LaxPower Back-Up Stick

When lacrosse first started up in our area, you could rent the equipment. Give it a try and see if you liked it. Parents and kids had fun and it was laid back. Those days are done. You want to know why kids are stressed? In the tri-state area it's about what college your kid will attend. Football has fallen out of favor with mothers, soccer is boring as , baseball is for commoners but lacrosse! There's the preppy ticket.

Drive through any parking lot at a lax tournament and check out the bumper stickers if you think it's not about college. No one will ever make back in lax scholarship money what was doled out. And if you are not a great student, forget the Ivies and almost Ivies.

It's a mad dash for college and I do not think anyone understands that the chances are slim that it helps your kid. But I can't tell anybody that because two of my kids played, D1 and D3, so how can I be the voice of reason? (And I do not think anyone is listening to the sacrifice D1 players make over their 4 years to play. They miss out on a TON of other possible areas of personal growth.)

When my son was still playing baseball, there was a summer tournament. Maybe 4th grade. Another kid in the morning game was not hitting so well. At lunch before the next game, parents took him to a batting lesson. That kid dropped baseball and went on to play lax and eventually D3 lax. Dropped out of that too.

Sunday morning tournaments and tailgating are the new religion. These kids arrive at school on Monday exhausted and often injured. What are we doing?

3rd person plural,
Well stated.

seriously? wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:59 pm
Drive through any parking lot at a lax tournament and check out the bumper stickers if you think it's not about college. No one will ever make back in lax scholarship money what was doled out. And if you are not a great student, forget the Ivies and almost Ivies.

So, the parents are college educated and want their kids to be driven to achieve the same. Better than the gang-tats crowd or the oblivious crowd, right?

seriously? wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:59 pm It's a mad dash for college and I do not think anyone understands that the chances are slim that it helps your kid. (And I do not think anyone is listening to the sacrifice D1 players make over their 4 years to play. They miss out on a TON of other possible areas of personal growth.)

I think that parents are cognizant that a college education is the objective of a parenting round. Junior may not get a full scholly to Duke, but lax is an extra curricular that (at least until it's not) is fun for Junior and that teaches some fundamental lessons. If Junior loves lacrosse, why opt to send him to Botany Camp or Fat Camp or whatever else? Junior is 12 and loves lax. C'mon, how to you schedule his summer activities?

seriously? wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:59 pm Sunday morning tournaments and tailgating are the new religion. These kids arrive at school on Monday exhausted and often injured. What are we doing?

I arrived at class on Monday morning exhausted and injured as often as possible. I bet you did too. What we're doing is the best we can with the resources we have to prepare Junior for the challenges ahead. A weekend with mom and dad out of State playing lax with his team a little and maybe some dinners out and team trips to fun places sounds fantastic to a youth laxer.

I think you'd be remiss in not mentioning the money factor, 3PP, you can bet there are a lot of kids being left behind. I have a 10 yr old gson going into his 3rd (maybe his 4th...losing track) year on a "travel" hockey team. The kid is not a hockey player, believe me. Good skater, but not a hockey player. In his second year I had my d-in-law telling me all about scholarships (I clued my son in loud and clear about all of that), someone was feeding her a bunch of crap.
It's thousands of dollars for for these kids to play on these teams after all is said and done and every week end is all about them (dragging brothers and sisters along too). The whole picture is very off putting to me, I don't like it at all.
As an old school guy who played three sports from Pee Wee through HS, I would have been very uncomfortable putting my parents through what these parents go through with these travel teams. If someone told me it would cost my parents a few thousand bucks and their week ends for me to play ball, I'm pretty darn sure I wouldn't have done it. Multiply that by two, too...brother and I were 13 mo apart and he too was a three sport ball player.
Have said many times, I'm thankful to have missed all of this travel team nonsense when I and my kids were playing ball.

I don’t disagree. I was trying to clarify the reference to teams and scholarships. There are lots of aspects of it all

Just an observation about Club Lacrosse and Parents. I think most parents start off as a fun activity for the kids with best intentions, then the "keeping up with the Jones" mentality kicks in and the anty starts to kick up. People and Business meet the need. By high school the status goal is the college acceptance and scholarships.

Even the Booster Clubs in college are still parents over involved with their kids, after the game there are catered events for parents and players. My wife and I felt like we were bad parents because we didn't care that much about those things. It was enough that we came to game and cheered. We joked it was either Ground Round or Mc Donalds depending on how we played at away games. Our parents didn't have a meal prepared for us. My impression was the players usually got a quick bite, hit mom and dad up for some money and left. The parents stuck around.

I have been a part of the club lacrosse and college recruiting scene for coming up on 15 years in lots of roles - from rec coach, to club coach to parent - my experience is that the vast majority of what is driving the nutso club experience is the motivation of the parents to one-up each other. And I think they get into club with that as the driver from the start.

To say that the alternative to spending tens of thousands of dollars on club lacrosse is gang tats and juvenile delinquency is absurd. If they can afford the club lacrosse circuit, these parent's kids worst case scenario is getting caught up in country club drug problems if they "go wrong". If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

To be fair, I do regularly come across families that are in the club circuit for what I consider the "right" reasons, and they invariably fall into two camps: 1) the kid is a natural stud (parents probably played high level sports in their past), or 2) this is their 3rd or 4th kid in the sport and their eyes are wide open about what they are getting into.

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am I have been a part of the club lacrosse and college recruiting scene for coming up on 15 years in lots of roles - from rec coach, to club coach to parent - my experience is that the vast majority of what is driving the nutso club experience is the motivation of the parents to one-up each other. And I think they get into club with that as the driver from the start.

To say that the alternative to spending tens of thousands of dollars on club lacrosse is gang tats and juvenile delinquency is absurd. If they can afford the club lacrosse circuit, these parent's kids worst case scenario is getting caught up in country club drug problems if they "go wrong". If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

To be fair, I do regularly come across families that are in the club circuit for what I consider the "right" reasons, and they invariably fall into two camps: 1) the kid is a natural stud (parents probably played high level sports in their past), or 2) this is their 3rd or 4th kid in the sport and their eyes are wide open about what they are getting into.

This is so spot on. It reminds me of this article that is bouncing around the interwebs:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... rs/594760/

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am I have been a part of the club lacrosse and college recruiting scene for coming up on 15 years in lots of roles - from rec coach, to club coach to parent -

Good for you. I mean it. No sarcasm. This is admirable

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am my experience is that the vast majority of what is driving the nutso club experience is the motivation of the parents to one-up each other. And I think they get into club with that as the driver from the start.

Some do. I'm sure. Parents like that are gonna mess up their offspring by drivingdrivingdriving their bobbleheads to be the best whether we're talking about lax or science projects or friend circles at school. Worse, they'll invest heavily to support their offspring, so there is always the guilt lever.

We're talking about bad parents with money, not lacrosse, here. Lacrosse, club or otherwise, has only tangential relevance here.

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am ......... If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

Yup. Bingo. But STEM tutors don't provide opportunities for 'rents to flock to pretty places filled with like minded parents to support your promising son.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:44 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am ......... If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

Yup. Bingo. But STEM tutors don't provide opportunities for 'rents to flock to pretty places filled with like minded parents to support your promising son.

Not entirely true. Sports gets you in the EZ=-pass lane altogether, bypassing the log jam. I agree completely academics and SAT scores are of HUGE importance and the preferred list of importance. It is no different than the saying in business "It's often not what you know, but who you know" and if Coach X wants you to be his friend on the lax field, he will be your ex-pass.

palaxoff wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:53 am Just an observation about Club Lacrosse and Parents. I think most parents start off as a fun activity for the kids with best intentions, then the "keeping up with the Jones" mentality kicks in and the ante starts to kick up. People and Business meet the need. By high school the status goal is the college acceptance and scholarships.
Even the Booster Clubs in college are still parents over involved with their kids, after the game there are catered events for parents and players. My wife and I felt like we were bad parents because we didn't care that much about those things. It was enough that we came to game and cheered. We joked it was either Ground Round or Mc Donalds depending on how we played at away games. Our parents didn't have a meal prepared for us. My impression was the players usually got a quick bite, hit mom and dad up for some money and left. The parents stuck around.

While I’m on my soapbox here, many have expressed entirely valid concerns that the game is fast becoming one for the kids of ‘rents who can (and will) cut checks for $2k to $5k per year minimum from age 9 until the kid lands his job after college.

Maybe the ‘rents LIKE the other lax parents they’ve met? Maybe mom feels comfortable with other moms with the same challenges? Maybe Dad has met some of his best Vendors and Clients and Resources on the club circuit?

Look, there’s a schism between those who can afford and benefit from the ‘recruiting’ club circuit, and those who can’t. Jesus said that the poor will always be with us. 3PP submits that people with more money than me will always be with us.

Will the game grow faster if underprivileged kids (heck, even middle class kids) can afford to include lacrosse in their activity portfolio? Yup.
When the DI and DIII championships being won by teams from aspirational colleges for the past half dozen years, am I surprised that the ‘money-is-no-object’ crew has made the path to lacrosse success one that can be bought? Nope.

If you take out the public schools in towns that cost 7 figures to settle into (Darien, Mountain Lakes, Highland Park, and Torrey Pines come to mind), the top prep teams are private. Like it or not, Lacrosse is exclusive to well to do families and kids with generational athleticism who find the sport so fulfilling that they bail on any sport with a big league pro level.

So the answer to the OP query is, yes, lacrosse has probably penetrated most affluent communities.

Probably lacrosse will grow in these communities, but nowhere else.

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:58 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:44 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am ......... If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

Yup. Bingo. But STEM tutors don't provide opportunities for 'rents to flock to pretty places filled with like minded parents to support your promising son.

Not entirely true.
Sports gets you in the EZ=-pass lane altogether, bypassing the log jam.
I agree completely academics and SAT scores are of HUGE importance and the preferred list of importance. It is no different than the saying in business "It's often not what you know, but who you know" and if Coach X wants you to be his friend on the lax field, he will be your ex-pass.

I dunno if you were on the prior ark when the algorithm for getting a so-so scholar into an Ivy at the behest of a coach was discussed. Boarding school is worth a lot. Class rank is worth a little less. SATs are worth some more. Extracurriculars are worth some. I've had Chemotherapy since that squabble was had, so I'm not certain that my recollection is spot-on.

A team has to have an average of some figure, as does a recruiting class.

So technically, if, say, that St, Anthonys stud (Brendan O'Neill?) was illiterate (he's not), if Andy Shay wanted to bring him to New Haven, Andy'd have to fill out the rest of the recruiting class with NEWest educated National Merit Scholars with notable accomplishments beyond the classroom and lax field, but he could get it done.

As to our imagined 'Coach X", If he is a club coach, He'd better friend kids who have one of these attributes if he wants to remain credible amongst his college coach buddies:

1. Kid can ball. Big, fast, strong,who can catch and throw and shoot and has a head for the game. Might well be a 4 year contributor. Maybe a 3 year All American. That good. He also needs to be a kid who will stick out 4 or 5 years and graduate. Graduation rate is almost as important as wins to a college coach.

2. Kid will stay on the team for his tenure and (at least) be a great Practice Team player, hopefully a solid role player. and shed plaudits on the program by killin' it in the classroom. No scholly needed. Apt to be a touchstone in the locker room keeping the jocks focused on classwork.

3. Kid will stay on the team for his tenure and (at least) be a great Practice Team player, and shed plaudits on the program because his family floods the university (preferred) or the program (still super) with capital.

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:07 pm

youthathletics wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:58 pm

3rdPersonPlural wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:44 pm

HooDat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am ......... If college admittance is the goal (which almost every parent I talk to will "say") then the money would be far better spent on tutors and outside educational experiences.

Yup. Bingo. But STEM tutors don't provide opportunities for 'rents to flock to pretty places filled with like minded parents to support your promising son.

Not entirely true.
Sports gets you in the EZ=-pass lane altogether, bypassing the log jam.
I agree completely academics and SAT scores are of HUGE importance and the preferred list of importance. It is no different than the saying in business "It's often not what you know, but who you know" and if Coach X wants you to be his friend on the lax field, he will be your ex-pass.

I dunno if you were on the prior ark when the algorithm for getting a so-so scholar into an Ivy at the behest of a coach was discussed. Boarding school is worth a lot. Class rank is worth a little less. SATs are worth some more. Extracurriculars are worth some. I've had Chemotherapy since that squabble was had, so I'm not certain that my recollection is spot-on.

A team has to have an average of some figure, as does a recruiting class.

So technically, if, say, that St, Anthonys stud (Brendan O'Neill?) was illiterate (he's not), if Andy Shay wanted to bring him to New Haven, Andy'd have to fill out the rest of the recruiting class with NEWest educated National Merit Scholars with notable accomplishments beyond the classroom and lax field, but he could get it done.

As to our imagined 'Coach X", If he is a club coach, He'd better friend kids who have one of these attributes if he wants to remain credible amongst his college coach buddies:

1. Kid can ball. Big, fast, strong,who can catch and throw and shoot and has a head for the game. Might well be a 4 year contributor. Maybe a 3 year All American. That good. He also needs to be a kid who will stick out 4 or 5 years and graduate. Graduation rate is almost as important as wins to a college coach.

2. Kid will stay on the team for his tenure and (at least) be a great Practice Team player, hopefully a solid role player. and shed plaudits on the program by killin' it in the classroom. No scholly needed. Apt to be a touchstone in the locker room keeping the jocks focused on classwork.

3. Kid will stay on the team for his tenure and (at least) be a great Practice Team player, and shed plaudits on the program because his family floods the university (preferred) or the program (still super) with capital.

I understand the AI portion of Ivy requirements. I was merely saying sports coaches in general can fast track you (ez-pass premise)through admissions. And of course coaches do not want knuckleheads on their team and especially ones that may not be academically eligible to compete.

Wonder how many kids stick it out (for a while at least) because the 'rents have invested so much $, even though they may have checked out from the sport (any $ activity really)?

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:05 am Wonder how many kids stick it out (for a while at least) because the 'rents have invested so much $, even though they may have checked out from the sport (any $ activity really)?

BINGO, we've got a winner!!!!!

Conversation with gson yesterday:
"Hockey's right around the corner, you fired up?" (starts next month)

"No."

"Whadaya mean, no?"

"I don't really like hockey."

"Well, why don't you tell your mom and dad you don't want to play then?"

"Cuz my mom makes me play."

Ah, I get it, so Mommy can tell everyone she has a son playing on the travel hockey team and he's going to get a scholarship to one of the Ivies. Mommy can act like a big shot, wear her Hockey Mom sweatshirt, travel half way across the country so the ten year olds can play a game while she mingles with all the other big shots. Meanwhile, Dad can stroke the check which elimates any competition for who gets playing time on the ice. Travel team has nothing to do with talent, ability, or desire...only has to do with money.
Yes sireeeeee, youth sports in America!!!

DMac wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:56 am

bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 6:05 am Wonder how many kids stick it out (for a while at least) because the 'rents have invested so much $, even though they may have checked out from the sport (any $ activity really)?

BINGO, we've got a winner!!!!!

Conversation with gson yesterday:
"Hockey's right around the corner, you fired up?" (starts next month)

"No."

"Whadaya mean, no?"

"I don't really like hockey."

"Well, why don't you tell your mom and dad you don't want to play then?"

"Cuz my mom makes me play."

Ah, I get it, so Mommy can tell everyone she has a son playing on the travel hockey team and he's going to get a scholarship to one of the Ivies. Mommy can act like a big shot, wear her Hockey Mom sweatshirt, travel half way across the country so the ten year olds can play a game while she mingles with all the other big shots. Meanwhile, Dad can stroke the check which elimates any competition for who gets playing time on the ice. Travel team has nothing to do with talent, ability, or desire...only has to do with money.
Yes sireeeeee, youth sports in America!!!

There is a fine line between encouraging and pushing. I know there were times I pushed too hard. I came from a town where hard work paid off (friends and relatives in NFL/NBA) and my wife and I were college athletes....probably distorted our mindset. It worked out but if I could do anything over it would be a few missed games for golf and fishing. Particularly fishing. I should have done more of that one on one time. Most of ours was on a basketball court, soccer field or lacrosse field and driving to games. I have a next door neighbor with little kids. Already knee deep in it with kids 10, 8 and 4. Parents were both college athletes and the dad is one of the best college lacrosse defenders in the last 20 years. That experience can distort a parent’s perspective. They are not thinking about a pot at the end of the rainbow. They just understand training and competing. We were sort of in that same mindset. My daughter was a really good athlete but did not like sports. She retired at the end of the 8th grade. She had enough. We probably had her play two years too long in hindsight. I would do it differently if I had a second chance.

Here is a interesting read, I read a few months ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ts/574975/

I'd say the lacrosse demographic is one of big offenders.

palaxoff wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:27 am Here is a interesting read, I read a few months ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ts/574975/

I'd say the lacrosse demographic is one of big offenders.

Spoke with a good friend this morning. Just checking in to get my soccer fix. He mentioned his daughter decided to give up soccer. Junior at a Patriot League school and decided she would rather be a regular student. Had enough of the grind. He said it took him awhile to get over it but he and his wife are fine. Have been on a 16 year run with year round soccer as older son played and his college career ended last fall. Playing on an MLS reserve team now. I have mixed emotions about the sport.

The discussion about travel is interesting. My oldest (hes 13, so he plays on a 2024 club) plays for a team based in NJ that is a good B team/low A level team. It's a good team, but what that really means is that we all know there are a lot of teams out there that are better, even in New Jersey (let alone Maryland or Long Island). He's one of the two best defense men on the team, but...playing travel quickly makes you realize that as good as you think your kid may be, there are a lot of better players out there. And he knows it, and it makes him work harder, because he loves lacrosse.

We have zero misconceptions that this will lead him to a division 1 team, let alone scholarship to play lacrosse. His number one responsibility is grades, not lacrosse as grades will get him into college after all. We invest this money in him to play travel lacrosse because it allows him to do something he really likes doing, that he has fun while doing, is getting coaching he can't get in town/rec ball. He's essentially using the travel experience to become the best player (and coachable kid) that he can be.

Nearly everyone on the team has the same view, parent and kid. Most of us on this team have been together in the travel scene for the past 4 years or so, so we know each other quite well. Our kids are good...but we all know there are better, and those kids are pretty notable. For example in the last tournament we were playing some team from Southern Maryland that was stacked with some really good players. One scored from about 8 yards out with a backhand shot that was frankly ridiculous. We all know our kids aren't like that.

So painting all travel parents and kids with this brush that we're all laboring under these misconceptions that it's hypercompetitive and only for division 1 or scholarships, or whatever, is a bit ridiculous. That may be the case when you're talking about some of the top AA teams, but that's by far not the bulk of the travel lacrosse world.