Has lacrosse “bubble” started to pop??

[River Donkey]

Cleveland St??
Wheeling Jesuit??
It feels like the growth bubble may be coming to an end...

[bearlaxfan]

The poorer nations show the fastest economic growth, while mature economies grow at modest rates. Lacrosse has been such a niche sport* that a slowing of its growth rate may just indicate a spreading of its popularity. There are many other factors of course...


*In the not-too-distant past, boxing and horse racing were arguably the top national sports, with baseball. Basketball was, and hockey arguably even now is, niche sports.

[LaxPundit07]

I don’t get the Wheeling Jesuit reference?

[River Donkey]

I don’t get the Wheeling Jesuit reference?

Rumors are they will not have lacrosse anymore.

[palaxoff]

Going to get up on Old Man Soap Box.

Yes I think the bubble has burst, for a lot of different reasons its a complex issue but here are a few of my thoughts.

First, I think the coach at CSU is a Ohio native and any chance to be part of OSU is just too damn tempting.

One reason for bubble bursting, youth club lacrosse, the supply is going to be reduced. The current model is broke and just a money grab for clubs.
We are churning through too many 10 to 14 year olds, do they really need to be playing tournaments all summer long? How many are getting frustrated and bored including their parents. We are losing players and fans at a young age.

If I was in charge, jf you aren't in high school or about to be in the fall. The rule would be only 1 tournament a month in June, June, October and November, no more then 50 miles form the clubs designated address.

2nd reason what is the schools return on investment. Are the schools getting a return on their investment on lacrosse. Is it helping them get that many more students or increasing the appeal of the college? . With the decline supply of college students the dollars spent on getting and retaining student
will become more significant not sure if lacrosse hits that metric.

[River Donkey]

Going to get up on Old Man Soap Box.

Yes I think the bubble has burst, for a lot of different reasons its a complex issue but here are a few of my thoughts.

First, I think the coach at CSU is a Ohio native and any chance to be part of OSU is just too damn tempting.

One reason for bubble bursting, youth club lacrosse, the supply is going to be reduced. The current model is broke and just a money grab for clubs.
We are churning through too many 10 to 14 year olds, do they really need to be playing tournaments all summer long? How many are getting frustrated and bored including their parents. We are losing players and fans at a young age.

If I was in charge, jf you aren't in high school or about to be in the fall. The rule would be only 1 tournament a month in June, June, October and November, no more then 50 miles form the clubs designated address.

2nd reason what is the schools return on investment. Are the schools getting a return on their investment on lacrosse. Is it helping them get that many more students or increasing the appeal of the college? . With the decline supply of college students the dollars spent on getting and retaining student
will become more significant not sure if lacrosse hits that metric.

^

[Homer]

I don’t get the Wheeling Jesuit reference?

Rumors are they will not have lacrosse anymore.

Wheeling Jesuit is up a creek as an institution. They just laid off 40% of the faculty and are projected to drop to ~500 undergrads for the coming fall. The Jesuits voted to cut them off this spring and they'll apparently have a new name in the fall. The college received a massive bailout from the diocese of Wheeling a couple years ago, but with plummeting enrollment their financial position is still reportedly dire. Lacrosse at this point is the least of their worries.

[Farfromgeneva]

Over reaction. Programs have been dropped before. Presbyterian, Butler, BC, MSU.

We have an entire southern conference now and three Rocky Mountain colleges including a PaC12 one. Northeast male population is declining. One mass school, Mt Aida failed recently. The problem is when broke or short sighted and are looking at that MD to ME money grab they think the sport provides, I.e. the wrong reason to start an athletics program. And there’s a ton of middle to lower class kids playing that some of these schools don’t realize.

Sure the club thing is disgusting, my college has one of the vey worst guys out there running a known program in the mid Atlantic, but when I went to tell a friend to keep and eye on the guy she’s was like an acolyte, and I knew here for 15yrs so I don’t see perception of the club scene changing writ large as of now.

The smaller, poorer schools are sometimes swinging for the fence adding lacrosse.

[wgdsr]

Cleveland St??
Wheeling Jesuit??
It feels like the growth bubble may be coming to an end...

how does cleveland state figure in to the growth bubble popping?

[wahoomurf]

"REMEMBER BUTLER"?

[pcowlax]

NC St, UConn, many other D1 teams have been dropped or moved down. Issues with clubs are a serious problem but I don’t think any outcome of the lax experiment at Cleveland St. really says anything either way about the future of lax.

[Wheels]

At 12.6 scholarships for a fully-funded D1 program, lacrosse from an enrollment perspective has a pretty good ROI. The game continues to grow south and west; otherwise, you don't see Utah add a program. While we often focus on adding programs at the D1 level, the growth at the D2 and D3 levels is robust. From an administrative perspective, it's easy to see why. Lacrosse still taps into a socio-economic market that can afford to pay for college (whether D1, D2, or D3). While high school enrollment rates continue to plummet in the northeast and parts of the midwest, high school enrollment rates in the south and west continue to grow. Lacrosse for a university at any level is a recruiting tool and a solid student retention tool.

[wgdsr]

NC St, UConn, many other D1 teams have been dropped or moved down. Issues with clubs are a serious problem but I don’t think any outcome of the lax experiment at Cleveland St. really says anything either way about the future of lax.

did i miss something?
is cleveland state dropping lacrosse?

[ohmilax34]

NC St, UConn, many other D1 teams have been dropped or moved down. Issues with clubs are a serious problem but I don’t think any outcome of the lax experiment at Cleveland St. really says anything either way about the future of lax.

did i miss something?
is cleveland state dropping lacrosse?

I think pcow is implying that Cleveland State is not an attractive place to go to college and play lacrosse and that it's a sign the growth is stopping that they are one of the most recent D1 additions.

Another way to look at it might be that Cleveland State offers a low cost option for college compared with some of the other schools that offer D1 lacrosse in the midwest and this might be the beginning of a new bubble of expansion.

[FannOLax]

Cleveland St??
Wheeling Jesuit??
It feels like the growth bubble may be coming to an end...

Like wgdsr, I'd appreciate a bit more clarity on the Cleveland State reference. Thank you in advance.

[LaxPundit07]

I think the Cleveland State reference is because their Head Coach is moving on so quickly for an assistant position at Ohio State. And their inability to find a conference (and perceived lack of support for the program) may have factored into his departure.

[River Donkey]

Cleveland St??
Wheeling Jesuit??
It feels like the growth bubble may be coming to an end...

Like wgdsr, I'd appreciate a bit more clarity on the Cleveland State reference. Thank you in advance.

No inside information or anything just the recent departure of the HC and no conference affiliation on the horizon is why they were mentioned.

[FannOLax]

Thank you for your reply, Suskypride. The growth of lacrosse has been quite something, and I suppose only time will tell if such growth has been a "bubble." There are a lot of sports in the US that are still far more popular than lacrosse, while for the most part lax remains a US and Canadian sport; so I think the growth was bound to slow down, at least for a while. I suppose I'd be looking to see if three western D1 schools will eventually add men's programs to join Denver, Air Force and Utah in a new conference... Some D3 schools added the sport only to bolster sagging enrollment figures, but that's more a reflection of those schools' problems than of lacrosse... Even though I grew up in an Ohio college town (the son of a professor, no less), I heard next to nothing about Cleveland State, so it may be an outlier in a number of ways.

[PrimeTime21]

You’re all missing it.

I’m gonna talk for CT now. People are going broke all over the place. Greenwich is a financial bloodbath and anything further east is a burned out corpse.

The lacrosse “core markets” and “hotbeds” are hurting economically right now.

The youth lacrosse trade is horrendous. 1k on gear, 2k a year on club, 15 to 65k a year on private school. And what Is the light at the end of the tunnel? A quarter scholly to like Furman and a “hookup” to some buyside sweatshop? Or full pay at a miserable ivy where he is out of place and not finding smashable biddies?

If a kid is a good athlete, lacrosse is the worst possible outlet for him. On the plus side he will fee like the man in his suburban private school. As the northeast recedes in national importance and financial strength our game is s.o.l.

And dont get me started on “growth markets.” In TX and FL lax is for losers. Like the magic club or marching band. We’re banking on the white neighborhoods of Baltimore, Long Island, Westchester/Fairfield County and Bethesda to carry our game. It’s looking grim.

[River Donkey]

Thank you for your reply, Suskypride. The growth of lacrosse has been quite something, and I suppose only time will tell if such growth has been a "bubble." There are a lot of sports in the US that are still far more popular than lacrosse, while for the most part lax remains a US and Canadian sport; so I think the growth was bound to slow down, at least for a while. I suppose I'd be looking to see if three western D1 schools will eventually add men's programs to join Denver, Air Force and Utah in a new conference... Some D3 schools added the sport only to bolster sagging enrollment figures, but that's more a reflection of those schools' problems than of lacrosse... Even though I grew up in an Ohio college town (the son of a professor, no less), I heard next to nothing about Cleveland State, so it may be an outlier in a number of ways.

I also should say I see it more in D2 and D3 then D1, but knew the topic would get some attention in the D1 forum. That being said, D1 definitely has some programs that could fit the criteria for “bubble” popping. For example Bellarmine, CSU, Hampton, among others possibly. I also agree with you on your D3 points as well.