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Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 6:10 pm**

You also forgot Galloway.

While I’m not of your generation, I can provide the below. In the 12 seasons since Galloway won his second Markland Kelly award in 2011, these are the season numbers of the other winners, which as you should know don’t include those of the NCAA tournament since voting is done after the conference tournaments.

2024, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.7%/9.39 GAA/.923 win %
2023, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.3%/9.77 GAA/.833 win%
2022, Owen McElroy, GTown, 62.5%/8.16 GAA/.923 win%
2021, Owen McElroy, GTown, 60.5%/8.00 GAA/.857 win%
2019, Sean Sconone, Mass, 61.5%/8.61/.667 (no NCAAs)
2018, JD Colarusso, Albany, 59.6%/7.18/.875
2017, Benny Pugh, Richmond, 66.1%/6.10/.750 (no NCAAs)
2016, Jack Kelly, Brown, 61.8%/8.19/.875
2015, Kyle Bernlohr, UMD, 58.9%/6.50/.800
2014, Niko Amato, UMD, 57.7%/7.19/.786
2013, Austin Kaut, PSU, 61.2%/7.26/.750
2012, John Kemp, ND, 64.3%/5.98/.846

Liam is a two time National Champ and a big reason for his teams having achieved that. He played great in both Final Fours. Congrats to him. However, as you can see, the only regular season (including conference championships) over the past twelve seasons that is statistically weaker than his this year is his last year.

As such, I don’t put him up there with the all time greats.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 6:32 pm**

I was at the 1979 final at muddy muddy Terp stadium.

Mike Federico shut down a top top Maryland offense, Beardmore was still there and post Frank Urso the Terps were still getting the top top recruits.

But that defense, incredible, physical, beat the daylights out of you line up on D.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 6:34 pm**

Galloway was special, but sorry not happening. The list you provided solidifies my post.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 6:42 pm**

BlueJaySince1947 wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:32 pm Larry Quinn hands down...was POY for two consecutive seasons.

Also tourney MVP same years he was POY and Goalie

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 7:11 pm**

Comeonman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:10 pm You also forgot Galloway.

While I’m not of your generation, I can provide the below. In the 12 seasons since Galloway won his second Markland Kelly award in 2011, these are the season numbers of the other winners, which as you should know don’t include those of the NCAA tournament since voting is done after the conference tournaments.

2024, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.7%/9.39 GAA/.923 win %
2023, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.3%/9.77 GAA/.833 win%
2022, Owen McElroy, GTown, 62.5%/8.16 GAA/.923 win%
2021, Owen McElroy, GTown, 60.5%/8.00 GAA/.857 win%
2019, Sean Sconone, Mass, 61.5%/8.61/.667 (no NCAAs)
2018, JD Colarusso, Albany, 59.6%/7.18/.875
2017, Benny Pugh, Richmond, 66.1%/6.10/.750 (no NCAAs)
2016, Jack Kelly, Brown, 61.8%/8.19/.875
2015, Kyle Bernlohr, UMD, 58.9%/6.50/.800
2014, Niko Amato, UMD, 57.7%/7.19/.786
2013, Austin Kaut, PSU, 61.2%/7.26/.750
2012, John Kemp, ND, 64.3%/5.98/.846

Liam is a two time National Champ and a big reason for his teams having achieved that. He played great in both Final Fours. Congrats to him. However, as you can see, the only regular season (including conference championships) over the past twelve seasons that is statistically weaker than his this year is his last year.

As such, I don’t put him up there with the all time greats.

Was curious, so I looked at the NCAA"s all time best season save percentages. Surprised to see Tom Nims '85 from Syracuse on the list twice. He was .701 in 1984, and .679 for 1985. I always thought of him as a guy like Beardmore, who liked to roam from the cage. No idea he was putting up numbers like that. You're going to win a lot of games when you have Nelson, Curry, and Kotz on one end, and your goalie is putting up numbers like that on the other.

Until, as others have mentioned, they ran into Larry Quinn.

I know the NCAA list is incomplete, because Quinn isn't on it, and I know he was over .700 in 84 or 85.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 7:35 pm**

Doesn’t make them the greatest goalie by definition but If I had to pick one goalie to make an enormous, pressure save my top 3 would be

1) Quinn

2) Tilman Johnson

3) Schimoler

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:05 pm**

Mr3Putt wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:31 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:18 pm schmioler, locasio, sheehan, bacigalupo, johnson, from old guard. don't know 70's to early-early 80's. maybe beardmore and doc. newer guys are tougher. mostly because the ball comes so fast, shot fakes, etc. some ridiculous goalies, but quite a few of them seem on equal footing, but only bc the job's so tough. entenmann's in that group.
I enjoyed Beardmore , but that was more about the extra curricular. Running out of the cage, and making special saves

yes.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:23 pm**

HGK wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:35 pm Doesn’t make them the greatest goalie by definition but If I had to pick one goalie to make an enormous, pressure save my top 3 would be

1) Quinn

2) Tilman Johnson

3) Schimoler

Schimoler is my #1, Larry Quinn #2 and Sal Locascio #3

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:35 pm**

Brian Dougherty and Sal Locasio.

What are we even doing here?

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:41 pm**

Wheels wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:35 pm Brian Dougherty and Sal Locasio.

What are we even doing here?

Legend says Doc used to yell “Clear!” When shooters were winding up. That’s all I have to say.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:45 pm**

xxxxxxx wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:41 pm
Wheels wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:35 pm Brian Dougherty and Sal Locasio.

What are we even doing here?
Legend says Doc used to yell “Clear!” When shooters were winding up. That’s all I have to say.

Some of those shooters have verified that.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 8:56 pm**

Mr3Putt wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:08 pm
LaxPundit07 wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:04 pm
jrn19 wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:02 pm Of the last few decades, it's Tillman Johnson

Previous few, Larry Quinn and Bacigalupo have pretty much unimpeachable resumes but there were a lot of great ones

Entenmann was very good, great throughout his career at points and particularly in the '23 tournament. But there were others right there with them; and he wasn't 03 tournament Johnson at any point
Mickey Jarboe
Mickey was wonderful. And a super person! But you have to incorporated into the NCAA tournament!

Two time Kelly Award winner. Two time First Team All American. Started only 7 games in high school. Started all 4 years at Navy. 57% as a frosh. 58% as a sophomore. 65% as a junior. 65% as a senior. Led the nation in save percentage and goals against average as a senior at Navy. And go back and look at their opponents. Richie Meade shied away from no one during those years. 10 of 14 opponents in his junior year were ranked. 6 of 12 his senior year. He is a top 5 goalie all time in my book.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 9:04 pm**

Brownlax wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:23 pm
HGK wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 7:35 pm Doesn’t make them the greatest goalie by definition but If I had to pick one goalie to make an enormous, pressure save my top 3 would be

1) Quinn

2) Tilman Johnson

3) Schimoler
Schimoler is my #1, Larry Quinn #2 and Sal Locascio #3

Schimoler against Syracuse in the Dome, 1987 (4 goals, 31 saves): https://youtu.be/nzafrFszbzE?si=0PQjFr-oVgwFhTRb

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 9:18 pm**

I think the modern rules constraining defense and the stick technology have made it virtually impossible to compare across the eras. Not to mention the horrible stall-ball era (thank god that's gone). It's sort of like trying to compare ice hockey goaltending in the butterfly era vs. goaltending in the stand-up era, but in reverse.

When would historians of the position agree the "modern era" of goaltending begins? Mid-1990s? Early 2000s? And if we're throwing out some modern-era greats I'd include Brown's Jack Kelly in 2015 - 2016 and Albany's Blaze Riorden -- Riorden might have been the best I've ever seen in person (except for Michael Gianforcaro whenever he faced Yale).

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 10:03 pm**

Comeonman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:10 pm You also forgot Galloway.

While I’m not of your generation, I can provide the below. In the 12 seasons since Galloway won his second Markland Kelly award in 2011, these are the season numbers of the other winners, which as you should know don’t include those of the NCAA tournament since voting is done after the conference tournaments.

2024, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.7%/9.39 GAA/.923 win %
2023, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.3%/9.77 GAA/.833 win%
2022, Owen McElroy, GTown, 62.5%/8.16 GAA/.923 win%
2021, Owen McElroy, GTown, 60.5%/8.00 GAA/.857 win%
2019, Sean Sconone, Mass, 61.5%/8.61/.667 (no NCAAs)
2018, JD Colarusso, Albany, 59.6%/7.18/.875
2017, Benny Pugh, Richmond, 66.1%/6.10/.750 (no NCAAs)
2016, Jack Kelly, Brown, 61.8%/8.19/.875
2015, Kyle Bernlohr, UMD, 58.9%/6.50/.800
2014, Niko Amato, UMD, 57.7%/7.19/.786
2013, Austin Kaut, PSU, 61.2%/7.26/.750
2012, John Kemp, ND, 64.3%/5.98/.846

Liam is a two time National Champ and a big reason for his teams having achieved that. He played great in both Final Fours. Congrats to him. However, as you can see, the only regular season (including conference championships) over the past twelve seasons that is statistically weaker than his this year is his last year.

As such, I don’t put him up there with the all time greats.

Not sure a single name from that list would be in the conversation for best of all time.

Stats matter -- not saying throw them out. But SOS and winning also matter. Of that list, only Bernlohr, and maybe Kelly or Amato, saw anything close to the difficulty of what ND faced this year. None of them won a championship.

Tillman Johnson is burned so deeply in everyone's memories because of his 2003 playoff performances. He was #20 in save percentage the next year and UVA was awful.

The Orfling wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 9:18 pm I think the modern rules constraining defense and the stick technology have made it virtually impossible to compare across the eras. Not to mention the horrible stall-ball era (thank god that's gone). It's sort of like trying to compare ice hockey goaltending in the butterfly era vs. goaltending in the stand-up era, but in reverse.

When would historians of the position agree the "modern era" of goaltending begins? Mid-1990s? Early 2000s? And if we're throwing out some modern-era greats I'd include Brown's Jack Kelly in 2015 - 2016 and Albany's Blaze Riorden -- Riorden might have been the best I've ever seen in person (except for Michael Gianforcaro whenever he faced Yale).

100% agree. Stick tech + shot clock are huge contributors to the rising GAA. I'd say they've resulted in multiple modern eras. It even feels like Kemp played in an ancient time given pace of play and shooting quality.

Posted: **Mon May 27, 2024 10:12 pm**

Hate to say a Hopkins guy but Larry Quinn is still the best goalie to ever play that anyone alive today may have seen. The ND goalie is good, great even, but there are others ahead of him. Especially if we are just talking college lacrosse.

Posted: **Tue May 28, 2024 12:15 am**

Wheels wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:35 pm Brian Dougherty and Sal Locasio.

What are we even doing here?

Two greats! No titles. That’s what we’re doing. Dougherty beat Hopkins in College Park. Great game. Sal was awesome. But again , no rings.

Posted: **Tue May 28, 2024 1:43 am**

Mr3Putt wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 12:15 am
Wheels wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 8:35 pm Brian Dougherty and Sal Locasio.

What are we even doing here?
Two greats! No titles. That’s what we’re doing. Dougherty beat Hopkins in College Park. Great game. Sal was awesome. But again , no rings.

Well if rings are the bar, you've got Federico with three, and Palumb with three. Those are your choices.

Posted: **Tue May 28, 2024 1:57 am**

DocBarrister wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:55 pm
Mr3Putt wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 4:51 pm Ive been around. Ok? Schmoiler, Locassio , Kevin Mahon, Larry Quinn, Rick Blick, Van Arsdale, Tommy Sears, Tillman Johnson , Quint Kessinich, Palumb, Weirmann, Malloy, Dan Mackessey…….. I think Liam Entenamann is possibly the greatest of all time. And I don’t care about the deserts- International play, PLL - stuff . Why ? Because no one cares about it. And, either do I!
Uh, ever hear of some guy named Mike Federico?

DocBarrister

Saw him a few times at Homewood in '79 and '80. Damn good.

Posted: **Tue May 28, 2024 6:31 am**

Comeonman wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:10 pm You also forgot Galloway.

While I’m not of your generation, I can provide the below. In the 12 seasons since Galloway won his second Markland Kelly award in 2011, these are the season numbers of the other winners, which as you should know don’t include those of the NCAA tournament since voting is done after the conference tournaments.

2024, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.7%/9.39 GAA/.923 win %
2023, Liam Entenmann, ND, 56.3%/9.77 GAA/.833 win%
2022, Owen McElroy, GTown, 62.5%/8.16 GAA/.923 win%
2021, Owen McElroy, GTown, 60.5%/8.00 GAA/.857 win%
2019, Sean Sconone, Mass, 61.5%/8.61/.667 (no NCAAs)
2018, JD Colarusso, Albany, 59.6%/7.18/.875
2017, Benny Pugh, Richmond, 66.1%/6.10/.750 (no NCAAs)
2016, Jack Kelly, Brown, 61.8%/8.19/.875
2015, Kyle Bernlohr, UMD, 58.9%/6.50/.800
2014, Niko Amato, UMD, 57.7%/7.19/.786
2013, Austin Kaut, PSU, 61.2%/7.26/.750
2012, John Kemp, ND, 64.3%/5.98/.846

Liam is a two time National Champ and a big reason for his teams having achieved that. He played great in both Final Fours. Congrats to him. However, as you can see, the only regular season (including conference championships) over the past twelve seasons that is statistically weaker than his this year is his last year.

As such, I don’t put him up there with the all time greats.

Though you have to adjust for both inception of turd clock and 69 second reset. Then adjust for Covid 5th years which is why these comparisons at become a silly back and forth.

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