Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[MDlaxfan76]

here's an interesting story- from CU Boulder: https://www.legitgov.org/cu-boulder-adm ... s-accepted

Try reading the entire actual memo, instead of right-wing blogs that misleadingly excerpt bits of it:

https://www.colorado.edu/today/newslett ... y-behavior

sheesh, do you guys want Branch Davidian outcome or CHOP outcome?
Make up your minds...

Of course the deaths and rape and destruction are appalling. But they did it to themselves, undermining the whole notion of taking and controlling ground with no civil order.

So, yeah, I approve of how the Seattle police, courts, and mayor handled this problem, given much worse alternatives. No anarchist heroes, no martyrs.

what happened in the last week+, after the 1st shootings and killing (along with other reports), that made the chop patrol less able to guard their flank in the dawn hours?

did they all of a sudden become vulnerable to sleeping in?

it seems the mayor's over/under was 2. yours may have been higher, but whether it was polling or public sentiment, buying in finally to a plan from the local force got greenlit.

Yup, it certainly would appear that the break down of order, killing, rape etc took the moral steam out of the protest. My guess is that made it easier to make the move, both from a public perception that it was justified and inside there may well have been an acceptance of the inevitability. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those protestors were sickened by the breakdown in the internal order and simply left or stood aside.

We'll never know what would have happened with a police assault earlier in this process. Would it have been simple to execute, no sweat, or would it have been met with rage and more violence, spawning even more outbreaks?

sorry, mdlax. you don't get to play what if on this one. only in your mind if you can't come to terms. there are circumstances where that could apply, but not here.

there were several shootings and a killing before this one. same circumstances. same chop army patrolling.

the mayor obviously didn't have a plan at the outset.
tried to negotiate and plea her way out of it, and all that did was drop another body. or 2.

you projecting "2 is enough" by the chop crowd is just that. 2 (or 3) was only enough for the mayor. we know how it turned out, bc it happened.

I'm just not as sure about all this as you seem to be.

We do know what happened. (or at least we mostly know)
No argument, except insofar as this wasn't passive citizens who fell victim to some criminals.
Nope, it was people doing the stupid stuff that people do in mobs.
The perps should be punished.

However, we don't know what would have happened had the police gone in heavy early.

Do you?
You sure it wouldn't have been a blood bath?
Some of these folks were armed.

And then what?

What we also know from how it played out is there were no martyrs.
And this particular sort of 'protest' lost a ton of 'legitimacy' if it ever had any at all. I don't think anyone on here was ever cheering this sort of action on. But much more important than folks like us, it lost legitimacy with fellow protesters. It backfired.

Or at least that's my current take.

[MDlaxfan76]

Remember when the proposed solution to the Confederate statue problem was to move them out of town squares & into museums, where they could be displayed in proper context ?

What Confederate statue repository won't be in jeopardy of being overrun &/or torched by the Woke Mob ?

In jeopardy?

Yes, the failure to get this stuff done for decades has caught fire.

Is it NOW too late?

well, definitely yes if a-holes keep trying claim 'heritage' and keep them in place, won't change names of US military bases named after traitors to the US...

No guarantee that it's not already too late, but sure as shooting' is too late if this drags out with the a-holes getting support from the top.

Fortunately, there are a whole bunch of folks who have their heads screwed on straight and are moving this along. Folks whose daddies might have been on Bull Conner's side back in the day.

Will it be enough? I dunno

But unless this moves fast, the folks in the middle like most of us on this thread will not be able to draw a line and say, 'stop, that's enough'. The rage will just continue.

[kramerica.inc]

No matter what I'm doing, hunting, sporting clays, skeet...

I do best and always come back to my Benelli. Love my SBE2!

Anyone with a competitive bone in their body should love trap shooting. It's such a kick in the pants.

Undoubtedly!
Actually eyeing a Browning BT99 right now, just for trap. A trap-specific gun really helps for that.
Those perfect runs are hard to come by without the right gun. Or at least that's what I tell my wife when she asks me why I need another shotgun...

Kramerica - help us understand what is so special about the Benelli?

I'ts simply built like a tank, and is incredibly durable, accurate and reliable.
It's easy swinging, and light-ER, but has a nice butt-end kick-eeze style system that gives you less felt recoil.
It's a 12GA. But it takes any size 12 GA shell. From 2.75 to 3.5. Even the low power stuff.
It shoots it all and cycles it all. Clean and smooth ejection. Never jams.
It's built to be a waterfowl gun so it can handle the elements, drops, bangs, bruises. The Cryo-coat finish is hard as heck to scratch or damage.
Havent lost mine, but definitely left it in the mud and goop by the blinds and it's fired flawlessly. I haven't lost mine off the boat yet, but others have told me they have dropped theirs out of the boat, submerged, and been able to fire, seamlessly with just a change of ammo.
It also fits me well, so I'm comfy shooting it and know where I'm aiming.
I can do pretty much any sporting games with it consistently with the exception of trap, (at least for me) Best shooting money ever spend, for me.

[Farfromgeneva]

here's an interesting story- from CU Boulder: https://www.legitgov.org/cu-boulder-adm ... s-accepted

CU-Boulder administrators issues memo to staff and students outlining strict policies on 'accepted viewpoints,' a 'non-negotiable' condition of employment
Wed, 07/01/2020 - 20:35 — legitgov
CU-Boulder administrators issues memo to staff and students outlining strict policies on 'accepted viewpoints,' a 'non-negotiable' condition of employment --CU-Boulder says a 'non-negotiable' condition of employment and enrollment is the 'need to embrace our community value.' | 01 July 2020 | In a recent memo sent by University of Colorado-Boulder officials to all students and employees, the university dictated which opinions of the recent waves of Black Lives Matter protests will be accepted by the school... On June 5, 2020, CU Boulder sent a memo to its students and faculty providing a statement on the recent uprisings. The announcement, co-written by Vice Chancellor for Diversity, Equity, and Community Engagement, Vice Chancellor for Student Affairs Akirah Bradley, and Associate Vice Chancellor the Office of Institutional Equity and Compliance and Title IX Coordinator Valerie Simons, described a supporting opinion of Black Lives Matter as a "non-negotiable condition of enrollment and employment." This statement would seem to contradict the university's previous statements on the constitutional right to freedom of speech.

"strict" policies, on "accepted viewpoints". and i thought this higher education thing was supposed to be about sharing ideas and diversity.

speaking of, here's what their mission statement says:

Values
The Colorado Creed
As a member of the Boulder community and the University of Colorado Boulder, I agree to:
Act with honor, integrity and accountability in my interactions with students, faculty, staff, and neighbors.
Respect the rights of others and accept our differences.
Contribute to the greater good of this community.
These values are reinforced by our Inclusive Excellence Initiative. CU Boulder’s identity is defined by respect for diversity and inclusivity.


or even this: https://www.colorado.edu/odece/diversit ... excellence

The University of Colorado Boulder exemplifies excellence through diversity* by:

Creating a welcoming and inclusive environment
Deepening our ability to share and to engage with diverse perspectives
Maximizing the success and inclusion of all students, staff and faculty

it gets a bit worse though-

Engage in Effective Communication: open dialogue, listening and communication, being respectful of each other's unique backgrounds and perspectives. Ensure that key and critical information is shared within the unit and provide timely information across the campus community.

*Diversity and diverse are here meant to include but are not limited to cultural differences, race/ethnicity, color, national origin, sex, pregnancy, age, (dis)ability, creed, religious or spiritual beliefs, sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, class, gender identity, gender expression, veteran status, political affiliation, or political philosophy. Please also refer to Regent Policy 10P.

On higher ed we are squarely in the same page. I find the insular and lack of openness to diversity of thought in general to be the reason so many deserve to and some will fail to maintain what in many cases will be a century or more of existence. Blaming it strictly on demographics, at least in the NE, is a smokescreen for not adding value to the point of higher education in the last 25 years.

[wgdsr]

here's an interesting story- from CU Boulder: https://www.legitgov.org/cu-boulder-adm ... s-accepted

Try reading the entire actual memo, instead of right-wing blogs that misleadingly excerpt bits of it:

https://www.colorado.edu/today/newslett ... y-behavior

sheesh, do you guys want Branch Davidian outcome or CHOP outcome?
Make up your minds...

Of course the deaths and rape and destruction are appalling. But they did it to themselves, undermining the whole notion of taking and controlling ground with no civil order.

So, yeah, I approve of how the Seattle police, courts, and mayor handled this problem, given much worse alternatives. No anarchist heroes, no martyrs.

what happened in the last week+, after the 1st shootings and killing (along with other reports), that made the chop patrol less able to guard their flank in the dawn hours?

did they all of a sudden become vulnerable to sleeping in?

it seems the mayor's over/under was 2. yours may have been higher, but whether it was polling or public sentiment, buying in finally to a plan from the local force got greenlit.

Yup, it certainly would appear that the break down of order, killing, rape etc took the moral steam out of the protest. My guess is that made it easier to make the move, both from a public perception that it was justified and inside there may well have been an acceptance of the inevitability. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those protestors were sickened by the breakdown in the internal order and simply left or stood aside.

We'll never know what would have happened with a police assault earlier in this process. Would it have been simple to execute, no sweat, or would it have been met with rage and more violence, spawning even more outbreaks?

sorry, mdlax. you don't get to play what if on this one. only in your mind if you can't come to terms. there are circumstances where that could apply, but not here.

there were several shootings and a killing before this one. same circumstances. same chop army patrolling.

the mayor obviously didn't have a plan at the outset.
tried to negotiate and plea her way out of it, and all that did was drop another body. or 2.

you projecting "2 is enough" by the chop crowd is just that. 2 (or 3) was only enough for the mayor. we know how it turned out, bc it happened.

I'm just not as sure about all this as you seem to be.

We do know what happened. (or at least we mostly know)
No argument, except insofar as this wasn't passive citizens who fell victim to some criminals.
Nope, it was people doing the stupid stuff that people do in mobs.
The perps should be punished.

However, we don't know what would have happened had the police gone in heavy early.

Do you?
You sure it wouldn't have been a blood bath?
Some of these folks were armed.

And then what?

What we also know from how it played out is there were no martyrs.
And this particular sort of 'protest' lost a ton of 'legitimacy' if it ever had any at all. I don't think anyone on here was ever cheering this sort of action on. But much more important than folks like us, it lost legitimacy with fellow protesters. It backfired.

Or at least that's my current take.

there's a whole lot of things i'd have done differently if i were mayor for a day.

i wouldn't expect a mayor durkan to mirror those actions.

what we are talking about, is the timing of the action that WAS taken. a week late. there is little excuse for that. beyond whatever you feel about alleged rape, assault and destruction, there were multiple shootings and a killing.

time was up. we're not talking about your "heavy early, blood bath" misdirection. they could've taken the exact same action a week earlier, and did not. to me, it's inexcusable. you're good with it. her number was 2 or 3. even after having the option of getting out of there with 1 and then doing the exact same thing they did anyway.

don't agree with the call there at all and don't give her latitude at all for differing approaches after the first. and really can't fathom the mindframe of anyone in hindsight saying... yeah, was probably the way to go.

summer of love indeed.

[CU77]

If as a student you wished to hold a sign out that said 'All Lives Matter', is there even a second's doubt you would be kicked out of school?

Yes, tremendous doubt. In fact, that's simply not going to happen. It would invite a huge lawsuit and negative attention that no school wants, especially not a public school like Colorado.

College presidents and administrators are the most risk-adverse class of people you will ever meet.

Still doesn't seem like anyone has bothered to read the actual memo, which is safe as milk.

[Typical Lax Dad]

sheesh, do you guys want Branch Davidian outcome or CHOP outcome?
Make up your minds...

Of course the deaths and rape and destruction are appalling. But they did it to themselves, undermining the whole notion of taking and controlling ground with no civil order.

So, yeah, I approve of how the Seattle police, courts, and mayor handled this problem, given much worse alternatives. No anarchist heroes, no martyrs.

I am very confused. Are you saying the two young black children of 16 and 14 year old's 'did it to themselves', ie: got murdered because they are, what exactly?

Anyway, as most sentient humans know, any area without law will ultimately fall prey to the worst elements. MD excuses the anarchy of CHOP because it was a Democratic Party movement; he would not have the same generosity of 3 allowable murders had this been, say, Clivedon Bundy.

Hey Bandito....Have a great 4th of July in Jellystone.

[a fan]

Remember when the proposed solution to the Confederate statue problem was to move them out of town squares & into museums, where they could be displayed in proper context ?

If you ask me (and I know you aren't), the moral here is to listen to reasonable people the next time that they make reasonable requests. Then the nut jobs will leave well enough alone.

[youthathletics]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

[youthathletics]

Remember when the proposed solution to the Confederate statue problem was to move them out of town squares & into museums, where they could be displayed in proper context ?

If you ask me (and I know you aren't), the moral here is to listen to reasonable people the next time that they make reasonable requests. Then the nut jobs will leave well enough alone.

Like trying to burn down St.Johns Church?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

[a fan]

Remember when the proposed solution to the Confederate statue problem was to move them out of town squares & into museums, where they could be displayed in proper context ?

If you ask me (and I know you aren't), the moral here is to listen to reasonable people the next time that they make reasonable requests. Then the nut jobs will leave well enough alone.

Like trying to burn down St.Johns Church?

Yep.

[youthathletics]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

It is close to my heart, b/c I do care and see close friends struggling to find their way through this. Just sharing facts from a neutral study of two highly respected schools.

I am helping to just be nice to everyone I encounter. Just today, the UPS driver stopped by and I handed him a drink as I always do with all the delivery drivers. Today we had a different UPS driver, another black man, he said they other guy was on vacation...when I handed him the cold beverage he said... "I appreciate you man and the guy I am covering for said there's this one guy that always hooks me up with drinks...even made me a cheeseburger one evening during the Holiday's when he was grilling outside". It's not hard to be nice and it makes a difference, no?

That wasn't hard to answer a question about what I am doing. I've asked you what we can do at least 3x and all I got was "you are christian figure it out". Maybe you need to soften your heart?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

It is close to my heart, b/c I do care and see close friends struggling to find their way through this. Just sharing facts from a neutral study of two highly respected schools.

I am helping to just be nice to everyone I encounter. Just today, the UPS driver stopped by and I handed him a drink as I always do with all the delivery drivers. Today we had a different UPS driver, another black man, he said they other guy was on vacation...when I handed him the cold beverage he said... "I appreciate you man and the guy I am covering for said there's this one guy that always hooks me up with drinks...even made me a cheeseburger one evening during the Holiday's when he was grilling outside". It's not hard to be nice and it makes a difference, no?

That wasn't hard to answer a question about what I am doing. I've asked you what we can do at least 3x and all I got was "you are christian figure it out". Maybe you need to soften your heart?

What makes you think I have an answer? Ask your pastor if you need guidance.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

https://phys.org/news/2020-01-cautionar ... _TrendMD_1



https://www.pnas.org/content/117/3/1263 ... _TrendMD_0


https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

You didn’t read the footnotes to the article you posted.

[youthathletics]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

It is close to my heart, b/c I do care and see close friends struggling to find their way through this. Just sharing facts from a neutral study of two highly respected schools.

I am helping to just be nice to everyone I encounter. Just today, the UPS driver stopped by and I handed him a drink as I always do with all the delivery drivers. Today we had a different UPS driver, another black man, he said they other guy was on vacation...when I handed him the cold beverage he said... "I appreciate you man and the guy I am covering for said there's this one guy that always hooks me up with drinks...even made me a cheeseburger one evening during the Holiday's when he was grilling outside". It's not hard to be nice and it makes a difference, no?

That wasn't hard to answer a question about what I am doing. I've asked you what we can do at least 3x and all I got was "you are christian figure it out". Maybe you need to soften your heart?

What makes you think I have an answer? Ask your pastor if you need guidance.

I don’t need guidance. I asked you because you post more than everyone else which seems to imply a vested interest, and you are certainly opinionated on danged near every topic...so much so you don’t have issue telling us that you think we are mostly wrong.

Hope you have good weather for the 4th weekend, enjoy.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

It is close to my heart, b/c I do care and see close friends struggling to find their way through this. Just sharing facts from a neutral study of two highly respected schools.

I am helping to just be nice to everyone I encounter. Just today, the UPS driver stopped by and I handed him a drink as I always do with all the delivery drivers. Today we had a different UPS driver, another black man, he said they other guy was on vacation...when I handed him the cold beverage he said... "I appreciate you man and the guy I am covering for said there's this one guy that always hooks me up with drinks...even made me a cheeseburger one evening during the Holiday's when he was grilling outside". It's not hard to be nice and it makes a difference, no?

That wasn't hard to answer a question about what I am doing. I've asked you what we can do at least 3x and all I got was "you are christian figure it out". Maybe you need to soften your heart?

What makes you think I have an answer? Ask your pastor if you need guidance.

I don’t need guidance. I asked you because you post more than everyone else which seems to imply a vested interest, and you are certainly opinionated on danged near every topic...so much so you don’t have issue telling us that you think we are mostly wrong.

Hope you have good weather for the 4th weekend, enjoy.

You have more of an interest than I do. Go back and read my posts. Happy Independence Day....if you are seeking answers just remember W.W.J.D. That should help.

[jhu72]

If as a student you wished to hold a sign out that said 'All Lives Matter', is there even a second's doubt you would be kicked out of school?

Yes, tremendous doubt. In fact, that's simply not going to happen. It would invite a huge lawsuit and negative attention that no school wants, especially not a public school like Colorado.

College presidents and administrators are the most risk-adverse class of people you will ever meet.

Still doesn't seem like anyone has bothered to read the actual memo, which is safe as milk.

… then you haven't met my lawyer. If I took his advice, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning.

[CU77]

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

I wish you would stop getting false info from right-wing blogs.

That MSU professor (whom I've met a couple of times) is still a tenured professor of physics at MSU. The job he resigned from is Vice Chancellor of Research, a high-level administrative post that requires quite significant management and political skills. In the past couple of years, he had made a series of totally bone-headed moves, including being interviewed on a podcast of a known supporter of white supremicists without pushing back on that in any way. I think he's a good guy at heart, but he blunders into situations without thinking, and without understanding that with that administrative job he acted as a face and voice of the university, and not just himself. My advice to him would have been to resign from the administrative position, and I was glad when he did. I would not want him in that position at my university. His political skills are far far below what's needed for that job.

[old salt]

Officer characteristics and racial disparities in fatal officer-involved shootings

We find no evidence of anti-Black or anti-Hispanic disparities across shootings, and White officers are not more likely to shoot minority civilians than non-White officers. Instead, race-specific crime strongly predicts civilian race. This suggests that increasing diversity among officers by itself is unlikely to reduce racial disparity in police shootings.

Nice to see that MSU forced out a professor of Physics, that also referenced the slave trading Harvard study., that shows no bias.

Seems to be an issue close to your heart.....you spend a lot of time on the topic. What are you doing to help?

It is close to my heart, b/c I do care and see close friends struggling to find their way through this. Just sharing facts from a neutral study of two highly respected schools.

I am helping to just be nice to everyone I encounter. Just today, the UPS driver stopped by and I handed him a drink as I always do with all the delivery drivers. Today we had a different UPS driver, another black man, he said they other guy was on vacation...when I handed him the cold beverage he said... "I appreciate you man and the guy I am covering for said there's this one guy that always hooks me up with drinks...even made me a cheeseburger one evening during the Holiday's when he was grilling outside". It's not hard to be nice and it makes a difference, no?

That wasn't hard to answer a question about what I am doing. I've asked you what we can do at least 3x and all I got was "you are christian figure it out". Maybe you need to soften your heart?

Tues evening at the dog park, just before dusk, all the other dogs had departed. A young couple arrived with their 2 daughters & 2 dogs. Dad stayed outside the fence with one dog, a pittie who was an inveterate humper. I assured him it was ok, my guys could handle it -- they just consider it a wrestling move. They cautiously came in & between the two of us, we made it work & restrained his dog when necessary. It was their first visit to this park, having recently moved up from SoMd. He told me the dog had been chained in his neighbors yard for a couple years then abandoned when the previous owner moved away. This family took him in. They're training & socializing him. I told him about an electric acoustic /shock collar which I use to train foster dogs who are humpers. His wife immediately used her smart phone to locate one & order it. He was looking for a vet now back open to neuter the pittie. I told him how to contact our well pet clinic. My dogs & I made some new friends. I didn't think of it until now, they happen to be black (the people, not the dogs).