LaxPower Back-Up Stick

laxpert wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:00 pm Will they still be seeding eight and then pairing up the the eight at large based on travel and other indefinite criteria? Some formidable opponents could be in the at large pool. Could we see not only first round upsets but an unseeded team make it to the Final Four weekend?

they seed the top 8 teams as the committee sees it regardless of at large or aq status. the 1 and 2 seeds will likely be playing the play in winners.

after that, the 3 etc. seed probably isn't going to be playing the 9th best team but there's probably a floater on several spots up or down based on flights (or conference affiliation) if needed.

there's only one play in game this year.

jrn19 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:27 pm there's only one play in game this year.

I know that the almighty $ determines this, but it is highly annoying and somewhat absurd that college football has 43 bowl games and an expanded playoff and that there is talk of expanding March Madness to 96(!) teams, but men's lax is limited to 18 teams and 9 at large bids (only 9 conferences with AQs this season by my count).

By my count, there are 9 AQs this season, which may be the reason one play in game was eliminated:

America East
ASUN
A 10
Big East
Big 10
CAA
Ivy
MAAC
Patriot

How difficult would it be for another tournament to be created for the 1st eight out of the NCAA tournament? Could they create a NIT tournament similar to college BB? Would it take a sponsor to fund?

blue angels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am I am no North Carolina fan but looks like the Ivy League, will be awarded more spots than their teams deserve for a 2nd year. I am very confident Princeton and Cornell would get boat raced by the Heels if they played.

You mean the way the Heels "boat raced" Ohio State?

Cornell and Princeton made last year's final four? How many ACC teams did?

Gobigred wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 pm

blue angels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am I am no North Carolina fan but looks like the Ivy League, will be awarded more spots than their teams deserve for a 2nd year. I am very confident Princeton and Cornell would get boat raced by the Heels if they played.

You mean the way the Heels "boat raced" Ohio State?

Cornell and Princeton made last year's final four? How many ACC teams did?

Not sure what that has to do with this year but the tournament picks were pretty darn controversial. Those 2 Ivys were lucky they were there, mainly because they were not in Maryland's bracket. No one was beating Maryland. Let's agree to disagree. I am not impressed by any Ivy's this year. Maybe that changes and maybe it doesn't.

Chousnake wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:18 pm

jrn19 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:27 pm there's only one play in game this year.

I know that the almighty $ determines this, but it is highly annoying and somewhat absurd that college football has 43 bowl games and an expanded playoff and that there is talk of expanding March Madness to 96(!) teams, but men's lax is limited to 18 teams and 9 at large bids (only 9 conferences with AQs this season by my count).

- there are over 360 basketball teams and over 130 football teams. and like 73-75 lax teams.
- lacrosse allows a much higher percentage of teams into "playoffs" than both sports. vs. football, it's comically higher and the bowl games you cite are now exhibitions
- football and basketball pay for all the other sports.
- it's 8 at larges @ present.
- it's soon to be be voted on for all sports to come into a 25% ish zone, consistent with an expansion of march madness. my guess, we go to 10 at larges.

and again, football and basketball pay for everything. with nil, that may change. if anyone's upset now, be prepared for what may be coming.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:27 am

Chousnake wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:18 pm

jrn19 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 10:27 pm there's only one play in game this year.

I know that the almighty $ determines this, but it is highly annoying and somewhat absurd that college football has 43 bowl games and an expanded playoff and that there is talk of expanding March Madness to 96(!) teams, but men's lax is limited to 18 teams and 9 at large bids (only 9 conferences with AQs this season by my count).

- there are over 360 basketball teams and over 130 football teams. and like 73-75 lax teams.
- lacrosse allows a much higher percentage of teams into "playoffs" than both sports. vs. football, it's comically higher and the bowl games you cite are now exhibitions
- football and basketball pay for all the other sports.
- it's 8 at larges @ present.
- it's soon to be be voted on for all sports to come into a 25% ish zone, consistent with an expansion of march madness. my guess, we go to 10 at larges.

and again, football and basketball pay for everything. with nil, that may change. if anyone's upset now, be prepared for what may be coming.

You're right. 17 teams with one play in game, not 18. 9 AQs and 8 at large.....

I understand the economics of the situation. I don't have to like it though.

If they bump it up by two at large,
they go to 3 play ins, which would really be a first round, where everyone else gets a bye.
That’d leave 16 teams - the top 13 rank-ordered teams plus the 3 play-in (1st round) winners - for a ‘round of 16’. The 3 play-in winners play the top 3 seeds.
And then the rest of the bracket as it is now, quarterfinals, semis,
and finals.
ESPN would get the $$ upside.

blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:05 pm

Gobigred wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 pm

blue angels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am I am no North Carolina fan but looks like the Ivy League, will be awarded more spots than their teams deserve for a 2nd year. I am very confident Princeton and Cornell would get boat raced by the Heels if they played.

You mean the way the Heels "boat raced" Ohio State?

Cornell and Princeton made last year's final four? How many ACC teams did?

Not sure what that has to do with this year but the tournament picks were pretty darn controversial. Those 2 Ivys were lucky they were there, mainly because they were not in Maryland's bracket. No one was beating Maryland. Let's agree to disagree. I am not impressed by any Ivy's this year. Maybe that changes and maybe it doesn't.

You brought up last year, not me. Last year was done correctly, despite the whining. The controversy was generated by those who don't understand the criteria. Whom you beat matters.

"Those two Ivies" were in the final four because they beat everyone they had to. Cornell routed two B1G teams and scared the pants off Maryland on Memorial Day. How'd double-upped Virginia look against the Terps in the quarters? Princeton gave 'em a better game in the semis. You need to face reality. The Ivies, collectively, were best last year. This year looks to be different at this point in time, but the NCAAs are still to come.

blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:05 pm

Gobigred wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 pm

blue angels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am I am no North Carolina fan but looks like the Ivy League, will be awarded more spots than their teams deserve for a 2nd year. I am very confident Princeton and Cornell would get boat raced by the Heels if they played.

You mean the way the Heels "boat raced" Ohio State?

Cornell and Princeton made last year's final four? How many ACC teams did?

Not sure what that has to do with this year but the tournament picks were pretty darn controversial. Those 2 Ivys were lucky they were there, mainly because they were not in Maryland's bracket. No one was beating Maryland. Let's agree to disagree. I am not impressed by any Ivy's this year. Maybe that changes and maybe it doesn't.

You brought up last year, not me. Last year was done correctly, despite the whining. The controversy was generated by those who don't understand the criteria. Whom you beat matters.

"Those two Ivies" were in the final four because they beat everyone they had to. Cornell routed two B1G teams and scared the pants off Maryland on Memorial Day. How'd double-upped Virginia look against the Terps in the quarters? Princeton gave 'em a better game in the semis. You need to face reality. The Ivies, collectively, were best last year. This year looks to be different at this point in time, but the NCAAs are still to come.

10stone5 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 4:28 am
ESPN would get the $$ upside.

Know all those "jokes" and "stereotypes" about lacrosse players, from Jon Stewart to the Disney Evil Empire, DEE, which dee lites in lacrosse basement dwelling ?

yeah....THEM/THEY

trust us, they/them, would rather "air" darts or bowling than lacrosse, at ESPN, a star ship destroyer, if NOT the death star itself, such an importance in the Di$ney evil empire.

Nope......lacrosse will be LUCKY to have, in person, live announcers, for ESPN productions.

IMHO espn would drop lacrosse entirely, if NOT for the n$aa, politely nuging those within DEE, that, they, umm...kind of HAVE to air lacrosse.

WON.....[/color][/b]

runrussellrun wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:37 am the lacrosse world would enjoy 3 teams, from both the Patriot and Atlantic 10, in the n$aa's.

certainly TWO, from most other leagues, including aforementioned (AQ plus at large )

Utah and Jacksonville (Bellarmine )

Vermont, Albany or UMBC

Villanova and G-town (Denver)

etc. etc.

Humans will attend, or watch, the Final Four, regardless of WHO is playing.

If not, we need to rethink our product.

Ice hockey, not hoops or football, comparison.

OH......and use an RPI formula that only uses the games you WON.....

classic give an inch and they'll take a mile. conferences have already (15ish yrs ago?) been granted what is now over half the field. and you now want the entire field.

hard pass.

blue angels wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 9:05 pm

Gobigred wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:42 pm

blue angels wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:04 am I am no North Carolina fan but looks like the Ivy League, will be awarded more spots than their teams deserve for a 2nd year. I am very confident Princeton and Cornell would get boat raced by the Heels if they played.

You mean the way the Heels "boat raced" Ohio State?

Cornell and Princeton made last year's final four? How many ACC teams did?

Not sure what that has to do with this year but the tournament picks were pretty darn controversial. Those 2 Ivys were lucky they were there, mainly because they were not in Maryland's bracket. No one was beating Maryland. Let's agree to disagree. I am not impressed by any Ivy's this year. Maybe that changes and maybe it doesn't.

The ACC fanboys just can't get past last season. Unreal. Forget all the years from 2006 through 2021 when the ACC and JHU were given multiple undeserved tourney spots and seeding at the expense of the Ivy League teams and others, mostly for the "good losses" argument and "SOS." I can make a long list of snubs over the years that are far worse or comparable to poor little 2022 Duke and ND. Duke and ND just didn't win OOC games last season and the entire ACC had an off year. Deal with it. And Princeton and Cornell earned their final four (and title game) appearances. Trust me - I can make also make a long list of ACC and former ACC and JHU teams that got very easy paths to Memorial Day weekend.

Relax The ACC has bounced back and now all those inter-conference games will boost RPI as in years past while the rest of the lax world battles for the remaining 3 or 4 at large bids.

Crease Crank wrote: ↑Tue Apr 11, 2023 7:33 pm How difficult would it be for another tournament to be created for the 1st eight out of the NCAA tournament? Could they create a NIT tournament similar to college BB? Would it take a sponsor to fund?

this sounds like gawdawful lacrosse. I would have no interest in watching a bunch of teams playing for 20th place!

Chousnake wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:16 pm The ACC fanboys just can't get past last season.

I am an ACC fanboy and am perfectly fine with how the teams were selected last year. See, what I am not is a Corrigan fanboy

man, this thread has some crazy takes.
all the ivy schools had deserved bids last year, at the very least defensible, by the criteria.

same goes for many of the acc bids over the years. meaning... most all of them unless we're talking a rando or 2.

there is no defense for notre dame not being in last year via the criteria, other than it is now entirely the committee's ball. this is what we are now signed up for. carpe diem. (edit: caveat emptor. i literally know 3 latin phrases, and can't keep them straight.)

pockets of ivy fans (is it fanboys?) have been wailing for years, decades even, about the injustice of it all. for their guys, of course. i feel like i'm in the twilight zone. up is down.

and fans of many stripes have been mocking the notre kavanaughs to a degree that's never happened before. maybe the mods can set up a domer carcaterra thread and he can chip in as well with takes on late winning streaks, acc athletes and kavanaugh backyard trick shots.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:50 pm there is no defense for notre dame not being in last year via the criteria, other than it is now entirely the committee's ball. this is what we are now signed up for.

It has always been entirely the committee's ball. This is not something new. The criteria are guidelines. The committee is free to introduce any additional data into their decision making. For a period of time they stuck to a pretty tight script, to the point that LAF could closely model the expected results, and still there were some surprises. Last years "wins over tournament teams" datapoint suffered from a deep case of circular logic, but we are not in some brave new world.

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:27 am
- there are over 360 basketball teams and over 130 football teams. and like 73-75 lax teams.
- lacrosse allows a much higher percentage of teams into "playoffs" than both sports. vs. football, it's comically higher and the bowl games you cite are now exhibitions
- football and basketball pay for all the other sports.
- it's 8 at larges @ present.
- it's soon to be be voted on for all sports to come into a 25% ish zone, consistent with an expansion of march madness. my guess, we go to 10 at larges.

and again, football and basketball pay for everything. with nil, that may change. if anyone's upset now, be prepared for what may be coming.

I think the disconnect (at least for me) is that we all grew up with basketball as our reference point - where teams with a top 20 ranking are guaranteed of at large bids in the tournament. And then we come to lacrosse, where top 20 teams are regularly left out (along with the occasional top 10 team). Makes the tournament feel too small, even if as a % of DI as a whole, it's actually just about the right size.