Re: Johns Hopkins 2022
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:03 pm
Thanks; great obit for a terrific guy.Chitown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:36 pm From JHU
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/10/25/jerry-sc ... -obituary/
Thanks; great obit for a terrific guy.Chitown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:36 pm From JHU
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/10/25/jerry-sc ... -obituary/
I feel like I am not honoring Jerry enough but he would want us to talk about Hopkins lax rather than him so....Ruffled_Feathers wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:43 pm I think the biggest thing to keep in mind here is more so what is being talked about when someone hypes up a player like this. Guys like Ryan Evans and Stuart Phillips looked good, but anyone currently singing their praises isn't asking to put them on the Tewey watch list or even advocating that they get minutes with the first line come spring. More so to me there is a certain level of competence/athleticism/skill that seems to have permeated further down the bench than in recent memory of other years. This seems to be the case at least on the offensive side of the ball. The guys on the roster who will be fighting for consideration on the "second" midfield line very much look the part right now. The stick skills were there, the decision making and understanding of the offense was also generally there. Whether or not they can run by an ACC caliber SSDM or are a total liability on defense is to be determined but the boys 7+ on the midfield depth chart sure looked more like real life college lacrosse players rather than a total construction zone. That hasn't always been something we've been able to say in years past.
"Back to converted attackmen on the midfield" — not really any more than other teams to be honest. Degnon and Pehsko are two actual, honest to god midfielders and while Grimes played attack in high school he has the body of a true midfielder. So that's already half your midfield who are either true middies or very much look the part.jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 pm I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536
Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.
thought about throwing all of this up, glad you saved me the inclination.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:31 pm"Back to converted attackmen on the midfield" — not really any more than other teams to be honest. Degnon and Pehsko are two actual, honest to god midfielders and while Grimes played attack in high school he has the body of a true midfielder. So that's already half your midfield who are either true middies or very much look the part.jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 pm I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536
Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.
The other three of the presumed top 6 — Angelus, Keogh (is it just me or did he get nicked up again this weekend? Don't think he played in scrimmage #2) and McDermott — are indeed converted attackmen with more attackman-like physical traits I suppose but that's how the game is played now. Both teams in the title game played some high school attackmen at the midfield. One could very easily argue the best middies on each team are natural attackmen.
The issue was that you didn't want your ENTIRE midfield to be that type for reasons that I'd hope are obvious. But as 51 said we have a fairly ideal combo of size, speed, shooting, and skill on offense right now. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of Angelus types coming out of the box so long as you're limiting the need for them to get back in the hole and play defense. And guess what — if you run good offense then they won't need to race back to play D.
"Ryan Evans (who was one of the day’s standouts) made it 7-5 at the end of one."jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 pm I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536
Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.
Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:10 am"Ryan Evans (who was one of the day’s standouts) made it 7-5 at the end of one."jhu06 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 25, 2021 4:59 pm I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.
https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536
Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.
Looks like HOB and Matt Kinear were seeing the same thing, both of them impressed enough to comment.
HOB has a very good eye.
"When John Grant, Jr., is warming up goalies pre-game, that’s a good sign both in net and on the offensive side of the ball."
I was very happy to hear this!
Warming up the goalie is a key job for the OC. After taking a round of shots from Junior, the shooters in the game don't look so tough.
I recall they used to have a third string player warm up the goalies the last few years of Benson's tenure.
I also recall how much our goalies struggled under the old regime.
OMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:37 am
Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.
Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."
That is not what Scott was talking about - warming up a goalie is not rocket science - there is no exact right way - it's important but it doesn't take one of the greatest scorers of all time to do it. In fact, you could argue that Junior would be just average at warming up a goalie. Junior ranging around from 10-15 yards shooting all alone is almost never what he did. Hard to score one handed through the legs behind the back with five people draped all over you when warming up the goalie. He's 47 years old - his knees are shot - and he can't bring velocity like he once had - plus shot velocity was not his primary weapon. You play a top team and the first 6 guys are pinging high 80's into the 90's. I am sure he's a help to goalies with respect to following the ball from unexpected angles but this is not a critical component to Hopkins success.Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:56 am but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.
I've read his book, I'm pretty sure the very brief two or three sentence blurb he wrote about goalie warm-ups in a 300 page book were focused on how a coach should warm up the goalies rather than a player. Nowhere did he say it needed to be a former player of John Grant Jr.'s caliber. PS as much of a legend as Bob Scott was, that book was written 50 years ago (at a time when teams had 3 goalies MAX—many only had 2) and there remains no fact-based evidence that in the modern game there is any correlation whatsoever between the 10-minute pregame goalie warmup and game performance. It's magical thinking and to say it misses the forest for the trees is a vast understatement.Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:56 amOMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:37 am
Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.
Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."
You don't want to see shots in the game that are harder or more accurate than you're seeing at the end of the warm-up.
Our goaltending wasn't great under Petro, but not having the right guy warming them up sure didn't help.
Goaltending 101.
Thank you!Chitown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.
Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.
We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.
I have no other comments and nothing else to say.
This is a fantastic post and what makes this program so special and unique. Duke doesn't even have a thread, maryland is still trying to figure out what it's doing in the big ten, notre dame is trying to justify whatever is keeping their football team from national championship contention, north carolina who cares and it's months from the season and you guys are debating the goalie warm up process with book citations and experiences working with hall of famers. Amazing.Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:56 amOMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.HopFan16 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 8:37 am
Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.
Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."
You don't want to see shots in the game that are harder or more accurate than you're seeing at the end of the warm-up.
Our goaltending wasn't great under Petro, but not having the right guy warming them up sure didn't help.
Goaltending 101.
Doesn’t Coach Tillman, a former goalie himself, always personally warm up his starting goalie?Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:52 amThank you!Chitown wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:48 am I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.
Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.
We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.
I have no other comments and nothing else to say.
Sagittarius A* wrote: ↑Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:25 am Both Larry Quinn and Piggy got warmups from Joe Cowan.
He just directly contradicted your contention you nitwit and you're thanking him for it. I watched Piggy play for all 3 NC seasons and I never saw anybody but Chic but maybe it was Cowan with hair dye and those black cleats with the white trim.