January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[Farfromgeneva]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

And why don't they? As a taxpayer, I am funding the education of these public servants. That is what they are, they are servants -- they serve our nation. They volunteer to "serve" our nation, and, in fact, like all public servants, swear an oath to uphold and defend our Constitution. In return, we educate them and offer attractive pay packages and retirement, not to mention comprehensive medical, although I do think that the combat wounded get royally scr3wed over --- we need fewer yellow ribbons on cars and better benefits for the disabled vets.

So, I want my public servants extremely well-educated. I want a complete education, not some watered-down, incomplete STEM nonsense. If the officers can't grasp or don't want this sort of education, then they should look elsewhere for an education and job. Military service in our volunteer force is a privilege, not an entitlement.

Some people will never understand. OS will be a caricature in a contemporary follow up to Spoon River Anthology. That’s where the rejection of anything incomprehensible by some becomes such a macabre joke on all of society. Beckett or Flannery O’Conner couldn’t make up the stuff we see on these boards.

[Farfromgeneva]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

And why don't they? As a taxpayer, I am funding the education of these public servants. That is what they are, they are servants -- they serve our nation. They volunteer to "serve" our nation, and, in fact, like all public servants, swear an oath to uphold and defend our Constitution. In return, we educate them and offer attractive pay packages and retirement, not to mention comprehensive medical, although I do think that the combat wounded get royally scr3wed over --- we need fewer yellow ribbons on cars and better benefits for the disabled vets.

So, I want my public servants extremely well-educated. I want a complete education, not some watered-down, incomplete STEM nonsense. If the officers can't grasp or don't want this sort of education, then they should look elsewhere for an education and job. Military service in our volunteer force is a privilege, not an entitlement.

Not only is this post supremely obnoxious, it’s weirdly naive.

That’s an odd combination, rarely seen in these parts.

"Not only is this post supremely obnoxious"

Pot, I'd like you to meet kettle.

Some folks are introspective and have empathy, many more are full of nothing by self congratulatory megalomania. I respect the Black Swan when told by dullards that they don’t exist for a 1,000yrs rather than reject reality like some who have to claim they are things because they were given everything and it is necessary to feed their self worth.

[seacoaster]

Remarkable article about Administration complicity in and encouragement of the violent takeover of the Capitol on the day of certification:

https://www.propublica.org/article/new- ... et-chaotic

“ProPublica has obtained new details about the Trump White House’s knowledge of the gathering storm, after interviewing more than 50 people involved in the events of Jan. 6 and reviewing months of private correspondence. Taken together, these accounts suggest that senior Trump aides had been warned the Jan. 6 events could turn chaotic, with tens of thousands of people potentially overwhelming ill-prepared law enforcement officials.

Rather than trying to halt the march, Trump and his allies accommodated its leaders, according to text messages and interviews with Republican operatives and officials.

Katrina Pierson, a former Trump campaign official assigned by the White House to take charge of the rally planning, helped arrange a deal where those organizers deemed too extreme to speak at the Ellipse could do so on the night of Jan. 5. That event ended up including incendiary speeches from Jones and Ali Alexander, the leader of Stop the Steal, who fired up his followers with a chant of “Victory or death!”

The record of what White House officials knew about Jan. 6 and when they knew it remains incomplete. Key officials, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, declined to be interviewed for this story.

The second impeachment of President Trump focused mostly on his public statements, including his Jan. 6 exhortation that the crowd march on the Capitol and “fight like hell.” Trump was acquitted by the Senate, and his lawyers insisted that the attack on the Capitol was both regrettable and unforeseeable.

Rally organizers interviewed by ProPublica said they did not expect Jan. 6 to culminate with the violent sacking of the Capitol. But they acknowledged they were worried about plans by the Stop the Steal movement to organize an unpermitted march that would reach the steps of the building as Congress gathered to certify the election results.

One of the Women for America First organizers told ProPublica he and his group felt they needed to urgently warn the White House of the possible danger.

“A last-minute march, without a permit, without all the metro police that’d usually be there to fortify the perimeter, felt unsafe,” Dustin Stockton said in a recent interview.

“And these people aren’t there for a heck flower contest,” added Jennifer Lynn Lawrence, Stockton’s fiancee and co-organizer. “They’re there because they’re angry.”

Stockton said he and Kremer initially took their concerns to Pierson. Feeling that they weren’t gaining enough traction, Stockton said, he and Kremer agreed to call Meadows directly.

Kremer, who has a personal relationship with Meadows dating back to his early days in Congress, said she would handle the matter herself. Soon after, Kremer told Stockton “the White House would take care of it,” which he interpreted to mean she had contacted top officials about the march.

Kremer denied that she ever spoke with Meadows or any other White House official about her Jan. 6 concerns. “Also, no one on my team was talking to them that I was aware of,” she said in an email to ProPublica. Meadows declined to comment on whether he’d been contacted.

A Dec. 27 text from Kremer obtained by ProPublica casts doubt on her assertion. Written at a time when her group was pressing to control the upcoming Jan. 6 rally, it refers to Alexander and Cindy Chafian, an activist who worked closely with Alex Jones. “The WH and team Trump are aware of the situation with Ali and Cindy,” Kremer wrote. “I need to be the one to handle both.” Kremer did not answer questions from ProPublica about the text.

So far, congressional and law enforcement reconstructions of Jan. 6 have established failures of preparedness and intelligence sharing by the U.S. Capitol Police, the FBI and the Pentagon, which is responsible for deploying the D.C. National Guard.

But those reports have not addressed the role of White House officials in the unfolding events and whether officials took appropriate action before or during the rally. Legislation that would have authorized an independent commission to investigate further was quashed by Senate Republicans.

….

Our reporting raises new questions that will not be answered unless Trump insiders tell the story of that day. It remains unclear, for example, precisely what Meadows and other White House officials learned of safety concerns about the march and whether they took those reports seriously.

The former president has a well-established pattern of bolstering far-right groups while he and his aides attempt to maintain some distance. Following the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Trump at first appeared to tacitly support torch-bearing white supremacists, later backing off. And in one presidential debate, he appeared to offer encouragement to the Proud Boys, a group of street brawlers who claim to protect Trump supporters, his statement triggering a dramatic spike in their recruitment. Trump later disavowed his support.

ProPublica has learned that White House officials worked behind the scenes to prevent the leaders of the march from appearing on stage and embarrassing the president. But Trump then undid those efforts with his speech, urging the crowd to join the march on the Capitol organized by the very people who had been blocked from speaking.

“And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore,” he said.

On Nov. 5, as Joe Biden began to emerge as the likely winner of the 2020 presidential election, a far-right provocateur named Ali Alexander assembled a loose collection of right-wing activists to help Trump maintain the presidency.

Alexander approached the cause of overturning the election with an almost messianic fervor. In private text messages, he obsessed over gaining attention from Trump and strategized about how to draw large, angry crowds in support of him.

On Nov. 7, the group held simultaneous protests in all 50 states.

Seven days later, its members traveled to Washington for the Million MAGA March, which drew tens of thousands. The event is now considered by many to be a precursor of Jan. 6.

Alexander united them under the battle cry “Stop the Steal,” a phrase originally coined by former Trump adviser Roger Stone, whom Alexander has called a friend. (Stone launched a short-lived organization of the same name in 2016.) To draw such crowds, Alexander made clear Stop the Steal would collaborate with anyone who supported its cause, no matter how extreme their views.

“We’re willing to work with racists,” he said on one livestream in December. Alexander did not return requests for comment made by email, by voicemail, to his recent attorney or to Stop the Steal PAC’s designated agent.

As he worked to expand his influence, Alexander found a valuable ally in Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist at the helm of the popular far-right website InfoWars. Jones, who first gained notoriety for spreading a lie that the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax, had once counted more than 2 million YouTube subscribers and 800,000 Twitter followers before being banned from both platforms.

Alexander also collaborated with Nick Fuentes, the 22-year-old leader of the white nationalist “Groyper” movement.

“Thirty percent of that crowd was Alex Jones’ crowd,” Alexander said on another livestream, referring to the Million MAGA March on Nov. 14. “And there were thousands and thousands of Groypers — America First young white men. … Even if you thought these were bad people, why can’t bad people do good tasks? Why can’t bad people fight for their country?”

[Farfromgeneva]

Remarkable article about Administration complicity in and encouragement of the violent takeover of the Capitol on the day of certification:

https://www.propublica.org/article/new- ... et-chaotic

“ProPublica has obtained new details about the Trump White House’s knowledge of the gathering storm, after interviewing more than 50 people involved in the events of Jan. 6 and reviewing months of private correspondence. Taken together, these accounts suggest that senior Trump aides had been warned the Jan. 6 events could turn chaotic, with tens of thousands of people potentially overwhelming ill-prepared law enforcement officials.

Rather than trying to halt the march, Trump and his allies accommodated its leaders, according to text messages and interviews with Republican operatives and officials.

Katrina Pierson, a former Trump campaign official assigned by the White House to take charge of the rally planning, helped arrange a deal where those organizers deemed too extreme to speak at the Ellipse could do so on the night of Jan. 5. That event ended up including incendiary speeches from Jones and Ali Alexander, the leader of Stop the Steal, who fired up his followers with a chant of “Victory or death!”

The record of what White House officials knew about Jan. 6 and when they knew it remains incomplete. Key officials, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, declined to be interviewed for this story.

The second impeachment of President Trump focused mostly on his public statements, including his Jan. 6 exhortation that the crowd march on the Capitol and “fight like hell.” Trump was acquitted by the Senate, and his lawyers insisted that the attack on the Capitol was both regrettable and unforeseeable.

Rally organizers interviewed by ProPublica said they did not expect Jan. 6 to culminate with the violent sacking of the Capitol. But they acknowledged they were worried about plans by the Stop the Steal movement to organize an unpermitted march that would reach the steps of the building as Congress gathered to certify the election results.

One of the Women for America First organizers told ProPublica he and his group felt they needed to urgently warn the White House of the possible danger.

“A last-minute march, without a permit, without all the metro police that’d usually be there to fortify the perimeter, felt unsafe,” Dustin Stockton said in a recent interview.

“And these people aren’t there for a heck flower contest,” added Jennifer Lynn Lawrence, Stockton’s fiancee and co-organizer. “They’re there because they’re angry.”

Stockton said he and Kremer initially took their concerns to Pierson. Feeling that they weren’t gaining enough traction, Stockton said, he and Kremer agreed to call Meadows directly.

Kremer, who has a personal relationship with Meadows dating back to his early days in Congress, said she would handle the matter herself. Soon after, Kremer told Stockton “the White House would take care of it,” which he interpreted to mean she had contacted top officials about the march.

Kremer denied that she ever spoke with Meadows or any other White House official about her Jan. 6 concerns. “Also, no one on my team was talking to them that I was aware of,” she said in an email to ProPublica. Meadows declined to comment on whether he’d been contacted.

A Dec. 27 text from Kremer obtained by ProPublica casts doubt on her assertion. Written at a time when her group was pressing to control the upcoming Jan. 6 rally, it refers to Alexander and Cindy Chafian, an activist who worked closely with Alex Jones. “The WH and team Trump are aware of the situation with Ali and Cindy,” Kremer wrote. “I need to be the one to handle both.” Kremer did not answer questions from ProPublica about the text.

So far, congressional and law enforcement reconstructions of Jan. 6 have established failures of preparedness and intelligence sharing by the U.S. Capitol Police, the FBI and the Pentagon, which is responsible for deploying the D.C. National Guard.

But those reports have not addressed the role of White House officials in the unfolding events and whether officials took appropriate action before or during the rally. Legislation that would have authorized an independent commission to investigate further was quashed by Senate Republicans.

….

Our reporting raises new questions that will not be answered unless Trump insiders tell the story of that day. It remains unclear, for example, precisely what Meadows and other White House officials learned of safety concerns about the march and whether they took those reports seriously.

The former president has a well-established pattern of bolstering far-right groups while he and his aides attempt to maintain some distance. Following the 2017 “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Trump at first appeared to tacitly support torch-bearing white supremacists, later backing off. And in one presidential debate, he appeared to offer encouragement to the Proud Boys, a group of street brawlers who claim to protect Trump supporters, his statement triggering a dramatic spike in their recruitment. Trump later disavowed his support.

ProPublica has learned that White House officials worked behind the scenes to prevent the leaders of the march from appearing on stage and embarrassing the president. But Trump then undid those efforts with his speech, urging the crowd to join the march on the Capitol organized by the very people who had been blocked from speaking.

“And if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore,” he said.

On Nov. 5, as Joe Biden began to emerge as the likely winner of the 2020 presidential election, a far-right provocateur named Ali Alexander assembled a loose collection of right-wing activists to help Trump maintain the presidency.

Alexander approached the cause of overturning the election with an almost messianic fervor. In private text messages, he obsessed over gaining attention from Trump and strategized about how to draw large, angry crowds in support of him.

On Nov. 7, the group held simultaneous protests in all 50 states.

Seven days later, its members traveled to Washington for the Million MAGA March, which drew tens of thousands. The event is now considered by many to be a precursor of Jan. 6.

Alexander united them under the battle cry “Stop the Steal,” a phrase originally coined by former Trump adviser Roger Stone, whom Alexander has called a friend. (Stone launched a short-lived organization of the same name in 2016.) To draw such crowds, Alexander made clear Stop the Steal would collaborate with anyone who supported its cause, no matter how extreme their views.

“We’re willing to work with racists,” he said on one livestream in December. Alexander did not return requests for comment made by email, by voicemail, to his recent attorney or to Stop the Steal PAC’s designated agent.

As he worked to expand his influence, Alexander found a valuable ally in Alex Jones, the conspiracy theorist at the helm of the popular far-right website InfoWars. Jones, who first gained notoriety for spreading a lie that the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax, had once counted more than 2 million YouTube subscribers and 800,000 Twitter followers before being banned from both platforms.

Alexander also collaborated with Nick Fuentes, the 22-year-old leader of the white nationalist “Groyper” movement.

“Thirty percent of that crowd was Alex Jones’ crowd,” Alexander said on another livestream, referring to the Million MAGA March on Nov. 14. “And there were thousands and thousands of Groypers — America First young white men. … Even if you thought these were bad people, why can’t bad people do good tasks? Why can’t bad people fight for their country?”

Is option #2 still on the table for those folks?

[Peter Brown]

If Democrats didn’t have Trump or their TDS to work on every day, they’d have to reflect on how bad their Democratic run cities and states are.

Imagine acknowledging you are responsible for: rampaging crime rates, third world murder rates, telling girls they must compete against men, teaching young kids that America is awful, teaching 1st graders about masturbation, homeless epidemics, no borders, speech suppression, accepting/promoting Marxist ideology, runaway inflation, class warfare, and a thoroughly dishonest media. All of that and more.

Good thing we got rid of mean tweets.

[Kinduv]

If Democrats didn’t have Trump or their TDS to work on every day, they’d have to reflect on how bad their Democratic run cities and states are.

Imagine acknowledging you are responsible for: rampaging crime rates, third world murder rates, telling girls they must compete against girls, teaching young kids that America is awful, teaching 1st graders about masturbation, homeless epidemics, no borders, speech suppression, accepting/promoting Marxist ideology, runaway inflation, class warfare, and a thoroughly dishonest media. All of that and more.

Good thing we got rid of mean tweets.

PBr0wn is destr0ying y0u 1ibby-1efts because he's right, when americans are running america again, y0u'11 understand this,

[Baducchi]

Peter Brown and Kinduv, you two should start your own threads and leave the rest of us alone.

[Peter Brown]

Peter Brown and Kinduv, you two should start your own threads and leave the rest of us alone.

Yeah, ummm, you obviously don’t know what this other account is. I have ‘him’ blocked, as should you. I won’t tell you who is behind this fake account because I’d get suspended. It’s a fake account run by someone here to do exactly what you’re doing.

[Kinduv]

n0t true! if i'm b10cked, then h0w d0es everyb0dy see my p0sts?!!!!! pb, we're n0t b10cked!

[MDlaxfan76]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

Yeah, you agree with Carlson, then?

Seriously?

Who's Carlson ? I can think for myself. I do agree with JD Vance, who I linked.

I didn't ask whether you agree with Vance.
I asked you whether you agree with Carlson.

I'm having a hard time believing you don't know what he said about Milley.

https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carlson ... ts-1604029

I did not see Carlson (who I know as Tucker), in context or excerpted.
I do not agree with the tone or pejoratives attributed to him in your link.

I do agree with what JD Vance tweeted, which is why I linked it.

It's worth actually seeing Tucker Carlson's comments in his own tone of voice:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucke ... ley-a-pig/

Here's one response.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/tucker- ... y-attacks/

These are your fellas, Salty. That's what they're selling out there.
Them and Vlad.

Re Vance, he let his mask slip sometime ago.

I don't give a fig about what Tucker Carlson says. My thoughts are my own.
He doesn't speak for me any more then AOC speaks for you.
It's a dishonest weasel move to equate anyone who does not agree with Milley on this to Tucker Carlson.
I've defended Milley several times before but I disagree with him on this issue,
...unless he can provide evidence of "white rage" or extremism in the ranks, which he has yet to do.
If it does exist, it's a failure of leadership on his part.

Why is it so hard to say that Tucker Carlson's words are egregiously offensive, as well as enormously factually wrong?

Why can't you express an opinion about the relative character and careers of Carlson and Milley?

Are you that deep in the tank?
Apparently so.

On your challenge "in the ranks", there have been official reports analyzing extremism within the military. It's debatable whether it's more widespread or deeper rooted than our society at large (but that's not necessary, given that it's clearly such a large issue in American society).

These are issues which face every part of our society, and leaders at every level are either facing this challenge, learning as much as they can about it, or they're not...the US military is quite diverse, drawing from that American society, and leaders, like Milley, are saying they intend to face the issues headfirst, eyes and minds open.

Ahhh, can't have that, can we?

[Baducchi]

Yeah, ummm, you obviously don’t know what this other account is. I have ‘him’ blocked, as should you. I won’t tell you who is behind this fake account because I’d get suspended. It’s a fake account run by someone here to do exactly what you’re doing.

I'm not blocking anybody. And if I did, it would be you. I'm all for FanLax having a No-Trump policy and permanently suspending all post-ers who are Trumps. All posters who are insensitive, irrational, lying, trolling, bullying bigots. Not right, not GOP, not Conservative. Trump. e.g. You.

[Peter Brown]

Yeah, ummm, you obviously don’t know what this other account is. I have ‘him’ blocked, as should you. I won’t tell you who is behind this fake account because I’d get suspended. It’s a fake account run by someone here to do exactly what you’re doing.

I'm not blocking anybody. And if I did, it would be you. I'm all for FanLax having a No-Trump policy and permanently suspending all post-ers who are Trumps. All posters who are insensitive, irrational, lying, trolling, bullying bigots. Not right, not GOP, not Conservative. Trump. e.g. You.

Intriguing you and he always post at the same time on the same day and it’s me you two post about.

Hmmmmm.

No worry Baducchi, I blocked you. Might as well disable your account now.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Remember it wasn't pizza's claim that the service academies don't address the sorts of humanities courses that can provide such perspective, that was Salty. I dunno how much or not gets dealt with at the service academies, but pizza's absolutely correct about wanting those future leaders of the military to have a truly excellent education, preparing them to actually lead not simply command.

...you & pizza have no clue about what is taught at the service academies or how.
You don't need to have majors in the fields I listed to develop the perspective you seek.
It is inculcated in the Mids & Cadets from Induction Day until Commissioning Day,
https://accts.org/ethics/norway/garrettt.htm
https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... ion/NL.php
...just as it was in JD Vance as an enlisted Marine, from the time he began boot camp.
https://www.shortform.com/blog/jd-vance-marine/

Actually, yes I do.

https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... s-Core.php

https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... /index.php

While the majority of midshipmen will choose their majors freely, the needs of the Naval Service take precedence. For the Naval Academy Class of 2013 and beyond, at least 65% of those graduates commissioned into the U.S. Navy must complete academic majors in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics disciplines. This institutional requirement applies as well to NROTC programs at other colleges. At the end of plebe year, midshipmen choose a major course of study with counsel from academic and military advisors.

Some of these areas offer additional specialization within the major. For example, the aerospace engineering major has tracks in aeronautical engineering and astronautical engineering reflecting the Navy’s interest in atmospheric and space flight. Minors in French, German, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Arabic and Chinese are offered to those who complete four advanced courses in one of these languages while at the Academy.

Still not convinced it is a good as some think it to be.

P.S. What happened to celestial navigation instruction?

PPS Did Flynn skip this his plebe year?

Government* The following course is required:
FP130 (3-0-3). U.S. Gov't and Constitutional Development

Here's an overview of Navy celestial nav training :
https://www.oceannavigator.com/naval-ac ... celestial/

Here's a list of USNA core courses. Note the Leadership, Ethics & Law courses which address your areas of concern.
https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... s-Core.php
Celestial nav is included in the advanced navigation course.
More extensive celestial nav training is included in Surface Warfare Officer School & Quartermaster A School.
https://www.militarynews.com/news/quart ... b64af.html
In practice, the ship's Navigator, Asst Navigator (on larger warships) & Quartermasters of the Watch are the only crew members necessary to maintain proficiency in celestial nav.

Service academy curricula, as well as required courses for ROTC scholarship, are tailored & updated to meet the needs of the services.

?

[Farfromgeneva]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

Yeah, you agree with Carlson, then?

Seriously?

Who's Carlson ? I can think for myself. I do agree with JD Vance, who I linked.

I didn't ask whether you agree with Vance.
I asked you whether you agree with Carlson.

I'm having a hard time believing you don't know what he said about Milley.

https://www.newsweek.com/tucker-carlson ... ts-1604029

I did not see Carlson (who I know as Tucker), in context or excerpted.
I do not agree with the tone or pejoratives attributed to him in your link.

I do agree with what JD Vance tweeted, which is why I linked it.

It's worth actually seeing Tucker Carlson's comments in his own tone of voice:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tucke ... ley-a-pig/

Here's one response.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/tucker- ... y-attacks/

These are your fellas, Salty. That's what they're selling out there.
Them and Vlad.

Re Vance, he let his mask slip sometime ago.

I don't give a fig about what Tucker Carlson says. My thoughts are my own.
He doesn't speak for me any more then AOC speaks for you.
It's a dishonest weasel move to equate anyone who does not agree with Milley on this to Tucker Carlson.
I've defended Milley several times before but I disagree with him on this issue,
...unless he can provide evidence of "white rage" or extremism in the ranks, which he has yet to do.
If it does exist, it's a failure of leadership on his part.

Why is it so hard to say that Tucker Carlson's words are egregiously offensive, as well as enormously factually wrong?

Why can't you express an opinion about the relative character and careers of Carlson and Milley?

Are you that deep in the tank?
Apparently so.

On your challenge "in the ranks", there have been official reports analyzing extremism within the military. It's debatable whether it's more widespread or deeper rooted than our society at large (but that's not necessary, given that it's clearly such a large issue in American society).

These are issues which face every part of our society, and leaders at every level are either facing this challenge, learning as much as they can about it, or they're not...the US military is quite diverse, drawing from that American society, and leaders, like Milley, are saying they intend to face the issues headfirst, eyes and minds open.

Ahhh, can't have that, can we?

Fear (ID) & Arrogance (Superego)

[Baducchi]

Intriguing you and he always post at the same time on the same day and it’s me you two post about.

Hmmmmm.

No worry Baducchi, I blocked you. Might as well disable your account now.

Self-centered much. Because you blocked me I should no longer frequent the FanLax Forum? You're an idiot. A racist idiot. I cannot wait until you're gone...

[MDlaxfan76]

Remember it wasn't pizza's claim that the service academies don't address the sorts of humanities courses that can provide such perspective, that was Salty. I dunno how much or not gets dealt with at the service academies, but pizza's absolutely correct about wanting those future leaders of the military to have a truly excellent education, preparing them to actually lead not simply command.

...you & pizza have no clue about what is taught at the service academies or how.
You don't need to have majors in the fields I listed to develop the perspective you seek.
It is inculcated in the Mids & Cadets from Induction Day until Commissioning Day,
https://accts.org/ethics/norway/garrettt.htm
https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... ion/NL.php
...just as it was in JD Vance as an enlisted Marine, from the time he began boot camp.
https://www.shortform.com/blog/jd-vance-marine/

Actually, yes I do.

https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... s-Core.php

https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... /index.php

While the majority of midshipmen will choose their majors freely, the needs of the Naval Service take precedence. For the Naval Academy Class of 2013 and beyond, at least 65% of those graduates commissioned into the U.S. Navy must complete academic majors in science, technology, engineering, or mathematics disciplines. This institutional requirement applies as well to NROTC programs at other colleges. At the end of plebe year, midshipmen choose a major course of study with counsel from academic and military advisors.

Some of these areas offer additional specialization within the major. For example, the aerospace engineering major has tracks in aeronautical engineering and astronautical engineering reflecting the Navy’s interest in atmospheric and space flight. Minors in French, German, Spanish, Russian, Japanese, Arabic and Chinese are offered to those who complete four advanced courses in one of these languages while at the Academy.

Still not convinced it is a good as some think it to be.

P.S. What happened to celestial navigation instruction?

PPS Did Flynn skip this his plebe year?

Government* The following course is required:
FP130 (3-0-3). U.S. Gov't and Constitutional Development

Here's an overview of Navy celestial nav training :
https://www.oceannavigator.com/naval-ac ... celestial/

Here's a list of USNA core courses. Note the Leadership, Ethics & Law courses which address your areas of concern.
https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Majors-a ... s-Core.php
Celestial nav is included in the advanced navigation course.
More extensive celestial nav training is included in Surface Warfare Officer School & Quartermaster A School.
https://www.militarynews.com/news/quart ... b64af.html
In practice, the ship's Navigator, Asst Navigator (on larger warships) & Quartermasters of the Watch are the only crew members necessary to maintain proficiency in celestial nav.

Service academy curricula, as well as required courses for ROTC scholarship, are tailored & updated to meet the needs of the services.

?

Salty,
I specifically said that I don't know what is or is not taught at the service academies, what courses are required core curriculum or not. And most importantly to this discussion, I don't know how well humanities such as history, political science, philosophy, psychology, etc are taught at the service academies...but I DO know that critical thinking skills are strengthened when diverse ideas are exposed, discussed and understood through deep analysis. And I DO know that understanding those who one will lead, how their experiences may be different from one's own, is essential to that leadership. Same for understanding those one will face in 'competition', as well as those whom one wishes to influence.

This pushback from the 'hard right' in our society against actually learning about the history and experiences of those in our society who have faced various levels of bigotry is the antithesis of what we should want for our leaders and future leaders.

But it's not unexpected that there would be such resistance to learning.

[youthathletics]

Must drive people nuts that a consistently top ranked 'Liberal Arts' school like USNA, actually pumps out such well rounded, successful members of our fabric. Why, because they actually address and work through the 'CORE' issues that have caused division and strife the world over. Makes you wonder why we sacrifice our men and women to fight in the ME....yea, its only about oil.

To question that critical thinking development is a not a core principle study of any SA befuddles me...it is the basis for successful leadership.

Other places might want to consider why they do so well and follow their lead.

[Farfromgeneva]

The core issue that causes strife is allocation of natural resources. Boom you can graduate from an SA now.

[cradleandshoot]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

And why don't they? As a taxpayer, I am funding the education of these public servants. That is what they are, they are servants -- they serve our nation. They volunteer to "serve" our nation, and, in fact, like all public servants, swear an oath to uphold and defend our Constitution. In return, we educate them and offer attractive pay packages and retirement, not to mention comprehensive medical, although I do think that the combat wounded get royally scr3wed over --- we need fewer yellow ribbons on cars and better benefits for the disabled vets.

So, I want my public servants extremely well-educated. I want a complete education, not some watered-down, incomplete STEM nonsense. If the officers can't grasp or don't want this sort of education, then they should look elsewhere for an education and job. Military service in our volunteer force is a privilege, not an entitlement.

Some people will never understand. OS will be a caricature in a contemporary follow up to Spoon River Anthology. That’s where the rejection of anything incomprehensible by some becomes such a macabre joke on all of society. Beckett or Flannery O’Conner couldn’t make up the stuff we see on these boards.

OS served this country as a decorated Naval aviator. He wrote that check that he was willing to cash with his own life. You people should honor and respect his opinion and he is mocked, ridiculed and denigrated by a bunch of chitheads who never bothered to serve this country and think they understand the the US military better than a man who served with dignity and honor. On your best day most of you will never be able to stand next to OS and not look like a bunch of whining and pathetic imbeciles. OS, for a Navy guy.. you rock.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Actual text of Milley:
The text doesn't do full justice to the tone...watch it.

The United States Military Academy is a university. And it is important that we train, and we understand ― and I want to understand white rage. And I’m white, and I want to understand it.

And I personally find it offensive that we are accusing the United States military, general officers, commissioned and noncommissioned officers of being quote ‘woke,’ or something else because we’re studying some theories that are out there.

The service academies do not offer majors in philosophy, sociology, theology or ethnic studies.
By endorsing such content, the SecDef & Chiefs are implicitly casting doubt on the loyalty of their troops.
This is not an academic exercise, it is pandering to their woke partisan civilian leaders, using their troops as a captive audience.

And why don't they? As a taxpayer, I am funding the education of these public servants. That is what they are, they are servants -- they serve our nation. They volunteer to "serve" our nation, and, in fact, like all public servants, swear an oath to uphold and defend our Constitution. In return, we educate them and offer attractive pay packages and retirement, not to mention comprehensive medical, although I do think that the combat wounded get royally scr3wed over --- we need fewer yellow ribbons on cars and better benefits for the disabled vets.

So, I want my public servants extremely well-educated. I want a complete education, not some watered-down, incomplete STEM nonsense. If the officers can't grasp or don't want this sort of education, then they should look elsewhere for an education and job. Military service in our volunteer force is a privilege, not an entitlement.

Some people will never understand. OS will be a caricature in a contemporary follow up to Spoon River Anthology. That’s where the rejection of anything incomprehensible by some becomes such a macabre joke on all of society. Beckett or Flannery O’Conner couldn’t make up the stuff we see on these boards.

OS served this country as a decorated Naval aviator. He wrote that check that he was willing to cash with his own life. You people should honor and respect his opinion and he is mocked, ridiculed and denigrated by a bunch of chitheads who never bothered to serve this country and think they understand the the US military better than a man who served with dignity and honor. On your best day most of you will never be able to stand next to OS and not look like a bunch of whining and pathetic imbeciles. OS, for a Navy guy.. you rock.

Don’t you get paid to volunteer?