LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:54 pm

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sun May 23, 2021 11:25 am

Can Opener wrote: ↑Mon May 17, 2021 9:02 am Here are a few stats from the top four Tewaaraton finalists' performances over the weekend.

North - Team wins over Fairfield (19-6) and Temple (21-11)
15G 0A 71.4%SH 0TO 2CT 22DC 65.5%TeamDC

Scane - Team win over Denver 19-4
8G 3A 57%SH 2TO 0CT 1DC

Ortega - Team win over JMU 14-9
4G 0A 44%SH 2TO 0CT 0DC

Moreno - Team win over JMU 14-9
9SV 9GA 50%SV

That is my order on who had the best weekend making her case for the Tewy. North vs. Scane is really close, but I think North gets the edge because of DCs, shot % and lack of TOs. As a goalie, Moreno really needs to do something extraordinary to pass CN and IS. Having said that, her path to the Tewy (hate to say it) probably involves JO continuing to put up so-so numbers and then standing on her head in the championship game against NU. So in that sense, it was a good start for TM.

If you need more evidence on why CN had the better weekend, check out the highlights below. Yes, Izzy scores a lot of goals, but I have never seen her do anything like this:
https://twitter.com/BCwlax/status/13939 ... 08548?s=20
https://twitter.com/BCwlax/status/13940 ... 47587?s=20
https://twitter.com/BCwlax/status/13932 ... 91810?s=20

Here are some updated numbers from the weekend.

North - Team win over ND 21-10
8G 1A 73%SH 2TO 0CT 7DC 73%TeamDC

Ortega - Team win over SB 14-11
4G 3A 57%SH 2TO 1CT 0DC

Scane - Team win over Duke 22-10
5G 2A 50%SH 6TO 1CT 1DC

Moreno Team win over SB 14-11
8SV 11GA 42%SV

That is my order on who had the best weekend. North set the NCAA record for tournament goals with one or two more games to go. She is averaging 7.7 GPG and shooting 72% for the tournament. I don't follow NU closely enough to understand why IS consistently has a lower shooting % than CN and JO. That is part of why I ranked her below JO this week. She also did not help her case with 6 TOs and 2 yellow cards yesterday. Again, North leading her team to domination on DCs is a big plus. I suppose you could make a case for JO having a better day based on more assists in a tight game, but goals, DCs and shot % cinch it for CN. Moreno will need a huge final four to have a chance.

The Tewaaraton committee is comprised of coaches. Ain't a coach in America who wouldn't take yesterday's outcome for North and her team. The other three finalists lost yesterday. North played against the best defense and the best goalie in America on a team that hadn't lost in two years. The fact that she hit a pipe and that Moreno made a couple of nice saves on her means absolutely zippo in the big pictures of the team win and North's overall performance this season. As Uncle Joe would say, "C'mon man."

Having said that, there's no way to sugar coat the DC performance yesterday. As you all know, I am a massive fan of North's success on draw controls. That has been a big factor in BC's success this year. Until yesterday, the team had not lost the DC battle all year, including against some of the top DC specialists in the country. Hey, even TD, Trevor and Nardella have off days sometimes. It happens. I've always viewed CN's DC prowess to be icing on the cake. I've been saying for weeks that if it's roughly a tie on offensive performance between North and Scane, the committee has to give it to North because of her historic DC performance.

JO and TM had nice seasons, but they have no chance. Right now Scane has 98 goals and North has 96. Scane has taken a mind-boggling 194 shots and has significantly more turnovers than North. North has needed only 152 shots to produce 96 goals. This competition is over. As much as the #countless crowd wishes otherwise, North has already won the Tewaaraton. Goals + shooting % + DCs + team going further in the tournament = 2 Tewys for BC in 3 seasons. Giddy up!!!

Just to be consistent, I have updated the stats I have provided after each tournament round.

North - Team win over UNC 11-10
2G 1A 25%SH 1TO 0CT 0DC 30%TeamDC
Tournament totals:
25G 2A 63%SH 3TO 2CT 60%TeamDC

Scane - Team loss to Syracuse 13-21
4G 3A 44%SH 3TO 0CT 1DC
Tournament totals:
17G 8A 52%SH 11TO 1CT

Ortega - Team loss to BC 10-11
1G 2A 25%SH 2TO 0CT 0DC

Moreno Team loss to BC 10-11
8SV 11GA 42%SV

you should probably mention that BC had an extra game in the tournament compared to NU, SYR and UNC who had bye's. North had 7 goals and 10 DC's against Fairfield in the 1st game, so to be fair, there's some stat inflation compared to the others. In other words, you are using total stats from 4 games for BC versus stats for 3 games for the others. Oh, and BC played Temple in the 2nd game and she had 8 goals in that one...so yeah, a little bit of stat stuffing...but she's already won the award so it doesn't matter

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 4:54 pm The Tewaaraton committee is comprised of coaches. Ain't a coach in America who wouldn't take yesterday's outcome for North and her team. The other three finalists lost yesterday. North played against the best defense and the best goalie in America on a team that hadn't lost in two years. The fact that she hit a pipe and that Moreno made a couple of nice saves on her means absolutely zippo in the big pictures of the team win and North's overall performance this season. As Uncle Joe would say, "C'mon man."

Having said that, there's no way to sugar coat the DC performance yesterday. As you all know, I am a massive fan of North's success on draw controls. That has been a big factor in BC's success this year. Until yesterday, the team had not lost the DC battle all year, including against some of the top DC specialists in the country. Hey, even TD, Trevor and Nardella have off days sometimes. It happens. I've always viewed CN's DC prowess to be icing on the cake. I've been saying for weeks that if it's roughly a tie on offensive performance between North and Scane, the committee has to give it to North because of her historic DC performance.

JO and TM had nice seasons, but they have no chance. Right now Scane has 98 goals and North has 96. Scane has taken a mind-boggling 194 shots and has significantly more turnovers than North. North has needed only 152 shots to produce 96 goals. This competition is over. As much as the #countless crowd wishes otherwise, North has already won the Tewaaraton. Goals + shooting % + DCs + team going further in the tournament = 2 Tewys for BC in 3 seasons. Giddy up!!!

Just to be consistent, I have updated the stats I have provided after each tournament round.

North - Team win over UNC 11-10
2G 1A 25%SH 1TO 0CT 0DC 30%TeamDC
Tournament totals:
25G 2A 63%SH 3TO 2CT 60%TeamDC

Scane - Team loss to Syracuse 13-21
4G 3A 44%SH 3TO 0CT 1DC
Tournament totals:
17G 8A 52%SH 11TO 1CT

Ortega - Team loss to BC 10-11
1G 2A 25%SH 2TO 0CT 0DC

Moreno Team loss to BC 10-11
8SV 11GA 42%SV

North couldn't have a better PR rep than CO. Just kidding. Love your passion and support for BC and North.

But . . . .

A bit of a straw man at the outset there. Would a coach take a win over a loss? Hmm. Let me ponder that one for a bit.

BC won yesterday in spite of not because of North. If Hall hadn't been all world and had she allowed in a few more goals, the big story today would be that North choked. Even Cletus would be cuing his choked videos.

Are the team results yesterday of the respective Tewaaraton finalists relevant? Yes. As relevant as the finalists' performances? I say no.

Kudos to you for your DC comments.

Whether or not you think she hurt the team offensively (debatable), she didn't play at her normal level. She didn't play like a Tewaaraton winner. One game (good or bad) shouldn't make or break a candidacy, but it isn't meaningless.

I don't think the competition is "over." Unless a plurality of the committee members have already decided to vote for North (possible of course), then the award is still up in the air.

I also don't think Ortega is out, though she may be close to being on life support now.

The Tewaaraton is a comparatively new award. Only been awarded 19 times. Just looked it up: 13 were awarded to players on the winning team; four to losing finalists; and two to losing semi-finalists. Couldn't find the Tewaaraton finalists in 2002, but of the other five times someone not on the winning team won the award, on four occasions there was a T finalist on the winning team. Both times someone on a losing semifinalist won, there were T finalists on both teams in the NCAA finals.

Here's a bit of Tewaaraton trivia for you (worthy of a Cletus deep dive). Both times Katie Schwarzmann won the award Maryland didn't win the title (TL asked me to be sure to point that out). In 2012 her team lost to NU in the semis. In 2013 Md. lost to UNC in the finals.

Trivia item 2: with the caveat that I couldn't find the 2002 finalists, the only time the NCAA winner didn't have a T finalist was 2016.

So there is precedent for someone like Ortega or Scane to win. And, of course, there have been some number of "upsets" in the past.

You have very ably laid out the case in North's favor. On the other side of the ledger is the lingering feeling of some that she hogs the ball and celebrates too exuberantly. Will any committee members not vote for her for those reasons? Don't know.

She has been shut down twice now by Emma Trenchard. Disqualifying? No, but it hurts her case.

She had a bad game in the biggest game of her life, in the national semifinals. I think that can be almost entirely washed away if she has a big game tomorrow regardless of who wins. If she lays another egg, I think two eggs in a row in the two most important games is close to a disqualifier.

I think the race is now pretty much neck and neck between Scane and North. If North has a big game and if BC wins tomorrow, I expect she will win the Tewaaraton. And even if BC loses, I think North wins the T if she has a strong game. If BC loses AND North has a bad game, I think that opens the door for Scane and maybe Ortega if there is a lot of Ortega/NC love on the committee.

For me, I'd like to see Ortega win, but I am OK with any of these three.

Boy, nj, you are crazy harsh on CN, IMO. BC won in spite of Charlotte? Opening draw, CN doesn't win it to herself but she directs the ball to a teammate who comes up with the ball. First possession, she'd get a hockey assist if it were hockey. Backs up a shot that goes out, brings it into play and draws the double out front, swings the ball, shifts the D, pass, pass, shot, score. Nothing shows up in the books there for CN....so much for stats. If BC won despite CN being an anchor, what's that say about the UNC team? To these eyes, CN has been the best player in D1 wlax all year, she's an incredible player who puts the D on their heels every time the ball is in her stick. I don't know how you can downplay how good she really is. Won in spite of, played small? C'mon.

Ok, in spite of may be a bit much, but it certainly wasn’t because of. Certainly not “crazy harsh.” And she certainly played small.

You think she had a good game?

Yes, she has been one of the best players this year. That’s why she’s a finalist. But she had a bad game yesterday. So did Ortega. So did Moreno.

Hall had a great game. So did Medjid.

If someone has a great game, I’ll say so. If they have a bad game, I’ll say that too. I don’t care what team you’re on.

I understand why the BC fans are defending her. Why are you? Oh, reverse jinx for tomorrow. I get it.

If North has a great game tomorrow, I’ll say so. If she has another bad game, I’ll say that too.

Lots of words about North, NJB, but I can’t figure out why you think IS deserves to win. Your argument seems to boil down to CN had one bad game and maybe will have a second one. I have avoided criticizing the competition, unlike the #countless crowd, but what has Izzy done to deserve the Tewy over North? Not saying she isn’t a terrific player, but she simply has not had as good a year as North. It is telling that despite hours of research on this topic, you can’t make a single argument about why IS has had a better season. What is the case? Two more goals on the season? Two more goals yesterday in a game in which your team was demolished? Shooting % doesn’t matter? 5X the turnovers in the tournament is less of a choke than hitting the pipe on a shot? More assists trump 170 DCs? Of course I am exaggerating slightly because you did cite the hard fact of excessive cellies. It really goes back to why I got so wrapped up in defending North for the entire season. There is still a really creepy undercurrent of dislike for her. My goodness. She is 22 years old and playing her heart out. I get passion around sports. I deeply hated the Yankees for decades, but even I grew to admire Jeter and Mariano.

It’s over. North won. Short of netting three own goals and getting ejected for fighting, she will get the trophy. At this point I think even Kerstin Kimel is voting for her. If the Dookies can tip their caps, I know you can, too.

Do I think she had a good game? No, not in comparison to what we've come to expect from her but as you agree, I thought "in spite of" was indeed harsh (overly) criticism.
I'm not really advocating for or defending any of the finalists, njb, I've just been surprised by your fault finding in CN's play. I never realized you are a UNC fan, I've always found your posts to be fairly objective and agree with most of what you say which is why I have found your North critiques surprising. I get it now, you are defending your faves....doesn't make you a bad person. I was on the list of folks who said this UNC team is flawless and unbeatable, I went so far as to say they reminded me of the '88, '89, '90 SU mlaxers....weren't nobody gonna beat them. Take any player from UNC and swap her for North. Does BC make it to yesterday's and tomorrow's game? Does UNC get beat yesterday? Again, to these eyes North is the single most dominant player in the game, game in and game out (every one/team is going to have a day/game when it all isn't clicking quite right.....why I don't like seeing teams come into the post season undefeated), which is not to say I don't see these other gals as being mighty good and talented players as well. If we were on the field choosing teams, I'd pick Charlotte first.

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:20 pm Lots of words about North, NJB, but I can’t figure out why you think IS deserves to win. Your argument seems to boil down to CN had one bad game and maybe will have a second one. I have avoided criticizing the competition, unlike the #countless crowd, but what has Izzy done to deserve the Tewy over North? Not saying she isn’t a terrific player, but she simply has not had as good a year as North. It is telling that despite hours of research on this topic, you can’t make a single argument about why IS has had a better season. What is the case? Two more goals on the season? Two more goals yesterday in a game in which your team was demolished? Shooting % doesn’t matter? 5X the turnovers in the tournament is less of a choke than hitting the pipe on a shot? More assists trump 170 DCs? Of course I am exaggerating slightly because you did cite the hard fact of excessive cellies. It really goes back to why I got so wrapped up in defending North for the entire season. There is still a really creepy undercurrent of dislike for her. My goodness. She is 22 years old and playing her heart out. I get passion around sports. I deeply hated the Yankees for decades, but even I grew to admire Jeter and Mariano.

It’s over. North won. Short of netting three own goals and getting ejected for fighting, she will get the trophy. At this point I think even Kerstin Kimel is voting for her. If the Dookies can tip their caps, I know you can, too.

Yikes, CO that is some diatribe.

I'm not advocating for Scane. Where do you get that from? I'll save you time. You won't find anything I've written in that regard.

What I said was that if North has another bad game tomorrow, she will have had two bad games in a row in the two most important games of the year. That in my mind could open the door for Scane or Ortega. That's it. I said if North has a strong game tomorrow, she'll probably win.

You have rather materially misread what I have written. Not sure why. Puzzling really.

"Hours of research"? On what? Tewaaraton history? The thrust of that was to simply point out that about 1/3 of the time the T winner isn't on the team that wins the Natty. Could apply to North if BC loses, or to Scane or Ortega.

Creepy undercurrent? To be frank, I think you are crossing a line there. I think I will just leave it at that.

I started this line of posts by saying North had a bad game yesterday because she did. To me that is not subject to reasonable debate. What is open for reasonable debate is what impact the performances of the respective Tewaaraton finalists in yesterday's games may have on who wins the award.

If it's over, why do you keep going on and on?

Good news is, if JO, IS, & CN all choose to take their extra year of eligibility, we could get to do this all over again next year with some potential new blood in the mix too

DMac wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:46 pm Do I think she had a good game? No, not in comparison to what we've come to expect from her but as you agree, I thought "in spite of" was indeed harsh (overly) criticism.
I'm not really advocating for or defending any of the finalists, njb, I've just been surprised by your fault finding in CN's play. I never realized you are a UNC fan, I've always found your posts to be fairly objective and agree with most of what you say which is why I have found your North critiques surprising. I get it now, you are defending your faves....doesn't make you a bad person. I was on the list of folks who said this UNC team is flawless and unbeatable, I went so far as to say they reminded me of the '88, '89, '90 SU mlaxers....weren't nobody gonna beat them. Take any player from UNC and swap her for North. Does BC make it to yesterday's and tomorrow's game? Does UNC get beat yesterday? Again, to these eyes North is the single most dominant player in the game, game in and game out (every one/team is going to have a day/game when it all isn't clicking quite right.....why I don't like seeing teams come into the post season undefeated), which is not to say I don't see these other gals as being mighty good and talented players as well. If we were on the field choosing teams, I'd pick Charlotte first.

DMac, in one sentence you agree North didn't have a good game, but in a later sentence you say you are surprised I'm finding fault in her play. I was commenting on her play in the UNC game, which you agree was subpar for her. So it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement.

I'll put this back to you and to CO as well. What specific thing did I say about North's performance yesterday that you disagree with?

I'm not a UNC fan like I'm a Moorestown fan or an Eagles fan. I rooted for them when McCool was there and Chumney before her. I generally root for college teams with Moorestown grads. Sometimes I root for other players (and their teams) I saw and came to like in high school, like Aldave and Jenner. I was rooting for UNC this year because I like the way they play the game. Passing, finesse, good shooting. Not much of the physicality and thuggery that's so prevalent today.

In commenting on North's play, I'm not defending my faves, as I might be if we were talking Moorestown vs. Mendham (that's for seacoaster's benefit). You may see it that way, but I can tell you I'm not. I criticized North's play in ONE GAME, a game in which she didn't play well. Don't think I have been critical of her play otherwise. Too lazy to find my exact post, but I do remember saying she had a great game in BC's quarterfinal game.

Trading players? Who gets picked first on the playground? Meh. Don't really care about that. Not trying to diminish what you said. Just doesn't interest me.

wlaxphan20 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:04 pm Good news is, if JO, IS, & CN all choose to take their extra year of eligibility, we could get to do this all over again next year with some potential new blood in the mix too

JO has already said she is coming back. IS is only a junior. I agree with others who have said they think CN will be back.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm not going to go back and look either, but I thought you had been critical of her in past games as well. My comment about your criticism of her play wasn't restricted to just yesterday's game. It's all good and none of this is real important to me, I don't really care who wins it and regardless of who does I'll still think CN is the most dominant player in the league.

njbill wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:00 pm

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 9:20 pm Lots of words about North, NJB, but I can’t figure out why you think IS deserves to win. Your argument seems to boil down to CN had one bad game and maybe will have a second one. I have avoided criticizing the competition, unlike the #countless crowd, but what has Izzy done to deserve the Tewy over North? Not saying she isn’t a terrific player, but she simply has not had as good a year as North. It is telling that despite hours of research on this topic, you can’t make a single argument about why IS has had a better season. What is the case? Two more goals on the season? Two more goals yesterday in a game in which your team was demolished? Shooting % doesn’t matter? 5X the turnovers in the tournament is less of a choke than hitting the pipe on a shot? More assists trump 170 DCs? Of course I am exaggerating slightly because you did cite the hard fact of excessive cellies. It really goes back to why I got so wrapped up in defending North for the entire season. There is still a really creepy undercurrent of dislike for her. My goodness. She is 22 years old and playing her heart out. I get passion around sports. I deeply hated the Yankees for decades, but even I grew to admire Jeter and Mariano.

It’s over. North won. Short of netting three own goals and getting ejected for fighting, she will get the trophy. At this point I think even Kerstin Kimel is voting for her. If the Dookies can tip their caps, I know you can, too.

Yikes, CO that is some diatribe.

I'm not advocating for Scane. Where do you get that from? I'll save you time. You won't find anything I've written in that regard.

What I said was that if North has another bad game tomorrow, she will have had two bad games in a row in the two most important games of the year. That in my mind could open the door for Scane or Ortega. That's it. I said if North has a strong game tomorrow, she'll probably win.

You have rather materially misread what I have written. Not sure why. Puzzling really.

"Hours of research"? On what? Tewaaraton history? The thrust of that was to simply point out that about 1/3 of the time the T winner isn't on the team that wins the Natty. Could apply to North if BC loses, or to Scane or Ortega.

Creepy undercurrent? To be frank, I think you are crossing a line there. I think I will just leave it at that.

I started this line of posts by saying North had a bad game yesterday because she did. To me that is not subject to reasonable debate. What is open for reasonable debate is what impact the performances of the respective Tewaaraton finalists in yesterday's games may have on who wins the award.

If it's over, why do you keep going on and on?

I always appreciate your thoughtful input here, but it feels as if you have gone a little too far with this line of criticism. My reference to hours of research is not about Tewaaraton history. I actually did most of that analysis several weeks ago and posted it here. So if you’re crazy, so am I. My concern is much more over re-watching the entire game and taking notes to prove how bad North performed. Maybe creepy is one ratchet too far, but it’s at least kinda weird. I am fascinated by how far otherwise rational folks will go in criticizing this young woman. Can you name any other female athlete who has been the target of so much negativity on this forum? Sincere question. That’s where things get very curious. You are a thoughtful guy, so I am honestly interested in why you think there is such unprecedented negativity. It goes beyond cellies or selfishness. As has been well documented, another one of the finalists by almost any definition is more selfish than North with the ball.

‘I think the race is now pretty much neck and neck between Scane and North.“ Fair enough, this is technically not direct advocacy for Scane. It does mean that you believe their performances through the season to date are roughly equal. You have not presented any back-up for that statement. Even this most recent post spends more time criticizing me than providing any facts. You have tried to set up this construct where because those two athletes have basically identical track records to date, the final award comes down to just one last game for North. That is of course absurd to potentially ding an athlete for leading her team to the championship game while the other finalists are watching on TV. By your logic North is probably better off sitting out the championship game rather than risking laying an egg. This is all fun barroom banter, and I know your intentions are not evil.

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:54 pm I always appreciate your thoughtful input here, but it feels as if you have gone a little too far with this line of criticism. My reference to hours of research is not about Tewaaraton history. I actually did most of that analysis several weeks ago and posted it here. So if you’re crazy, so am I. My concern is much more over re-watching the entire game and taking notes to prove how bad North performed. Maybe creepy is one ratchet too far, but it’s at least kinda weird. I am fascinated by how far otherwise rational folks will go in criticizing this young woman. Can you name any other female athlete who has been the target of so much negativity on this forum? Sincere question. That’s where things get very curious. You are a thoughtful guy, so I am honestly interested in why you think there is such unprecedented negativity. It goes beyond cellies or selfishness. As has been well documented, another one of the finalists by almost any definition is more selfish than North with the ball.

‘I think the race is now pretty much neck and neck between Scane and North.“ Fair enough, this is technically not direct advocacy for Scane. It does mean that you believe their performances through the season to date are roughly equal. You have not presented any back-up for that statement. Even this most recent post spends more time criticizing me than providing any facts. You have tried to set up this construct where because those two athletes have basically identical track records to date, the final award comes down to just one last game for North. That is of course absurd to potentially ding an athlete for leading her team to the championship game while the other finalists are watching on TV. By your logic North is probably better off sitting out the championship game rather than risking laying an egg. This is all fun barroom banter, and I know your intentions are not evil.

You are mistaken about why I rewatched the game and took notes. Please re-read the pertinent posts. I rewatched the game and took notes in response to a poster's comment that UNC's shots had been stick side. So I rewatched, charted the shots, and then posted what I found. My reason for rewatching the game had nothing to do with North, though I did make a few mental notes about her since her play had become a subject of discussion on this board.

Yes, I can. Megan Whittle. Don't know if you were on LP back then.

That's right, I haven't put together a Brandeis brief in support of Scane. That is because I am not advocating for her. I would like Ortega to win, but my feelings in that regard are not nearly strong enough for me to take the time to put together a post arguing her case.

Didn't know I was setting up a construct, but, yes, as I have said, I thought going into the weekend Scane, Ortega, and North were pretty equal, and now that it is close between Scane and North. (Don't care enough about this to back up those statements with stats, videos, etc.) You don't agree with that, which is fine. If I'm correct about that (and, again, I know you disagree), then their respective performances in the semis and finals could well be important in deciding who the winner is. Good performances help. Bad performances hurt. Pretty simple.

njbill wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 11:44 pm

Can Opener wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:54 pm I am fascinated by how far otherwise rational folks will go in criticizing this young woman. Can you name any other female athlete who has been the target of so much negativity on this forum? Sincere question.

Yes, I can. Megan Whittle. Don't know if you were on LP back then.

Are you referring to this Bill? And the controversy about her having the reputation of flopping?

Yes, that’s an example. The negativity directed towards Whittle was much greater than any negativity directed towards North.

njbill wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:37 pm

wlaxphan20 wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 10:04 pm Good news is, if JO, IS, & CN all choose to take their extra year of eligibility, we could get to do this all over again next year with some potential new blood in the mix too

JO has already said she is coming back. IS is only a junior. I agree with others who have said they think CN will be back.

I know IS was definite, but I wasn't 100% certain on JO, thank you! I agree with others on CN as well.

njbill wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 9:43 am Yes, that’s an example. The negativity directed towards Whittle was much greater than any negativity directed towards North.

Flopping has been rampant ever since contact with the head became an automatic yellow and got worse when the dangerous propel/dangerous shot became a point of emphasis. It was not exclusive to Whittle, but I agree, she drew so much more criticism than any other player. Unfortunately she was the best attacker on the best team in the country and had more eyes on her.

edit: and I think this says more about the clarity of the rules and the consistency at which they are called than the actual players themselves

the flopping stops when the refs are more consistent with dishing yellows on the hard fouls and swipes in the halo. They should have called another 4 YC's on NU yesterday, at least. The attackers feel like they need to enhance the foul (flop) because the refs miss a fair amount or are reluctant to call it. I know it's a chicken & egg type thing, but until there is consistency you'll have flopping. It should also be a non-releasable YC every time a defender throws their hands up like they didn't do anything after cracking someone in the head.

It is a chicken and egg thing.

My preference would be that the refs call every check to the head, as is required by the rules. If you watch enough games, I think you can get a pretty good sense for when a player really was hit and when she is faking it. Here’s one thing I look for. If a player is hit in the face and she instantaneously grabs her mouth or nose, to me that is a pretty good indication she actually was hit. But if a player waits a beat or two before grabbing her head, that is a tip off of a flop.

So call all the checks to the head that are committed. But also warn then card floppers.

I am conflicted about whether college should institute the high school rule that a team has to play man down for the rest of the game after the fourth card. I think it is a good rule, but I would worry that refs would be even more reluctant to issue a fourth (and subsequent) card.

8meterPA wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 10:39 am the flopping stops when the refs are more consistent with dishing yellows on the hard fouls and swipes in the halo. They should have called another 4 YC's on NU yesterday, at least. The attackers feel like they need to enhance the foul (flop) because the refs miss a fair amount or are reluctant to call it. I know it's a chicken & egg type thing, but until there is consistency you'll have flopping. It should also be a non-releasable YC every time a defender throws their hands up like they didn't do anything after cracking someone in the head.

I tend to agree with you & njbill. I think a lot of it stems from lack of clarity with the rules and how consistently games are called! Officials already have a hard job and I don't mean to be overly critical of them..It's the way the rules are written and the weight of the consequences of the fouls as well. I think waiting until the 4th YC to make it non-releasable is too many, 3rd may be better.

and to your point "throws their hands up like they didn't do anything after cracking someone in the head" OR throws their hands up because they've been doing it all year and this is the first or second time it's ever been called.