LaxPower Back-Up Stick

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:54 am

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:32 am Adler's a great player, but the Ivy League was weak this year. He may be the best player as evidenced by the PLL draft. However, shutting down the best players on middle of the road teams from a weak conference will not and should not get a defender into the Tewey finals.

Dordevic has no business being on the list. 46 of his points have come in the last month against weak competition. The kid can play, but his play has not warranted consideration for the Tewey. Dickson would have been a far more deserving choice given he racked up points against a far harder schedule.

The Committee must have felt like they had to put someone from Virginia so they picked the best player by reputation and potential. I strongly disagree with the Shellenberger nomination. The guy has all the potential in the world, but production matters and he hasn't produced. He should be commended for playing through injuries, but those injuries should not be used to prop up what has been lackluster performance. Feels like the Committee has him on the list in case Virginia goes on a run to the championship as a hedge.

O'Neill plays lacrosse like Shaq played basketball, except O'Neill doesn't foul every play. Hard to see how he doesn't win it.

B.S. The Ivy League has 4 teams in the top 20 RPI and 3 out of 17 teams in the tourney. With 9 leagues receiving an AQ plus 5 ACC teams competing for 8 at-large bids, the Ivy league received 25% of the at-large bids and more than 1/6 of all bids. Adler shut down the top scorer in each game. Adler (and Kirst), both legit 1st Team AAs, likely unanimously, and candidates for the Schmeisser, Turnbull & Ennis awards are legit. Enough said.

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:40 pm

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:54 am

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:32 am Adler's a great player, but the Ivy League was weak this year. He may be the best player as evidenced by the PLL draft. However, shutting down the best players on middle of the road teams from a weak conference will not and should not get a defender into the Tewey finals.

Dordevic has no business being on the list. 46 of his points have come in the last month against weak competition. The kid can play, but his play has not warranted consideration for the Tewey. Dickson would have been a far more deserving choice given he racked up points against a far harder schedule.

The Committee must have felt like they had to put someone from Virginia so they picked the best player by reputation and potential. I strongly disagree with the Shellenberger nomination. The guy has all the potential in the world, but production matters and he hasn't produced. He should be commended for playing through injuries, but those injuries should not be used to prop up what has been lackluster performance. Feels like the Committee has him on the list in case Virginia goes on a run to the championship as a hedge.

O'Neill plays lacrosse like Shaq played basketball, except O'Neill doesn't foul every play. Hard to see how he doesn't win it.

B.S. The Ivy League has 4 teams in the top 20 RPI and 3 out of 17 teams in the tourney. With 9 leagues receiving an AQ plus 5 ACC teams competing for 8 at-large bids, the Ivy league received 25% of the at-large bids and more than 1/6 of all bids. Adler shut down the top scorer in each game. Adler (and Kirst), both legit 1st Team AAs, likely unanimously, and candidates for the Schmeisser, Turnbull & Ennis awards are legit. Enough said.

The RPI does not measure a team's quality; it measures their record poorly.

The Committee awarded Harvard a slot last year and gave Brown a home game. Those decisions were bad last year and look worse now. If you think the Committee's judgment is authority worth referencing, we cannot agree on what constitutes reliable evidence.

To be the best, you have to play the best. If Adler can help propel Cornell on another run, I'll change my tune. Until he faces some top-5 teams, however, he's not deserving. That's like being POY in basketball without facing a top-25 team. If you prefer another metric, we can use the top 10%. Adler hasn't played against a team in the top 10% of D1 programs.

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:23 pm

coda wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 12:14 pm

laxfan1313 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:54 am

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:32 am Adler's a great player, but the Ivy League was weak this year. He may be the best player as evidenced by the PLL draft. However, shutting down the best players on middle of the road teams from a weak conference will not and should not get a defender into the Tewey finals.

Dordevic has no business being on the list. 46 of his points have come in the last month against weak competition. The kid can play, but his play has not warranted consideration for the Tewey. Dickson would have been a far more deserving choice given he racked up points against a far harder schedule.

The Committee must have felt like they had to put someone from Virginia so they picked the best player by reputation and potential. I strongly disagree with the Shellenberger nomination. The guy has all the potential in the world, but production matters and he hasn't produced. He should be commended for playing through injuries, but those injuries should not be used to prop up what has been lackluster performance. Feels like the Committee has him on the list in case Virginia goes on a run to the championship as a hedge.

O'Neill plays lacrosse like Shaq played basketball, except O'Neill doesn't foul every play. Hard to see how he doesn't win it.

B.S. The Ivy League has 4 teams in the top 20 RPI and 3 out of 17 teams in the tourney. With 9 leagues receiving an AQ plus 5 ACC teams competing for 8 at-large bids, the Ivy league received 25% of the at-large bids and more than 1/6 of all bids. Adler shut down the top scorer in each game. Adler (and Kirst), both legit 1st Team AAs, likely unanimously, and candidates for the Schmeisser, Turnbull & Ennis awards are legit. Enough said.

ACC was far and away the best conference. Big 10 was the second best. Ivy was clear #3 based on the season. ACC had 60% of their conference receive at-large bids and those 3 received a top 3 seeding. Big 10 had 66.7% of the league make the tournament and 50% of the conference receive at-large bids, Ivy had 43% of their conference make the tournament and 28.7% receive at-large bids. Ivy's highest seed was an 8 seed, both the ACC and Big 10 had 3 teams seeded inside of 8

ACC isn't a "conference" in lacrosse. Cornell played Yale twice and Marquette which beat Penn State. Cornell was in the top 5 on Massey for most of the season and is #6 on Massey today. Cornell is sufficiently well-ranked for its players to command respect here & by the Tewaaraton Foundation.

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:12 pm “Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.”

Who was?

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Thanks.

I think Delaware can give Duke some trouble. Looking at their scores, four losses by a total of 12 goals, but five in a loss to Towson?

Their FOGO seems like a weak spot. That could hurt against Naso.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:42 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Thanks.

I think Delaware can give Duke some trouble. Looking at their scores, four losses by a total of 12 goals, but five in a loss to Towson?

Their FOGO seems like a weak spot. That could hurt against Naso.

Yes, anyone that looks past Delaware is making a big mistake. Lots of talent.

I'm not a Duke fan, but I hope Duke beats them badly.

Chousnake wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:36 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He can't be any good. According to the ACC and JHU fanboys, only players on the top 5 teams in the country are good players.

HGK wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:50 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:42 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Thanks.

I think Delaware can give Duke some trouble. Looking at their scores, four losses by a total of 12 goals, but five in a loss to Towson?

Their FOGO seems like a weak spot. That could hurt against Naso.

Yes, anyone that looks past Delaware is making a big mistake. Lots of talent.

I'm not a Duke fan, but I hope Duke beats them badly.

I’ll take things you don’t often hear for $1000…

HGK wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:50 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:42 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Thanks.

I think Delaware can give Duke some trouble. Looking at their scores, four losses by a total of 12 goals, but five in a loss to Towson?

Their FOGO seems like a weak spot. That could hurt against Naso.

Yes, anyone that looks past Delaware is making a big mistake. Lots of talent.

I'm not a Duke fan, but I hope Duke beats them badly.

I’ll take things you don’t often hear for $1000…

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:50 pm Did he "play the best" last year?
How did he do?

Henpecked wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:02 pm

HGK wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:50 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:42 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 2:08 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:59 pm

Finster wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:55 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 11:58 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:15 am

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 10:01 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 9:16 am

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 8:36 am

DMac wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 7:37 am Bottom line is it's bullschidt that all five candidates are attackmen.
How many of those five candidates do more on the field than Adler
does? He affects games every bit as much as they do but he doesn't
have a bunch of goals, so no Tewey consideration for him. Both sides,
men's and women's, all attack. The committee needs to take a look
at that. Look up Tucker Dordevic's number of GBs, number of TOs,
shoots damn near every time he touches the ball, rarely throws an
assist but the committee sees him as a better player than Adler.
It's garbage.

The love affair with Adler is a bit much. Great player - but the award goes to men who scores goals. He doesn’t. Move on.

Men and women.

The Tewaaraton Award is an annual award for the most outstanding American college lacrosse men's and women's players,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tewaaraton_Award
How 'bout we start recognizing the award as a goal scorer's award rather than the most outstanding player then?

I agree with this fundamental point. It's supposed to be "outstanding player"...that's nearly always an attacker, but it shouldn't be the automatic assumption that an attacker is the most impactful player for their team, best in the nation at their position as well.

And to think that there are 5 attack that qualify as such more than any defender, midfielder, goalie or FOGO seems wrong. The ultimate winner of the award may well be attack...

I think for the men's side, two from Cornell may have seemed a barrier, moreover other outstanding defenders may have muddied the waters...but I definitely had Adler ahead of Dordevic.

Dordevic is simply not the best player at his position.
He could even have the most outstanding tournament, but that wouldn't make him the best player at his position.

Adler ahead of Dordevic is ridiculous. No defenseman has the impact a pure scorer has on a team. Give Adler the Schmeisser. He deserves it.

Dordevic wasn't even the best player on his own attack line for the first half of the season. Even now I would put a lot of money on Adler to completely erase Dordevic if they were matched up on each other.

Random: I respect your posts. You seem to have a good handle on teams and players. Question for you (or anyone really).

I saw highlights of Delaware versus Marist. I haven’t seen Delaware in person. There was a kid on Delaware who has phenomenal first step dodging, JP Ward.

I’m not saying he’s a Tewaaraton winner, but I can certainly say any team would want this kid. I looked up his numbers: 40 goals, 43 assists.

As I said, superb misdirection dodge. This team might give Duke problems.

What do you think of this kid?

He's very good. Definitely trouble. One of Delaware's two best offensive tools in their shed.
Pertinent to this conversation above, Adler would eat him for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Thanks.

I think Delaware can give Duke some trouble. Looking at their scores, four losses by a total of 12 goals, but five in a loss to Towson?

Their FOGO seems like a weak spot. That could hurt against Naso.

Yes, anyone that looks past Delaware is making a big mistake. Lots of talent.

I'm not a Duke fan, but I hope Duke beats them badly.

I’ll take things you don’t often hear for $1000…

Not a surprising comment. MDLax despises DeLuca because he benched his overrated all-Ivy son who was the goalie on a horrible Harvard squad. He is a very petty small man who loves talking about his legendary lacrosse family. Petty beyond belief.

Creasedive wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:09 pm “Not a surprising comment. MDLax despises DeLuca because he benched his overrated all-Ivy son who was the goalie on a horrible Harvard squad. He is a very petty small man who loves talking about his legendary lacrosse family. Petty beyond belief.”

This oughta be good.

I’ll probably have to take a nap halfway through his response.

Hoxwurth wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:13 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 1:50 pm Did he "play the best" last year?
How did he do?

I didn't realize 2023 awards were based off 2022 performances. I like Adler. I think he and Kirst are as good a pair as you will find in college lacrosse this season. Like last year, I think they can be excellent against great competition. The problem is that they have not faced excellent competition as of today.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 12, 2023 3:52 pm Fair re 2023, however I was responding to this statement:
Until he faces some top-5 teams, however, he's not deserving. That's like being POY in basketball without facing a top-25 team. If you prefer another metric, we can use the top 10%. Adler hasn't played against a team in the top 10% of D1 programs.

First, I think the metric you're setting is pretty silly on its face, but accepting it, it's clear that this time last year he did play against several such qualifying teams, against their best players, and was very, very good against those caliber of players. And has played the very best players on multiple top 20 teams this year and dominated them.

But I agree that the award is for performance this year, yes...including how everyone does in the tournament. Cornell is in the tournament. Adler may or may not have the opportunity to face multiple such teams and players this year, but if he does and dominates, he won't be eligible.

But multiple attack men will be eligible, who are not close to being the best players at their position...in 2023...who remain eligible, but the best defender is not...

Again, if the description of the award is changed to best offensive player, no argument at all.