LaxPower Back-Up Stick

One of the surviving kids on CNN:

"I used to want to be a police officer, but now I want to be a surgeon so I can help people."

Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

get it to x wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:27 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:18 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:59 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:10 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:36 pm I’m not jumping (yet) on the ‘Uvalde police are worthless’ bandwagon, but their press conferences are unmitigated disasters. The guy handling the conference today was hard of hearing, he licked his lips every second, he didn’t seem to know pretty much any relevant detail, and he cried three times. Jeeebus. Disastrous.

I have no idea if what’s being reported is accurate or not, but these press conferences lead me to believe the police were total buffoons. I don’t think they were scared so much as incompetent. What’s happening with their press conferences is they look both scared and incompetent. And when our lib media sense a weak opponent on the other side of the political divide, as here, they are ruthless like pack animals.

Abbott has to own this cluster-eff. Desantis would’ve fired anyone mangling things like this, yesterday. Poor leadership on Abbott’s part.

I just can not help thinking that they where scared to death of making "a wrong move", so much so, that they made no move.....frozen with indecision, which is a decision...just the wrong one.

That part that is unclear to me, is when did the shooter begin firing the gun at the students/teachers. Was it the gunfire the police claim was directed at them or was that when the shooter did the unthinkable or both....around 11:44 when they arrived then minutes later?

So that do nothing 40-50 minutes may have been just a surrounding of the hallway and exterior so he could not exit the classroom.

I'm trying to give as much benefit of the doubt as I can to the police on the ground, but I'd agree with Petey (!) that, at a very minimum, the messaging has been abysmal both by the police representatives and by Abbott. Atrocious.

On the substance, it may well prove to be worse. The timeline on kids' calls, if accurate, is really bad...so, too, are deaths in multiple classrooms.

But there's still so much 'fog' about what went down and why, that being definitive still feels premature.

What we do know is that, for the past 2 decades, police have been trained to immediately breach until conclusion in such situations, not the way they did it pre-Columbine. That's the protocol, not surround and negotiate, nor to retreat if the assailant is heavily armed. They know this.

Ugh.

Fog is a good analogy. You'd certainly have to assume they've done this training plenty. But they also know they have a bullseye on their head by the gunman and a bullseye on their back by the general public. The last couple years have certainly taught us that.

And when you get in to the weeds. They had no idea if this was an inside job b/c that door should never have been propped. My wife is a school teacher and they often sweep the halls and reminded quite often to NEVER prop doors...its procedure to not do so.

Yup, fog.

But every tom, dick, and sally knows the protocol is to go in hard right away and keep going until you take down the assailant. They aren't going to negotiate, they're going to kill. It's not a bank robber hostage situation, it's a mass murder happening in real time.

They knew that, for sure.

"inside job" because a 'door was open"...even if they knew that the door had been open (which they very likely didn't), it would have made no difference, one assailant or two or more, the protocol's the same, breach and keep going until all secure. No delay.

Listen, if anything was known other than a young man with an AR-15 was inside, they would/should have known that he'd already shot his grandmother, there already had been a chase, that he'd entered the school...no way that they shouldn't have followed protocol and breached with whatever they had. No, you don't wait for SWAT...and SWAT, which they actually have, wasn't who eventually went in!

Man, I hope there's some better explanation for all this other than cowardice and/or incompetence in command, but it's not looking good.

I think the stuff about being afraid of public scrutiny is ridiculous...there's a protocol that's been trained; follow it. Don't make up excuses why not...(not that you are doing so).

+100 - Expect many lawsuits.

Has it been confirmed that the shooter was shooting outside the building for 12 minutes before the police showed up?

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:31 pm

get it to x wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:27 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 4:18 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:59 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:10 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:36 pm I’m not jumping (yet) on the ‘Uvalde police are worthless’ bandwagon, but their press conferences are unmitigated disasters. The guy handling the conference today was hard of hearing, he licked his lips every second, he didn’t seem to know pretty much any relevant detail, and he cried three times. Jeeebus. Disastrous.

I have no idea if what’s being reported is accurate or not, but these press conferences lead me to believe the police were total buffoons. I don’t think they were scared so much as incompetent. What’s happening with their press conferences is they look both scared and incompetent. And when our lib media sense a weak opponent on the other side of the political divide, as here, they are ruthless like pack animals.

Abbott has to own this cluster-eff. Desantis would’ve fired anyone mangling things like this, yesterday. Poor leadership on Abbott’s part.

I just can not help thinking that they where scared to death of making "a wrong move", so much so, that they made no move.....frozen with indecision, which is a decision...just the wrong one.

That part that is unclear to me, is when did the shooter begin firing the gun at the students/teachers. Was it the gunfire the police claim was directed at them or was that when the shooter did the unthinkable or both....around 11:44 when they arrived then minutes later?

So that do nothing 40-50 minutes may have been just a surrounding of the hallway and exterior so he could not exit the classroom.

I'm trying to give as much benefit of the doubt as I can to the police on the ground, but I'd agree with Petey (!) that, at a very minimum, the messaging has been abysmal both by the police representatives and by Abbott. Atrocious.

On the substance, it may well prove to be worse. The timeline on kids' calls, if accurate, is really bad...so, too, are deaths in multiple classrooms.

But there's still so much 'fog' about what went down and why, that being definitive still feels premature.

What we do know is that, for the past 2 decades, police have been trained to immediately breach until conclusion in such situations, not the way they did it pre-Columbine. That's the protocol, not surround and negotiate, nor to retreat if the assailant is heavily armed. They know this.

Ugh.

Fog is a good analogy. You'd certainly have to assume they've done this training plenty. But they also know they have a bullseye on their head by the gunman and a bullseye on their back by the general public. The last couple years have certainly taught us that.

And when you get in to the weeds. They had no idea if this was an inside job b/c that door should never have been propped. My wife is a school teacher and they often sweep the halls and reminded quite often to NEVER prop doors...its procedure to not do so.

Yup, fog.

But every tom, dick, and sally knows the protocol is to go in hard right away and keep going until you take down the assailant. They aren't going to negotiate, they're going to kill. It's not a bank robber hostage situation, it's a mass murder happening in real time.

They knew that, for sure.

"inside job" because a 'door was open"...even if they knew that the door had been open (which they very likely didn't), it would have made no difference, one assailant or two or more, the protocol's the same, breach and keep going until all secure. No delay.

Listen, if anything was known other than a young man with an AR-15 was inside, they would/should have known that he'd already shot his grandmother, there already had been a chase, that he'd entered the school...no way that they shouldn't have followed protocol and breached with whatever they had. No, you don't wait for SWAT...and SWAT, which they actually have, wasn't who eventually went in!

Man, I hope there's some better explanation for all this other than cowardice and/or incompetence in command, but it's not looking good.

I think the stuff about being afraid of public scrutiny is ridiculous...there's a protocol that's been trained; follow it. Don't make up excuses why not...(not that you are doing so).

+100 - Expect many lawsuits.

Has it been confirmed that the shooter was shooting outside the building for 12 minutes before the police showed up?

I have not heard otherwise. If, in fact, they were that far off from established protocol do they have qualified immunity?

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Biden and Obama had the chance to reinstitute the ban with the 111th congress. Why didn't they?

Carroll81 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Biden and Obama had the chance to reinstitute the ban with the 111th congress. Why didn't they?

Do you not recall?
They had 57 Senators plus 2 who caucused with them, not 60...and several Dems were opposed. Obama hadn't run on gun control, though it was clear where he stood.

They later tried after Sandy Hook, fewer Dems but national mood was with them.. but still didn't have the votes. Including with some swing state Dems.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ol-227625/

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-c ... d=39846590

They couldn't even get past the filibuster with a watered down version of background checks, negotiated by Manchin and Toomey.

The political clout of the NRA is brutally strong.

Carroll81 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 8:15 pm

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Biden and Obama had the chance to reinstitute the ban with the 111th congress. Why didn't they?

It would take multiple books to go over why they didn't. You have to look at the bipartisan congressional support and then right wing backlash of the first AWB. Biden and Obama aren't able introduce laws, so they had little say in the matter in the 111th. Democrats had exactly enough votes to beat the filibuster for only 72 days and only if every single Democrat agreed. The country had also moved a lot to the right since the original AWB and plenty of conservative Democrats were in the 111th. Dem's got one major piece of legislation passed in those 72 days - a Republican health care reform plan, which has saved a lot more Americans than another assault weapons ban would have, but the ACA is still many times worse than nearly any other actual universal healthcare options. If Dem's had pushed another AWB, they would have lost a lot more seats in congress even if they saved more American lives.

Of course the entire question is disingenuous BS stupidity because your Republican half of congress played tiddlywinks in response to mass shootings happening over and over and over and over again for the past 30+ years. Asking why the Democrats aren't doing more about them is about the stupidest thing ever. Democrats have been in the supermajority for 72 days in like 5 decades and have tried again and again to pass meaningful reform in state and federal government in addition to some stupid reforms.

The real question is why isn't your side doing more? We unfortunately get to ask that question weekly.

There was no way Obama was going to push for gun control right off the bat in his administration. It was not assured given the layout of votes and he was trying really hard to not be divisive. A futile effort as Pelosi and Schumer both told him. But he didn't listen until he mostly wasted his first couple years.

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Kismet wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:28 pm

get it to x wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:29 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:10 pm Kid brought 58 magazines.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1530 ... ePu7wqAAAA

And getittox wants to talk about some woman shooting back. Maybe the rest of us -- you know, citizens with constitutional and civil rights -- don't want to bring weapons, just in case, to the supermarket, the movies, the synagogue, the softball game, the workplace.

I live in a constitutional carry state and I never see anyone with a sidearm anywhere. They may have it concealed or in their glove compartment. I only posted the article because CU88 posted the following:

"All this "good guy with a gun" nonsense is over.

19 "good guys with guns" stood outside a door and listened to little kids beg for their lives before being cut to ribbons with bullets."

Don't conflate a situation commander's terrible judgement with a citizen taking down a threat.

Maybe it is relevant that this 18YO shooter, after buying two AR-15 type rifles, also purchased 1700 rounds of ammunition without anybody asking a question. Who needs that amount of ammunition?

Shooters do that all of time, my son included. That is how you save money, you buy in volume. Same concept used by COSTCO, BJs and any other type of business. 5.56 ammo is no longer cheap. I wonder how an unemployed deushbag affords the purchase?

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Along those lines. The older I become, the more cynically leaning my mind drifts. When you stop and think about it...the very things that are tearing us apart, tend to be the very same things that continually and progressively become worse, no matter what our elected leaders claim they are fighting for; drugs, guns, and family. The model is encouraging individualization, rather that "we are all created equal". Sure, we can bicker over what party has driven this, but they are each equally to blame.

Have a great weekend everyone. Hug whoever will allow you and tell them they are appreciated.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 3:10 pm

Peter Brown wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 2:36 pm I’m not jumping (yet) on the ‘Uvalde police are worthless’ bandwagon, but their press conferences are unmitigated disasters. The guy handling the conference today was hard of hearing, he licked his lips every second, he didn’t seem to know pretty much any relevant detail, and he cried three times. Jeeebus. Disastrous.

I have no idea if what’s being reported is accurate or not, but these press conferences lead me to believe the police were total buffoons. I don’t think they were scared so much as incompetent. What’s happening with their press conferences is they look both scared and incompetent. And when our lib media sense a weak opponent on the other side of the political divide, as here, they are ruthless like pack animals.

Abbott has to own this cluster-eff. Desantis would’ve fired anyone mangling things like this, yesterday. Poor leadership on Abbott’s part.

I just can not help thinking that they where scared to death of making "a wrong move", so much so, that they made no move.....frozen with indecision, which is a decision...just the wrong one.

That part that is unclear to me, is when did the shooter begin firing the gun at the students/teachers. Was it the gunfire the police claim was directed at them or was that when the shooter did the unthinkable or both....around 11:44 when they arrived then minutes later?

So that do nothing 40-50 minutes may have been just a surrounding of the hallway and exterior so he could not exit the classroom.

Like so much in life, the real story is always more complex than what we want to believe. I very much doubt the entire police force there is made up of by scared incompetence. My guess is they were taught above all else to follow orders, but no one at the scene had tactical command. So they come off *looking* both scared and incompetent.

Making matters worse, their messaging is atrocious. Their press conferences are beyond awful. It’s outrageous to Americans but it’s more unnecessary searing pain for the parents. Just awful.

And Abbott must share the blame. At the end of the day he’s chief executive of the state. He’s showing really poor leadership, bad decisions, and gutless deflection. I’ve lost a ton of respect for him.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 7:40 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Along those lines. The older I become, the more cynically leaning my mind drifts. When you stop and think about it...the very things that are tearing us apart, tend to be the very same things that continually and progressively become worse, no matter what our elected leaders claim they are fighting for; drugs, guns, and family. The model is encouraging individualization, rather that "we are all created equal". Sure, we can bicker over what party has driven this, but they are each equally to blame.

Have a great weekend everyone. Hug whoever will allow you and tell them they are appreciated.

+1

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Stop complaining. Crime hasn’t stopped YET.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 7:40 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Along those lines. The older I become, the more cynically leaning my mind drifts. When you stop and think about it...the very things that are tearing us apart, tend to be the very same things that continually and progressively become worse, no matter what our elected leaders claim they are fighting for; drugs, guns, and family. The model is encouraging individualization, rather that "we are all created equal". Sure, we can bicker over what party has driven this, but they are each equally to blame.

Have a great weekend everyone. Hug whoever will allow you and tell them they are appreciated.

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:38 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Stop complaining. Crime hasn’t stopped YET.

I'm only pointing out the inconvenient truth. Everybody wants to move heaven and earth to ban guns owned by law abiding Americans but no one wants to do jack diddly squat about illegal weapons. Why?? Because that would be very, very difficult to do.

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:43 am

Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 8:38 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:57 am

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:46 am

cradleandshoot wrote: ↑Sat May 28, 2022 6:40 am

CU88 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 5:07 pm Joe Biden said mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended.

They did

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... n-assault/

Does that include any given weekend in Chicago???

How clever...and symptomatic of the problems we are experiencing.

Not clever but it is a cold hard reality to the folks who live in Chicago. The problem is criminals who are in possession of ILLEGAL EFFING WEAPONS!!! The ongoing holocaust in Chicago and similar urban cities doesn't garner the flashy media headlines. Happy to know you have no problem putting your blinders on and ignoring the problem. That is the effing reality of the problem our country is facing.
FTR counselor.. how are all these illegal weapons finding their way into cities that have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. I ask you why the federal government and the BATF are not doing their job. Once these weapons cross state lines it becomes a federal issue. Is the BATF incapable of doing their job??

Stop complaining. Crime hasn’t stopped YET.

I'm only pointing out the inconvenient truth. Everybody wants to move heaven and earth to ban guns owned by law abiding Americans but no one wants to do jack diddly squat about illegal weapons. Why?? Because that would be very, very difficult to do.

Nobody has talked about getting guns off the streets….YET. Enjoy the games today old man.