er. He didn't waste his time flying the Confederate Battle Flag like an ignorant redneck. He spent his time on more important things.
Far be it for me (as a Wahoo) to tell W&L what to do. But there's a fine argument to leave the W&L name as it is.
But not for any of the reasons that a gross brainless loser like Peter Brown thinks.
Correct. Lee is not the only, but is certainly a rare and special case. He was a sane leader after his surrender and helped to guide citizens in the south in an honorable fashion. He remained very far above the basest southern passions of the post war era. He was a flawed individual, he did what he did, but very far from how he is sometimes portrayed. A very sad character in the American story. I won't be disposing of my Mort Kunstler Collection.
They are taking a long HARD look at it as we speak....
I know a ton of alumni and their views range from, whatever the name has changed like 5 times already to rage. I suspect the name changes, the writing is on the wall.
speaking of slippery slopes from a ways back this a.m. cnn spent a good amount of time today pushing jefferson off the ledge and for statues to start coming down. including the memorial. the question was never yay or nay, but how many? tbd.
to have northram still serving in his capacity without at least being neutered by his own party (and maybe he has been... don't know of much he's done since that fiasco), is a slap in the face to virginians. and yeah, not sure how you can blame anyone for shouting hypocrisy. to date, we don't even know whether he was wearing the blackface or was under or just buddies with the guy under the hood. we're all still waiting to line up for ralph's sensitivity tour. maybe it was cancelled after his wife passed around cotton on her own mansion tour a few weeks later. maybe they're still in sensitivity training. just flat out embarrassing all the way around.
any new governor can't come fast enough.
… like Trump, resign or impeach. Neither are resigning and there are not the votes to convict in impeachment. Maybe if the republican Senate had shown how it was done
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:41 pm
by HooDat
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:01 pm
Could have ended this thread a lot sooner......BTW
I have no understanding of his position on the flag. But there are a lot of people that agree with him. I have known a lot of people who thought/think burning the flag already is against the law....
On the Hill drama, obviously she was not harmed in any way by Trump's temper tantrum. She said "mean things about him"; he said "mean things about her" and her career took off. Sounds familiar... It is almost like Trump is getting together with all these people and saying - "let's get into a public fight and tie a rocket to your career"....
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:16 pm
by ChairmanOfTheBoard
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
but did he rebel against his home country? that seems to be the rule. we already know racism and slavery can be atoned with mea culpas and other good acts.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
I have no understanding of his position on the flag. But there are a lot of people that agree with him. I have known a lot of people who thought/think burning the flag already is against the law....
On the Hill drama, obviously she was not harmed in any way by Trump's temper tantrum. She said "mean things about him"; he said "mean things about her" and her career took off. Sounds familiar... It is almost like Trump is getting together with all these people and saying - "let's get into a public fight and tie a rocket to your career"....
Well, it was, except SCOTUS already ruled it to be political speech and thus protected. Of course, that was that SCOTUS, and with another 4 years of appointments?
I understand your view that Trump's attempt did not actually silence Kaep, but it sure as heck was intimidating to many others, right?
Yes, Trump has a 'right' to his own speech, but if we don't recognize the enormous power vested in the Executive and pretend that it's not on the path of 'wrongthink' when POTUS takes a position and riles up 80 million, including the wing nuts, the 'brown shirts'...
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
I have no understanding of his position on the flag. But there are a lot of people that agree with him. I have known a lot of people who thought/think burning the flag already is against the law....
On the Hill drama, obviously she was not harmed in any way by Trump's temper tantrum. She said "mean things about him"; he said "mean things about her" and her career took off. Sounds familiar... It is almost like Trump is getting together with all these people and saying - "let's get into a public fight and tie a rocket to your career"....
Are all those people you know Presidents of the United States? I was just pointing out the shadow of 1984 didn’t just come up with this “silencing speech”. You agreed.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
but did he rebel against his home country? that seems to be the rule. we already know racism and slavery can be atoned with mea culpas and other good acts.
King led an insurrection?
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:41 am
by DocBarrister
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
but did he rebel against his home country? that seems to be the rule. we already know racism and slavery can be atoned with mea culpas and other good acts.
King led an insurrection?
Should Washington and Lee be named for a man who did this (an 1866 first-hand account of Robert E. Lee’s cruelty):
It has frequently been represented by the friends and admirers of Robert E. Lee, late an officer in the rebel army, that, although a slaveholder, his treatment of his chattels was invariably kind and humane. The subjoined statement, taken from the lips of one of his former slaves, indicates the real character of the man:
My name is Wesley Norris; I was born a slave on the plantation of George Parke Custis; after the death of Mr. Custis, Gen. Lee, who had been made executor of the estate, assumed control of the slaves, in number about seventy; it was the general impression among the slaves of Mr. Custis that on his death they should be forever free; in fact this statement had been made to them by Mr. C. years before; at his death we were informed by Gen. Lee that by the conditions of the will we must remain slaves for five years; I remained with Gen. Lee for about seventeen months, when my sister Mary, a cousin of ours, and I determined to run away, which we did in the year 1859; we had already reached Westminster, in Maryland, on our way to the North, when we were apprehended and thrown into prison, and Gen. Lee notified of our arrest; we remained in prison fifteen days, when we were sent back to Arlington; we were immediately taken before Gen. Lee, who demanded the reason why we ran away; we frankly told him that we considered ourselves free; he then told us he would teach us a lesson we never would forget; he then ordered us to the barn, where, in his presence, we were tied firmly to posts by a Mr. Gwin, our overseer, who was ordered by Gen. Lee to strip us to the waist and give us fifty lashes each, excepting my sister, who received but twenty; we were accordingly stripped to the skin by the overseer, who, however, had sufficient humanity to decline whipping us; accordingly Dick Williams, a county constable, was called in, who gave us the number of lashes ordered; Gen. Lee, in the meantime, stood by, and frequently enjoined Williams to lay it on well, an injunction which he did not fail to heed; not satisfied with simply lacerating our naked flesh, Gen. Lee then ordered the overseer to thoroughly wash our backs with brine, which was done.
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
You mean like Thomas Jefferson, who repeatedly raped his teenaged slave?
DocBarrister
He also wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence, Became President of the United States, Founded the University of Virginia, designed and built Monticello and made the Louisiana Purchase doubling the size of the United States. You?
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:06 am
by jhu72
CU88 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:22 am
79% of computer science grad students in the US are on F1 visas
yup and the majority aren't from non-sh!thole countries. American exceptionalism = hubris. Either live to our advertised ideals or economically fall behind.
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
"The recent pledge of the N.F.L. and its team owners to contribute $250 million over 10 years to fight systematic racism is not enough. Nor is honoring victims of police brutality with helmet decals and jerseys. (Though this is, no doubt, a departure for a league that has routinely sanctioned its players for minor uniform infractions, including fines of $7,000 for untucked shirts.)
The owners must make radical changes. First, they must immediately stop raising money for President Trump. It is impossible to walk in opposite directions at the same time, and supporting the president is the antithesis of supporting the players.
Then, using their vast political connections, the owners must personally lobby for issues that matter to the players’ coalition, like legislation to reform policing.
And they should clean up their own house. The N.F.L. must be committed to hiring more Black head coaches and Black executives. It needs to build a pipeline for junior coaches, who can be promoted to coordinator and play-caller positions, jobs that are essential for promotion to head coach.
There is other work to be done — including by my former team in Washington. Its founder, George Preston Marshall, an avowed segregationist, was the last N.F.L. owner to integrate his team. His statue was finally removed from the front of RFK Stadium, the team’s former home, as was his name from the stadium’s Ring of Honor. But the team has not removed the club’s offensive name, despite decades of opposition from Indigenous people.
Dan Snyder, the team’s current owner, said in a 2013 interview that he would “never change the name.” “It’s that simple,” he said. “NEVER — you can use caps.”
Now the team says it will review whether to change the name. But what additional information does it need? The debate itself deprives our Indigenous brothers and sisters of their humanity, and their voices have been ignored for too long.
While I will enjoy hearing “Lift Every Voice and Sing” during the N.F.L.’s opening week, I will remain skeptical. I want to believe that league officials and team owners finally get it — and I know a number of them do. But as in football, good intentions don’t win games, performance does. Radical change is truly needed. We don’t need any more symbolic gestures. We need the N.F.L. to step up and change a decades-old playbook that has long been out of step with the times."
Re: Race in America - Riots Explode in Minneapolis
Nigel wrote: ↑Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:53 pm
Maybe they could rename it Washington & King? Because, womanizing (and possible abuse) aside, the historical past only matters when it's a white guy.
