Is America a racist nation?

[jhu72]

.. don't believe it took 100 odd years before anyone noticed it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Considering this skit was done 22yrs ago I’d say folks noticed Aunt Jenima before last year…but it’s still funny as hades

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg4lpu_9iKE

[PizzaSnake]

The fundamental issue of the continued existence of artifacts isn’t the object, but the continuation of the beliefs (Lost Cause, Manifest Destiny) through a skewed vision of history that perpetuates the mindset that engendered the production of these artifacts in the first place.

Let’s consider Mt. Rushmore. Given its isolated location and necessity for a haj-like expedition to view it, what was purpose of this location. The fact it is located in an area long regarded as a “holy” site by the pre-European immigrants (recognizing ALL homo sapiens in the Americas are immigrants) but of no particular significance to Europeans is indicative of an interest in cultural effacement and statement of forceful usurpation of control.

Stone Mountain is relatively straightforward hagiography of the military wing of a group bent on the continuation of an economic model largely dependent on chattel slavery.

So we’re are clear, I’m a little dubious about the Crazy Horse statue as well.

https://crazyhorsememorial.org/

While I appreciate the symbolism of a monumental FU to Mt. Rushmore, it just brings into sharp focus the propensity of humans to despoil nature for sport or politics.

But I guess all of this activity will give the cockroach paleontologists something to write their PhD dissertations on if they also suffer from humans egotistical foibles.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester is protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

[MDlaxfan76]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

[Farfromgeneva]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

[Typical Lax Dad]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

[Farfromgeneva]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

[Typical Lax Dad]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

Nope. I have mentioned that I was a mass media communications minor in college…One of the courses I took was “The History of Minorities in The Mass Media”. It was an excellent course. Media and The Government was also fantastic.

[PizzaSnake]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

“Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.”
André Gide

[Typical Lax Dad]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

“Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.”
André Gide

+1000

[PizzaSnake]

People weren’t so sensitive in the old days…..

Nobody paid attention to JayZs The Story of OJ apparently.

“Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was listening, everything must be said again.”
André Gide

+1000

There’s a reason repetition is the most powerful rhetorical device.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This never gets old.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

https://www.rochestersubway.com/topics/ ... -ridicule/

I am with you Cradle…. I don’t know why anyone would be offended….if anything, that chicken should be scared

Damn gangbangers are getting into cockfighting now?!?!

Who in Rochester protecting that kid from that Rooster??!! Where is BLM/Antifa?

It’s the mayors fault.

I never said I wasn't offended. What I said was I never paid much attention to the artwork on all of the panels. The carousel has been in the same location for over 110 years. It was designated an historical national landmark in 1980. Maybe enjoying a chocolate custard from Abbotts and a walk on the pier was enough if a distraction for any child or adult.

[cradleandshoot]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

I'm guessing the good folks of Rochester and Monroe County could have taken a more Taliban approach to the dilemma and could have simply blown the carousel to a million pieces...

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

You leaving a Swastika up there and two kids in striped pajamas, wise one?

About as idiotic an analogy to be made. You ever take your kid for a ride on a merry go round? The kids are more excited about what animal they want to ride.

You didn’t answer the question. You a kid?

[MDlaxfan76]

Maybe we should have just used some C4 and blown up the sculpture in question???? That is what the Thallllybhan would do and did.

I'm ok with that for Stone Mountain, though doubt it would be so crude.
Stone Mountain ain't a UNESCO World Heritage site and will never be one.
It's a monument to slavery, white supremacy, and sedition.
I guess for some that's a "religion"...

But Salty's free to explain his intent. We merely asked...

I'm guessing you didn't read my link to the Dentzel Carousel at Charlotte Beach? Read it and get back to me. The carousel has been designated as a historical national landmark. Sooooo you have no problem with removing that panel until your vision of " proper context" is defined? Even if it took a 110 years for anybody to notice it.

Yeah, I don't know hardly anything about your Carousel or the issue at hand, but I'd wager that this wasn't just "noticed" now...I'd wager it was noticed aplenty but no one thought it worthy to listen, and paling in comparison to other 'symbols' offensiveness so didn't draw much attention when there were much worse 'symbols' to focus on...believe me, Aunt Jemima wasn't first noticed to be offensive in the wake of George Floyd, it just wasn't being listened to by the white majority. That's what's really changed, more white folks willing to listen and consider taking action. Eyes more open, hearts more open.

I'd have to know more about the particular issue of the Carousel, options to address...my first instinct is usually to think about ways that things can be preserved for further education, not destroyed. Not always worth preserving, though, and certainly not always worth presenting in a place of honor.

Doesn't sound like that's what going on with this panel, so perhaps some signage that actually draws attention and delivers real educational value would suffice. If not, then removal of the single panel could well be appropriate...but there are indeed hoops to go through if designated as an historical landmark. So, I'd look first to addressing it through an educational exhibit and signage.

Read the damn link and educate yourself. YES it took that long before someone noticed that one panel. So your back to your same dumb ass original point... Just provide some historical perspective and context and everything will be just fine.

I clicked through all your links, cradle, I don't see anything confirming that no one noticed the offensiveness of this panel until just now. Perhaps I missed something, so feel free to re-link and point it out where they know that to be the case...the only thing I see is a guy named Brandon Fagan saying he'd visited there many times and hadn't noticed it...he goes on to say he doesn't see anything racist about it...ok Brandon Fagan doesn't get it.

But then we see a link TLD provided from 2015...that's pre-BLM and all the heightened interest in such symbols that goes into great detail as to why the panel is so offensive...as I said, I'd "wager" that just now isn't the first time someone noticed and was offended (won that wager)...indeed, I'd be willing to bet that it was noticed many, many times over many decades...but voicing that offense had costs.

Maybe somebody did notice it MD. The chit never hit the fan publicly until recently. I said before, I rode this carousel when I was young. The typical warm summer day was ride the bus to Charlotte Beach ( pronounced Shalott Beach by us locals) you grab an ice cream cone from Abbotts, chocolate custard thank you, then head to the we were looking to ride the carousel, we were not looking for racist panels. I did the same damn thing with my sons MD. I never paid attention to this artwork. If any person ever complained about this panel before it never made the news. Rochester is about as liberal a city as you will find. This is not the kind of issue that gets swept under the rug. I admit when the pictures of this artwork hit the news, I was just as stunned as anybody. They could not be more inappropriate. In 1980 this carousel was granted status as an historical national landmark. IMO when you look at this marvelous carousel and the beautiful hand carved horses, that is all you notice. The question now was what to do with this panel? You could not destroy it. IMO there is no historical context that can properly explain it 110 years down the road.

FTR, the panel was removed and put into storage somewhere. IMO the panel should have been kept at the carousel in another location with a plaque describing its history at the carousel and informing visitors to its racist history and why it was removed. I'm certainly not trying to defend the picture. I will say that to my knowledge for many decades nobody noticed it.

First, I appreciate your recognition that it's offensive, "could not be more inappropriate".

So, I hope you'll understand that I'm joking when I say "color me surprised that you didn't notice it"...actually, it's not at all surprising that most white folks are oblivious to such unless specifically pointed out...and of course there are the Brandons of that story who even so don't think it's racist.

And I totally understand that with so much other other visual and auditory stimuli, it's darn easy not to pay attention to every image presented, even if it is/was rather prominent.

But let's examine this a moment for what it actually tells us, that decades have gone by in which, at least to your knowledge (again white guy) no one "noticed" or at least didn't make a fuss about it? (note someone did in 2015, which you didn't know, but no action then). I'll guarantee you folks "noticed" and were offended, but simply kept their mouths shut...others may well have spoken up but were told to move along, shut up and enjoy the rides...whatever. But didn't break through into the larger community's consciousness. Yup, like a lot of such...

To be clear, I likely wouldn't have noticed it either...well, maybe...but if I close my eyes and imagine all the sights and sounds of an old fashioned merry-go-round I definitely can imagine never noticing. Eyes simply drawn elsewhere.

But the Historical Commission in 1980 surely looked at the carousel through a much closer examination. No way they could have entirely missed it. So, what does that tell us about the sensitivities or lack thereof of those commission members? What was the racial make-up of that group?

No argument about the Historical designation, but surely that was possible with the removal of that particular panel and replacement with something more appropriate to the overall joyful purpose. But they didn't...

Food for thought.
Not as delicious as the ice cream or custard, but worth 'tasting' for a moment...

Agree on finding an appropriate place to display and educate...don't know whether that could be done at that location, but I'd assume Rochester has an Historical Society or other museum for such displays from time to time that address the history of region, good and bad. Important to understand that prevailing attitudes have changed...