LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:05 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pm

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

OK thanks for the definitive advice on what anyone should use for an argument. Your opinion is based on more factual information than mine. So you win. BC might as well put in the second stringers, 'cause I am sure they are on some list...No need to worry about the next game, it's just one more incomplete and clearly non-competitive team in the way to a repeat.

I think I'll not drive the 8 hours to come and watch as the game is already decided.

Pretty sure the Colts beat the Jets back in the day; I mean Johnny Unitas, Tom Matte, Preston Pearson, Mike Curtis, Bill Curry, Billy Ray Smith, Bubba Smith. C'mon man.

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:09 pm

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:05 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:02 pm

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

OK thanks for the definitive advice on what anyone should use for an argument. Your opinion is based on more factual information than mine. So you win. BC might as well put in the second stringers, 'cause I am sure they are on some list...No need to worry about the next game, it's just one more incomplete and clearly non-competitive team in the way to a repeat.

I think I'll not drive the 8 hours to come and watch as the game is already decided.

Pretty sure the Colts beat the Jets back in the day; I mean Johnny Unitas, Tom Matte, Preston Pearson, Mike Curtis, Bill Curry, Billy Ray Smith, Bubba Smith. C'mon man.

Man, I was going to go back and delete my silly post, but you memorialized it...ouch.

I am going to go back to the Red haired rasta man that never comments about his daughter's team....

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

Seacoaster(1) wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:16 pm You're fine. Whatever you say is fine. Loyola is plainly the underdog (sorry, UnderHound). But they are good and played very well against a good opponent over the weekend. Goalkeeping edge to Loyola. Draws and between the 30s is closer to a dead heat than people may think. The attack units for both of these teams is elite, and both play well as a unit. Be quick to double CN and work hard to make her pass without giving up a cheap 8-Meter, where she is pretty deadly. Make the players other than CN and JMedjid beat you. Certainly a tough hill to climb, but doable. What more, really, can you say?

njbill wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:03 pm If we could get a peek behind the curtain, I'll bet we'd see that one poster has done 95% of the reporting of posts on this forum. (I'll be a good boy now and stop. I'll save the result of this emergent rant for another time.)

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

REALLY? Are you serious? Don't use stats to compare players? That's really Rich! Sports are built on stats and comparisons. For instance, many still believe that Babe Ruth is the greatest Baseball player ever. I don't buy that because I know that he never competed against players of color. People say Michael Jordan is the greatest Basketball player ever. Why? He has 6 NBA Championships and some even site the Athletic shoes that bear his last name. I don't agree with that and I say Wilt Chamberlain is the Greatest B-ball player ever. Why? It's not just all the records that he set at one time, but the fact remains that when he played they had to change the rules of the game to make it fair for everyone and those rule changes still stand. There were no rule changes for Jordan. Stats and comparisons are a HUGE part of sport...and they will continue to be. That's how it is with Lacrosse and that's the way that it is.
[/quote

You missed the point. Stats have value but you can't compare middies for example that play completely different teams and play very different minutes. If you want to adjust stats for "minutes played" and strength of schedule they will have more value but you have to take stats in context. Is the D1 Goal Record holder from High Point better than or even remotely close to as good as North from BC when most her goals were in running clock games against weak teams. Heck no.

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:17 pm

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

REALLY? Are you serious? Don't use stats to compare players? That's really Rich! Sports are built on stats and comparisons. For instance, many still believe that Babe Ruth is the greatest Baseball player ever. I don't buy that because I know that he never competed against players of color. People say Michael Jordan is the greatest Basketball player ever. Why? He has 6 NBA Championships and some even site the Athletic shoes that bear his last name. I don't agree with that and I say Wilt Chamberlain is the Greatest B-ball player ever. Why? It's not just all the records that he set at one time, but the fact remains that when he played they had to change the rules of the game to make it fair for everyone and those rule changes still stand. There were no rule changes for Jordan. Stats and comparisons are a HUGE part of sport...and they will continue to be. That's how it is with Lacrosse and that's the way that it is.

You missed the point. Stats have value but you can't compare middies for example that play completely different teams and play very different minutes. If you want to adjust stats for "minutes played" and strength of schedule they will have more value but you have to take stats in context. Is the D1 Goal Record holder from High Point better than or even remotely close to as good as North from BC when most her goals were in running clock games against weak teams. Heck no.

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC.

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:17 pm ...you have to take stats in context. Is the D1 Goal Record holder from High Point better than or even remotely close to as good as North from BC when most of her goals were in running clock games against weak teams. Heck no.

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:17 pm

LarryGamLax wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 1:48 pm

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 12:22 pm

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:38 am

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 10:18 am With even odds I would bet significantly on BC to win. BC has routinely faced teams as talented as Loyola. They are battle tested in huge games. Played Cuse 4 times last year, NC 4 times in last 2 years, etc. BC is the best team Loyola has faced and they have the player most difficult to match up with in North. Hard to prepare for North unless you have faced her before especially in a man to man defense. Loyola is also playing away in front of a sold out crowd. Loyola is a very good team and is well coached but at the end of the day the players will decide the outcome. I just love the grit and competitive spirit of BC. I also think if you rank every positional player for both teams - 1-4 on offense, 1-4 on defense and 1-3 on midfield you will find that BC has a clear advantage. I would give Loyola the clear edge is goal keeping but Rachel is at her best in the post season and played well vs Denver. I view the draw as being about even. If both teams play their typical game, IMO BC wins by 5.

I have no rebuttal on most of your points. The only points I would question is your assertion that the starters for BC have a clear advantage ranked as you indicate. Attackers, maybe. Middies, hmmm (Starting BC middies 108 goals, Starting Loyola middies 132 goals). Defensively, I would argue that Loyola has the edge on the top 4 over BC.

So, I agree with you that the potential for an upset is thin....The median player for BC may be better and that is usually the reason that a team beats a team. BC clearly has the best record in big games and the best player in Lax (2021).

Please don't rely on stats to compare players. If they don't play the same exact teams and play the same exact minutes it is largely meaningless. BC in big games will largely play 2 middies - Weeks and Smith. If you think Loyola's 2 middies are better so be it but the only team with 2 better IMO is probably UNC. Smith will likely be a 4x 1st Team All ACC player and Weeks is an absolute workhorse that is not relied on to score very much. They compliment one another perfectly. BC middies in Ivy games and other weak games play well less than 1/2 the game because BC plays 3+ lines in blowouts. Go watch Yale, Dartmouth, BU, Harvard games etc and count the minutes the middies played. You will be shocked. Every BC defender has been AA, honorable mention AA or pre-season AA of some sort - bottom line is they are all recognized as being very good if not great (Taylor, Schleicher, Syd and Roman). I think 3 are All ACC. Granted Scales is hurt but I would not take many defenses over BC. Edge on attack has to go to BC.

REALLY? Are you serious? Don't use stats to compare players? That's really Rich! Sports are built on stats and comparisons. For instance, many still believe that Babe Ruth is the greatest Baseball player ever. I don't buy that because I know that he never competed against players of color. People say Michael Jordan is the greatest Basketball player ever. Why? He has 6 NBA Championships and some even site the Athletic shoes that bear his last name. I don't agree with that and I say Wilt Chamberlain is the Greatest B-ball player ever. Why? It's not just all the records that he set at one time, but the fact remains that when he played they had to change the rules of the game to make it fair for everyone and those rule changes still stand. There were no rule changes for Jordan. Stats and comparisons are a HUGE part of sport...and they will continue to be. That's how it is with Lacrosse and that's the way that it is.
[/quote

You missed the point. Stats have value but you can't compare middies for example that play completely different teams and play very different minutes. If you want to adjust stats for "minutes played" and strength of schedule they will have more value but you have to take stats in context. Is the D1 Goal Record holder from High Point better than or even remotely close to as good as North from BC when most her goals were in running clock games against weak teams. Heck no.

The strength of schedule is another thing that I have problems with. It has been said that a certain group of schools do not allow up and coming programs to schedule them from fear of taking a loss or being in a really competitive contest. When you are the one doing the asking, those whom you ask can simply say NO...and they don't have to explain why.
I respect players, but I am not interested in being a snob about where they play. I understood a long time ago that there are differences in Divisions, Programs and players. No problem at all with that, but I refuse to say that because one person chose to go to College A and another go to College B, that A is better. Will not do that. Not a Lacrosse snob and will never be one.

Just respect the player from HPU and CN from BC. You can do both. I do.

njbill wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:03 pm My two cents. Not directing this at anyone in particular and certainly not to sc.

Maybe let's cut Doc a little slack for this game. He fully realizes it may be his daughter's last lax game ever after how many years? 15, 18? It's really, really tough to see it come to an end. I can understand being on edge.

Dr. Tact wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:40 pm

njbill wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:03 pm My two cents. Not directing this at anyone in particular and certainly not to sc.

Maybe let's cut Doc a little slack for this game. He fully realizes it may be his daughter's last lax game ever after how many years? 15, 18? It's really, really tough to see it come to an end. I can understand being on edge.

I am done being that Dad. I will turn back into my polite, timid self. No more stat comparisons that aren't recognized as legitimate, or don't fit an argument. No more "my princess is prettier than your princess." No more hoping. No more Fan boy. No more I slept in a Holiday Inn Express expert lax dude. No more rooting against the big gorilla. No more thinking that the underhound has a chance. No more eye test statements. No more posting about the favorite to a favorite's supporter.

I will go back to the Girl's Lacrosse Northern Virginia Public school forum and talk about concessions at Woodson High school.

DT

[edit] Everyone now has to believe that I have no relationship with a certain #13 on a certain lax team. Got it?

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 2:47 pm Doc - am I reading the string properly, does your daughter play for Loyola. If so I wish her well. I have so much respect for these young women who sacrifice so much and play so hard at the D1 level. I will be at the game as well and will root her on if you are willing to share her number.

Lax101 wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 3:53 pm And for the record I probably have more friends and family members that have played at the D1 level than anyone who posts on this site so I do no what I am talking about.