Can a D3 team without grad players win the National Title

[laxdad1434]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

Probably not, but they would for a shot at D1. it's done for many sports, wrestling is a big one.

[pcowlax]

Deep I’m assuming you mean players that delayed a year or reset by going to prep school. If that is what you mean I don’t think the impact is nearly the same. A player coming in at 19 instead of 18 isn’t the same as a 4 year trained college player who is now coming back again at 22 or 23 w 4 now a 5th year of weight room and CONFIDENCE . These aren’t bench warmers coming back many are the elite. The reality is what it is. Bottom line is teams that can’t support 5th yr players are going to have to, train, practice and play at an even higher level if they want to win. Use it as motivation

Indeed, that’s who I mean. But not freshmen/sophmores. The ones that are now college senoirs. Age and physical maturity of a 5th year, with 3 full college years and the extra prep year building up to this. Can’t be that far off, no?

For a small group, not that far off at all - especially if they reclassed / repeated at a place like Deerfield, Taft, Hill, etc.
Another year of playing with/against peers headed to the ACC/B10/IVY might be more valuable then running 2nd line or rotating in as a 1st year.

The weight room is a good point - but many years there is a freshman / 1st year @ Salisbury that puts up ridiculous numbers on their weight test.

Not sure if anyone has brought this point up or not.
But many Canadian born players have the option of reclassing without switching schools.
Don't know the specifics - but it sounds like (more often than not) they just elect an extra year of schooling.

So how do we feel about 19/20 year old freshman from Canada that ends up at a D3 (IE. RIT) who have an extra year in school & the Box?

I really don't think its comparable. If, in a fantasy world, you had the same kid and on one path he could take a PG year at Taft and then play 4 years of college ball and be a 23 year old senior and in another path the same kid could do 4 years of high school but then 5 years of college, again being the same 23 years old senior, which version would a coach chose to have. Obviously the one who spent 5 years in college. One spent an extra year running against some peers who will play top level college, the other spent a year actually at that top level college. Its like saying Alabama could beat the Panthers because Alabama has 20 players who will make the NFL. Well, the Panthers whole roster is players who made the NFL. As Hunt said, the only ones who are going to play a 5th year of college are big time players, if you have been on the bench for 4 years you aren't playing a 5th. It is what it is. It is obviously a huge advantage for those schools. When talking about high schools vs high schools, it is obviously a huge advantage for teams that have PGs. Would anyone try to dispute that by trying to parse the ages of players? A college team with a bunch of freshman who played 5 years at a top high school has an advantage over one whose freshman only played 4 years in high school. One with 5th year seniors has an advantage over one without 5th year seniors. One which is near high school hot beds has an advantage over one that isn't.

[Unknown Participant]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

In many cases, those parents see athletic success as the way to get admitted to an elite college as a recruit that would not likely occur without that recruit status for a white kid.

[Laxdds]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

In many cases, those parents see athletic success as the way to get admitted to an elite college as a recruit that would not likely occur without that recruit status for a white kid.

Yes that makes some sense to me. Although, as we have seen from recent events maybe the expense of a degree from an "elite" school is not worth the investment. There was a pretty good article in the WSJ this past Saturday i believe...its worth the read for any parent with kids heading off to school in the next 1-5 years.

[SaltCounty]

Deep I’m assuming you mean players that delayed a year or reset by going to prep school. If that is what you mean I don’t think the impact is nearly the same. A player coming in at 19 instead of 18 isn’t the same as a 4 year trained college player who is now coming back again at 22 or 23 w 4 now a 5th year of weight room and CONFIDENCE . These aren’t bench warmers coming back many are the elite. The reality is what it is. Bottom line is teams that can’t support 5th yr players are going to have to, train, practice and play at an even higher level if they want to win. Use it as motivation

Indeed, that’s who I mean. But not freshmen/sophmores. The ones that are now college senoirs. Age and physical maturity of a 5th year, with 3 full college years and the extra prep year building up to this. Can’t be that far off, no?

For a small group, not that far off at all - especially if they reclassed / repeated at a place like Deerfield, Taft, Hill, etc.
Another year of playing with/against peers headed to the ACC/B10/IVY might be more valuable then running 2nd line or rotating in as a 1st year.

The weight room is a good point - but many years there is a freshman / 1st year @ Salisbury that puts up ridiculous numbers on their weight test.

Not sure if anyone has brought this point up or not.
But many Canadian born players have the option of reclassing without switching schools.
Don't know the specifics - but it sounds like (more often than not) they just elect an extra year of schooling.

So how do we feel about 19/20 year old freshman from Canada that ends up at a D3 (IE. RIT) who have an extra year in school & the Box?

I really don't think its comparable. If, in a fantasy world, you had the same kid and on one path he could take a PG year at Taft and then play 4 years of college ball and be a 23 year old senior and in another path the same kid could do 4 years of high school but then 5 years of college, again being the same 23 years old senior, which version would a coach chose to have. Obviously the one who spent 5 years in college. One spent an extra year running against some peers who will play top level college, the other spent a year actually at that top level college. Its like saying Alabama could beat the Panthers because Alabama has 20 players who will make the NFL. Well, the Panthers whole roster is players who made the NFL. As Hunt said, the only ones who are going to play a 5th year of college are big time players, if you have been on the bench for 4 years you aren't playing a 5th. It is what it is. It is obviously a huge advantage for those schools. When talking about high schools vs high schools, it is obviously a huge advantage for teams that have PGs. Would anyone try to dispute that by trying to parse the ages of players? A college team with a bunch of freshman who played 5 years at a top high school has an advantage over one whose freshman only played 4 years in high school. One with 5th year seniors has an advantage over one without 5th year seniors. One which is near high school hot beds has an advantage over one that isn't.

Hence why I said, for a small group.
Maybe I could have phrased it as, for a few individuals

[shorelax12]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

While a very few may do it for academics, these are kids that did not get the D1 nod yet and still holding out, or kids that reclassed on their club team for the same reason, got the D1 offer and now need to delay college because they committed at the reclassed year. The D3 kids are the former who did not end up getting the D1 offer. As for the parenting part, a lot of parents get sucked into the process and are just as, if not more, irrational than their kids.

[laxdad1434]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

While a very few may do it for academics, these are kids that did not get the D1 nod yet and still holding out, or kids that reclassed on their club team for the same reason, got the D1 offer and now need to delay college because they committed at the reclassed year. The D3 kids are the former who did not end up getting the D1 offer. As for the parenting part, a lot of parents get sucked into the process and are just as, if not more, irrational than their kids.

yep

[Asgot]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

The answer is parents would probably not PG a kid who was going D3 but reclassing happens either after 8th or 9th grade depending on who and where you are so that would be based on potential as opposed to facts.

[Unknown Participant]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

In many cases, those parents see athletic success as the way to get admitted to an elite college as a recruit that would not likely occur without that recruit status for a white kid.

Yes that makes some sense to me. Although, as we have seen from recent events maybe the expense of a degree from an "elite" school is not worth the investment. There was a pretty good article in the WSJ this past Saturday i believe...its worth the read for any parent with kids heading off to school in the next 1-5 years.

Okay, but parents don't always think that way.

[justanotherperson]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

I feel like, as usual, the answer is more nunanced depending on the situation and the individual circumstance why people take an extra year as I think PG is different from Reclassifying

PG - it doesnt really help your recruiting as the spring lacrosse season usually happens AFTER everyone has found out where they are going to college. So students/parents PG usually for 2 valid a 3rd not as valid reasons:
1) They already have a commitment and the college needs to stash them somewhere for a year instead of taking them on as freshman. Sometimes this is for roster reasons, improve grades or improve lax-wise. Usually happens with D1 and not 2 or 3
2) They happen to play lax but they are leveraging a PG year to try and get into a 'better' college regardless of lax (ie 'success in the classroom'). Many of these kids probably end up playing college club ball at a really good school because lax was not dirivng their decision process
3) Finally, an athlete wilil do it because they have the perception that it will help them with recruiting. In reality ,no one should PG for lax reasons if they dont already have a commitment (they should have reclasses-see below) Do they get in somewhere usually? Sure, but probably not much different from if they didnt PG but as was stated, the parents probably got sucked in

Reclass - I feel like, is the way to go if you want to leverage lacrosse to help oneself get into a better school because:
1) you get to play 1 or more years against younger competition and theortically 'look better'
2) this will help with regards to the recruiting cycle as you will recruit with that younger year (as opposed to PG where the season happens after the fact)
3) kids/parents will then be able to use this extra year to leverage using athletics for getting into a better academic school whether it is real or isnt real. We see the success that results from this because many of the top lacrosse college players are reclasses but what we dont see is all the reclassed athletes that dont end up as a top recruit and it didnt work out

In terms of the cost. None of it makes sense. Not only do you have to pay for an extra year of education you are also deferring being a working stiff for a year as well But then again, this is lacrosse and cost has never been front and center as a concern when it comes to recruiting.

[laxdad1434]

Just my opinion....Why would any parent encourage/allow a student to delay matriculating into college, to better their chance at success on the D3 lacrosse field? Seems nuts to me, maybe I don't understand the process as discussed above, i.e. "reclassify" "PG year".

If they are doing it to increase the chance of success in the classroom, I can understand that.

I feel like, as usual, the answer is more nunanced depending on the situation and the individual circumstance why people take an extra year as I think PG is different from Reclassifying

PG - it doesnt really help your recruiting as the spring lacrosse season usually happens AFTER everyone has found out where they are going to college. So students/parents PG usually for 2 valid a 3rd not as valid reasons:
1) They already have a commitment and the college needs to stash them somewhere for a year instead of taking them on as freshman. Sometimes this is for roster reasons, improve grades or improve lax-wise. Usually happens with D1 and not 2 or 3
2) They happen to play lax but they are leveraging a PG year to try and get into a 'better' college regardless of lax (ie 'success in the classroom'). Many of these kids probably end up playing college club ball at a really good school because lax was not dirivng their decision process
3) Finally, an athlete wilil do it because they have the perception that it will help them with recruiting. In reality ,no one should PG for lax reasons if they dont already have a commitment (they should have reclasses-see below) Do they get in somewhere usually? Sure, but probably not much different from if they didnt PG but as was stated, the parents probably got sucked in

Reclass - I feel like, is the way to go if you want to leverage lacrosse to help oneself get into a better school because:
1) you get to play 1 or more years against younger competition and theortically 'look better'
2) this will help with regards to the recruiting cycle as you will recruit with that younger year (as opposed to PG where the season happens after the fact)
3) kids/parents will then be able to use this extra year to leverage using athletics for getting into a better academic school whether it is real or isnt real. We see the success that results from this because many of the top lacrosse college players are reclasses but what we dont see is all the reclassed athletes that dont end up as a top recruit and it didnt work out

In terms of the cost. None of it makes sense. Not only do you have to pay for an extra year of education you are also deferring being a working stiff for a year as well But then again, this is lacrosse and cost has never been front and center as a concern when it comes to recruiting.

It all comes down to the athletic/academic accomplishments of the kid. You can hold a kid back 2X, doesn't mean they're going anywhere. As far as cost, it doesn't cost much if the kid is held back in 5/6 grade before middle school. It also lessens the stigma of being held back, and they don't get as much pushback from the school at that age. I know families that have gone that route, particularly wrestling families. Again, the kids aren't going anywhere if they can't play, no matter what the sport is.

Parents can be delusional, its sad.

[OSVAlacrosse]

Another question which is somewhat related. Is a roster of 60+ players hurt the team in the long run? Hard to get reps for the freshman.

[Dehuntshigwa’es]

Not sure how this relates to fifth year players winning titles but large rosters hasn’t hurt Salisbury they are at about 53 , W&L 57 , Tufts 58. Who is over 60 other than Stevenson close to 70.

[Nosey Ned]

Another question which is somewhat related. Is a roster of 60+ players hurt the team in the long run? Hard to get reps for the freshman.

I’m not sure about the damage it causes to a team’s run for a Championship directly but indirectly I have to believe it hurts team chemistry. If I’m not mistaken a coach bus holds about 54 people so if you leave room for coaches and trainers that gives you about 48-49 seats on the bus. Meaning you now have to have a travel team and a home team. No team is bringing 2 buses on the road. Much like we blast the NCAA for leaving players off tournament rosters, we should blast coaches for having to leave kids home for away games. We all know, most of the longest lasting memories with your teammates happen on the bus, in the hotel or at a team meal - probably on the 1week Spring Break trip. So as a player (or parent of a player) I would want no part of a 60-70 man roster.

[OSVAlacrosse]

Not sure how this relates to fifth year players winning titles but large rosters hasn’t hurt Salisbury they are at about 53 , W&L 57 , Tufts 58. Who is over 60 other than Stevenson close to 70.

I just looked at CNU roster and I think they are just over 60

[Unknown Participant]

Another question which is somewhat related. Is a roster of 60+ players hurt the team in the long run? Hard to get reps for the freshman.

I’m not sure about the damage it causes to a team’s run for a Championship directly but indirectly I have to believe it hurts team chemistry. If I’m not mistaken a coach bus holds about 54 people so if you leave room for coaches and trainers that gives you about 48-49 seats on the bus. Meaning you now have to have a travel team and a home team. No team is bringing 2 buses on the road. Much like we blast the NCAA for leaving players off tournament rosters, we should blast coaches for having to leave kids home for away games. We all know, most of the longest lasting memories with your teammates happen on the bus, in the hotel or at a team meal - probably on the 1week Spring Break trip. So as a player (or parent of a player) I would want no part of a 60-70 man roster.

One bus and one van for all of Tufts' team/trainers/coaches in 2023. Van was pretty coveted as less noisy and better able to do work. In the Covid year, 2021, Tufts had two buses and a van so the kids could "social distance" on the bus ffs.

[RE6ULATOR]

One bus and one van for all of Tufts' team/trainers/coaches in 2023. Van was pretty coveted as less noisy and better able to do work. In the Covid year, 2021, Tufts had two buses and a van so the kids could "social distance" on the bus ffs.

Slight correction.
*One bus and one van for all Tufts’ Teams/trainers/coaches and coach’s sneakers.*

(Sorry, I had to)

[Unknown Participant]

One bus and one van for all of Tufts' team/trainers/coaches in 2023. Van was pretty coveted as less noisy and better able to do work. In the Covid year, 2021, Tufts had two buses and a van so the kids could "social distance" on the bus ffs.

Slight correction.
*One bus and one van for all Tufts’ Teams/trainers/coaches and coach’s sneakers.*

(Sorry, I had to)

stupid

[laxdad1434]

One bus and one van for all of Tufts' team/trainers/coaches in 2023. Van was pretty coveted as less noisy and better able to do work. In the Covid year, 2021, Tufts had two buses and a van so the kids could "social distance" on the bus ffs.

Slight correction.
*One bus and one van for all Tufts’ Teams/trainers/coaches and coach’s sneakers.*

(Sorry, I had to)

stupid

Agree, having that many sneakers is stupid.

[RE6ULATOR]

One bus and one van for all of Tufts' team/trainers/coaches in 2023. Van was pretty coveted as less noisy and better able to do work. In the Covid year, 2021, Tufts had two buses and a van so the kids could "social distance" on the bus ffs.

Slight correction.
*One bus and one van for all Tufts’ Teams/trainers/coaches and coach’s sneakers.*

(Sorry, I had to)

stupid

Lighten up Francis.