Johns Hopkins 2022

[MDlaxfan76]

From JHU

https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/10/25/jerry-sc ... -obituary/

Thanks; great obit for a terrific guy.

[51percentcorn]

I think the biggest thing to keep in mind here is more so what is being talked about when someone hypes up a player like this. Guys like Ryan Evans and Stuart Phillips looked good, but anyone currently singing their praises isn't asking to put them on the Tewey watch list or even advocating that they get minutes with the first line come spring. More so to me there is a certain level of competence/athleticism/skill that seems to have permeated further down the bench than in recent memory of other years. This seems to be the case at least on the offensive side of the ball. The guys on the roster who will be fighting for consideration on the "second" midfield line very much look the part right now. The stick skills were there, the decision making and understanding of the offense was also generally there. Whether or not they can run by an ACC caliber SSDM or are a total liability on defense is to be determined but the boys 7+ on the midfield depth chart sure looked more like real life college lacrosse players rather than a total construction zone. That hasn't always been something we've been able to say in years past.

I feel like I am not honoring Jerry enough but he would want us to talk about Hopkins lax rather than him so....
OK - fair enough - but when someone apparently tells Fla... that Phillips is the "best freshman on campus" in a "long time" and now Ryan Evans scores 3 goals in a couple fall scrimmages and is described as a "revelation" (no disrespect HOB) all I was putting forth is that we have to wait until the real bullets start flying. It doesn't take a genius to see that the Jays have a decent chance of having a nice little offense - good mixture of bigger shooters you can't leave alone and some quicker dodgers with decent stick skills - throw in the ability to practice together with the coaches and there might be some propane in the tank. We'll see. I hope Phillips and Evans are revelations - no one wants it more than me - all I was trying to say is that we have seen that movie before and folks tend to get excited about scrimmages and the first one or two games of the season (do I need to bring up a certain "sky's the limit" on a sophomore goalie a few years ago?) and as we know it's a long season.

[jhu06]

I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536

Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.

I don't know the program rules on who gets a honorary decal/patch on the kit after a passing but I'm sure a JS wouldn't be out of the question for next spring if not some other kind of honor in a program or moment of silence.

[HopFan16]

I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536

Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.

"Back to converted attackmen on the midfield" — not really any more than other teams to be honest. Degnon and Pehsko are two actual, honest to god midfielders and while Grimes played attack in high school he has the body of a true midfielder. So that's already half your midfield who are either true middies or very much look the part.

The other three of the presumed top 6 — Angelus, Keogh (is it just me or did he get nicked up again this weekend? Don't think he played in scrimmage #2) and McDermott — are indeed converted attackmen with more attackman-like physical traits I suppose but that's how the game is played now. Both teams in the title game played some high school attackmen at the midfield. One could very easily argue the best middies on each team are natural attackmen.

The issue was that you didn't want your ENTIRE midfield to be that type for reasons that I'd hope are obvious. But as 51 said we have a fairly ideal combo of size, speed, shooting, and skill on offense right now. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of Angelus types coming out of the box so long as you're limiting the need for them to get back in the hole and play defense. And guess what — if you run good offense then they won't need to race back to play D.

[primitiveskills]

Nice to see Bauer in the IL write-up. Seemed like a kid with a lot of potential coming out of HS, though the jump from Utah HS lacrosse to D1 must have been considerable.

[wgdsr]

I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536

Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.

"Back to converted attackmen on the midfield" — not really any more than other teams to be honest. Degnon and Pehsko are two actual, honest to god midfielders and while Grimes played attack in high school he has the body of a true midfielder. So that's already half your midfield who are either true middies or very much look the part.

The other three of the presumed top 6 — Angelus, Keogh (is it just me or did he get nicked up again this weekend? Don't think he played in scrimmage #2) and McDermott — are indeed converted attackmen with more attackman-like physical traits I suppose but that's how the game is played now. Both teams in the title game played some high school attackmen at the midfield. One could very easily argue the best middies on each team are natural attackmen.

The issue was that you didn't want your ENTIRE midfield to be that type for reasons that I'd hope are obvious. But as 51 said we have a fairly ideal combo of size, speed, shooting, and skill on offense right now. There's nothing wrong with having a couple of Angelus types coming out of the box so long as you're limiting the need for them to get back in the hole and play defense. And guess what — if you run good offense then they won't need to race back to play D.

thought about throwing all of this up, glad you saved me the inclination.

it has infected division 1 lacrosse, fo sho. interchangable positions. i think it's a byproduct of coaches wanting to control sets. while the game has no doubt imo improved with the shot clock, it's also helped exacerbate this trend, for better or worse. whether it stunts fast break/unsettled efforts or not, it definitely has affected personnel in 6x6.
one additional issue if you want your att >middies chasing off at every opportunity on a change of possession, your ride suffers. if you have one.

[51percentcorn]

Echo 16 - it's one thing to have your mid-field be comprised of virtually all smaller/dodging attackmen at your midfield - remember at one point DeSimone was one of the bigger middies when Baskin/Keogh and Concannon were also on the lines - now 3 of your first 6 mid-fielders - assuming Grimes does stay there are 6'4". And then there's stretch shooting - in 2019 for example - who at the mid-field could stretch the defense? Zinn probably had the fastest shot from the mid-field (Degnon only played in 3 games) and he only took 28 shots (18% shooting too). Now with Grimes/Degnon and Peshko's heat - Epstein's placement as much as velocity - it opens up alot for wiggle worms like DeSimone/Angelus/Keogh - then if any of these new guys can add to the mix - the offense should produce. Not saying Prouty/Dunn and Callahan won't contribute but Narewski's health just elevated to the top of the chart along with finding the best goalie. If this team starts out with the ball more and takes care of it - and I can hear Chic now "as long as they don't care who gets the credit" - they will likely be successful.

[Sagittarius A*]

I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536

Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.

"Ryan Evans (who was one of the day’s standouts) made it 7-5 at the end of one."
Looks like HOB and Matt Kinear were seeing the same thing, both of them impressed enough to comment.
HOB has a very good eye.

"When John Grant, Jr., is warming up goalies pre-game, that’s a good sign both in net and on the offensive side of the ball."
I was very happy to hear this!
Warming up the goalie is a key job for the OC. After taking a round of shots from Junior, the shooters in the game don't look so tough.
I recall they used to have a third string player warm up the goalies the last few years of Benson's tenure.
I also recall how much our goalies struggled under the old regime.

[HopFan16]

I posted the IL fallball stuff from previous years. They're not usually terribly off. We don't know the 3rd attack spot, the lsm position after ferndandez, who is in goal and the 3rd d spot but those might not be won until march.

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... mond/58536

Kinnear adds some meat to the excellent posts a few of you dropped. The only thing that's maybe unsaid there is that we're back to converted attackmen on the midfield which has been a source of some "passionate debate" in the past.

"Ryan Evans (who was one of the day’s standouts) made it 7-5 at the end of one."
Looks like HOB and Matt Kinear were seeing the same thing, both of them impressed enough to comment.
HOB has a very good eye.

"When John Grant, Jr., is warming up goalies pre-game, that’s a good sign both in net and on the offensive side of the ball."
I was very happy to hear this!
Warming up the goalie is a key job for the OC. After taking a round of shots from Junior, the shooters in the game don't look so tough.
I recall they used to have a third string player warm up the goalies the last few years of Benson's tenure.
I also recall how much our goalies struggled under the old regime.

Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.

Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."

[Sagittarius A*]

Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.

Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."

OMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.
You don't want to see shots in the game that are harder or more accurate than you're seeing at the end of the warm-up.
Our goaltending wasn't great under Petro, but not having the right guy warming them up sure didn't help.
Goaltending 101.

[51percentcorn]

but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.

That is not what Scott was talking about - warming up a goalie is not rocket science - there is no exact right way - it's important but it doesn't take one of the greatest scorers of all time to do it. In fact, you could argue that Junior would be just average at warming up a goalie. Junior ranging around from 10-15 yards shooting all alone is almost never what he did. Hard to score one handed through the legs behind the back with five people draped all over you when warming up the goalie. He's 47 years old - his knees are shot - and he can't bring velocity like he once had - plus shot velocity was not his primary weapon. You play a top team and the first 6 guys are pinging high 80's into the 90's. I am sure he's a help to goalies with respect to following the ball from unexpected angles but this is not a critical component to Hopkins success.

[HopFan16]

Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.

Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."

OMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.
You don't want to see shots in the game that are harder or more accurate than you're seeing at the end of the warm-up.
Our goaltending wasn't great under Petro, but not having the right guy warming them up sure didn't help.
Goaltending 101.

I've read his book, I'm pretty sure the very brief two or three sentence blurb he wrote about goalie warm-ups in a 300 page book were focused on how a coach should warm up the goalies rather than a player. Nowhere did he say it needed to be a former player of John Grant Jr.'s caliber. PS as much of a legend as Bob Scott was, that book was written 50 years ago (at a time when teams had 3 goalies MAX—many only had 2) and there remains no fact-based evidence that in the modern game there is any correlation whatsoever between the 10-minute pregame goalie warmup and game performance. It's magical thinking and to say it misses the forest for the trees is a vast understatement.

BTW Benson was no slouch himself, the dude scored a million goals as a Blue Jay and knew how to shoot the ball. He used to warm up the goalies with a bright blue stick that my friends and I called "Blue Magic" because he seemed to score on our goalies at will with a variety of release points.

[Sagittarius A*]

Both Larry Quinn and Piggy got warmups from Joe Cowan.
At this level of play, every little detail is important.
There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. What seems unimportant to the casual fan, is often critical to success on the field.
There's no way in hell that a third string attackman would be warming up the goalie if Scott had still been the AD.
Perhaps a former goalie or two will weigh in here on the importance of the warmup.

[Chitown]

I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.

Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.

We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.

I have no other comments and nothing else to say.

[Sagittarius A*]

I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.

Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.

We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.

I have no other comments and nothing else to say.

Thank you!

[jhu06]

Your fixation on who warms up the goalie is truly one of the weirdest memes in FanLax/LaxPower history. Warming up the goalie is probably the least important thing a coordinator does. Are you aware that Junior warmed up the goalies last season? I watched it with my own eyes at Rutgers AKA the game Kirson was pulled for Marcille. Maybe Josh didn't get the memo that receiving warm-up shots from Junior was supposed to turn him into Larry Quinn during games. Goalies on other teams take warmups from people who don't have the shooting ability of Junior and they seem to do just fine in games. It's almost like...it doesn't matter and a good/bad goalie is good/bad regardless. It's a WARM-UP. I get that we'd all like to find a scapegoat for the subpar goalie play of recent years but that ain't it.

Here's a better line from the IL write-up that's maybe worth something: "Most of the goals were assisted, and the ball was humming throughout."

OMG. Read Bob Scott's book. The warm-up is critical. It's not going to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, but you've got to have the right guy doing it, the exact right way.
You don't want to see shots in the game that are harder or more accurate than you're seeing at the end of the warm-up.
Our goaltending wasn't great under Petro, but not having the right guy warming them up sure didn't help.
Goaltending 101.

This is a fantastic post and what makes this program so special and unique. Duke doesn't even have a thread, maryland is still trying to figure out what it's doing in the big ten, notre dame is trying to justify whatever is keeping their football team from national championship contention, north carolina who cares and it's months from the season and you guys are debating the goalie warm up process with book citations and experiences working with hall of famers. Amazing.

[DocBarrister]

I know in my heart that I should NOT venture into this topic, BUT I had 3 coaches at JHU (Coach Fewster, Chic & Scotty), all of whom are in the Hall of Fame. Another Coach, Ace Adams, got me my first and only coaching gig.

Here is what I learned: Most goalies need cat-like reflexes (if they start thinking too much, it can be disastrous), most goalies are "head-cases" (if they lose confidence, you are screwed) and need to be treated carefully, and warm-ups are done pursuant to a developed system and with precision: starting with slow outside bounce shots and working inward towards the Goalie. A player is NEVER given the job to warm-up a Goalie. Warming up a Goalie needs someone with experience. Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.

We always had good goalies, surrounded by good defensemen and good defensive middies.

I have no other comments and nothing else to say.

Thank you!

Doesn’t Coach Tillman, a former goalie himself, always personally warm up his starting goalie?

DocBarrister

[51percentcorn]

Both Larry Quinn and Piggy got warmups from Joe Cowan.

Chic or Scotty warmed up our Goalies. No one else.

Thank you!

He just directly contradicted your contention you nitwit and you're thanking him for it. I watched Piggy play for all 3 NC seasons and I never saw anybody but Chic but maybe it was Cowan with hair dye and those black cleats with the white trim.
Nobody is saying a good system required to warmup goalies is not important - it's clearly important. It's ridiculous, however, to attribute any direct success to Junior warming up the goalies. Velocity and his skills are not required - adherence to the program, the system and the goalie's needs/comfort are required. End of story.

[HopFan16]

It's equally ridiculous to suggest the reason our goalies have stunk is because Benson was warming them up wrong. I went to a lot of games in the last decade+ and Benson always warmed up the goalies himself. If he ever had a player to it, it was not the norm. Perhaps he was trying something new that day to get our goalies to do better than 40% because god knows warming them up the Bob Scott Way was not helping. If there was any sort of change to the warm-up routine it happened long after goalie play plummeted.

On another note: This puts the Tucker situation to bed. It was her decision to retire. Period. https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... ily-/58535

[51percentcorn]

Well '16 - it all could be a lie - Alanna might have written that piece from Philly.

One other point on this incredibly stupid goalie thing - somewhat confusing to me that IL's and HOB's rankings of the goalies from this past week-end - if you infer some things from IL's write up - would be Webb/Versfeld #1/#2 and Marcille/Kirson #3/#4 when the latter two should have much greater exposure to this unbelievable warm-up routine. And don't give me this silk purse/sow's ear argument - according to Sag A - Marcille was the sole reason for the better play in the BIG tournament.
Don't worry - I understand that fall results mean next to nothing.