LaxPower Back-Up Stick

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 pm Dems in Congress want a standing, full time, 24/7 DC National Guard Quick Reaction Force, which would be a component of the DC Air National Guard, based at Joint Base Andrews. It would be Airmen trained as riot police. They could name it the Ashli Babbit Brigade in memory of their best known alum, who was lost on Jan 6th.

This is a bad idea & a perversion of the mission of the National Guard, for so many reasons, including those addressed in this article :
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/c ... -bad-idea/

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:58 pm White Rage ...in the military, to boot.

Yep. It all makes sense now. The new emerging narrative => the Jan 6th insurrection was a manifestation of White Rage.

Not surprising, when you think about it. What is surprising is that our senior military officer, who publicly scolded himself for appearing political, would be the advance element in rolling out this new narrative. Irony abounds.

Since when is this a 'new narrative'???

Immediately when it happened, there was lots of attention to the whiteness of the mob and most particularly to the side by side waving of Confederate flags, the Auschswitz t-shirt, the QAnon shirts and banners, alongside the Trump and American flags as if all were one and the same, one huge happy family of insurrectionists. And then attention to various white supremacist groups in the vanguard.

So, yeah 'white rage' noted at the outset.

You yourself argued that the high percentage of the ex-military in the early arrested group was not likely reflective of the total rioters and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of anything, but there were concerns being expressed even then that there was an overlap in recruitment of veterans by the white supremacist/militia groups and as well that there had been expressed strategies by these groups to recruit active service members as well...you objected. All of that was in the immediate aftermath.

The concern early on (and still now) is that we were very, very close to a successful insurrection, actually supported by the military on the order of the outgoing President. We now learn that Trump was furious with Milley for not supporting this effort, just as he was furious with Barr for refuting the Big Lie. Screaming mad...how close were we? close.

So, understanding this 'white rage' and how it manifests is very serious business.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:58 pm White Rage ...in the military, to boot.

Yep. It all makes sense now. The new emerging narrative => the Jan 6th insurrection was a manifestation of White Rage.

Not surprising, when you think about it. What is surprising is that our senior military officer, who publicly scolded himself for appearing political, would be the advance element in rolling out this new narrative. Irony abounds.

Since when is this a 'new narrative'???

Immediately when it happened, there was lots of attention to the whiteness of the mob and most particularly to the side by side waving of Confederate flags, the Auschswitz t-shirt, the QAnon shirts and banners, alongside the Trump and American flags as if all were one and the same, one huge happy family of insurrectionists. And then attention to various white supremacist groups in the vanguard.

So, yeah 'white rage' noted at the outset.

You yourself argued that the high percentage of the ex-military in the early arrested group was not likely reflective of the total rioters and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of anything, but there were concerns being expressed even then that there was an overlap in recruitment of veterans by the white supremacist/militia groups and as well that there had been expressed strategies by these groups to recruit active service members as well...you objected. All of that was in the immediate aftermath.

The concern early on (and still now) is that we were very, very close to a successful insurrection, actually supported by the military on the order of the outgoing President. We now learn that Trump was furious with Milley for not supporting this effort, just as he was furious with Barr for refuting the Big Lie. Screaming mad...how close were we? close.

So, understanding this 'white rage' and how it manifests is very serious business.

The emergence of the term = White Rage. That is new.

We were never close to an insurrection supported by the military. Esper & Milley artfully arranged for the deployment of the National Guard to help maintain civil order, in DC & other cities. That is entirely appropriate, is part of the Guard's basic mission & reason for existence, & has been deployed numerous times, as it was on Jan 6th, despite the unrealistic expectation of the Guard's reaction time.

The vets who have been identified, so far, as insurrectionists, are a joke. Social media, wannabe, Rambos.
Troubled nuts like Ashli Babbitt & Jess Watkins & delusional retired old farts

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:58 pm White Rage ...in the military, to boot.

Yep. It all makes sense now. The new emerging narrative => the Jan 6th insurrection was a manifestation of White Rage.

Not surprising, when you think about it. What is surprising is that our senior military officer, who publicly scolded himself for appearing political, would be the advance element in rolling out this new narrative. Irony abounds.

Since when is this a 'new narrative'???

Immediately when it happened, there was lots of attention to the whiteness of the mob and most particularly to the side by side waving of Confederate flags, the Auschswitz t-shirt, the QAnon shirts and banners, alongside the Trump and American flags as if all were one and the same, one huge happy family of insurrectionists. And then attention to various white supremacist groups in the vanguard.

So, yeah 'white rage' noted at the outset.

You yourself argued that the high percentage of the ex-military in the early arrested group was not likely reflective of the total rioters and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of anything, but there were concerns being expressed even then that there was an overlap in recruitment of veterans by the white supremacist/militia groups and as well that there had been expressed strategies by these groups to recruit active service members as well...you objected. All of that was in the immediate aftermath.

The concern early on (and still now) is that we were very, very close to a successful insurrection, actually supported by the military on the order of the outgoing President. We now learn that Trump was furious with Milley for not supporting this effort, just as he was furious with Barr for refuting the Big Lie. Screaming mad...how close were we? close.

So, understanding this 'white rage' and how it manifests is very serious business.

The emergence of the term = White Rage. That is new.

We were never close to an insurrection supported by the military. Esper & Milley artfully arranged for the deployment of the National Guard to help maintain civil order, in DC & other cities. That is entirely appropriate, is part of the Guard's basic mission & reason for existence, & has been deployed numerous times, as it was on Jan 6th, despite the unrealistic expectation of the Guard's reaction time.

The vets who have been identified, so far, as insurrectionists, are a joke. Social media, wannabe, Rambos.
Troubled nuts like Ashli Babbitt & Jess Watkins & delusional retired old farts

Nope, here's Jan 7:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/vin ... e-n1253292

And here's Jan 27, an interview with the person who coined the term a few years earlier in a book on the subject and how it pertains to Jan 6.

https://www.vox.com/22243875/white-rage ... ationalism

Maybe you should take Milley's counsel and be better read.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:24 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:58 pm White Rage ...in the military, to boot.

Yep. It all makes sense now. The new emerging narrative => the Jan 6th insurrection was a manifestation of White Rage.

Not surprising, when you think about it. What is surprising is that our senior military officer, who publicly scolded himself for appearing political, would be the advance element in rolling out this new narrative. Irony abounds.

Since when is this a 'new narrative'???

Immediately when it happened, there was lots of attention to the whiteness of the mob and most particularly to the side by side waving of Confederate flags, the Auschswitz t-shirt, the QAnon shirts and banners, alongside the Trump and American flags as if all were one and the same, one huge happy family of insurrectionists. And then attention to various white supremacist groups in the vanguard.

So, yeah 'white rage' noted at the outset.

You yourself argued that the high percentage of the ex-military in the early arrested group was not likely reflective of the total rioters and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of anything, but there were concerns being expressed even then that there was an overlap in recruitment of veterans by the white supremacist/militia groups and as well that there had been expressed strategies by these groups to recruit active service members as well...you objected. All of that was in the immediate aftermath.

The concern early on (and still now) is that we were very, very close to a successful insurrection, actually supported by the military on the order of the outgoing President. We now learn that Trump was furious with Milley for not supporting this effort, just as he was furious with Barr for refuting the Big Lie. Screaming mad...how close were we? close.

So, understanding this 'white rage' and how it manifests is very serious business.

The emergence of the term = White Rage. That is new.

We were never close to an insurrection supported by the military. Esper & Milley artfully arranged for the deployment of the National Guard to help maintain civil order, in DC & other cities. That is entirely appropriate, is part of the Guard's basic mission & reason for existence, & has been deployed numerous times, as it was on Jan 6th, despite the unrealistic expectation of the Guard's reaction time.

The vets who have been identified, so far, as insurrectionists, are a joke. Social media, wannabe, Rambos.
Troubled nuts like Ashli Babbitt & Jess Watkins & delusional retired old farts

Nope, here's Jan 7:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/vin ... e-n1253292

And here's Jan 27, an interview with the person who coined the term a few years earlier in a book on the subject and how it pertains to Jan 6.

https://www.vox.com/22243875/white-rage ... ationalism

Maybe you should take Milley's counsel and be better read.

Be honest. "White Rage" was not widely used before Milley's testimony before Congress went viral.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:08 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 pm Dems in Congress want a standing, full time, 24/7 DC National Guard Quick Reaction Force, which would be a component of the DC Air National Guard, based at Joint Base Andrews. It would be Airmen trained as riot police. They could name it the Ashli Babbit Brigade in memory of their best known alum, who was lost on Jan 6th.

This is a bad idea & a perversion of the mission of the National Guard, for so many reasons, including those addressed in this article :
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/c ... -bad-idea/

On this one, I think I agree and for much the same reasons.

That said, I want to see DC be a state and the Governor/Mayor to have the same authorities with the NG as any other Governor. In the meantime, there needs to be far more funding to the DC government and to the Capitol Police for the capabilities necessary for defense of the Capitol, including such capabilities as described by this "Quick Reaction" force. Probably not though a NG unit though.

What would you recommend, Salty, given your understanding of the ins and outs of the military, the special requirements of the Capitol, and our recent experiences with an internal insurrection? How do we defend in the event that next time is more organized and is heavily armed? Serious question.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:34 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:24 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:20 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:14 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:00 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 5:39 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Fri Jun 25, 2021 10:58 pm White Rage ...in the military, to boot.

Yep. It all makes sense now. The new emerging narrative => the Jan 6th insurrection was a manifestation of White Rage.

Not surprising, when you think about it. What is surprising is that our senior military officer, who publicly scolded himself for appearing political, would be the advance element in rolling out this new narrative. Irony abounds.

Since when is this a 'new narrative'???

Immediately when it happened, there was lots of attention to the whiteness of the mob and most particularly to the side by side waving of Confederate flags, the Auschswitz t-shirt, the QAnon shirts and banners, alongside the Trump and American flags as if all were one and the same, one huge happy family of insurrectionists. And then attention to various white supremacist groups in the vanguard.

So, yeah 'white rage' noted at the outset.

You yourself argued that the high percentage of the ex-military in the early arrested group was not likely reflective of the total rioters and shouldn't be seen as an indicator of anything, but there were concerns being expressed even then that there was an overlap in recruitment of veterans by the white supremacist/militia groups and as well that there had been expressed strategies by these groups to recruit active service members as well...you objected. All of that was in the immediate aftermath.

The concern early on (and still now) is that we were very, very close to a successful insurrection, actually supported by the military on the order of the outgoing President. We now learn that Trump was furious with Milley for not supporting this effort, just as he was furious with Barr for refuting the Big Lie. Screaming mad...how close were we? close.

So, understanding this 'white rage' and how it manifests is very serious business.

The emergence of the term = White Rage. That is new.

We were never close to an insurrection supported by the military. Esper & Milley artfully arranged for the deployment of the National Guard to help maintain civil order, in DC & other cities. That is entirely appropriate, is part of the Guard's basic mission & reason for existence, & has been deployed numerous times, as it was on Jan 6th, despite the unrealistic expectation of the Guard's reaction time.

The vets who have been identified, so far, as insurrectionists, are a joke. Social media, wannabe, Rambos.
Troubled nuts like Ashli Babbitt & Jess Watkins & delusional retired old farts

Nope, here's Jan 7:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/vin ... e-n1253292

And here's Jan 27, an interview with the person who coined the term a few years earlier in a book on the subject and how it pertains to Jan 6.

https://www.vox.com/22243875/white-rage ... ationalism

Maybe you should take Milley's counsel and be better read.

Be honest. "White Rage" was not widely used before Milley's testimony before Congress went viral.

"Be honest"...that's one of many times you've impugned my integrity.

Read the damn links.
Jan 7, day after. Major story. White Rage.

Do you think Milley pulled it out of his ass?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:20 pm It’s really small to portray a term as the only representation of the concept when we all have discussed this going back a year or more. Who cares what it’s coined, that’s just marketing, the discussion regarding the aging majority minority (or whichever is better being first of old white males) has been open and on the table for a while. It would be dishonest to pretend like the concept only evolves once the term was created regardless of when that was. That’s backwards thinking.

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:20 pm It’s really small to portray a term as the only representation of the concept when we all have discussed this going back a year or more. Who cares what it’s coined, that’s just marketing, the discussion regarding the aging majority minority (or whichever is better being first of old white males) has been open and on the table for a while. It would be dishonest to pretend like the concept only evolves once the term was created regardless of when that was. That’s backwards thinking.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:08 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 pm Dems in Congress want a standing, full time, 24/7 DC National Guard Quick Reaction Force, which would be a component of the DC Air National Guard, based at Joint Base Andrews. It would be Airmen trained as riot police. They could name it the Ashli Babbit Brigade in memory of their best known alum, who was lost on Jan 6th.

This is a bad idea & a perversion of the mission of the National Guard, for so many reasons, including those addressed in this article :
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/c ... -bad-idea/

On this one, I think I agree and for much the same reasons.

That said, I want to see DC be a state and the Governor/Mayor to have the same authorities with the NG as any other Governor. In the meantime, there needs to be far more funding to the DC government and to the Capitol Police for the capabilities necessary for defense of the Capitol, including such capabilities as described by this "Quick Reaction" force. Probably not though a NG unit though.

What would you recommend, Salty, given your understanding of the ins and outs of the military, the special requirements of the Capitol, and our recent experiences with an internal insurrection? How do we defend in the event that next time is more organized and is heavily armed? Serious question.

Under no circumstances would I give Title 32 authority to the DC Mayor. That is a power reserved for state Governors & in DC, for the President, delegated to SecDef & Sec of the Army.

imho -- the full time QRF should be sworn civilian law enforcement personnel, NOT military personnel (which Guard troops are, even when in Title 32 status). I don't know if, or how many, additional personnel are needed, or if the abundant DC & Federal police, & Federal agents, already extant in DC, could be better organized to provide a QRF capability. That is what came together on Jan 6th to clear the Capitol before the National Guard arrived.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:45 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:37 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:08 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:01 pm Dems in Congress want a standing, full time, 24/7 DC National Guard Quick Reaction Force, which would be a component of the DC Air National Guard, based at Joint Base Andrews. It would be Airmen trained as riot police. They could name it the Ashli Babbit Brigade in memory of their best known alum, who was lost on Jan 6th.

This is a bad idea & a perversion of the mission of the National Guard, for so many reasons, including those addressed in this article :
https://www.militarytimes.com/opinion/c ... -bad-idea/

On this one, I think I agree and for much the same reasons.

That said, I want to see DC be a state and the Governor/Mayor to have the same authorities with the NG as any other Governor. In the meantime, there needs to be far more funding to the DC government and to the Capitol Police for the capabilities necessary for defense of the Capitol, including such capabilities as described by this "Quick Reaction" force. Probably not though a NG unit though.

What would you recommend, Salty, given your understanding of the ins and outs of the military, the special requirements of the Capitol, and our recent experiences with an internal insurrection? How do we defend in the event that next time is more organized and is heavily armed? Serious question.

Under no circumstances would I give Title 32 authority to the DC Mayor. That is a power reserved for state Governors & in DC, for the President, delegated to SecDef & Sec of the Army.

imho -- the full time QRF should be sworn civilian law enforcement personnel, NOT military personnel (which Guard troops are, even when in Title 32 status). I don't know if, or how many, additional personnel are needed, or if the abundant DC & Federal police, & Federal agents, already extant in DC, could be better organized to provide a QRF capability. That is what came together on Jan 6th to clear the Capitol before the National Guard arrived.

Which is why I said DC should be a State. Under that scenario, the Governor/Mayor would have those powers.

Absent that, I hear no actual answer from you as to how to actually protect the Capitol from a far better planned and armed insurrection attempt fomented by the outgoing President himself.

Maybe the police should be better 'organized'?

That's it?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:40 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:20 pm It’s really small to portray a term as the only representation of the concept when we all have discussed this going back a year or more. Who cares what it’s coined, that’s just marketing, the discussion regarding the aging majority minority (or whichever is better being first of old white males) has been open and on the table for a while. It would be dishonest to pretend like the concept only evolves once the term was created regardless of when that was. That’s backwards thinking.

Yup, the 'white resentment', 'white fear', 'white anger' themes have been widely discussed as underlying the Trumpist movement. We discussed it a lot here on these threads.

"White Rage" was specifically coined by an author in 2016, in part explaining the Charlottesville event and the increasing rise and proliferation of white supremacist groups. Meanwhile, the FBI was telling Congress that this movement represented the greatest terrorist threat for the USA.

And when Jan 6 occurred it was immediately part of the discussion, both using the specific term, and in the general coverage...not on Fox and OAN or RT of course, but all of the mainstream media which bothered to show us actual video and pictures.

It was prominently discussed in the immediate aftermath and it's been discussed among those who have been actually analyzing these issues ever since.

Moreover, it seems quite obvious that Milley, who actually is a very smart guy and is well read, has been doing his homework on these issues and had become familiar with this particular term and its meaning. Why, because he's actually interested in understanding.

However, Salty's correct that it wasn't 'common parlance' amongst the right wing set, though.
Wonder why?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 9:45 pm
Which is why I said DC should be a State. Under that scenario, the Governor/Mayor would have those powers.

Absent that, I hear no actual answer from you as to how to actually protect the Capitol from a far better planned and armed insurrection attempt fomented by the outgoing President himself.

Maybe the police should be better 'organized'?

That's it?

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:45 pm But I fail to see what value “common parlance” has with respect to any subject of control and allocation of resources within a society or community. That’s just air. The substance is in the dialectic not the heuristics.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:04 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:45 pm But I fail to see what value “common parlance” has with respect to any subject of control and allocation of resources within a society or community. That’s just air. The substance is in the dialectic not the heuristics.

That was my original point -- "white rage" is a recently emerging buzzword, used to hype an orchestrated narrative that Jan 6th was caused by "white rage".

Before Gen Milley's outburst, how often had you read the term "white rage" without attribution to Carol Anderson.
Now watch how often you read or hear it going forward, without attribution to it's author.

It's right out of the Dem's playbook -- attribute everything to race. Continue to promote tribal divisions & resentment.
Then when there's pushback, shout "racist" & "angry old white man". Tedious & predictable. It's wearing people out.

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:04 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:45 pm But I fail to see what value “common parlance” has with respect to any subject of control and allocation of resources within a society or community. That’s just air. The substance is in the dialectic not the heuristics.

That was my original point -- "white rage" is a recently emerging buzzword, used to hype an orchestrated narrative that Jan 6th was caused by "white rage".

Before Gen Milley's outburst, how often had you read the term "white rage" without attribution to Carol Anderson.
Now watch how often you read or hear it going forward, without attribution to it's author.

It's right out of the Dem's playbook -- attribute everything to race. Continue to promote tribal divisions & resentment.
Then when there's pushback, shout "racist" & "angry old white man". Tedious & predictable. It's wearing people out.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:07 pm

old salt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:04 pm

Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Tue Jun 29, 2021 10:45 pm But I fail to see what value “common parlance” has with respect to any subject of control and allocation of resources within a society or community. That’s just air. The substance is in the dialectic not the heuristics.

That was my original point -- "white rage" is a recently emerging buzzword, used to hype an orchestrated narrative that Jan 6th was caused by "white rage".

Before Gen Milley's outburst, how often had you read the term "white rage" without attribution to Carol Anderson.
Now watch how often you read or hear it going forward, without attribution to it's author.

It's right out of the Dem's playbook -- attribute everything to race. Continue to promote tribal divisions & resentment.
Then when there's pushback, shout "racist" & "angry old white man". Tedious & predictable. It's wearing people out.