All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

[DocBarrister]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

It would certainly be offensive to a current Ukrainian citizen, outside of separatists.

[Farfromgeneva]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

Undergrad Days!!

The day..the muuusic died

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

[Brooklyn]

Well, you know what they say, the profit from appeasement is Peace in our time.

DocBarrister

Well that sure didn't work as imperialist Bush intimidated the entire world via his campaign of international terror (though it did generate a nifty profit to the tune of $100+ billion for his corporate welfare pals).

[Brooklyn]

I still say "the Bronx", not Bronx. And that's the way it's gonna stay. So there ...

[Peter Brown]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

[Peter Brown]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

I don’t use any of the terms you mentioned, including “the Ukraine”. I also don’t look askance at anyone who does. People aren’t one-dimensional like the woke insists for their bizarre jeremiad. Sheesh.

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

It really comes down to whether one wants to offend or not.

Some do.

I cut those who don't know better some slack.
I was bit taken aback when I thought I heard Panetta slip...but he's getting quite old...84 now.
Old dogs...
found a video from a week ago in which he does many times...and that drew a lot of comments..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vf-quvc42Y

Andrea doesn't. And she's no spring chicken either.

[DocBarrister]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

It really comes down to whether one wants to offend or not.

Some do.

I cut those who don't know better some slack.
I was bit taken aback when I thought I heard Panetta slip...but he's getting quite old...84 now.
Old dogs...
found a video from a week ago in which he does many times...and that drew a lot of comments..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vf-quvc42Y

Andrea doesn't. And she's no spring chicken either.

That’s the important distinction. Even President Obama has inadvertently used the term “the Ukraine” in his statements. It happens.

Those occasional mistakes are very different from knowingly choosing to use a pejorative term.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

It really comes down to whether one wants to offend or not.

Some do.

I cut those who don't know better some slack.
I was bit taken aback when I thought I heard Panetta slip...but he's getting quite old...84 now.
Old dogs...
found a video from a week ago in which he does many times...and that drew a lot of comments..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vf-quvc42Y

Andrea doesn't. And she's no spring chicken either.

That’s the important distinction. Even President Obama has inadvertently used the term “the Ukraine” in his statements. It happens.

Those occasional mistakes are very different from knowingly choosing to use a pejorative term.

DocBarrister

It really comes down to whether one wants to offend or not.

[old salt]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

I say again. Is use THE Ukraine when referring to the Soviet Republic or the region of Russia before 1991.
Just as my fellow Cold Warriors did & some still do.

[old salt]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

You’re not even bothering to hide your pro-Putin bias anymore.

DocBarrister

You are confusing analysis with approval.

[MDlaxfan76]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

I say again. Is use THE Ukraine when referring to the Soviet Republic or the region of Russia before 1991.
Just as my fellow Cold Warriors did & some still do.

Ok, but what's your answer to the initial question?
Please don't make me guess.

And secondly, how about any time before 1917?

[DocBarrister]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

You’re not even bothering to hide your pro-Putin bias anymore.

DocBarrister

You are confusing analysis with approval.

I believe you are misrepresenting your approval as analysis.

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

It really comes down to whether one wants to offend or not.

Some do.

I cut those who don't know better some slack.
I was bit taken aback when I thought I heard Panetta slip...but he's getting quite old...84 now.
Old dogs...
found a video from a week ago in which he does many times...and that drew a lot of comments..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vf-quvc42Y

Andrea doesn't. And she's no spring chicken either.

That’s the important distinction. Even President Obama has inadvertently used the term “the Ukraine” in his statements. It happens.

Those occasional mistakes are very different from knowingly choosing to use a pejorative term.

DocBarrister

I argued with a friend about the movie Parasite. He continued to call it a Chinese movie after I had told him twice it was a Korean movie. He said he calls them all Chinese… I called him an a-hole because that’s what he is.

[Typical Lax Dad]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

I don’t use any of the terms you mentioned, including “the Ukraine”. I also don’t look askance at anyone who does. People aren’t one-dimensional like the woke insists for their bizarre jeremiad. Sheesh.

You mean the “rednecks”.

[Peter Brown]

I've been referring to the region & the Soviet Republic as THE Ukraine since my undergrad courses on Russian & Soviet history, as did my professors & classmates. That was followed by 20 years of reading about THE Ukraine in intel reports & tactical documents.
When we targeted Sevastopol & Odessa, we did not refer to them as part of "Ukraine".
I plan to continue to use THE Ukraine to make the distinction to which I am referring.

What do you call Ukraine now?

Are you solely distinguishing the period under Soviet domination as "the Ukraine" but before and after not?

In other words, using the preferred Soviet expression, which Putin continues to use now...which he does on purpose to imply there is no sovereign Ukraine?

As I said, I understand why the slippage happens to those who grew up using that phrase, but I'm not sure I'm buying using it now unless one is SUPER clear that one is referring only to that period of time. It's insulting otherwise and signals affinity to the Putin POV.

Isn’t old salt’s rationale for using “the Ukraine” a bit akin to using the word “colored” (or worse) when referring to African Americans because that’s what they were called in the past?

What justification is there for using today a pejorative term like “the Ukraine” in any discussion here?

DocBarrister

That was exactly what I thought….decided not to mention it. I believe that was the term during those undergraduate days.

You guys have got to learn how to chill with the ad hominem attacks, unless you’re doing this little two-step fake simply to get a rise out of Old Salt so you can report him.

Just cause someone says ‘The Ukraine’ instead of Ukraine does not de facto make him a fully paid up member of the KKK. I mean, seriously?

Snowflake….Orientals was used back in those days too….doesn’t mean you should still use it….

I don’t use any of the terms you mentioned, including “the Ukraine”. I also don’t look askance at anyone who does. People aren’t one-dimensional like the woke insists for their bizarre jeremiad. Sheesh.

You mean the “rednecks”.

I actually do use that one, a lot. I live and work with tons of’em, and they quite like the term. I consider myself one, proudly. You’re free to refer to me as that from now on. I shall take zero offense.

I can not, however, speak for the rest of the board nor the owner.